metaXzero
Smash Champion
....No idea. But he looks important (08 I am).
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Brawl will have backwards progression (which is a bad thing)
- Thread starter Gimpyfish62
- Start date
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OH and Falcon, don't forget Falcon.
Oh, what about IC's, a couple pros used them!
Hey, I saw a bunch of Samus' in my time, I guess you should throw her in that list.
Yeah, that's right. I also had to face many jigglypuffs in my time too, and Mang0 + Pound 3.
So that's:
Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Peach, Falcon, IC's, Samus, and Jigglypuff.
Yeah, you guys are right, it's all the same stuff over and over again. I mean, let's lok at Brawl:
Snake, MK, GaW, D3...
Oh, what about IC's, a couple pros used them!
Hey, I saw a bunch of Samus' in my time, I guess you should throw her in that list.
Yeah, that's right. I also had to face many jigglypuffs in my time too, and Mang0 + Pound 3.
So that's:
Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Peach, Falcon, IC's, Samus, and Jigglypuff.
Yeah, you guys are right, it's all the same stuff over and over again. I mean, let's lok at Brawl:
Snake, MK, GaW, D3...
psykoplympton
Smash Ace
rob...
10charizards
10charizards
FishkeeperTimmay!
Smash Ace
Oh and wait, I've been facing Snake, MK, D3, Marth, Olimar, Falco, Wario, ROB and Lucario?
We're going to playing a set amount of match ups guys, just like the last game. Of course we're going to see some random matches that aren't expected, but seriously, 90% of your matches in hight level play are going to be those people, just like in Melee, where you had you 9-10 characters that you would face on a regular basis.
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
Actually, the last tourney I went to was weird. Over 40 people participated, and there were more Pikachus than MKs, and Pikachu was probably all around a more disliked opponent than Snake.
That was a singular incident however. I am not familiar with general trends enough to comment on them from any sort of personal experience.
That was a singular incident however. I am not familiar with general trends enough to comment on them from any sort of personal experience.
IrArby
Smash Ace
In Melee, the top 4 characters are for all intensive purposes almost equal. Skill is the deciding factor (don't forget to include mindgames/smart play as a skill). Peach and Falcon can have disadvantages and advantages depending on the matchup here though. Still, very good chance in very good hands.
The reason everyone sees so much Fox, Marth, Shiek, and Falco is because the VERY VERY best Pros used them since they were all so skillful they could exploit another Pro of equal status who used an even slightly weaker character. Unless your close to that skilled you never lost a match predominatly because of who you and your opponent played. If you're playing top 4, whatever matchup, you've got a good chance character wise at that level.
If you went to a Melee tournament before Brawl, you'd see a lot of Jiggs, Samus, Link (yes link) and many other characters played by very good smashers but they weren't The BEST Pros so even though they were very good, matchups mattered less to them than it did to the top Pros. It mattered more to them than to anyone and it still mattered less than what people now make it out to be.
Alas, most of what you see on youtube is Pro Matches by M2K, KDJ, PCChris, Ken, etc. So your getting a very very narrow skew of the competitive scene as a whole.
In short, don't judge Melee's viable characters only on videos by the most winning top pros. Theres a much bigger gap between characters and between tiers this time around.
The reason everyone sees so much Fox, Marth, Shiek, and Falco is because the VERY VERY best Pros used them since they were all so skillful they could exploit another Pro of equal status who used an even slightly weaker character. Unless your close to that skilled you never lost a match predominatly because of who you and your opponent played. If you're playing top 4, whatever matchup, you've got a good chance character wise at that level.
If you went to a Melee tournament before Brawl, you'd see a lot of Jiggs, Samus, Link (yes link) and many other characters played by very good smashers but they weren't The BEST Pros so even though they were very good, matchups mattered less to them than it did to the top Pros. It mattered more to them than to anyone and it still mattered less than what people now make it out to be.
Alas, most of what you see on youtube is Pro Matches by M2K, KDJ, PCChris, Ken, etc. So your getting a very very narrow skew of the competitive scene as a whole.
In short, don't judge Melee's viable characters only on videos by the most winning top pros. Theres a much bigger gap between characters and between tiers this time around.
psykoplympton
Smash Ace
i agree. like when bum came out of no where with DK and started outcamping m2k.
Blad01
Smash Lord
I feel the opposite.
At first look, Brawl defense game looked SO broken.... Air-dodge when you want, useful spotdodges, defensive spacing (camp...) encouraged.
But.... Not anymore. Now, people who are playing me are pretty scary to air dodge when they are in the airs, because i catch them right after (with by example Uair on them, and then Bair [Falco], or empty SH towards them, double-jump and punish.
Now they now that. What do they try ?
- To kick my a** while i'm trying to follow them (Lucario's Dair by example). That works pretty much. But then i juste wait and punish, or attack by the side, or attack with a projectile.
- To go left/right. That can work, but is also very predictable. Projectiles, Bair work here.
That's just the example of Airdodge, but that works with a lot of things like Spot-Dodge + DSmash (easy to punish... Charged Smash by example), Shieldgrab (more difficult to punish, but possible, by mindgames notably*),... etc.
The ONLY thing i fear in Brawl's defensive mechanic is Footstool jump... When you try to gimp someone, then he jumps over your head and kill you, that's.... freacking awful.
But well, that also can be used for combos so... (And here, that's an offensive progression).
I strongly believe that Brawl won't have a backward progression. But i'm convinced that reading the opponent, using mindgames, and having good punish reflexs will be absolutly necessary.
*Not sure if this word exists in English XD
At first look, Brawl defense game looked SO broken.... Air-dodge when you want, useful spotdodges, defensive spacing (camp...) encouraged.
But.... Not anymore. Now, people who are playing me are pretty scary to air dodge when they are in the airs, because i catch them right after (with by example Uair on them, and then Bair [Falco], or empty SH towards them, double-jump and punish.
Now they now that. What do they try ?
- To kick my a** while i'm trying to follow them (Lucario's Dair by example). That works pretty much. But then i juste wait and punish, or attack by the side, or attack with a projectile.
- To go left/right. That can work, but is also very predictable. Projectiles, Bair work here.
That's just the example of Airdodge, but that works with a lot of things like Spot-Dodge + DSmash (easy to punish... Charged Smash by example), Shieldgrab (more difficult to punish, but possible, by mindgames notably*),... etc.
The ONLY thing i fear in Brawl's defensive mechanic is Footstool jump... When you try to gimp someone, then he jumps over your head and kill you, that's.... freacking awful.
But well, that also can be used for combos so... (And here, that's an offensive progression).
I strongly believe that Brawl won't have a backward progression. But i'm convinced that reading the opponent, using mindgames, and having good punish reflexs will be absolutly necessary.
*Not sure if this word exists in English XD
impressive bump
thats enough from this one
*bowser fsmash*
thats enough from this one
*bowser fsmash*
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