Brawl+ Official Codeset Gold Discussion

[angelbless]

Can I ask a small questio , without getting someone to hit me? .

what are the other .pac files for the stages that are introduced in the SD pack. Last time was jungle, replacing DXSHRINE right?. and Now?

Why am I asking this ? its because I want to see now, how to fuse it with Dan and PW`s Stage codes.

Thxs in advance.

 

[VanillaWaffle]

well tonight was my first time playing this new set, and this is also my first time posting comments regarding these b+ sets. I've gone to many b+ tourneys and regularly play b+ with the legion, and ive gotten used to you developers making some really stupid changes and ive kept my silence up until this point.

This change in the boundaries of stages is a complete and utter abomination. first off, i dont even understand why this change was ever implemented, i was told that the reason for it was because people were complaining that matches lasted too long. i fail to understand this, ive yet to see anyone run the clock in b+. even if matches were too long, there are many better options to fixing this rather than shrinking the borders of every stage. increasing the power of kill moves, decreases the distance of recovery moves, or even dropping stock count back down to 3. instead you get a game breaking change.

until this change is gone, i will NO LONGER play in any brawl + events. what once was my favorite version of brawl, is now just a sad joke. good day gentlemen.

 

[FrozenHobo]

well tonight was my first time playing this new set, and this is also my first time posting comments regarding these b+ sets.

until this change is gone, i will NO LONGER play in any brawl + events. what once was my favorite version of brawl, is now just a sad joke. good day gentlemen.

k. see ya.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I don't know FroHo, he must be a pro or something if he can figure so much out from the first time he tried the set.

 

[angelbless]

Can I ask a small questio , without getting someone to hit me? .

what are the other .pac files for the stages that are introduced in the SD pack. Last time was jungle, replacing DXSHRINE right?. and Now?

Why am I asking this ? its because I want to see now, how to fuse it with Dan and PW`s Stage codes.

Thxs in advance.

Ok Going to answer myself, and see if somebody can tell me if what I have seen from the stages and the SSS is correct.

- Corneria has the "before entering Corneria" Texture
- Ice Summit is frozen
- Castle Siegeis frozen
- SSE Jungle plays with Battlefield music (thats for the .rel version right?)
- Luigis Mansion has no vertical woods.
- Lylat Cruise has a different texture.
- Big Blue has a differenttexture (Flood city if Im not wrong)
- Ruble Falls + is selectable
- SSE Jungle is selectable
- Temple "short version" is selectable
- WWR is selectable .. but has the bag on it :S
- Hannenbow is back
- Spear Pillar is no longer frozen (why is that? )

is these correct? did I miss something about the stages?

mmm one little bug I had is, when I entered My Music, I still got Flat Zone image on the First SSS, but after entering there to change the music, I wasnt able to go back... The game didnt freeze, but couldnt return either.

About the character, not going into detail, but in the pf/fighter/Ganon (I think thats the name), i saw a "Ganon_with_Sword.pac", but couldnt see any chages in the game. wht is this pac used for?

Anyway thxs for answering

 

[Bandit]

k. see ya.

Waffle is not alone in his feelings towards the boundary changes. They are absolutely horrible and have changed the game drastically.

@MattNumbers

He's placed very well in most of the Brawl+ events thrown by JCaesar. He's no stranger to B+. Now, if I saw you play in a tournament... oh wait... I won't.

 

[wowoduend]

I don't know FroHo, he must be a pro or something if he can figure so much out from the first time he tried the set.

*sniffs*
i smell someone trollin itt.....mmmm

jk

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Even though i love short matches. the boundry changes were a bit big for being thrown in at the last minute.
all the characters have been raised and built to be balanced around the old boundries. now chaning that at the last minute just isn't right and could throw things off a lot more than you'd expect

 

[FrozenHobo]

Waffle is not alone in his feelings towards the boundary changes. They are absolutely horrible and have changed the game drastically.

@MattNumbers

He's placed very well in most of the Brawl+ events thrown by JCaesar. He's no stranger to B+. Now, if I saw you play in a tournament... oh wait... I won't.

just pointing out he;s never posted before and outside of your local group nobody's heard of him. its hard to take random people posting for the first time seriously when they hate on things with no other argument besides "its a complete and utter abomination."

people come in here all the time complaining about some aspect of B+ and how they'll "never play it again," so why should i cry for another one?

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

no other argument besides "its a complete and utter abomination."

i dont know if he was thinking what im thinking but, i dont think you should change the environment they were built to be balanced in :\
i think.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i honestly don't care what happens to the boundaries; its not my job to care. i'm just not going to acknowledge a guy who randomly comes in, says he hates the changes, and then refuses to play the game again. its like a person i've never seen before walking up to me on the street and telling me that he's going to quit his job. i've never seen you before and i don't care about you or your job.

 

[MyLifeIsAnRPG]

Because Flat Zone = Wifi Waiting Room

and 75M is SSE jungle now.

Its not a cosmetic error. Its showing you what stage is what now. :V

No it's not, that's the problem. Yes, on the normal stage screen if I select Wi-Fi waiting room, I go to the Wi-Fi wiaitng room and if I select SSE Jungle I go to the SSE jungle.

However, if I go to the "other stages" screen and choose Wifi Waiting Room I get Flat Zone, and if I choose SSE Jungle I get 75m.

So I'm fairly certain the "other stages" icons should be Flat Zone and 75M no?

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

i honestly don't care what happens to the boundaries; its not my job to care. i'm just not goign to acknowledge a guy who randomly comes in, says he hates the changes, and then refuses to play the game again. its like a guy walking up to you ont eh street that you've never seen before telling you that he's going to quit his job. i've never seen you before and i don't care about you or your job.

i know what you mean xD
we'll see what the boundries do to gameplay, hopefully, at most, it might help make heavies better... they've always been a bit below the faster characters.

 

[FrozenHobo]

No it's not, that's the problem. Yes, on the normal stage screen if I select Wi-Fi waiting room, I go to the Wi-Fi wiaitng room and if I select SSE Jungle I go to the SSE jungle.

However, if I go to the "other stages" screen and choose Wifi Waiting Room I get Flat Zone, and if I choose SSE Jungle I get 75m.

So I'm fairly certain the "other stages" icons should be Flat Zone and 75M no?

thats not how th common5 works. there is one set of images on the file. to add more stages we have to use the icons for pre-existing stages. this means that because 75m and FZ2 are being used for Jungle and WWR, we have to use their icon images (it would be the same situation with any other stage). The stages on the second page are the regular, stupid versions. however, their icon images are being used for WWR/Jungle, so its impossible for them to have their own, separate images.

 

[Mattnumbers]

@MattNumbers

He's placed very well in most of the Brawl+ events thrown by JCaesar. He's no stranger to B+. Now, if I saw you play in a tournament... oh wait... I won't.

And? That has no bearing on whether he's played the set more than once. I don't care who you are, you can't properly reach such a harsh conclusion from trying something once unless you actually post the theory behind it. He's arguing on the basis of experience without actually having said experience.

And I'm sorry that I'm having trouble getting B+ tournaments started in Alaska

 

[Perfect Chaos]

So, I installed the new Brawl+ but I have one small cosmetic error. On the other stages screen, the classic donkey cong stage is represented with a SSE Jungle and Flat Zone is represented with a Wi-Fi Waiting Room Icon. Everything else works ok. Any idea what the problem is?

FrozenHobo has answered it, so I'm just going to point out how people NEED TO AT LEAST READ A COUPLE OF PAGES BACK BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS... This question of yours has already been answered prior to your post...multiple times, with the latest being within 20 posts before yours...

And now to the main event of this post...

MAJOR GLITCH ALERT
This is a character specific glitch that is caused by a code; the anti-ledge/water stalling code to be exact.
During a match at a local smashfest in my area on the 1st, this was discovered and was brought to my attention, which I immediate reasoned what the source was. After going home to test to see if my theory was correct, it turns out that it was indeed correct.
Anyway, without further ado: if Nana grabs the ledge 4 times without landing or getting hit (doesn't matter how many times the main one grabs it), then immediately afterwards, if you use Belay (up-b), Popo would throw Nana at the ledge, and the anti-planking code kicks in and forces Nana to get up before pulling Popo up. When this happens, Popo will drift down slowly to his death (with the rope still attached to the two), while in the meantime (until Popo dies), you have control over Nana as if it was Popo. In the case that there's ground below the ledge for Popo to land on (such as on Corneria fin, etc.), control will shift back to Popo as soon as he lands.
This glitch is easily recreated, so feel free to see for yourself.

But yeah...it looks like this code is going to need (another) revision...

 

[angelbless]

Ok Going to answer myself, and see if somebody can tell me if what I have seen from the stages and the SSS is correct.

- Corneria has the "before entering Corneria" Texture
- Ice Summit is frozen
- Castle Siegeis frozen
- SSE Jungle plays with Battlefield music (thats for the .rel version right?)
- Luigis Mansion has no vertical woods.
- Lylat Cruise has a different texture.
- Big Blue has a differenttexture (Flood city if Im not wrong)
- Ruble Falls + is selectable
- SSE Jungle is selectable
- Temple "short version" is selectable
- WWR is selectable .. but has the bag on it :S
- Hannenbow is back
- Spear Pillar is no longer frozen (why is that? )

is these correct? did I miss something about the stages?

mmm one little bug I had is, when I entered My Music, I still got Flat Zone image on the First SSS, but after entering there to change the music, I wasnt able to go back... The game didnt freeze, but couldnt return either.

About the character, not going into detail, but in the pf/fighter/Ganon (I think thats the name), i saw a "Ganon_with_Sword.pac", but couldnt see any chages in the game. wht is this pac used for?

Anyway thxs for answering

Someone?? PC?

 

[Bandit]

just pointing out he;s never posted before and outside of your local group nobody's heard of him. its hard to take random people posting for the first time seriously when they hate on things with no other argument besides "its a complete and utter abomination."

people come in here all the time complaining about some aspect of B+ and how they'll "never play it again," so why should i cry for another one?

Correction, you have never heard of him.

The BackRoom (you know the people who want feedback) knows who he is. You, however, are not important. Stop acting like you actually have something to do with this game outside of the stages.

 

[VanillaWaffle]

this time im only posting because bandit is awesome. last post here

@ Frozenhobo - you claim its not your job to care about the state of this game? also you dont care about these "random" players who are all quitting. when developing a game that is attempting to be competitive and "proffesional", generally its a good idea to care about your target audience. in a game with an already dwindling population, id assume you want to keep the players you already have, no chase them away with your lack of caring and rude attitude.

@ mattnumbers - u dont need to be a pro to notice obvious game breaking flaws.

@ bandit - thanks for reinforcing my point, but i feel like our words are wasted on the deaf here. they are determined to run this game into the ground. its clear they are making it for themselves now, and not for a competitive tourney scene, seeing as all these developers dont even play in tourneys.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Whats the problem with the new boundaries? It speeds up games and gives some characters a chance to actually kill.

 

[Plum]

Waffle, it was basically a universal complaint that matches were going too long. Brawl+ is supposed to be fast after all. Characters were still living to vBrawl percents because almost every character could no longer combo into kill moves at their kill percents.

As you said, there are MANY different, and more natural ways to remedy this; stronger kill moves, more hitstun, revamping the physics, Up B's gain less distance, etc. The reason that we went with reduced boundaries is because Veril wanted character changes to be more or less completely done by this point, and those other options would have unforeseen effects on how the game needs to be balanced that you mine as well be starting over at square one. The smaller boundaries were basically the only way to do it without changing how the characters themselves played in any major way.

Was it the best way? No. Was it the best way given the situation? Debatable, but it's still the action that was taken.

 

[MK26]

Correction, you have never heard of him.

The BackRoom (you know the people who want feedback) knows who he is. You, however, are not important. Stop acting like you actually have something to do with this game outside of the stages.

EDIT: 10that vv

 

[FrozenHobo]

Correction, you have never heard of him.

The BackRoom (you know the people who want feedback) knows who he is. You, however, are not important. Stop acting like you actually have something to do with this game outside of the stages.

hens why its not my problem and why i shouldn't give a rats *** what you or he thinks.

@ Frozenhobo - you claim its not your job to care about the state of this game? also you dont care about these "random" players who are all quitting. when developing a game that is attempting to be competitive and "proffesional", generally its a good idea to care about your target audience. in a game with an already dwindling population, id assume you want to keep the players you already have, no chase them away with your lack of caring and rude attitude.

allow me to explain the situation as i see it:

this is a mod of a pre-existing game. there is no money to be made and no bottom line to be met. there is no future of a major organization and no threat that i will not be able to pay the rent. any work done to this game is purely for entertainment purposes. if someone does not enjoy the game, thats there problem and they can revel in it as much as they want. the point being, you people are treating this thing like its a huge nintendo-run product and should be designed to cater to everyone. in reality, this is a mod with a multitude of different inputs and different opinions. at the end of the day, someone is going to be pissed, but you have to get past that and remember that its all for fun. if you want me to actually take an interest in the community or the opinions of every single random person, then feel free to pay me. until then, this is a hobby, and i see no reason to come running every time someone new has a complaint.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

The reason that we went with reduced boundaries is because Veril wanted character changes to be more or less completely done by this point

What is the rush? I don't understand this attitude.

I got this same exact response when I said that there should be a gravity overhaul to make the game faster and the answer I got wasn't because it would hurt the game, in fact after playing project M you can see that it HELPS the game out a ton, but the answer I got was because it would "take too long". What kind of mentality is that? These are community made projects, no one is getting paid, and no rich dude in a suit is forcing anyone to finish things before a certain point. So why was there this sudden need to finish this as soon as possible?

I understand that you guys want a stable set for balancing purposes, but the truth of the matter is, you guys are going to lose ground to project M. I'm sorry to say that. But it's the truth, you have people salivating just to try it, and most of the people who have are completely blown away by the fast pacedness of it. It's not even the tech skill, its just the overall speed of the game. If you guys want to even come close to competing with project M, hell, melee's intense gameplay you should really look into making the game faster paced. And I think you guys understood that, you guys got rid of many sakurai angles (per my suggestion!) and the boundary change was some sort of shortcut to accomplish that, but I can see why it would upset some people- the kills you get now feel artificial and very unsatisfying as opposed to how they were before.

But the problem is that the boundary change doesn't make the game faster paced.. it makes it matches end sooner. Those are two very different things.

 

[VanillaWaffle]

But the problem is that the boundary change doesn't make the game faster paced.. it makes it matches end sooner. Those are two very different things.

<applause> this statement makes a lot of sense.

@ plum - by making the boundaries smaller you are giving yourself more work, now you will have to adjust nearly every move because you have moves like wolf's forward air killing at 60%, char's up b killing at 70%, etc. taking shortcuts just makes more work down the road.

@ hobo - correct me if im wrong, but isnt this a discussion thread? all ive seen you do is tell me that my points dont matter. thats not much of a discussion.

 

[Rikana]

What is the rush? I don't understand this attitude.

I got this same exact response when I said that there should be a gravity overhaul to make the game faster and the answer I got wasn't because it would hurt the game, in fact after playing project M you can see that it HELPS the game out a ton, but the answer I got was because it would "take too long". What kind of mentality is that? These are community made projects, no one is getting paid, and no rich dude in a suit is forcing anyone to finish things before a certain point. So why was there this sudden need to finish this as soon as possible?

I understand that you guys want a stable set for balancing purposes, but the truth of the matter is, you guys are going to lose ground to project M. I'm sorry to say that. But it's the truth, you have people salivating just to try it, and most of the people who have are completely blown away by the fast pacedness of it. It's not even the tech skill, its just the overall speed of the game. If you guys want to even come close to competing with project M, hell, melee's intense gameplay you should really look into making the game faster paced. And I think you guys understood that, you guys got rid of many sakurai angles (per my suggestion!) and the boundary change was some sort of shortcut to accomplish that, but I can see why it would upset some people- the kills you get now feel artificial and very unsatisfying as opposed to how they were before.

But the problem is that the boundary change doesn't make the game faster paced.. it makes it matches end sooner. Those are two very different things.

lol that's actually exactly what I thought too. I remember a staff member saying they don't want to make dramatic changes since its nearing Gold but the boundary changes is already very dramatic. Even more than character changes. Regardless, I don't take Brawl+ seriously so I just go along with whatever as I continue to play Melee/64 and wait for Project M.

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

What is the rush? I don't understand this attitude.

I got this same exact response when I said that there should be a gravity overhaul to make the game faster and the answer I got wasn't because it would hurt the game, in fact after playing project M you can see that it HELPS the game out a ton, but the answer I got was because it would "take too long". What kind of mentality is that? These are community made projects, no one is getting paid, and no rich dude in a suit is forcing anyone to finish things before a certain point. So why was there this sudden need to finish this as soon as possible?

I understand that you guys want a stable set for balancing purposes, but the truth of the matter is, you guys are going to lose ground to project M. I'm sorry to say that. But it's the truth, you have people salivating just to try it, and most of the people who have are completely blown away by the fast pacedness of it. It's not even the tech skill, its just the overall speed of the game. If you guys want to even come close to competing with project M, hell, melee's intense gameplay you should really look into making the game faster paced. And I think you guys understood that, you guys got rid of many sakurai angles (per my suggestion!) and the boundary change was some sort of shortcut to accomplish that, but I can see why it would upset some people- the kills you get now feel artificial and very unsatisfying as opposed to how they were before.

But the problem is that the boundary change doesn't make the game faster paced.. it makes it matches end sooner. Those are two very different things.

Agreed! While I'm not going to abandon Brawl+, you (Brawl+ staff) should take everything he just said very seriously. I think that sums up what a lot of people are feeling like right now.

 

[GHNeko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREBHRAlHeo

Must the Japanese try to one up us?

 

[FrozenHobo]

thats actually pretty interesting... the stage is using the background of frigate orpheon, but with a SSE platform for the actual fighting area.

do you have a link?

 

[GHNeko]

It came with the Japanese version of 7.0.2. :V

 

[FrozenHobo]

is that the only stage difference, or are there others?

 

[GHNeko]

They replaced GHZ with Tabooo Destination

and Spear Pillar with the SSE version of WarioWare

 

[Thunderhorse+]

As you said, there are MANY different, and more natural ways to remedy this; stronger kill moves, more hitstun, revamping the physics, Up B's gain less distance, etc. The reason that we went with reduced boundaries is because Veril wanted character changes to be more or less completely done by this point, and those other options would have unforeseen effects on how the game needs to be balanced that you mine as well be starting over at square one. The smaller boundaries were basically the only way to do it without changing how the characters themselves played in any major way.

Was it the best way? No. Was it the best way given the situation? Debatable, but it's still the action that was taken.

As just a player of the game wanting B+ to be as fun as possible, these changes that I highlighted in particular are ones that I really wanted to see. Even when jiang was proposing a gravity overhaul after his foray into heavy Brawl+, I was in full support of that idea (namely because I tried it myself and it was super fun). But as a member of the WBR, I understand that it would take alot of work to re-tweak the cast (although I think the effort would be well worth it). Unfortunately when I discussed this matter with Cape awhile back, he said something like that would never be possible, because it removes the 'Brawl' from 'Brawl+'.

I agree that this wasn't the most elegant way to go about it, and if I had it my way it wouldn't be an issue, but given the circumstances that we're in now, it was the most logical solution (if not the best) that could happen.

Regardless, Waffle has definitely proved his credentials in the Brawl+ scene, having, you know, entered in real tournaments before. If he's making a concern that is shared by a number of other people, both well known and not (he's hardly the first one to complain about this), then I think we should be taking it very seriously, even if we may not be able to do anything about it in the near future.

FroHo, I say this with utmost respect, but I think you'd do well to remember the position you hold before you start running your mouth off like that in public. As a part of the WBR, you're expected to be held to a higher standard than your average run of the mill poster simply by virtue of being a part of hacking leadership. Your recent posts as of late don't seem to reflect the professionalism I'd hope the WBR to aspire to. Even if you don't feel like who you're arguing with knows what they're talking about (which doesn't happen to be the case here, but I digress), you can make your argument in a more civilized manner and take the high road.

To relate it to the current argument at hand, yes you shouldn't come running at everyone's back and call the moment a single, isolated mistake is pointed out, but this is hardly an isolated incident (as mentioned before this is far from the first time I've heard this complaint), perhaps that is a good sign that a red flag should be raised?

As an aside: I <3 Jiang and everything he stands for.

 

[Shadic]

FroHo, I say this with as the utmost respect, but I think you'd do well to remember the position you hold before you start running your mouth off like that in public. As a part of the WBR, you're expected to be held to a higher standard than your average run of the mill poster simply by virtue of being a part of hacking leadership. Your recent posts as of late don't seem to reflect the professionalism I'd hope the WBR to aspire to. Even if you don't feel like who you're arguing with knows what they're talking about (which doesn't happen to be the case here, but I digress), you can make your argument in a more civilized manner and take the high road.

FroHo has been like this forever. I've clashed heads with him over the issue of being a prick while repping the WBR before. It's a attitude problem that does indeed reflect poorly on the backroom, as you have said.


That aside, I really appreciate basically all of your posts, TH. You're very civil and seem to take all player feedback quite seriously. You show the professionalism that needs to be seen universally in everybody with a purple name.

 

[MK26]

FroHo has been like this forever. I've clashed heads with him over the issue of being a prick while repping the WBR before. It's a attitude problem that does indeed reflect poorly on the backroom, as you have said.

naw, he just doesnt like putting up with bull****

then again, he does need to :rage: less

 

[Thunderhorse+]

naw, he just doesnt like putting up with bull****

We all have to put up with bull****, and I certainly don't imagine anyone else likes putting up with it whenever it may occur either. He is certainly not an isolated case in that regard. It doesn't give him the right to act in that manner regarding player feedback.

Everyone else don't have this magical resistance to bull**** that he lacks. If we can do it, I know he can too.

 

[FrozenHobo]

They replaced GHZ with Tabooo Destination

and Spear Pillar with the SSE version of WarioWare

man, they have good taste when it comes to stages.

edit:

in response to TH, i'm going to use bandit's own words to help me out here:

i don't do anything in the wbr. sure, i make the occasional stage, but in the long run, unless its specifically pointed out nobody notices. that being said, if i "run my mouth" and rage in practically every one of my posts, then what does it matter? nothing i do or say directly impacts the project outside of voting on changes (note: i voted for link's new fair). my level of professionalism pales in comparison to the actions taken by rest of the wbr with regards to game changes. i may get angry and blow up at a person, but its you guys who actually make the changes that people don't like.

its true, i can be nicer and more helpful, but i'll just point you to my sig for my response.

 

[SiD]

@ hobo - correct me if im wrong, but isnt this a discussion thread? all ive seen you do is tell me that my points dont matter. thats not much of a discussion.

Look at it from his point of view though, you didn't come in trying to discuss anything, your first post was kinda childish, exclaiming you aren't going to play anymore until something is changed. Regardless whether you're right or wrong about the change, that was a counterproductive way of talking about it.

 

[Shadic]

naw, he just doesnt like putting up with bull****
then again, he does need to :rage: less

Everybody puts up with bull****. Whether they're developing things or not. I still get stuff on Geno despite him being on hiatus until a model is imported, some of it's good, (Dakaggo, if you ever read this, I promise I'll respond when I get a chance!) but a lot of it is friggin' dumb. I don't 'roid rage every time I have to deal with somebody, however.

Not acting like a pissy 14 year old girl is something everybody should know how to do, but it's considerably more vital for somebody who is supposed to represent a developing group. Why do you think marcan from Twiizers stepped down after he attacked Waninkoko over USB Loading?

 

[FrozenHobo]

Why do you think marcan from Twiizers stepped down after he attacked Waninkoko over USB Loading?

who did what now?