Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Magus420]

Wolf's shine hits on frame 7 I believe.

I've always thought that Luigi should be getting more hitstun done to him. I don't want him to be easily combod, I just comboing him to be a bit more feasible. He could be like Peach or Wario in terms of resilience to combos.

What statistically could a noticeable difference be between Peach and Luigi as far as combo/string-ability? They both have 3 frame n-airs and are floaty. Luigi's hitstun division constant is at the known minimum so that wouldn't be it.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

The ending speed of the animation?

 

[Revven]

falco's back throw is broken. "doneskies combo"
falco:
bthrow>your doneskies as falco rides and/or teabags you>dair/suicide

im not sure who it works on, or what set was used, but it worked on marth.

I just want to tear my hair out at this because we cannot do anything about it and we already know about it. We will fix it when we get a throw mod, it only needed to be brought up once (which Silven already had by linking to the video of Falco vs Falco) it's OBVIOUSLY because his throw is stupid and deals no hitstun at all like Ganon's Up B. It will get fixed, it cannot be done right now however. We know about it, all of us do. Plus, it happens VERY rarely.

 

[kupo15]

obviously something not broken...a momentum-based jump (ie if you get hit to the left your jump is up and left, you get spiked you jump straight up) with a limited number of invincibility frames (perhaps 2/3 to 1/2 of the height of the jump) and a large amount of immobility afterward (ending somewhere between slightly past the apex of the jump and almost touching the ground)
A fastfaller, having a shorter techjump due to having higher gravities, would be close to the apex of his techjump when its invincibility ends, as well as being close to teh ground when the immobility ends. A floaty, on the other hand, would move at less steep of a curve, and would be able to move at a higher point, even though both characters would have the same frame length of the jump

As close an approximation I'm going to get...try to envision the slants as curves, not straught lines...the apex would be in the middle of the underscores...
A = ff'er, B = floaty
Red = invincible, White = vulnerable

A
    __
   /  [COLOR="red"]\[/COLOR]
  /    [COLOR="red"]\[/COLOR]
 /     [COLOR="red"] \
         \[/COLOR]

B
  ____
 /    \
/   [COLOR="Red"]   \
        \
         \
          \[/COLOR]

I have no clue as to the ratio of invincible to immobile frames, but it shoul be at a level where it's very difficult to punish a techjump if you do not predict it, but fairly easy to punish if you do...in other words, not bad, but not broken. Maybe a 1/1 or 2/3 ratio would work, but idk

Problem. Not only does the straight up tech not exist, but you would still be able to aerial in invincibility. There is no way anyone would ever tech in place or tech roll when you have a tech that is hard to punish. Don't add this

 

[JCaesar]

What statistically could a noticeable difference be between Peach and Luigi as far as combo/string-ability? They both have 3 frame n-airs and are floaty. Luigi's hitstun division constant is at the known minimum so that wouldn't be it.

Doesn't Luigi's nair have a lot better priority than Peach's on the bottom, thus making it better at breaking combos? That's what it's always felt like anyways. Peach has always felt easier to combo than Luigi.

 

[slikvik]

What statistically could a noticeable difference be between Peach and Luigi as far as combo/string-ability? They both have 3 frame n-airs and are floaty. Luigi's hitstun division constant is at the known minimum so that wouldn't be it.

Their second jumps

 

[Plum]

I wish there was a way to see the hitboxes/hurtboxes of moves in Brawl like in Melee...

For all we know Luigi's Nair just has a more favorable hitbox than Peach's, such as leaving his hurtbox less open or something. Considering how aerial priority works (and that they are hitting on the same frame), that would allow it to go through a wider range of opposing moves right?

Seeing as how they are both floaty characters, Luigi has the highest hitstun division constant which means he isn't going to be in less hitstun, and their Nair's are both frame 3 I would assume it has to be the priority.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Now ppl are requesting tech jumping...*sigh*. Its the worst idea EVER it would practically mean tech chasing isnt a viable strategy anymore. *leaves once more*

 

[VietGeek]

Now ppl are requesting tech jumping...*sigh*. Its the worst idea EVER it would practically mean tech chasing isnt a viable strategy anymore. *leaves once more*

You're beginning to bother me. Brawl+ is in beta. So to speak, it's still in "developmental" stages. Ideas will be tossed around, good or not. Good ideas will be tested, possibly implemented, bad ideas will be dismissed. That is how all projects work. This is a community project, it will represent the whim of the community.

Whatever becomes of this project is in the hands of the community. So as long as they are satisfied with the end-product, all is well. You are not part of this community as you've said yourself. How you feel about this project is irrelevant.

I don't support tech jumping

 

[Sterowent]

well, i wouldn't leave because of the simple (and often constructive) act of Suggestion.

it's more having faith in our community and the many 'smash analysts' (hah, how's that?) rather than those uninformed and their fatality-destined propositions. (edited...not too bad)

(note: this comment isn't pertaining to any tech specifically, just the decision process)

as for tech jumping, i was admittedly a fan before. always a fan of techniques (advocate here)

but, as has been pointed out, there are already many options for techs. and, since the core of tech chasing lies in prediction, any added options will make it less viable. that's simply how it is.

besides, it's a defensive option anyway. more offensive techniques, if you will!

more motion options, i say! more options that add to the Medium of play! movement and techniques that enable more of the special conditions in place (like WDing did for standing position, cutting out the 'dash' middleman effectively adding many other attacks to the approach game).

what's that? "Put up or shut up?" true enough

*endpost*

 

[Deleted member]

Problem. Not only does the straight up tech not exist, but you would still be able to aerial in invincibility. There is no way anyone would ever tech in place or tech roll when you have a tech that is hard to punish. Don't add this

How about instead of discussing how something that doesn't exist yet is broken, you discuss how to make it not broken.

Here's how I originally thought it would work:
You tech and press jump (or up if you have TJ on).

You go up in the air to about the height of a SH with way less invincibility frames than a techroll, only about half the distance you travel up has invincibility frames. (You can't move yet, at this point)


You can do other moves after you reach the apex of the jump, and start going down.

*Maybe having a small amount of aerial mobility on the way up.

*Maybe removing the second after you techjump, so it becomes the worst option when you hit the ground with a lot of momentum (techjump > go offstage > die).

"*" means I really haven't thought it through.
If you need clarification on something, just ask.
Try, instead of saying "no way that's broken" saying "If you change [this] it wouldn't be broken".
Also, I would considered this second lowest priority to Brawl+ (the lowest being fixing the items, like the timer, that aren't working right).

 

[stingers]

If you can aerial right away

There should be no invuln frames.

 

[Deleted member]

You can do other moves after you reach the apex of the jump, and start going down.

If you can aerial right away

There should be no invuln frames.

You can't aerial right away, you need to reach the apex of the jump first.

 

[Deleted member]

Techjumping sounds cool; but maybe let's make it a little more tricky to perform than, say, a normal tech. Perhaps make the tech-jump window incredibly small, or maybe make it require multiple button presses (not just the standard L or R... **** you weirdos who use L or R to jump rofl)

 

[Dark Sonic]

If you can aerial right away

There should be no invuln frames.

That would also mean that you could airdodge right away <_<.

The best option for tech jumping is to have a small amount of invincibility (like 1/3-1/2 of the way up) and be immobile until you decend like tnemrot said. I'd also propose that the techjump can only be done as in the direction that you were traveling before the tech (if you were going straight down you can't tech jump) to act sort of like a backwards shorthop with a little momentum carried over from the last attack. Also the tech animation itself (before actually going anywhere) be made a little longer than half of what a normal tech would be like (the goal is to make you go airborne and have invincibility at about the same point where a normal tech would've simply ended).

With that I think we'd have a workable tech jump. Whether or not it should be included in the first place is an entirely different matter though <_<.

 

[stingers]

i still dont think techjumping is a good idea, completely removes techchasing from the game and really, when you can techjump what incentive is there to techroll?

seems like a pointless addition.

 

[Dark Sonic]

People exaggreate how good tech jumping would be. Tech jumping would have less invincibility and just as much lag as techrolling (or at least that's the only way to make it balanced imo), so the only advantage would be being in the air at the end instead of on the ground.


Though, I think there are more than enough options for when you hit the ground atm. It's just that I hate to see people blow things out of proportion like that. ANY tech can be balanced, some are simply not worth the time and effort (not that it can't be done).

 

[Deleted member]

If you implement my suggestions, making techjumping hard, you would be risking a possible tech jump for nothing at all. If I hit you and you try to tech jump but fail, the game should simply register that as a failed tech jump and not a normal tech, making you flop on the ground.

This makes the risk/reward factor of the techjump to be pretty awesome, actually.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

No offense, but making techjumping trickier to perform sounds like a terrible way to balance it. Teching should feel natural IMO.

 

[Deleted member]

You're totally right. We should tell Capcom to make parrying in Street Fighter feel totally natural~!!!11

 

[stingers]

Making something difficult to do does not equal balance.

 

[BananaTrooper]

Brawl+ is so fail lmaooo

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

You're totally right. We should tell Capcom to make parrying in Street Fighter feel totally natural~!!!11

Wow. Parrying in SF != Teching in SSB.

 

[BananaTrooper]

Wow. Parrying in SF != Teching in SSB.

...holy ****.

 

[Deleted member]

I must say, you are quite the master of empty statements.

Why aren't they comparable? Parrying was added for more depth, but if parrying was easy to pull off 100% of the time (my rate of teching in SSBB is 100% accuracy, yours should be too), the game would be a turtle fest.

Techjumping sounds cool. However, adding another EIGHT options for the person being tech-chased is a little ridiculous. But not if techjumping is difficult to perform, LIKE PARRYING.

 

[Roxas215]

Techjumping is a stupid idea and further proves the point that the hackers are getting way too full of themselves and adding stuff simply cause they have the power too and not because it's needed. Stuff like this is the reason people bash brawl+ The fact that their is more discussion about adding techjumpimg and not removing random footstools is beyond dumb.(I know adding techjumping is not definitive at this time but still the idea that it's even being considered is crazy.)

 

[Revven]

Techjumping is a stupid idea and further proves the point that the hackers are getting way too full of themselves and adding stuff simply cause they have the power too and not because it's needed. Stuff like this is the reason people bash brawl+ The fact that their is more discussion about adding techjumpimg and not removing random footstools is beyond dumb.

Well... it's not even in the game.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

@DeLoRtEd1

The function of these two game mechanics is not equal.

If you are referencing the similarities in respect to timing, then yes you could compare them.

However, if you read correctly, I never said anything about not making the timing strict. I said that making techjumping trickier to perform is a terrible idea. Perhaps I wasn't clear, but that was in reference to your suggestion about multiple button presses.

I said that techjumping should feel natural, and, in all honesty, I think parrying feels natural as far as the input goes.

 

[Deleted member]

Techjumping is a stupid idea

a logical, backed up thesis?

and further proves the point that the hackers are getting way too full of themselves and adding stuff simply cause they have the power too and not because it's needed. Stuff like this is the reason people bash brawl+ The fact that their is more discussion about adding techjumpimg and not removing random footstools is beyond dumb.

how does proposing a brawl+ exclusive AT prove anything other than brawl+ > brawl?

no. i'll tell you the reason why people bash brawl+:

WAY TOO many noobs from vBrawl with 0 competitive experience in any game other than ****ing tic tac toe commenting in this thread.

 

[Roxas215]

Well... it's not even in the game.

I know it's not. Still the fact that yall are even considering it is just dumb. When people make ideas like this just say no point blank.

a logical, backed up thesis?



how does proposing a brawl+ exclusive AT prove anything other than brawl+ > brawl?

no. i'll tell you the reason why people bash brawl+:

WAY TOO many noobs from vBrawl with 0 competitive experience in any game other than ****ing tic tac toe commenting in this thread.

I guess your also one of the people who think brawl+ has just as much tech skill as melee right? I almost died laughing when i seen someone post that)

Brawl+ is a great game and yes it adds more depth and competitive nature to the game of brawl. But thats it. Lets not act like this project is going to be NEARLY as deep as melee is cause point blank it's not. Anyone can pick up brawl+ and pwn with any char in a matter of days. The fact that fox can do all his crazy melee shenanigans WITHOUT THE TECH SKILL needed in melee proves this point. Wasn't the main focus of brawl+ simply to deepen the regualr game of brawl? What exactly is the point of adding brawl+ exclusive at's? Like i said this is a matter of adding stuff simply cause you have the power to and not cause it's needed.

 

[Deleted member]

I know it's not. Still the fact that yall are even considering it is just dumb. When people make ideas like this just say no point blank.

"your honor, my client is innocent!"

"and your reasoning?"

"cause that charge is just dumb yo"

phillyrider if you kindly read back 5 pages or so where I basically ***** Wingflier for spouting such nonsense that brawl+ takes almost as much tech skill as melee. that was me. trust me, i would destroy you at that game.

 

[Roxas215]

"your honor, my client is innocent!"

"and your reasoning?"

"cause that charge is just dumb yo"

phillyrider if you kindly read back 5 pages or so where I basically ***** Wingflier for spouting such nonsense that brawl+ takes almost as much tech skill as melee. that was me. trust me, i would destroy you at that game.

If that was you then you should see where im coming from. And how is beating me in melee have anything to do with this conversation?

 

[BananaTrooper]

If that was you then you should see where im coming from. And how is beating me in melee have anything to do with this conversation?

well you know

if he beats you

he>you

and by extension

his opinion>yours



(dont flame me please)

 

[KOkingpin]

for what its worth I think Tech Jumping is a really bad idea.

Now have character slots for Roy and Dr.Mario Skins. that would be amazing.

 

[Roxas215]

for what its worth I think Tech Jumping is a really bad idea.

Now have character slots for Roy and Dr.Mario Skins. that would be amazing.

Almas is working on it.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

well you know

if he beats you

he>you

and by extension

his opinion>yours



(dont flame me please)

this would be consistent with phillyrider's logic

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Making something difficult to do does not equal balance.

Quiet before you upset an idiot.

 

[Deleted member]

removing random footstools

Random footstools?

 

[JCaesar]

Yeah, you know, when you randomly place yourself right above someone and randomly press the jump button. You just never know when that might happen...

 

[The_Guide]

I found a glitch. If you do a grounded murder choke at the edge, the choked person falls through the air in their standing animation. As in, what they would look like on the stage. I found this on Ike, I'll test other characters tomorrow.