Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Revven]

Pfff exaggerating, look at Samus, missle camping and oh if you try to touch her Z-Air is there to kick your ***.

But she's not dominating everything, is she? She isn't THAT amazing, you can get around her camping. Her camping is not nearly as good as Falco's. And no matter what you do, she's always going to be somewhat campy, it's her style, she has projectiles and a Zair. There were Samus's that were campy in Melee and did well too, this isn't something new. Camping can't EVER be COMPLETELY gone. There will be characters who have campy playstyles, and Samus and Falco both have that style. Removing that from them is removing something important to them and changing them into something the mains of that character might not like.

At this point, this is as fast as Brawl+ will be. We can't increase dash speed anymore because if we do, characters then become too fast and may have the Nana syndrome (teleporting around) and we don't want that. We're not turning this into Melee so of course it's not going to have the same speed.

 

[PosthumusES]

Some how I wish for it to be like Melee set-up, because Melee set-up, you see different variety of set-ups, rather than being same one.

And sometime it better to use a worst set-up than a better one.


Go ask Kupo, he will tell you why Melee is better than Brawl+.

 

[Arkaether]

Some how I wish for it to be like Melee set-up, because Melee set-up, you see different variety of set-ups, rather than being same one.

And sometime it better to use a worst set-up than a better one.

It'd be nice if you gave examples instead of spouting about how much better Melee is.

 

[PosthumusES]

It be much better for the game if you follow Melee, but instead you have a nolstagic feeling that it don't need to be Melee.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

Some how I wish for it to be like Melee set-up, because Melee set-up, you see different variety of set-ups, rather than being same one.

And sometime it better to use a worst set-up than a better one.


Go ask Kupo, he will tell you why Melee is better than Brawl+.

*facedesk*

Are you trolling?

Brawl+ isn't Melee 2.0. Doesn't want to be, and really can't be.

Go play Melee if you like it so much more than Brawl+...

 

[PosthumusES]

I don't troll. And Brawl+ does need to be Melee 2.0, if I can play a game that is much better, than why bother trying to save a dead one.

 

[Revven]

Go ask Kupo, he will tell you why Melee is better than Brawl+.

I don't like talking to kupo about Melee because you wanna know why? I already know Melee is better. I don't need you to tell me that. I already know why Melee is as good as it is. Does Brawl+ need to be an exact carbon copy of it? **** no. Get that **** out of your head right now. I'm sick of people like yourself that have to be pig headed and say "Melee is better, follow it" because we don't need to follow it step by step to have a successful game. Using it as a guide, maybe, but copying it exactly? No.

You're not giving any good examples at all on what needs to be fixed in your eyes but guess what? I could care less for your opinion now because as far as I'm concerned, it's the same as kupo's so I already know your complaints. Thanks for nothing.

 

[PosthumusES]

I like how the Plussery say that we are making uncecessary suggestions, but you guys do it yourself, stop contradicting yourself. I don't mean to be rude, but it just that some of the gameplays are sloppy, I'm going to stop now.

 

[proteininja]

Sorry.

10char

 

[PosthumusES]

I'm 15 and I'm a foreigner,sorry that I'm not highly intelligent as you are.

 

[PosthumusES]

I'm just going to stop now, but did you guys read the post about the toon link up-b fix.

 

[timothyung]

The English language just died, and subsequently if you aren't intelligent enough to speak why do we care what your opinion is?

Please don't ignore others just because of their bad grammar. At least you know what he's saying. The point is his content.
PosthumusES, please give more examples and details to your opinions. You can't just say "the game is bad, fix it". Fix what? You have to explain.

 

[Arkaether]

I'm 15 and I'm a foreigner,sorry that I'm not highly intelligent as you are.

You forgot an "as" between "highly" and "intelligent". Also, it's generally considered correct to add a space between a comma and the word after.

And nobody's going to take you seriously until you provide something even resembling evidence, proof, details, or any other various assorted forms of information that would back up your point. Which, until now, you have not.

 

[PosthumusES]

What did I say about I'm going to stop debating. Now let fix the characters instead

 

[Me_Aludes]

Yoshi seems kinda boring to me. SH B-Air -> Repeat, random smashes to kill, and n-air/jab to fight preassure. He seems average o mediocre at everything.
He needs some work.

 

[stingers]

Bair combos into Uair, a kill move

 

[Deleted member]

What did I say about I'm going to stop debating. Now let fix the characters instead

You can't just say "the game is bad, fix it". Fix what? You have to explain.

10characte

 

[timothyung]

10characte

I mean just make some attacks have more KB so that it don't follow up as much, and when we do get a throw MOD, modifier grabs to have stronger knockback, so that the same set-up isn't being repeated as much.

He didn't really explain well though, if we give moves more KB, there will be even less set-ups. Be more specific, please

 

[PosthumusES]

I want it to be less combo, and more about thinking to earn those combos. I want for there to be more strategic combo, rather than using the same thing over and over.

 

[Sterowent]

in all honesty, i do understand his want of more setups and freestyle-esque combos. more or less, he seems to want the feeling melee's combo system had: an open canvas that felt smooth and real.

how it became this way, i'd imagine, is from the many Ways to influence setups. Melee had a big chunk of techniques that gave you the ability to give your character extraordinary control over their motion, some more difficult to perform than others. Throws were a big influence here as well, though those will be modable eventually...hopefully. (been studying programming, but i'm so far away from being of use it's atrocious)

as well, in melee And 64, the opponent was made to be comboed, unless they were lightweights, and even then...
Moreso than brawl certainly, and more than b+, considering the lesser gravities and empowered DI in the former, and huge hitstun in the latter.

In b+, the problem lies in the potency of a few great setups vs. mediocre and weak ones. Consider mario's dthrow and many up-oriented attacks. Consider MK, overall (though i'm reluctant to mention the guy, since he was always this way: b+ or not). The baseline combos and setups are so efficient, often in their reliable conceptions, that, as the best options, players default to them without having to worry too much about varying up their games. This isn't to say variety is inexistent, since no one wants to be predictable, but it certainly doesn't feel as 'open source' as melee or 64.


I'm ready to see more awesome techniques talked about, implemented, and balanced. Of course, i don't expect our wonderful programmers to be slaves to this, since this is basically charity (and nondeductible, at that!) but adding more techniques to control motion will certainly add to the setup and freestyle comboing game that people especially loved in the past smashes. Or my name is sally mcAllfo'aDollah.

 

[thesage]

I absolutely agree with the above poster, but again we should wait to balance out the characters, then add in techniques, and then rebalance them.

 

[Shadic]

I want it to be less combo, and more about thinking to earn those combos. I want for there to be more strategic combo, rather than using the same thing over and over.

How about you give some specific examples of how that could be obtained as compared to vague statements regarding what should be done?

I could say "I want the game perfectly balanced for every character," but nobody with two braincells would consider that a valid contribution.

If you aren't going to actually help, stop complaining and making demands.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

im just waiting for character specific hitstun. and I know what that guy who you guys consider a troll is saying. like uptilt>uptilt>to maybe another uptilt. I asked a long time ago about a way to make moves that easily combo with itself less spammable but didn't understand how to say it. wait...O_O

 

[PosthumusES]

How about you give some specific examples of how that could be obtained as compared to vague statements regarding what should be done?

I could say "I want the game perfectly balanced for every character," but nobody with two braincells would consider that a valid contribution.

If you aren't going to actually help, stop complaining and making demands.

Maybe umm make it less hitstun, so that there won't be too much combos, but not to little to the point there are no combos. As Skip2Maloo said, the specific hitstun could help.

 

[Revven]

im just waiting for character specific hitstun. and I know what that guy who you guys consider a troll is saying. like uptilt>uptilt>to maybe another uptilt. I asked a long time ago about a way to make moves that easily combo with itself less spammable but didn't understand how to say it. wait...O_O

Character specific hitstun would fix a lot of the problems with some things (CF) and overall repetitive combos. Almas I was told is implementing it into his new engine codes so realize that it is coming but, again, he is busy so it will take some time.

Can we move away from this discussion now? It's something we cannot do, at all, at this current time. (Again, Almas is WORKING on it, doesn't mean it's done and that we can do it).

 

[PosthumusES]

sorry for all the trouble I cause, I hope we can still work together for a overall better game than vbrawl

Just a little suggestions with CF.

Can we make the Gentleman stronger KB so that it can be use and give Falcon better options?

His Dair should be a little stronger, because remebering from Melee it kill at 160%, but in this one it doesn't send high enough, and so it could lead to Dair> Knee.

Not asking for it to be like Melee, but just stronger.

 

[Revven]

His Dair should be a little stronger, because remebering from Melee it kill at 160%, but in this one it doesn't send high enough, and so it could lead to Dair> Knee.

Not asking for it to be like Melee, but just stronger.

CF already got a Dair buff. It's good enough.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

What's everyones stance on Ganondorf?

 

[PosthumusES]

It did? Oh the spike part, okay that good enough for me.


Toon link up-b kbg is too high I think and I think that the reason why it won't connect, and it leave him open. So maybe lower it to help him recover a little better. It won't remove his weakness or anything, but make it easier for him.


Falco400, what about the Gentleman buff? and btw Kupo I think in his sets made the Gentleman higher KB, so it won't be that much of a trouble for you to add, just saying.

i have not test ganon yet, but I will give feedback soon.

 

[Shell]

@ChronoPenguin, as you've probably seen Giza has been doing an excellent job of using the CAM to make the choke untechable. He's got a few bugs to iron out, but it makes a big difference in his game.

I'm working on tweaking his grab game and a few other small adjustments and he should be ready to go for Gold release.

@Sterowent and thesage, feel free to be proactive and compile a list of adjustments on setups you'd recommend.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Sounds sweet.
Any specifics on those small adjustments?

 

[Yingyay]

About TLink's upB. I think it's bkb is too high. The individual hits send people too far and make it too easy to DI out of. Same with his fsmash in a way

 

[Me_Aludes]

Bair combos into Uair, a kill move

Which encourages B-Air spam.

I mean, Yoshi's SH Bair it's not by any means broken, but it's almost always his better option. Its fast, has few landing lag, a good hitbox, comboes and it's really, really hard to punish (Yoshi has the best aerial mobility IIRC).

It's just annoying that it ALWAYS seems the best option to start a combo/ preassuring your opponent. He should have a more risky option, but more rewarding too. IDC if the characters are balanced or not if they are boring to play.

 

[stingers]

He should have a more risky option, but more rewarding too.

Fair...lol.

 

[Me_Aludes]

Fair...lol.

Maybe it's just me, but F-air is slow as hell, easy to shield and easier to punish than b-air, and it usually comboes into... U-air, which B-air already does. B-Air is waaaaaaaaaay better for set-ups, and both combo into finishers. F-air makes 15%, but if you connect all the hits of B-Air it does 13%.

I don't main Yoshi, but I think it's something to look into, as some characters have been buffed when they weren't that bad at all.

 

[KOkingpin]

Ganon's Side B being untechable is OK. The move does nine damage, and can only be linked to his jab, dtilt or ftilt depending on characters. 20% isn't that much for this, his stomp already does 22%. The damage is OK, and this move is not that easy to hit with.
Ganon's Up B is a throw, so we cannot fix it until we have a throw modifier.
Yoshi's out-of-shield animation is already sped up by 2x if you didn't notice.

well see about the side b. If you link to a D-Tilt then it basically a free F-Air or U-Air (although it does require a bit of prediction on the part of the Ganon player to sweet spot the f-air due to DI) However I don't mind getting free low % Killing combos. I just don't think the majority of players will think that is fair. Then again Side B is pretty easy to avoid so I cant see both sides of the argument.

with Yoshi speed up the animation makes him a little less vulnerable so i can accept that i suppose. The only thing I wish that could be added to Yoshi was a Tether grab to the ledge. But i don't see that happening.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

eh only reason most people say yoshi sucks is cuz he's boring and doesn't have many options. most of the time im either jabbing OOS, or bair spam, or pivot grab baiting. most of his combos are just little tricks, like first jab, ftilt, or uair>dj uair>egg tossing

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

eh only reason most people say yoshi sucks is cuz he's boring and doesn't have many options. most of the time im either jabbing OOS, or bair spam, or pivot grab baiting. most of his combos are just little tricks, like first jab, ftilt, or uair>dj uair>egg tossing

edit: accidental double post
edit#2: I use smashboards on my phone, lost service during 1st post, so when service came back I pressed the post button again because the phone froze mid load screen.

 

[stingers]

how do you make a double post 6 minutes after...

 

[thesage]

So yea, I was testing out the Ness djc code and I really like it. I usually play with tap jump off and it was really easy for me to get the timing of djc down. You can still doing rising dj aerials off the ground if you just press the jump button 3 times instead of 2. After around 10 mins of practice I got it down pretty solidly, so I don't really see why others had problems getting the timing down... I wouldn't mind if he went into that weird pre djc animation every time he tried to do a dj (and then he would do a normal dj the next time he jumped).

There are 3 problems I see with the djc however. He gets invincibility during it (I think, since he flashes, no clue about that though), uair doesn't combo that well (not enough hitstun) and can't be done close to the ground since it has too much startup lag (which was the main djc move in the other smash games), and apparently he has shieldbreaker combos (I personally, couldn't test it but that's what Shanus said...).

Djc gives him actually OoS options like djc fair/nair, better gtfo moves, and faster movement. It doesn't really help his combo game since the weak hits of fair don't set up for much besides like a jab if you're luckly, bair is for killing, and nair sends people too low (could set up for tech chases if Ness moved faster lol)), dair can't be used, and uair doesn't have enough hitstun.

I hope the wbr doesn't give up on djc. At first I was skeptical about it, but now I really like it...