Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[gantrain05]

FAIL!



and FAIL!

It has been agreed upon between the kirby and falco boards that this is a neutral match-up or a 55-45 falco. Even the kirby boards say kirby is NOT at an advantage against falco.

well i got news for ya, things change, u really think in a year that the matchup chart is going to stay the same? i also agree kirby owns falco hard, he really owns all the space animals pretty well actually.

double post? what double post?

 

[Zankoku]

Hey IvanEva, here's the matchups thread for Sheik
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174741

Enjoy.

 

[Union of Darkness]

Bowser = Meta Knight

LOL WUT?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

to sth i have not played many peach's but the ones i have played i beat and it was not that hard of fight i don't see why you think peach beats zelda

honestly, peach ***** zelda in the air and off the stage.

as far as on the stage... I dunno... if she floats a few feet above the stage, it's really hard for zelda to nail her with anything since she can move out of harms way so quickly... and it's really easy for peach to punish a whiff on Zelda's part.

May I request that sheik/zelda be posted as one character, since they are in fact one character? If I'm trying to find out who I should pick to counter that annoying Zelda who hurts my poor ROB I'm going to be sadly disappointed (according to the chart) if I pick Ness. sheik and Zelda can be swapped back and forth anytime. They are one character. Also would be nice for Pokemon trainer. You can't use squirtle, you can't use Ivysaur and you can't use Charizard. In the very least you need to use two. You could keep the single ones, but it'd be nice if those compiled were added to the end. Since the swap from samus to zamus takes time (impossible for me, I just can't do it) and is generally less useful than just picking zamus I don't think that would be necessary. It's a one way permanent swap.

I completely agree... except that ness is better against shiek than he is against zelda... hrmmm... it would be best to put Zelda, Shiek AND Zelda/Shiek all as 3 different characters

 

[Browny]

but thats irrelevant... if a matchup is good/bad for shiek/zelda, then the overall matchup would be good, since no one is going to deliberately use the disadvantaged character. same applies for good/good and bad/bad situations. the combined one wouldnt tell you anything different than you can already see

 

[T Bird]

I agree that the combined one wouldn't tell me anymore than what I could see, except that's not really entirely true. An opponent sheik deals damage to well but can't finish, while Zelda can't damage well would be beaten by the combo. Frankly I don't know if any of this exists, but more importantly, and the reason I asked, is that it is a ROYAL pain in the but to try scroll all over this chart saying, ok, Zelda good sheik bad, that's actually a good, Zelda bad sheik ok... that's an ok... Now let's try to tally everything, ok, I see, they actually only have 4 counters and 9 even matches, that's not so bad. Yeah, I can do that, but it's annoying. Pokemon trainer of course CAN'T be considered three seperate characters. If squirtal is fine with someone, but the other two get PWNED that is a counter against the entire character, since you HAVE to use at least two Pokemon, or be pwned. It is useful to see them seperate, but it is also helpful to see them together. And so I ask, could you place them up as a single character, and seperate.

In the case of s/zamus I am unaware as to the tourny rules for choice. If a player chooses samus and the opponent then chooses, are you allowed to hold R for z suit in a double blind, or must you declare which you are using? I would think that you should be able to choose after your opponent, but if not we wouldn't necessarily need a combined. If so then it would DEFFINATELY be helpful for a combined, as well as separate.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I agree that the combined one wouldn't tell me anymore than what I could see, except that's not really entirely true. An opponent sheik deals damage to well but can't finish, while Zelda can't damage well would be beaten by the combo. Frankly I don't know if any of this exists, but more importantly, and the reason I asked, is that it is a ROYAL pain in the but to try scroll all over this chart saying, ok, Zelda good sheik bad, that's actually a good, Zelda bad sheik ok... that's an ok... Now let's try to tally everything, ok, I see, they actually only have 4 counters and 9 even matches, that's not so bad. Yeah, I can do that, but it's annoying. Pokemon trainer of course CAN'T be considered three seperate characters. If squirtal is fine with someone, but the other two get PWNED that is a counter against the entire character, since you HAVE to use at least two Pokemon, or be pwned. It is useful to see them seperate, but it is also helpful to see them together. And so I ask, could you place them up as a single character, and seperate.

In the case of s/zamus I am unaware as to the tourny rules for choice. If a player chooses samus and the opponent then chooses, are you allowed to hold R for z suit in a double blind, or must you declare which you are using? I would think that you should be able to choose after your opponent, but if not we wouldn't necessarily need a combined. If so then it would DEFFINATELY be helpful for a combined, as well as separate.

Zelda has no trouble wracking up damage
it's just... if she wastes her moves wracking up damage, they are decayed by the time she needs them to KO.

ROB is the best example I can think of where Zelda/shiek is the best possible choice... though some other characters like fox, g&w, ganon, and some others recieve slight boosts by using this playstyle

 

[Nintendevil]

Zelda>ROB because Zelda has long smashes that out prioritse most of ROB's attacks and extend hitboxes past the point that ROB can't use his D-smash counter...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda>ROB because Zelda has long smashes that out prioritse most of ROB's attacks and extend hitboxes past the point that ROB can't use his D-smash counter...

shiek gets inside ROB and just wracks up the damage... Shiek just can't seal the deal... luckily Zelda can do that easily

 

[Nintendevil]

shiek gets inside ROB and just wracks up the damage... Shiek just can't seal the deal... luckily Zelda can do that easily

Nope I'de disagree. It's a simple matter of priority. if a gimping is the best option for shiek because of her fast arials, but a good ROB can avoid this with his uber Fairs.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Nope I'de disagree. It's a simple matter of priority. if a gimping is the best option for shiek because of her fast arials, but a good ROB can avoid this with his uber Fairs.

ummm that was exactly my point. Sheik can;t KO him... but that doesn't mean shiek can't still wrack up the damage like normal.

 

[Nintendevil]

ummm that was exactly my point. Sheik can;t KO him... but that doesn't mean shiek can't still wrack up the damage like normal.

but to rob gimping almost never means KOing XD

I mean same for zelda. It's her smash priority. always the **** Usmash

And and when i say gimping is the best option...that's still not so good, so shiek is not a good counter for ROB. Even if zelda uses a lot of smashes, they will most likely hit because of her priority. As for shiek...like I said, her best option is gimping like crazy, wich is not a KO option for ROB, so it is a damage racker, and I just explained how to counter it....

This is just my opinion from facing shieks as a ROB main, but I don't find Shiek that great for racking up damage.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

but to rob gimping almost never means KOing XD

I mean same for zelda. It's her smash priority. always the **** Usmash

I don't understand what you aren't understanding... you don't TRY to use shiek to KO... you use zelda to do that, but use shiek to build all his damage.

 

[Nintendevil]

Read last post. I edit stuff too much >_______>

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Read last post. I edit stuff too much >_______>

um I still don't understand the way you are talking... gimping isn't a damage racker.... shiek just juggles well

 

[gantrain05]

shiek can ko just fine, just don't use her ko moves to rack up damage, people make it out to be some huge deal how she can't ko, but she really doesn't have that much of a problem. save her Usmash, Fsmash, Bair, and Nair for KO's and she can kill easy at 130% which isn't too bad.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

shiek can ko just fine, just don't use her ko moves to rack up damage, people make it out to be some huge deal how she can't ko, but she really doesn't have that much of a problem. save her Usmash, Fsmash, Bair, and Nair for KO's and she can kill easy at 130% which isn't too bad.

too bad shiek can't CONNECT with kill moves near as well as Zelda's can. and if you're just gonna hold onto KO moves the whole time, you might as well be Zelda... whose DECAYED moves can kill at those damages.

 

[gallax]

g&w is an equal matchup with marth. go to their matchup threads if you want to know why.

 

[gantrain05]

too bad shiek can't CONNECT with kill moves near as well as Zelda's can. and if you're just gonna hold onto KO moves the whole time, you might as well be Zelda... whose DECAYED moves can kill at those damages.

say what you will, but i don't think its EVER hard to connect with a Fair or Bair or even an Usmash, so how can u not connect with arials that are almost the fastest in the game? your crazy man.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

say what you will, but i don't think its EVER hard to connect with a Fair or Bair or even an Usmash, so how can u not connect with arials that are almost the fastest in the game? your crazy man.

sheik's smashes I mean. and Sheik's aerials... LOW KO power

 

[PhantomBrawler]

well i got news for ya, things change, u really think in a year that the matchup chart is going to stay the same? i also agree kirby owns falco hard, he really owns all the space animals pretty well actually.

double post? what double post?

FAIL AGAIN!

why would we talk about what the match-up chart looks like in the future...we dont have that kind of knowledge yet. Right now, as in the present, as in what it is right now not the future....it has been agreed upon the falco=kirby....so....ya.....phail.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

FAIL AGAIN!

why would we talk about what the match-up chart looks like in the future...we dont have that kind of knowledge yet. Right now, as in the present, as in what it is right now not the future....it has been agreed upon the falco=kirby....so....ya.....phail.

Even then thte chart is wrong, as it says Falco > Kirby

 

[Exodiathegreat]

i personally thnk hat ganon has an advantae over carizard... even hough their are both slow, and charizard is faster and overall better... it seems that alot of ganons moves go sraight through... allowing your damae o accumulate.. maybe... hats my opinion...

 

[ROOOOY!]

i personally thnk hat ganon has an advantae over carizard... even hough their are both slow, and charizard is faster and overall better... it seems that alot of ganons moves go sraight through... allowing your damae o accumulate.. maybe... hats my opinion...

Charizard used Flamethrower!
It's super effective!

Ganon doesn't have a safe approach against Charizard.

Spoiler

Or anyone else in fact >_<

 

[Clai]

Charizard used Flamethrower!
It's super effective!

Ganon doesn't have a safe approach against Charizard.
Or anyone else in fact >_<

We've got to use teh mindgames, son!

But yeah, Ganon's got it tough, he can't approach anyone safely. However I do find it hilarious how Ganon's foward-smash destroy's Charizard's Rock Smash.

@ShadowLink: All I'm going to say is that people play very predictably at times to the point that theoreticals start to matter very little.

But for now, keep your dumb advantage ROB, but it's not going to stop this Ganon from playing this matchup. *Tosses a white flag at Shadowlink and walks away*

 

[ShadowLink84]

Not often is someone going to behave predictably.

*looks at white flag for a moment*
ARCHERS! FIRE!

*ensue storm of arrows*

 

[DanGR]

I'm heading an effort to get Olimar's matchups straightened out. Here's the thread:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185014

The things I don't agree with right now are Ness' and Sheik's numbers. I think Ness goes even and Sheik has the advantage. I'll come back when the Olimar boards have come to a conclusion about these two characters.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Hmm I don't know why, but it sounds odd for Sheik to have an advantage over Olimar.
hmmm

 

[hippiedude92]

I disagree the fact Luigi has a disadvantage against Ike. Luigi has a huge advantage over him. He can camp and force Ike to approach and dominate him air-wise which is Luigi's speciality. Also it's not that hard gimping him either.

 

[exidid]

honestly, peach ***** zelda in the air and off the stage.

as far as on the stage... I dunno... if she floats a few feet above the stage, it's really hard for zelda to nail her with anything since she can move out of harms way so quickly... and it's really easy for peach to punish a whiff on Zelda's part.

Me, as a Peach mainer, can say that Zelda is a really tough matchup for Peach. Her up smash destroys my approaches and getting near her is just a slap in the face.

But maybe I don't have enough experience against her.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Me, as a Peach mainer, can say that Zelda is a really tough matchup for Peach. Her up smash destroys my approaches and getting near her is just a slap in the face.

But maybe I don't have enough experience against her.

maybe it's just that peach has more good users than Zelda does... but most I've faced just know how to get around Zelda so easily >.<

 

[Nowaytoeatatater]

Pika should have a large advantage over Falcon.

 

[DanGR]

Hmm I don't know why, but it sounds odd for Sheik to have an advantage over Olimar.
hmmm

Olimar has really bad priority issues against Sheik. All of Sheik's attack go through all of Olimar's pikmin attack except upair. Sheik's nair>jab combo can't be defended against. Sheik can spam that one approach and win. Olimar has no counter to it.

 

[Onxy]

This post does not exist.

 

[exidid]

maybe it's just that peach has more good users than Zelda does... but most I've faced just know how to get around Zelda so easily >.<

There's an old thread about this matchup in the Peach boards.

Here it is:
Against Zelda

I'd like to hear what Zelda mainers say about Peach.

 

[Afro Boy2000]

Mario>ROB

Mario>Sheik

 

[popsofctown]

Peach has to bait the upsmash and punish the after lag. She baits upsmashes very easily because of her dynamic movement. Vs. Zelda practice will lead to peach winning a lot.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Peach has to bait the upsmash and punish the after lag. She baits upsmashes very easily because of her dynamic movement. Vs. Zelda practice will lead to peach winning a lot.

that's my experience with the matchup... Zelda's Usmash might be fast, but she still has to activate it before peach gets right on top of her... and with peach's floating... it's hard to tell whether or not she's going to or not... and, once she baits Zelda.. she can easily punish and keep pressure applied

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i disagree i feel zelda has the advantage here. lets say the peach baits the up-smash how many times will a good zelda fall for the bait? not many times depending on what eye level peach is floating at zelda's f-smash, up-smash, f-tilt, up-tilt will hit also peach is a ok sized character so lightning kicks are not that hard to land. Also if the peach is floating the lightning kicks should be easier to land. din's fire even if the peach is good enough that they wont hit will be forced to approach and if the peach tries turnips the zelda could hit with din's when the peach is trying to throw or trade hits if the din's is aimed at the flow. also grabing the turnips do to zelda's dash attack is not that tough and zelda can glide toss well. and while peach is trying to recover zelda has a goos chance of hitting with some din's due to peach having to float b/c of bad 2nd jump and while peach is in her up-B she is an easy target.

i know this seems very one sided and i am sure peach has some stuff on zelda but i don't know peach well enough to say what it is she has plus i am just showing why i belive zelda has the advantage on peach

 

[Mmac]

I know it's been said over and over again, but you need to update Yoshi's side of the Chart!