Bouncing Fish

[YaBoiobZ]

So I am really looking forward to playing the new Sheik in SSB4. I have been very disappointing because I have yet to see anybody take advantage of this new move. Is it because the move is useless or what. From all the gameplay I have seen I have not yet seen anybody use it to recover, nor have I seen any people land a good hit from it out of a combo. There was a Sheik in the 3DS tournament that they had at Comic Con but all he did was run away and spam needles and burst grenade, literally no other moves. And that's why that Sheik got 4 stocked in Winners Finals once he got paired up against somebody decent. So basically what I am posting this thread for it, does anybody have any footage of Sheik using her new down b "Bouncing Fish" usefully.

 

[im just peachy]

aw yeah I remember that. bouncing fish looks great,
but it's not seen very often for the same reason we
barely saw phantom slash on the 3ds version.
Zelda&Sheik users just aren't used to that being a move.
plus, most of the players were playing a timed match with a few stocks.
so I doubt any of them thought that was a good time to try new moves out.
better safe than sorry .

also, I don't think that the sheik in the tournament was bad, I'm guessing that they
were just trying to play safe, they probably saw how well the bowsers were doing
and wanted to keep as much distance as possible.
- I'm excited to see some footage of it though ! Sheik is going to be amazing

 

[YaBoiobZ]

I disagree. This was a demo of the game for the to get a chance to see what it is going to be like. There were videos of people playing even when not in a tournament atmosphere. And even if it was, playing the game early like this is a great way to test out the new elements that were added to the game such as new moves.
And that sheik in the tournament played the same way even before she played the Bowsers. That Sheik was just a camper!

 

[Tristan_win]

aw yeah I remember that. bouncing fish looks great,
but it's not seen very often for the same reason we
barely saw phantom slash on the 3ds version.
Zelda&Sheik users just aren't used to that being a move.
plus, most of the players were playing a timed match with a few stocks.
so I doubt any of them thought that was a good time to try new moves out.
better safe than sorry .

also, I don't think that the sheik in the tournament was bad, I'm guessing that they
were just trying to play safe, they probably saw how well the bowsers were doing
and wanted to keep as much distance as possible.
- I'm excited to see some footage of it though ! Sheik is going to be amazing

No, that sheik user was bad. There's a difference from playing it safe and nearly constantly giving up opportunities to punish so you can run away and side B more. He obviously didn't play Sheik in Brawl at all.

 

[Ganreizu]

She's mostly the same so far though, right?

**** no.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

Bouncing Fish is probably my favorite update for any of the returning fighters (might even be my favorite move so far overall, even).
Looks like the sort of move that will get you a badass KO.

 

[Tristan_win]

URG I can't keep up without owning the game

just look at this gif, my thoughts of BF has just vastly improved

Even if the bthrow one isn't a true combo it doesn't matter as it could very easily be at a differnt percentage. The fact is this shows sheik can follow up throws into BF and it can kill around 100% off the side so using that thinking it might be able to kill below 130% from the center of FD which means it's a very soild kill option.

I would also like to take this moment and point out that Sheik has a killing dthrow into uair combo, killing bthrow into BF or bair that can kill and a fthrow into BF combo that can kill. We also look to have guaranteed follow ups at most % from grab, sheik grab game is fantastic and on it's own merit make Sheik a good character that's going to be at least mid tier. BY ITS SELF, now include everything else we have plus everything sheik had in brawl.

If this game is so simlair to brawl which I don't think it is but IF it is then I think we shouldn't settle for high tier, I'm going to start thinking top until i see someone else have a option like ours.

 

[Unicorn]

Does she get any invincibility during the move, like ZSS does for her down b?

 

[Chauzu]

I've not played Sheik myself but this move has impressed me. Fast, nice kill power but most of all - you can jump out of a shielding opponent. In Smash 4 shielding is very nice and you can punish a lot of attacks afterwards but with Bouncing Fish you just press B again and you jump away from the situation.

Feels like a very spamable move really.

 

[Tristan_win]

While I was watching one of @Jtails videos they spoke about how we can adjust BF range and the showed it off. Which is amazing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Hu_fRrPF8

This move keep on proving it's self useful.

 

[lRasha]

Hello everyone! I've been watching a good bit of Sheik videos online. I REALLY liked this video. This guy definitely makes good use of the Bouncing Fish. I'll post the times that he hits with it.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rufNPSIOue4

0:30 Uses it on the stage
0:40 Hits him from off-stage
1:10 Hits him from off-stage
4:20 Hits him from off-stage
5:40 I LOVE THIS! Grabs the edge and then quickly uses bouncing fish to attack.

Well, I think he grabs the edge, lets go, jumps fast afterwards, and then quickly uses it.

5:50 Hits him from off-stage (while getting hit himself)
6:50 Hits him from off-stage
7:08 Hits him within the platform area in the air
8:00 Runs and uses it

 

[Unicorn]

Hello everyone! I've been watching a good bit of Sheik videos online. I REALLY liked this video. This guy definitely makes good use of the Bouncing Fish. I'll post the times that he hits with it.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rufNPSIOue4

0:30 Uses it on the stage
0:40 Hits him from off-stage
1:10 Hits him from off-stage
4:20 Hits him from off-stage
5:40 I LOVE THIS! Grabs the edge and then quickly uses bouncing fish to attack.

Well, I think he grabs the edge, lets go, jumps fast afterwards, and then quickly uses it.

5:50 Hits him from off-stage (while getting hit himself)
6:50 Hits him from off-stage
7:08 Hits him within the platform area in the air
8:00 Runs and uses it

Ya Denti is pretty beast. Also he has great taste in Shiek costume choice...

Another great use of Bouncing Fish is to wall cling on the edge after you knock them away with Fair or whatever. You can get some extra distance off of the wall jump.

 

[Bunny8093]

Holy cow I thought I wasn't going to like Bouncing Fish but from what I'm seeing I was dead wrong. This will be very useful indeed.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So how does Bouncing fish change up Sheik's gameplay and what's it's basic function. I got tired of people gushing about the Dr Tornado so let's see how this fares.

 

[Tristan_win]

So how does Bouncing fish change up Sheik's gameplay and what's it's basic function. I got tired of people gushing about the Dr Tornado so let's see how this fares.

Well for starters it kills around 100% from off the side of FD so it's a pretty good kill move
Sheik can combo/semi combo into it with fthrow/bthrow near killing %
Sheik can also combo fair into it fairly well
The distance is adjustable and it's max range is fairly long, about 1/3 the distance of FD (It could be 1/4) meaning it greatly buff to not only sheik recovery but from getting juggled as well (one of sheik weakness)
When it hits shields or walls Sheik will bounce off so it's kinda safe but it can still ledge snap.
It's also pretty fast and may be Sheik fastest kill option so fishing for bouncing fish kill could very well be a real thing in the future.

With all that great stuff said I don't think it will change sheik game play that much from brawl. Yes people will use it as a combo finisher when they can and for gimping but the majority of the time good Sheik users will choose to save it so they can get kills earlier.

 

[cFive]

i played her alot already and i rly like her down-b, it is a good killmove, its fast, and very unexpected if you use it offstage! also its so flashy xD
using it on a wall is also a nice option to aim better, or use the kick later, since you can time it better at the second jump / if you use it on a wall!
i used it once to recover, it definitelly helps, although its not needed very often since shieks recovery is pretty good anyways!

 

[-dMT-]

 

[Lord P Wallington]

Well for starters it kills around 100% from off the side of FD so it's a pretty good kill move
Sheik can combo/semi combo into it with fthrow/bthrow near killing %
Sheik can also combo fair into it fairly well
The distance is adjustable and it's max range is fairly long, about 1/3 the distance of FD (It could be 1/4) meaning it greatly buff to not only sheik recovery but from getting juggled as well (one of sheik weakness)
When it hits shields or walls Sheik will bounce off so it's kinda safe but it can still ledge snap.
It's also pretty fast and may be Sheik fastest kill option so fishing for bouncing fish kill could very well be a real thing in the future.

With all that great stuff said I don't think it will change sheik game play that much from brawl. Yes people will use it as a combo finisher when they can and for gimping but the majority of the time good Sheik users will choose to save it so they can get kills earlier.

It's 1/3 of FD

 

[Prynne]

Just a quick note on the second variant known as "Jellyfish" in the English version. If custom moves are generally permitted in a tournament setting, I believe this one will be the most useful, ultimately. Initially, I thought it was junk, which it is, if you're striking a grounded opponent. If you strike an opponent in the air, however, say, just off the edge of FD, it kills around 80%, sometimes a bit earlier. This shocked me, because it was taking far longer for me to kill with the default one, and fairly longer with the third variant, due to the angle. Therefore, I can say with some degree of confidence that Jellyfish is possibly the most dangerous edgeguarding option Sheik has. It's reliability and ease of use, however has yet to be debated.

 

[allshort17]

Don't know if this has already been shared, but usually doing bouncing fish on a grounded opponent cause you to fly back and do nothing else. However, if you do the second attack on the way back before you hit the ground, you can act before you touch the ground. You can jump, airdodge, or do an aerial. I want to see how effective doing this on shield and canceling into a side-b is for pressure.

 

[-dMT-]

Sheik can successfully traverse under FD from one edge to the other now because of Bouncing Fish, as well as new stage guided recoveries (using Vanish holding straight up when inside and under the stage will follow the outline of the stage like in Melee rather than getting you stuck like in Brawl.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Well for starters it kills around 100% from off the side of FD so it's a pretty good kill move
Sheik can combo/semi combo into it with fthrow/bthrow near killing %
Sheik can also combo fair into it fairly well
The distance is adjustable and it's max range is fairly long, about 1/3 the distance of FD (It could be 1/4) meaning it greatly buff to not only sheik recovery but from getting juggled as well (one of sheik weakness)
When it hits shields or walls Sheik will bounce off so it's kinda safe but it can still ledge snap.
It's also pretty fast and may be Sheik fastest kill option so fishing for bouncing fish kill could very well be a real thing in the future.

With all that great stuff said I don't think it will change sheik game play that much from brawl. Yes people will use it as a combo finisher when they can and for gimping but the majority of the time good Sheik users will choose to save it so they can get kills earlier.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but I can't really seem to get BF as a followup to anything. the only time i get it is when im catching double jumps off stage

 

[Tristan_win]

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but I can't really seem to get BF as a followup to anything. the only time i get it is when im catching double jumps off stage

I based that claim off a gif someone posted for Sheik throwing mario into bf around 90% while still having a smoke trail. It is possible to combo bf from throws in training mode but the higher the percentages go the harsher the timing. I've personally found fthrow, dash, full hop into BF seem to work best for me but it might be DI dependent.

What someone needs to do, (someone like me ~sighs~) is go through training mode and test what the earliest sheik can throw into bf and what's the latest. Then people like yourself would at least have a general ball park to play in.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I've just been going into matches with a friend and saying 'hey can you just Di this away' and i can't ever really hit it

 

[East]

Is the move really called bouncing fish and not moonsault?

 

[Judo777]

Sheik can successfully traverse under FD from one edge to the other now because of Bouncing Fish, as well as new stage guided recoveries (using Vanish holding straight up when inside and under the stage will follow the outline of the stage like in Melee rather than getting you stuck like in Brawl.

The stage guided vanish was in brawl as well. it just got stuck on the left side of the stage and not the right due to an unusual bug.

The bug had a perk of never overshooting the ledge, but had the downside of straight gimping you if someone had the ledge. On the right side of the stage, you could ride slants up around the ledge all day.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@ Judo777
YOURE ALIVE!!!!!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAAAY

 

[-dMT-]

The stage guided vanish was in brawl as well. it just got stuck on the left side of the stage and not the right due to an unusual bug.

The bug had a perk of never overshooting the ledge, but had the downside of straight gimping you if someone had the ledge. On the right side of the stage, you could ride slants up around the ledge all day.

Brawl had stage guided upB's that extended vertical recovery range?

Hmm... Was I doing something wrong when I got stuck in a crevice under FD If I didn't position myself right, as opposed to like in Melee where if I was touching the stage and did upB, I traveled up so far I typically grabbed the edge before I even had the Vanish go off.. or even when it did, simply holding up was enough.

 

[Overmaster]

As someone just playing Sheik on the side, I thought it might be worth asking for your guys' thoughts on Bouncing Fish as an initiate. Since it can't be properly shielded, can it be used to catch opponent's off guard as a way to get in close?

 

[Judo777]

Brawl had stage guided upB's that extended vertical recovery range?

Hmm... Was I doing something wrong when I got stuck in a crevice under FD If I didn't position myself right, as opposed to like in Melee where if I was touching the stage and did upB, I traveled up so far I typically grabbed the edge before I even had the Vanish go off.. or even when it did, simply holding up was enough.

My bad I guess I fully didn't understand what you were saying. No in Brawl sheiks vanish distance was set in stone unless you hit a wall impeding your movement. So if you vanish straight up under the ledge you would pass it up (must travel full distance) then fall back to it. However if there was a slope between you and the point you try to vanish to, you would bend your angle around the slope resulting in landing in a different spot than you pointed the analog stick. It was as if sheik actually was still traveling the same distance, but part of it was being used to go around the slope.

However on the left sides of stages, if you attempted anything like this, you would actually stop at the ledge regardless of how much remaining distance you must travel. So bending around slopes wasn't really the case on the left half of stages. Also to note, for some reason FD was an exceptions to this rule also, you can't bend around FD slopes, the game just pretends they are walls and stops you dead.

@Scary Good to see you too man

 

[BobEugCox]

I have never been a huge fan of Sheik. I have always hated her Neutral & Side B attacks... that is until the 3DS version of Smash came out. I seriously think it's because of Bouncing Fish. There is no feeling as satisfying as jumping off the stage after knocking your opponent off the stage and KOing them with a midair Bouncing Fish. It feels like heaven... I am now a Sheik main...

(Her side B is a huge improvement as well, however I have learned the hard way not to try using it to explode the Blast Box... it pulls the box right at you and explodes in your face.)