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Bot training?

OHIYO

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
17
Location
Middletown, Ohio
I just recently downloaded Project M and as a Melee player I'm loving it. I also noticed that the bots have been givin a bit of tech skill and have done a little training against them. Is this a good idea? I don't have very many people to train with and this seems like a good option. Also, how well would training against the bots translate into Melee?
 

PlixiK

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
35
Location
Buffalo, NY
Personally, I refuse to face bots. They are usually doing something inhuman or something stupid like jump off the edge over and over. I suppose you could practice tech skill against them, but many tech skills require another person to practice. Ideally I would like to be able to set the AI to do exactly what I want to practice for, but there is no such feature. I suggest finding the smash community in your area and playing with them. There are loads of smash players all over the place.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
Use bots to hone your tech skill when no players are available to do so. Practice your SHFFLs on them, your general combos and setups, and just use them to get comfortable, but don't expect to have to be on the edge of your seat using every resource you have. The bots of PM have some neat stuff, but they either do inhumanly stupid things or inhumanly perfect things.
 

Mera Mera

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
372
Location
Neenah, WI
It's important to note that computers don't really understand dash dancing very well, but end up making up for it by having inhuman reaction times (literally).

There's this concept called burst range in fighters, meaning the range at which a character can put a hitbox before the opponent could possibly react. Burst range changes depending on position and understanding burst range is a large part of understanding how to get the "first hit" in any given conflict.

Since CPUs don't really have a human reaction time, they kinda don't care about your burst range, and can react to anything no matter what. The only reason they get hit is they tend to choose unsafe options and/or just choose to get hit. As such CPUs in particular teach very bad neutral game habits, since they get hit by lots of things humans wouldn't simply because their option choices are poor or they randomly choose not to block, and since they aren't afraid of burst range, whereas humans are. It's a bad combination, since some of the worst options against humans work well against CPUs and some of the best options against humans don't work against CPUs.

Other things to look out for:
-CPUs sometimes have insane, unrealistic smash DI.
-CPUs perfect shield reflect more than even the best human players.
-CPUs tend to be predictable and/or terrible at recovering, teaching you to cover options that humans would either never choose, or would only choose as a mixup

*Note: the above was copied and edited from a post I made in an earlier, similar thread

A good way to practice against CPU's is to set their level to 1-4 so that they don't really hit you, but so they move and you can simulate / pretend you are in particular situations and practice what you might do (which is called "shadow boxing"). Iirc this is how Dr PP trains with CPUs.
 
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OHIYO

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
17
Location
Middletown, Ohio
So is there any good way of practicing different matchups without an other person? Sorry for the n00bie questions btw
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
Asking questions is the only way you're really going to get further. As for bots, no, they're not going to really help you that much for matchups. You won't see a Pit bot use his broken potential to keep you offstage for twelve centuries, or a Fox waveshine you, so outside of practicing the technical aspect of the game bots have no real use.
 

OHIYO

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
17
Location
Middletown, Ohio
Yeah I'm just sure these questions have been asked a billion times lol, but yeah I guess I'll have to track down some more smashers near by
 

Brim

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
819
NNID
Bitterbub
Facing bots is generally only good for practicing tech skills, and for using certain skills when under pressure, just don't get too used to bot mannerisms, or you'll probably get wrecked.
 

Taytertot

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
658
Location
Seattle, WA
I'm in a similar situation where I don't have a lot of time to play people in PM and those who I do play with are more casual players. I agree with what blackrainnfire was saying about CPU's in regards to burst range and general CPU manners. I do think that seeing a CPU do something ridiculous can help you to realize potential situations, but it does seem more doubtful as to how often that will come up because of the burst range concept. If only we could add in some kind of style preference to the CPU in order to practice in a more focused manner (i.e. if you feel that campy playstyles get to you then set the CPU to a campy samus and practice useful tech skill/stage choices/moveset or movement options).
 
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