Bizarre Beliefs

[AltF4]

I usually dislike conversing in quote-reply format. But there are some separate things I'd like to say here that should remain distinct.

The soul is also only a concept and is not examinable in a controlled setting.

...

A soul cannot be examined empirically. So yeah, there are going to be guesses. I said it wasn't a "great definition" cause I'm not gonna stake my life on something that I'm not sure of.

So then in what sense can you say that you believe in it? If someone says that they believe in Santa, I at least know what they're saying to me. It would be a kind of a silly belief, but at least I know what they mean.

And here you're telling me that not only do you not know what the soul is like, but we cannot ever know. If so, I don't even know what you mean when you talk about it.

Also, I'm pretty sure you don't understand dimensions 5-9, but you still believe in them because smarter people than you tell you they exist. Lol..

I presume you're referring to String Theory? There's a lot of exciting aspects to String Theory. Exciting in the predictions it makes about the nature of the universe. Testing of the hypothesis hasn't really had much progress, however.

But more to the point, I think you misunderstand how science works. Nobody believes things "because smart people say them" in science. That's just not how it works. The very heart of science is testing hypotheses through experimentation. That's it. If you think something is true, then put it to the test. Do I think the world could use more of this? Yes.

If you think you are very confident in anything for which there is little support, then you'd be foolish.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[GOD!]

I'm not saying we can't ever know. I'm also not appealing to authority.

My whole idea about the soul is my hypothesis (at best), made up of pieces from other people's theories and hypotheses. I believe in it to a point, but I'm open to the fact that my hypothesis almost definitely will need some changing.
Maybe believe is true strong a word. It's just a lighter shade of believe. But there is no point in getting all upset about it, its a work in progress.

And I get the scientific method. As does everyone who has graduated high school (or at least that what my school system thinks).

With all ideas about unexaminable things, clarity comes with time. Things like subatomic particles and physics are still not understood, but people make better and better guesses as time goes on. I just hope that my views come closer and closer to the truth the more I learn about things, like physics, supernatural things, or the lack of them.

 

[john!]

It seems to me that GOD! is placing the soul concept within the realms of science. He is conducting "thought experiments" and trying to determine its properties. AltF4, however, designates the soul as a "belief". If GOD!'s exploration of the soul is a belief, then strictly speaking, so is our exploration of the universe, including modern chemistry and physics, and so is AltF4's belief that there is no soul.

 

[Crimson King]

EDIT: Lol at Matador. I challenge you to study into whether or not the New Testament, particularly the Gospels, and particularly what we know about Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection--and see whether or not you think it's still unsupported. Josh McDowell was challenged to do that by his Christian friends. He was eager to completely destroy Christianity once and for all. He wrote a book called More Than a Carpenter, detailing just how supported Jesus' resurrection is, and how he was converted by what proof he found. GG.

You know what's awesome? Jesus wasn't the only prophet/Messiah to be born/resurrect like he did. Horus, of ancient Egypt (ie. BEFORE Jesus was supposed to have been born) was killed by a boar after being immaculately conceived through Ishtar (Easter) via the Sun. When he died, he rose to become one with the Sun, making it both father AND son.

Mithra was crucified publicly, healed the sick, and had 12 followers. He was a well-known prophet in Rome before Jesus was.

Jesus just became a placeholder since the name was common.

 

[john!]

You know what's awesome? Jesus wasn't the only prophet/Messiah to be born/resurrect like he did. Horus, of ancient Egypt (ie. BEFORE Jesus was supposed to have been born) was killed by a boar after being immaculately conceived through Ishtar (Easter) via the Sun. When he died, he rose to become one with the Sun, making it both father AND son.

Mithra was crucified publicly, healed the sick, and had 12 followers. He was a well-known prophet in Rome before Jesus was.

Jesus just became a placeholder since the name was common.

Well I'll bite, despite the fact that this is totally off-topic. Where did you hear this information? In Horus' Wikipedia article, birth, boars, conception, and Ishtar are nowhere to be found. Similarly, there is no mention of crucifixion, healing, 12 followers, or prophecy in this article. You can question Wikipedia, but it's certainly better than not citing any sources at all. Looks like you're the one taking what you hear on faith without evidence.

 

[Pikaville]

If god does exist why does he constantly make it harder for me to believe in him?

I mean if all things happen for a reason then god isn't worthy of his power.

He hasn't even tried to make people believe in him,I mean why not just prove his existence and do something divine and obvious?

There is no point on trying to make people believe in him through faith.Look at how much trouble that causes.If he truly wanted what's best for us then he would save us from all disease and war etc.

If god came down to earth and did something incredible would everyone kinda HAVE to believe in him then?

So why doesn't he?Its like he thinks were not fully capable of handling something like that.If god was to come down to earth tomorrow and say IT IS TRUE YOU WILL ALL LIVE FOREVER IF YOU REPENT AND BELIEVE IN ME" then I could easily accept him.Maybe he could do a little better than Jesus was said to do.(water to wine....not really godly universe forging powers there now are they?)

God and religion were a good idea before the masses became fairly educated.I mean if the men of god can't have normal instinctual interactions with other women then he is practically punishing his most faithful of followers.

I personally find it nearly impossible to believe in god.It seems that if anything we are an experiment for different methods of invoking faith in sentient beings.The real people he wants to try and create and manage perfectly will come after god sees all the awful things that have happened because of his choices.

I reckon his proper race that he created all have superpowers,they probably live on solar energy too and never need to sleep.He just tries stuff on us to see how it goes 1st.

Why does god want us to believe in him through blind faith alone?

I CAN'T SEE THE LOGIC OR POINT IN THIS!

 

[CRASHiC]

You know, you don't have to attach the image of god to a religion. Nor do you have to attach religion to a god. Buddhism, one of the worlds major religions is atheist. According to them, god does not exist. There there are unaffiliated believers in a higher power such as myself and Carl Jung.

 

[Crimson King]

Well I'll bite, despite the fact that this is totally off-topic. Where did you hear this information? In Horus' Wikipedia article, birth, boars, conception, and Ishtar are nowhere to be found. Similarly, there is no mention of crucifixion, healing, 12 followers, or prophecy in this article. You can question Wikipedia, but it's certainly better than not citing any sources at all. Looks like you're the one taking what you hear on faith without evidence.

Unfortunately, winners rewrite history. Mithraism was a powerful and wide-spread religion, but Christianity uses it now as a means to say "OH, that proves Jesus was real... they just changed the name."

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.html - This is the best source I can find on Mithra. I had more sources, but they are either dead or buried, and I haven't the energy to search.

On origins of Easter: http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract1.html - this is one of the best I can find. I may have had Horus confused with Ishtar's child, but Horus was definitely crucified.

Here is some stuff on Horus:

So, what are the comparisons between Jesus and Horus? According to ReligionTolerance.org, they are the following.

Conception:
Horus: By a virgin. There is some doubt about this matter.
Jesus: By a virgin.

Father:
Horus: Only begotten son of the God Osiris.
Jesus: Only begotten son of Yehovah (in the form of the Holy Spirit).

Mother:
Horus: Meri.
Jesus: Miriam (a.k.a. Mary).

Foster father:
Horus: Seb, (Jo-Seph).
Jesus: Joseph.

Foster father's ancestry:
Horus: Of royal descent.
Jesus: Of royal descent.

Birth location:
Horus: In a cave.
Jesus: In a cave or stable.

Birth heralded by:
Horus: The star Sirius, the morning star.
Jesus: An unidentified "star in the East."

Method of death:
Horus: By crucifixion.
Jesus: By crucifixion.

Accompanied by:
Horus: Two thieves.
Jesus: Two thieves.

Unfortunately, since Religulous came out, this argument has been used a lot, and a lot of Christians decide to bash it. The site I yanked that from actually said "This can be easily debunked by reading the Gospels for accounts on Jesus' life."

The problem with these debunkings is they still require Faith. If you want more info, just PM me. I'll be updating my "Disproving Christianity" folder soon.

 

[LoganW]

i think christianity is just as ridiculous as many of these other beliefs

 

[john!]

Unfortunately, winners rewrite history... I'll be updating my "Disproving Christianity" folder soon.

Your site makes it clear that these parallels hold no merit... why did you use them?

Also, the fact that customs were carried over from other religions doesn't invalidate the religion itself. And judging by Wikipedia again, it seems Mithraism borrowed from Christianity and not the other way around... I use Wiki because they are great at citing their sources and staying unbiased. Your website doesn't have any sources at all, it just says stuff.

i think christianity is just as ridiculous as many of these other beliefs

Surely no more ridiculous as spontaneous generation/steady state theory/whatever atheists use these days to justify their beliefs?

 

[GOD!]

Unfortunately, winners rewrite history. Mithraism was a powerful and wide-spread religion, but Christianity uses it now as a means to say "OH, that proves Jesus was real... they just changed the name."

If winners rewrite history (its actually "write" history btw), then you can't trust your own sources anymore than other sources.

And I'm pretty sure that
(a) Christianity doesn't "use" anything
(b) Christianity doesn't "say" anything
(c) 99% of Christians have never even heard of Mithra.. and I bet 99% of the remaining percent don't care at all.

\
Surely no more ridiculous as spontaneous generation/steady state theory/whatever atheists use these days to justify their beliefs?

If I was scared of a god, I would make up stuff like imaginary time too.
How stunningly logical.

 

[BlargCow]

Surely no more ridiculous as spontaneous generation/steady state theory/whatever atheists use these days to justify their beliefs?

SciEnCe yeahe

 

[DippnDots]

If winners rewrite history (its actually "write" history btw), then you can't trust your own sources anymore than other sources.

And I'm pretty sure that
(a) Christianity doesn't "use" anything
(b) Christianity doesn't "say" anything
(c) 99% of Christians have never even heard of Mithra.. and I bet 99% of the remaining percent don't care at all.

A: Bible
B: Bible
C: 99% of hotdogs contain 99% christmas elves which make 99% of the toys that 99% of the world eats 99% of the time.

And rewrite made perfect sense in his post

Do tell, since the human thought process is definitely an easily examinable topic. Since no one alive currently understands anything about what consciousness actually is (besides that it developed in the lymbic system, though that explains little), one probably shouldn't make statements like these two, holding "scientific evidence" as the gold standard of all reality.

Where did i present scientific evidence? Think about it, in order for you to have a moral, stealing is wrong. You have to think about stealing, experience it, and then process your emotional reaction to it. Stealing makes me feel bad, sad, upset, angry, stealing is immoral. Or on the other end, stealing makes me feel good, accomplished, cunning, i needed to steal to survive, stealing is moral.

Perhaps one shouldn't assume I hold science as the gold standard of all reality, I have just as many issues with science as I do with christianity.

 

[GOD!]

A: Bible
B: Bible
C: 99% of hotdogs contain 99% christmas elves which make 99% of the toys that 99% of the world eats 99% of the time.

And rewrite made perfect sense in his post

Christinaity is a belief system with no motive of its own. And the bible says nothing in any way related to what he claims christianity "said."

In case you missed the point of C.... then read it again.

And "winners write history" is a saying. Just trying to let him know what the actual saying is, not trying to troll or anything..

Where did i present scientific evidence? Think about it, in order for you to have a moral, stealing is wrong. You have to think about stealing, experience it, and then process your emotional reaction to it. Stealing makes me feel bad, sad, upset, angry, stealing is immoral. Or on the other end, stealing makes me feel good, accomplished, cunning, i needed to steal to survive, stealing is moral.

Perhaps one shouldn't assume I hold science as the gold standard of all reality, I have just as many issues with science as I do with christianity.

You didn't.

You said:
"Morals come from the brain's thought process dealing with emotions, in order for you to establish a moral, or stick to a moral, you have to process the emotion you feel and then act on it."
Which is completely unsupported by anything at all.

I've never processed or experienced ****, but I know its wrong instinctively. For some people, **** might actually be pleasureable, but its wrong morally.

I just don't see a link between feelings and morality. Its something my mom would say, as feelings are the reason for living in her world.. jk, but not really.

 

[DippnDots]

The basis is logic, when I say experience that doesn't necessarily mean you have to commit or have it committed to you. Your brain can experience something that never happens ever, such is the case of a dream. Just thinking about ****, stealing, whatever, is an experience of its own, though not as harsh as the experience of it through reality. You say you know **** is wrong instinctively, that's bull****. Instincts don't tell you anything, you follow your instincts without thought. Instincts inspire action. You may immediately think **** is wrong and call it instinct, but you weren't born knowing what **** was. You had to come to know what it is, think about how ****ed up it is to establish that it's wrong, even if that thought process seemed instantaneous to you, time is infinite and no matter how quick something may seem it's also infinitely slow in a different perspective.


I can also tell that you hold morals as universal, correct me if i'm wrong, i simply gather this from what you've said and the way you've said it. Morals are completely subjective to each person. And while I cannot scientifically or religiously prove that, it's common sense. Give a million poeple a truth potion then ask them if stealing is wrong, you'll get yeses and nos, the amount of which is irrelevant, simply because the world isn't black and white and most people live in the grey area.

 

[jugfingers]

"This can be easily debunked by reading the Gospels for accounts on Jesus' life."

parallels between horus, and jesus or the other avatars that are compared to jesus actually can be very easily debunked, as any parallels that occur were added by the mystery schools hundreds of years after jesus died.

these parallels are not found in any of the actual ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs or other ancient scripture of religions were parallels are claimed.

infact there are Cash rewards for anyone who can provide a scripture predating christianity that contains a deity that was crucified/born of a virgin/resurrected etc.

acharaya s who has written books on this matter and is the reference used in zeitgeist, has been brutally debunked, by christ white and other christian truthers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWW9xJNgkcU&feature=PlayList&p=A69CD39AA62295F0&index=0&playnext=1

 

[Crimson King]

All right, this topic is becoming way too much of a debate, as is expected. Take it to the Hall.

 

[God]

i am so mad at you guys right now im not even kidding