Best way to shield pressure?

[L33thal]

Every time I try to shield pressure, I get shieldgrabbed. This really messes up my offense/momentum and I want to get better at shield pressuring. But then, I'm not sure which methods are "frame-safe" (as in you beat the opponent's grab attempt and attack faster then he/she can grab you). So far for shield pressuring, I've seen:

-Pillaring against someone's shield
-Waveshining against shield
-Westballz shield pressure
-Multishining
-JC shine SHFFLs against shield
-JC shine grabs

Which options are safe? Which are recommended (especially for someone who's just starting out)?

 

[Zenox]

Honestly focus on getting consistent with fast falling --> l cancel after hitting various parts of your opponents shield. The small variations in where you initially hit their shield can affect the timings of the l-cancel which tends to mess people up. Try practicing shffl'd aerials into shine vs 3 level 1 ICs CPUs and try to get perfect l-cancels into shines.

In terms of safety, shinegrabbing is pretty safe and is underused imo. Other than that, I'm pretty sure only multishines are safe. I know westballz pressure/pillaring/waveshining can be punished w/ shine oos. Get the fundamentals down (aerials-->shine) crisp before tying to implement the flashy stuff tbh.

Eggm has a video where he shows how he practices pressure w/ fox against a handicapped CPU. Same can be done w/ falco.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZtkuMRDtEQ

 

[Red Rice]

One of the reasons you get shieldgrabbed is because you are throwing out the aerial too early. I'm not positive on the frame data but I know people talk about how to prevent getting shield grabbed out of shield pressure by doing the aerial later. Most grabs come out frame seven or eight and doing an aerial later creates the shield stun a bit later so that they can't shield grab. However, you can still buffer rolls or do one frame moves like shine OoS

Pillaring and shine > SHFFLed nairs are pretty safe, but I think you can buffer rolls out of that

Shine grabs are one of the safest options because you can shine grab before they grab you. Worse case scenario is that they get hit by the shine and you whiff the grab and are unable to punish off the shine. I'm not sure if there's enough shield stun to prevent shining OoS though.

I should really invest in learning some frame data...

 

[SAUS]

There's no way to truly trap your opponent with some combination of moves. I think shield pressure takes a really long time to learn and it is much harder than it looks. Mindlessly attacking their shield will basically never work against good players (or at least not for long).

True shield pressure comes from ambiguity. A character standing in their shield has very limited options compared to a character that is dash dancing, or even just standing there doing nothing. Something like westballz pressure would not work at all if someone knew for certain that he was going to go for it. The reason it works is because you don't know when he might stop and do something else, and you don't know if he will do it in the first place. Essentially, the attacker has to leave the shielding player guessing. If they always make the same guess (ie shield grab), then try to provoke that response to get free punishes.

 

[L33thal]

There's no way to truly trap your opponent with some combination of moves. I think shield pressure takes a really long time to learn and it is much harder than it looks. Mindlessly attacking their shield will basically never work against good players (or at least not for long).

True shield pressure comes from ambiguity. A character standing in their shield has very limited options compared to a character that is dash dancing, or even just standing there doing nothing. Something like westballz pressure would not work at all if someone knew for certain that he was going to go for it. The reason it works is because you don't know when he might stop and do something else, and you don't know if he will do it in the first place. Essentially, the attacker has to leave the shielding player guessing. If they always make the same guess (ie shield grab), then try to provoke that response to get free punishes.

Hm, that makes sense. Yeah, I'm new to tourneys and I think one of my faults are that I try to play like Bombsoldier, an OG player that got me into Falco. Yesterday, I went to a tourney in SoCal and I just tried to be really aggro and press inputs as fast as possible but I think I got too predictable and people were beating me with tilts. I don't have much experience against other players so I can't come up with ways of getting around other people's styles and stuff.

Tech skill wise, I'd say I'm below the average Falco, meaning that I can waveshine and stuff, but I can't do multishines, OOSs, reverse shines, etc. I'm thinking about switching from using the X button to the Y button to maybe make my shining faster.

 

[LilBro]

I've seen shielding players get punished mostly by shine-grab.

 

[Zekk]

To shield pressure just do multishines or opt to grab them to get a easy follow up

 

[-Dubs]

Buffered rolls/UpSmash out-of-shield > Multishine pressure

Its good to mix up shield pressure, but shine-grab usually gets the job done.