Best Idea you will ever see for Smashballs

[Wunpee]

Intro no one cares about
Hi. I saw there was another smashballs topic but it was on the last page and no one had posted anything for about 2 weeks.

Anyway, i'm a long time lurker and I was really sad when I started to see the general consensus move away from smash balls in tournaments. I understand characters have stronger final smashes than others and other such unbalancing reasons as such, but I think this idea can incorporate smash balls into tournament level play but remain fair.
Important stuff
Currently, if I understand as such the second match is decided like so: (loser chooses stage, winner chooses character, loser chooses character)
My proposal is why not incorporate smash balls in a similar manner.

The first match is played as normal, (no items, neutral stages, blah blah blah)
Now this is how it goes in the second and 3rd match. Loser can choose stage and if he/she does the game continues as normal, or he/she can forfeit stage pick to turn on smashballs for the current round. Then the winner can choose the stage, then chooses the character, then loser chooses the character.

I think this is balanced as the concept of grabbing a smash ball is not as unbalanced as character's final smash. The person who turns on smashballs still runs the risk of having the smashball used against him/her.

heres an example:
DK vs Sonic: Sonic's FS is ridiculous. DK's not so much. The first match is completely neutral. If DK loses, obviously he wont choose the smashball route, and he'll keep his stage pick. If Sonic loses the first, he'll go the smash ball route, but DK player now has the option to choose the stage like Shadow moses, (provided thats not banned), or even change characters. Even if Sonic wins the second match because of smashballs, DK next round will be able to turn off smashballs and keep his stage pick.

The only problem I see with this system, is that even on low, smashballs appears a lot. This could possibly be alleviated so that if smashballs are turned on, some items can be turned on as well. Smoke ball, mr saturn, maybe even dragoon since you'd have to be completely dominating to get all 3 pieces(which is how final smashes should've been designed as imo).

 

[YaiYoh]

Seems kind of okay to me, but I would like to point a couple things out if it's okay.

Currently, if I understand as such the second match is decided like so: (loser chooses stage, winner chooses character, loser chooses character)
My proposal is why not incorporate smash balls in a similar manner.

The first match is played as normal, (no items, neutral stages, blah blah blah)
Now this is how it goes in the second and 3rd match. Loser can choose stage and if he/she does the game continues as normal, or he/she can forfeit stage pick to turn on smashballs for the current round. Then the winner can choose the stage, then chooses the character, then loser chooses the character.

It could work.

I think this is balanced as the concept of grabbing a smash ball is not as unbalanced as character's final smash. The person who turns on smashballs still runs the risk of having the smashball used against him/her.

True...

heres an example:
DK vs Sonic: Sonic's FS is ridiculous. DK's not so much. The first match is completely neutral. If DK loses, obviously he wont choose the smashball route, and he'll keep his stage pick. If Sonic loses the first, he'll go the smash ball route, but DK player now has the option to choose the stage like Shadow moses, (provided thats not banned)

It's banned. The picture in this Code tag is a screen of the current (I think) allowed stages in Brawl. Green's A-OK, Yellow is Teams Only and Red is "Uh-uh, I don' think so, homie!", better known as banned. (change the underlined x's to e's)

http://images.[U]x[/U]ncyclop[U]x[/U]diadramatica.com/images/3/34/TourneyStages3.png

Shadow Moses Island is banned because of the walk-off edges (I don't know, just nod and smile) and probably because of the destructible enviroments.

, or even change characters. Even if Sonic wins the second match because of smashballs, DK next round will be able to turn off smashballs and keep his stage pick.

This may work.

The only problem I see with this system, is that even on low, smashballs appears a lot. This could possibly be alleviated so that if smashballs are turned on, some items can be turned on as well. Smoke ball, mr saturn, maybe even dragoon since you'd have to be completely dominating to get all 3 pieces(which is how final smashes should've been designed as imo).

Non-Smash Ball Items are banned in just about everything nowadays. Smash Balls, I could possibly see in tourneys because they move fairly quickly around the stage and can take a beating before accepting defeat and infusing you with the power of the Smash Gods. Chances are people are still going to want them banned despite this, because Smash Balls would be the only item on the field, and would possibly show up relatively often (although in my experience the SB has only appeared once in a Low Item Brawl, and it was the only thing turned on. However, it should be noted this brawl was finished fairly quick and it may not have had time to show up anymore).

The Dragoon items could possibly work too, considering if three people have one piece each, it can be pretty hard to dominate them long enough to acquire the other two pieces.

 

[Wunpee]

well shadow moses was just an example. I dont think any stage ban is set in stone just yet. Here's an example some of the legal maps of that thread I guess. You're still DK Fox is the loser going into second match. He turns on smashballs, so now in response to his landmaster, you can counterpick luigi's mansion, pirate ship, or rainbow cruise.

 

[Wunpee]

no one has anything to say? suggestion critiques anything?

 

[Seanson]

it is putting too much chance in. theres no items for a reason, and you're thinking about adding the most powerful one...

some characters have extremely easy sure-fire ways to break smash balls which could garuntee a counterpick win.

 

[Wunpee]

Then against those characters you don't opt to turn on smashballs. That option is what keeps this idea balanced. Even if smashballs are turned on, a counterpick stage is there to counteract it. Consider the situation for the person who has the option of turning on smashballs. He's 1 game down already and if he turned on smashballs he's going to have to face his opponent on a map chosen by the opponent specifically to gimp either his final smash or his character in general. He is not even guaranteed getting the smashball, just the knowledge that his smashball is probably better than his opponents, given he turned it on in the first place.
There is no guaranteed counterpick win that i can see here.

 

[C-Dizzle]

Then against those characters you don't opt to turn on smashballs. That option is what keeps this idea balanced. Even if smashballs are turned on, a counterpick stage is there to counteract it. Consider the situation for the person who has the option of turning on smashballs. He's 1 game down already and if he turned on smashballs he's going to have to face his opponent on a map chosen by the opponent specifically to gimp either his final smash or his character in general. He is not even guaranteed getting the smashball, just the knowledge that his smashball is probably better than his opponents, given he turned it on in the first place.
There is no guaranteed counterpick win that i can see here.

But still Tourneys are about TRUE SKILL. not based on items, like someone said. there are no items for a reason. I know what you mean. It can be fair and there is a risk, But its a tourney. There should not be a risk in items expically the Smashball. I just dont think it should be in Real Tourneys. Not in like MLG or anything that is really important.

 

[Wunpee]

Are you saying there is no skill in dodging or using a final smash? There is no strategy in stage selection? The big idea behind this is that you turn the final smash into something that instant kills you no matter what you do, to something that can be avoided or countered depending on your skill with the counterpick stage you selected. Because this is keeping it fair, it adds another dimension of skill. Granted it introduces an element of randomness, but under this system, the randomness will not be the main determiner of the match. The better player will still beat the worse player.

 

[Bailey]

Just no...

 

[Dark Sonic]

Green's A-OK, Yellow is Teams Only and Red is "Uh-uh, I don' think so, homie!", better known as banned. (change the underlined x's to e's)

Wrong. Green means on random. Yellow means counterpicking only. Red means banned.

The top half of the box represents singles, while the bottom half represents teams.

 

[Wunpee]

Just no...

I really hate it when people give short one word responses to suggestions and ideas. You could have at least tried to put some effort in responding. Seriously, it contributed nothing. The only thing I gained from your post was the fact that you didn't agree with the idea. No motivations, no reasons, just that you don't like the idea.

 

[Cheerio]

It is a good idea however, the luck factor just becomes higher. You will just have many people in disagreement in this factor when it comes to anything competitive.

 

[takeurlife2]

competitive smash is supposed to be mano y mano, nothing but player vs player.

from the many many hours of brawl ive played because i have no life, ive seen that a smash ball typically decides the outcome of the match.

on last life, it's pretty easy just to run around until the ball appears, break it, and win a match not out of skill, but out of cowardice.

and about the dragoon parts... you said that "three people could each have a piece" ... erm, since when is competitive smash between three people?

 

[All_Usernames_Are_Taken]

But still Tourneys are about TRUE SKILL. not based on items, like someone said. there are no items for a reason. I know what you mean. It can be fair and there is a risk, But its a tourney. There should not be a risk in items expically the Smashball. I just dont think it should be in Real Tourneys. Not in like MLG or anything that is really important.

Yes, there are many items in Brawl that destroy any competitive nature (I'd estimate about 80% of them - banana peels and smoke balls are pure strategy, but that's for another discussion), Smash Balls are not game-makers. Reaching the smash ball, breaking it open, executing a final smash, and making sure it hits is not an easy task. Just because you haven't put forth the effort to learn the theory and skill behind a new element of the game doesn't mean it's an auto-ban.

Prematurely banning something is the scrub’s way. It prevents the scrub from ever discovering the method to smash ball tactics. It also creates artificial rules that alter the game, when it’s entirely possible that the game was just fine the way it was. This is Brawl - an entirely new game, NOT Melee 2.0 - exploding items CAN be turned off now. When players think they have found a game-breaking tactic involving smash balls, I advise them to go win some tournaments with it. If they can prove that the game really is reduced to just that tactic, then perhaps a ban is warranted.

As of now, however, you're just whining that there's new things in Brawl.

 

[Grmo]

There's some logic in this. The example make sense. But hypothesis is just too lolz for smash. That'll never work in a tournament. I mean, Sonic is faster so he could quite likely get the smash ball first. Isn't it enough that DK has to put up with the counterpick? If anything that'll only screw people over, and one person may only win because of the smash ball. Not to mention it distracts the flow of the match. Lucas just ***** smash balls with his PK Thunder too, so it's just too much. Leave smash balls off. This is only assuming that the rest of the game works out to be decent in tournaments anyway.

 

[Wunpee]

There's some logic in this. The example make sense. But hypothesis is just too lolz for smash. That'll never work in a tournament. I mean, Sonic is faster so he could quite likely get the smash ball first. Isn't it enough that DK has to put up with the counterpick? If anything that'll only screw people over, and one person may only win because of the smash ball. Not to mention it distracts the flow of the match. Lucas just ***** smash balls with his PK Thunder too, so it's just too much. Leave smash balls off. This is only assuming that the rest of the game works out to be decent in tournaments anyway.

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. Sonic gets smashballs faster but DK has to put up with the counterpick???? Did you read the idea?