best heavy starter?

[MR.GAME AND WATCH GUY]

hello i have a small issue whats the best heavy starter? i know smashers that use DK but i see no one use Bowser and i don't know is a good starter for a heavy so if someone knows kindly tell me!

 

[Tails_Glados_Puff]

I would think Ganondorf, though I'm not very familiar with heavies unless you include spacies. In that case, I'm an expert. Anyways, Bowser is a bad character, so unless you really don't care about using bad characters, don't touch him.

 

[MR.GAME AND WATCH GUY]

well..i see but im an interesting player i like low triers i enjoy playing them however i see where your comming from.

 

[R0Y]

DK or Ganondorf. Bowser is at his worst in Melee.

 

[Teriko]

Just pick one that you like playing and stick with it. You're probably going to lose with either of the characters anyway, so why pick one you don't like?



****ty slow ass chars tier list (updated for 2014)
F: Ganon
F-: DK
F--: Bowser

 

[mimgrim]

I would think Ganondorf, though I'm not very familiar with heavies unless you include spacies. In that case, I'm an expert. Anyways, Bowser is a bad character, so unless you really don't care about using bad characters, don't touch him.

Spacies aren't heavies. Falco is the 20th/21st, he's tied with Pika, heaviest character in the game and Fox is 23rd. They are just fast fallers. But fast falling is independent from weight as weight is judged by knock-back rather then fall-speed.

I had to get that out of the way.

To answer you question OP.

According to the current tier list; Captain Falcon falls at 6th/7th, tied with Link, heaviest wieghing at 104, so yea it's Captain Falcon. Next best one would Samus how is the 3rd heaviest character at 110. Then Ganondorf at 4th with 109.

Hope that helps.

 

[Scaremonger]

But fast falling is independent from weight as weight is judged by knock-back rather then fall-speed.

Weight isn't determined by knockback, it's the other way around.

 

[Alulim]

Falcon/Samus/Peach.

 

[mimgrim]

Weight isn't determined by knockback, it's the other way around.

Nice try. But no. You are wrong.

Weight is measured by knockbacked. More specifically, horizontal knockback.

Fastfalling is determined bout how fast a character moves vertically downward, i.e. how fast they fall. Otherwise it wouldn't be called fastfall.

Souces for back-up;
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Falling_speed
http://smashboards.com/threads/weight-tier-list.107239/#post-2503925

I would list M2Ks compilation he did, but it seems to have been taken down or something it looks like.

That was an awfully nice try though.

Falcon/Samus/Peach.

I wouldn't really call Peach a heavy weight since she falls under the 12/13/14 place, tied with Sheik and Zelda, at a weight of 90. It doesn't make sense to say Peach but not Sheik.

 

[Scaremonger]

Nice try. But no. You are wrong.

Weight is measured by knockbacked. More specifically, horizontal knockback.

What am I reading?

Have you actually looked at the formula for knockback? It's (((((p/10)+((p*d)/20))*(200/(w+100)*1.4)+18)*s)+b)*r

That's really awkward to format on smashboards, so here's an image:

p = percent (calculated after the attack has hit)

d = damage dealt by the attack

w = weight of the character receiving the attack

s = knockback scaling

b = base knockback

r = a value that will never be used in any tournament game involving handicaps, game difficulty (single player), and type effectiveness (which only even exists in brawl iirc).

So if weight was determined by knockback, this entire formula would be circular and impossible to calculate.

Sources for backup:

• ssbwiki knockback article
• rational thought

That's an awfully nice try, though.

 

[Bones0]

Nice try. But no. You are wrong.

Weight is measured by knockbacked. More specifically, horizontal knockback.

Fastfalling is determined bout how fast a character moves vertically downward, i.e. how fast they fall. Otherwise it wouldn't be called fastfall.

Souces for back-up;
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Falling_speed
http://smashboards.com/threads/weight-tier-list.107239/#post-2503925

I would list M2Ks compilation he did, but it seems to have been taken down or something it looks like.

That was an awfully nice try though.



I wouldn't really call Peach a heavy weight since she falls under the 12/13/14 place, tied with Sheik and Zelda, at a weight of 90. It doesn't make sense to say Peach but not Sheik.

You are pronouncing things weird and it's misleading.

You said "weight is judged by knock-back", but that doesn't make sense. Weight is a constant value attached to each character (unless you are charging a smash attack lol). Knockback is a variable, so a character's weight determines their KB, not the other way around.



ANYWAY, back to OP: You should pick up Yoshi. He's actually really heavy, and his double jump armor allows you to tank moves which sounds like the sort of thing you're going for with the whole "heavy character" trait.

 

[mimgrim]

You are pronouncing things weird and it's misleading.

Story of my life.

EDIT - But really. I just have a weird way of processing things is all. I misinterpreted the guys post that I quoted at "the other way around" part, I thought he meant it was fallspeed that did it instead. That was a my bad there.

 

[Scaremonger]

I second bones' idea, Yoshi is a fun character; he's probably my low-tier main. He has a decent weight and average falling speed, but you'll still die to fox's upsmash at 90-ish, unless you have good DI. The superarmor is good if you want to tank hits while you're recovering, yeah. The only problem is that yoshi is just a really bad character, and if people know the matchup, you're going to lose unless you're just head and shoulders outplaying them. Your recovery is awful despite the superarmor (if you lose your double jump, you're dead), and you can't jump OoS, which really makes it hard to deal with shield pressure.

It's possible to be really good with Yoshi, though, I do recommend at least trying it. If Yoshi doesn't work out, just go with Falcon or Ganondorf. Falcon will feel much heavier than Yoshi, since even though he's technically 4 units lighter, he falls way faster.

 

[Tails_Glados_Puff]

Spacies aren't heavies. Falco is the 20th/21st, he's tied with Pika, heaviest character in the game and Fox is 23rd. They are just fast fallers. But fast falling is independent from weight as weight is judged by knock-back rather then fall-speed.

I had to get that out of the way.

To answer you question OP.

According to the current tier list; Captain Falcon falls at 6th/7th, tied with Link, heaviest wieghing at 104, so yea it's Captain Falcon. Next best one would Samus how is the 3rd heaviest character at 110. Then Ganondorf at 4th with 109.

Hope that helps.

I know they're not heavies but it's common for people to use incorrect terminology. Clearly this person isn't very experienced with smash, so why bother with semantics? Spacies are often confused with heavies. Sheesh, your habit of correcting people.........

 

[lordvaati]

Ranking the default heavy characters it goes Captain Falcon>Samus>>>Link= Donkey Kong>/=Yoshi>>>Bowser.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

i'll break this down into three categories for you

tournament viable heavies:

cf, samus, ganon

heavies you will need to work hard with to make viable:

link, dk

heavies you will need to spend thousands of hours locked in your basement to make viable:

yoshi, bowser

hope this helps. be smart and choose a tournament viable heavy. ik you said you like low tiers but all the heavy low tiers are incredibly hard to play well consistently. make a compromise and choose samus or ganon at the very least!

edit: btw, these are all the heaviest characters in the game. there is at least one really good player to main these characters. so if you're looking for good heavy character players to watch, here's a list of the best players for each heavy:

cf: hax, s2j
samus: darrell, hugs
ganon: kage
link: j666
dk: green ranger
yoshi: amsa
bowser: dj nintendo

 

[Scaremonger]

I know they're not heavies but it's common for people to use incorrect terminology. Clearly this person isn't very experienced with smash, so why bother with semantics? Spacies are often confused with heavies. Sheesh, your habit of correcting people.........

It's not semantics, you're just telling him incorrect information just because he's new. Why would you do that? Misleading people just because they don't know better is not the best idea in the world. You could use your argument to justify teaching your kids that the world is flat.

 

[Jarbinks9/11]

It depends on what you are looking for when you say heavy characters. If you mean pure weight, bowser, donkey kong, samus, yoshi, ganondorf, captain falcon, and link are all heavy characters.

If you mean you want a heavyhitter, or a strong hitting character, captain falcon, ganondorf, bowser, and donkey kong are your best choices. Ganondorf is the strongest and pretty viable, whereas falcon has the best punishment, is the fastest, knee is stronger and faster than most moves in the game, and is the most viable. Dk is sorta fast and strong and somewhat viable, and bowser is very slow and not viable.

If you mean a character that can live forever or take a lot of punishment, yoshi, ganondorf, samus, and captain falcon make very good tanks. On stage falcon is very hard to kill and most of his deaths are from edgegaurds, he does not fear neing combod especially since a single knee can potentially kill. It is the same way for ganondorf, only ganon has other options aside from knee that kill and can end a stock in 2-3 knees, coupled with the fact that he is better at edgeguarding and really likes trading blows with smaller characters. Samus is really heavy and will live forever with her high weight and great recovery, but doesnt hit too hard and plays pretty campy. Yoshi is the truest tank when it comes to taking damage. He has armor on his double jump and can parry attacks, along with being very heavy. However hes very mobile and doesnt hit very hard like youd expect a heavy character.

 

[mimgrim]

I know they're not heavies but it's common for people to use incorrect terminology. Clearly this person isn't very experienced with smash, so why bother with semantics? Spacies are often confused with heavies. Sheesh, your habit of correcting people.........

Even more reason to correct someone. If they don't know much about the terminology then they should be taught it. All you are doing is harmful to them, and becomes malicious when done on purpose.

If you don't like being corrected then don't state incorrect statements, simple. You didn't see me getting my panties in a bunch when Scarmonger explained what he was talking about better, and finally knew what he meant.

Ranking the default heavy characters it goes Captain Falcon>Samus>Ganondorf>>>Link= Donkey Kong>/=Yoshi>>>Bowser.

Fixed.

 

[Jarbinks9/11]

Lol at nerds thinking yoshi is worse than garbage like dk and link. Hes no worse than mario and no more gimmicky than luigi or pikachu. Its easy for lower level players to simply say that guys like kage or abate or amsa are being carried by matchup infamiliarity or are leagues better than their opposition and are set back by their characters, but in reality you can go back and look at any of their videos and see just how far their character gimmicks get them and how much more it is their raw fundamentals that take them as far as they do. And when they lose to players like dr pp or mango you can see that its not that their characters are failing them but instead that their fundamentals just arent on that same level of the higher pros. While mus do matter, in high level play it really boils down to who converts into kills and punishes more often. The character you play only determines how hard you punish, how much easier it is to convert into a punish, and how well you can avoid being punished/ how well you can tank a punish.

Also @ op, many newer players do start out with the mentality that they want to be different and recognized as an individual. However if you play a low tier character youll miss out on a lot of things the top or mid tiers offer, such as versatility, options, and tons of other things. Youll have to decide for yourself wether or not you actually enjoy what the low tier characters offer or if its all just for the sake of being different bevause you will struggle to get very far if its the latter. Besides, there are several viable mid tier characters that are also underrepresented so id recommend one of those if you want to be an individual while also being somewhat successful.

 

[mimgrim]

Lol at nerds thinking yoshi is worse than garbage like dk and link. Hes no worse than mario and no more gimmicky than luigi or pikachu

According to the current tier list he is, not that that means everything. However it is easier to base things off of it and use it as a way to help with examples.

While I do think Yoshi is underrated and should be in A tier, the current tier list doesn't show that. I was mainly just adding ganondorf to vaati's post really. xD

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Lol at nerds thinking yoshi is worse than garbage like dk and link. Hes no worse than mario and no more gimmicky than luigi or pikachu. Its easy for lower level players to simply say that guys like kage or abate or amsa are being carried by matchup infamiliarity or are leagues better than their opposition and are set back by their characters,

oh god

yoshi is garbage bro. he is in fact worse than mario and is hella more gimmicky than luigi and pikachu. no one's saying he can't be played well, but those are just things you're going to have to accept about yoshi. ik, is hard but im hear 4 u ;.;

i don't know why you're bringing up this stuff about kage, abate and amsa.

 

[Tails_Glados_Puff]

Even more reason to correct someone. If they don't know much about the terminology then they should be taught it. All you are doing is harmful to them, and becomes malicious when done on purpose.

If you don't like being corrected then don't state incorrect statements, simple. You didn't see me getting my panties in a bunch when Scarmonger explained what he was talking about better, and finally knew what he meant.



Fixed.

The problem is that I clearly made a distinction. I said, and I quote, "I would think Ganondorf, though I'm not very familiar with heavies unless you include spacies. In that case, I'm an expert." People will, many times, call characters that feel heavy due to their falling speed heavies. Correcting them is like trying to tell someone who just started playing smash how and why to wavedash, l cancel, etc. Not everyone cares about the competitive scene, terminology, getting good, etc. I asked him the question as to whether or not he included spacies as I would later correct him. I didn't know whether or not he knew, so I wanted to make sure before correcting someone about something they already knew, as you did to me. If I thought spacies were heavies, why would I create a distinction?