Being good at the neutral game w/ C.Falcon

[Rosso]

Hello people, I've found myself often loosing the neutral vs players with good zoning and projectile game. In other words, I have trouble getting in but once in I can show some moves

Is there already a thread speaking of it? If so please refer me to it!

 

[-Fatality-]

Oh boy, this topic's a doozy, I'll probably make a lengthy write up on this tomorrow, but I'm tired and want to sleep right now.

 

[beardman315]

Oh boy, this topic's a doozy, I'll probably make a lengthy write up on this tomorrow, but I'm tired and want to sleep right now.

I would love to read about it! i just started to main falcon and i want to learn everything i can!

 

[Sakelig]

 

[BigLord]

In short, you have to practice your defensive skills, IMO. Know when to dodge, when to roll, when to shield, when to approach & shield, when to approach and roll... and when the time is right, you punish/counter.

But the thing is, I have no idea how to train for all of this, heh. Practice practice practice?

 

[Jebus244]

You just run to your opponent and shield or roll away. Do this about a hundred Times. Then start SHNairing your friggin' brains out. Run up roll away, run up SH Nair. One hundred... No, one-thousand times. Do this and you will be sure to win

 

[WaluigiWeegeeSteel]

Use your short hop n-airs and b-airs for spacing and zoning. Being fast with inputs and reads makes an amazing Falcon. Up air can be used for this purpose as well.

 

[Rosso]

Use your short hop n-airs and b-airs for spacing and zoning. Being fast with inputs and reads makes an amazing Falcon. Up air can be used for this purpose as well.

This is pretty much what I do, I also do falling up-air to mix it up but against the mighty Rosalina I fought yesterday... I got rekt! I am going to train my speed to short hop, b-air,fast fall and rince and repeat. thanks for the advice man

 

[Rosso]

You just run to your opponent and shield or roll away. Do this about a hundred Times. Then start SHNairing your friggin' brains out. Run up roll away, run up SH Nair. One hundred... No, one-thousand times. Do this and you will be sure to win

I can tell you it works well to run up and shield but the run up roll away only gave me a great advantage against people who tried to f-smash me when I dash towards them. Do you have a concrete example to illustrate its usefulness in a match vs a good zoner? Thank you all for your replies!

 

[Jebus244]

I can tell you it works well to run up and shield but the run up roll away only gave me a great advantage against people who tried to f-smash me when I dash towards them. Do you have a concrete example to illustrate its usefulness in a match vs a good zoner? Thank you all for your replies!

Mostly I was being sarcastic. Not that running up and shielding doesn't work, it's just how I'm seeing falcons, and falcon like characters get played.

 

[Rosso]

Mostly I was being sarcastic. Not that running up and shielding doesn't work, it's just how I'm seeing falcons, and falcon like characters get played.

Thanks Jebus244, thanks XD

 

[Trifroze]

Utilization of extended dash dancing helps Falcon a lot, although it's not an intuitive movement option so it'll take a lot of practice to fully implement this. Still having a lot of trouble utilizing it in many scenarios where it would've been useful if I had it hardwired. The way it works is you input a single dash, then quickly tilt the controlstick in that same direction (1 frame), and then immediately dash the other way. Continue this as long as you want and change directions whenever. Does the same job as dashing and rolling back except considerably faster, safer and for the opponent much harder to react to.

Other than that, I'm gonna be really basic here for anyone who might read this. Use bair, nair and falling uair for zoning. Bair is safe on shield and upon hit at low to mid-low %s sends the opponent sliding and gives you a dash grab or dash attack follow-up. Uair is safe on shield vs taller characters since it allows you to space it as far as possible, and true combos into every aerial Falcon has at a huge range of %s. If your uair misses or gets shielded always follow with jabs or grab depending on your opponent's punishing habits. Hell, try crossup dair sometimes. If shielded it's relatively safe and if hit, that's usually 14% plus a follow-up.

Falcon can punish most projectiles in the game from mid range, you just have to react to it or read habits and powershield -> punish option (usually jab, grab, ftilt or dtilt) or dash grab them before they get the projectile out. For example Ness, Yoshi, Lucario and Villager to name a few can't use their projectiles safely against Falcon.

Dash attacks are for opponents who are throwing constant hitboxes out with sh aerials, dash grab for basically everything else including punishing. Falcon is easily among the best characters in the game at rushing people offstage with his sliding dash grab and true combo dthrow setups into nairs, uairs and even the knee if caught with a bad DI which isn't too unrealistic considering dash grab into dthrow in its entirety can be approximately a third of a second long of an event.

Then of course we've got empty hops into grabs if your opponent gets shield happy about your aerial approaches. Keep conditioning them to do that and when they get conditioned for grabs switch back.

Aside from zoning with bair, nair and uair, defensively you've got pretty much the most useful jab in the game, a decent shield grab contrary to popular belief and a yolo fsmash and side-b for pulling back and then striking with massive range.

 

[Jacob29]

How the hell do you dash dance in this game lmao.

 

[Jebus244]

How the hell do you dash dance in this game lmao.

http://smashboards.com/threads/perfect-pivot-foxtrotting-dashdancing.371139/

 

[Jacob29]

Foxtrotting is pretty bad for Falcon though as his dash length is CRAZY long.

Also perfect pivot isn't exactly easy.

 

[Nixon Corral]

Foxtrotting is pretty bad for Falcon though as his dash length is CRAZY long.

Also perfect pivot isn't exactly easy.

Lots of tech isn't easy, but it's still worth learning.

 

[Jebus244]

Foxtrotting is pretty bad for Falcon though as his dash length is CRAZY long.

Also perfect pivot isn't exactly easy.

It's a not a perfect pivot. You do one foxtrot, then tap in the same direction then reverse foxtrot. And Fsmash out of foxtrot is incredibly strong and hard to predict.

 

[Jacob29]

I .. know.. it isn't a perfect pivot?

If your opponents are being hit by a foxtrotted fsmash I am pretty curious as to who you are playing against.

Seems like Falcon's neutral is based on a lot of short hops and bairs/nairs to try and threaten space, as opposed to running around trying to pivot here and there

 

[KentaKurodani]

The foxtrotted fsmash is a very good punish, someones opponent isn't necessarily bad to get hit by it.

 

[Jebus244]

I .. know.. it isn't a perfect pivot?

If your opponents are being hit by a foxtrotted fsmash I am pretty curious as to who you are playing against.

Seems like Falcon's neutral is based on a lot of short hops and bairs/nairs to try and threaten space, as opposed to running around trying to pivot here and there

Well perhaps you're just applying these AT's in bad situations. They don't stretch falcon's neutral game that much, but when applied right, it helps to have them more than not.

 

[Rosso]

I've learned and practiced the "new dashdance", it helps a lot to bait and punish online but I don't know how effective it would be against seasoned players offline... IMO it is worth implementing in your C. Falcon game

 

[Jebus244]

Utilization of extended dash dancing helps Falcon a lot, although it's not an intuitive movement option so it'll take a lot of practice to fully implement this. Still having a lot of trouble utilizing it in many scenarios where it would've been useful if I had it hardwired. The way it works is you input a single dash, then quickly tilt the controlstick in that same direction (1 frame), and then immediately dash the other way. Continue this as long as you want and change directions whenever. Does the same job as dashing and rolling back except considerably faster, safer and for the opponent much harder to react to.

Other than that, I'm gonna be really basic here for anyone who might read this. Use bair, nair and falling uair for zoning. Bair is safe on shield and upon hit at low to mid-low %s sends the opponent sliding and gives you a dash grab or dash attack follow-up. Uair is safe on shield vs taller characters since it allows you to space it as far as possible, and true combos into every aerial Falcon has at a huge range of %s. If your uair misses or gets shielded always follow with jabs or grab depending on your opponent's punishing habits. Hell, try crossup dair sometimes. If shielded it's relatively safe and if hit, that's usually 14% plus a follow-up.

Falcon can punish most projectiles in the game from mid range, you just have to react to it or read habits and powershield -> punish option (usually jab, grab, ftilt or dtilt) or dash grab them before they get the projectile out. For example Ness, Yoshi, Lucario and Villager to name a few can't use their projectiles safely against Falcon.

Dash attacks are for opponents who are throwing constant hitboxes out with sh aerials, dash grab for basically everything else including punishing. Falcon is easily among the best characters in the game at rushing people offstage with his sliding dash grab and true combo dthrow setups into nairs, uairs and even the knee if caught with a bad DI which isn't too unrealistic considering dash grab into dthrow in its entirety can be approximately a third of a second long of an event.

Then of course we've got empty hops into grabs if your opponent gets shield happy about your aerial approaches. Keep conditioning them to do that and when they get conditioned for grabs switch back.

Aside from zoning with bair, nair and uair, defensively you've got pretty much the most useful jab in the game, a decent shield grab contrary to popular belief and a yolo fsmash and side-b for pulling back and then striking with massive range.

Good post, however I would like to ask you to go into a little more detail on Bair. I approach with Bair, though I don't always find it to be safe on shield, what are you doing that I'm not? Does it depend on the MU?

 

[Trifroze]

Good post, however I would like to ask you to go into a little more detail on Bair. I approach with Bair, though I don't always find it to be safe on shield, what are you doing that I'm not? Does it depend on the MU?

The first frame of bair hits 14% and the lingering sourspot hits 8%, the latter isn't safe. The lingering hitbox is really just a bonus if you miss the actual hit.

The sweetspot still has to be spaced though.

 

[teluoborg]

If you want to make Bair safe you have to autocancel it, it doesn't matter if you hit with the strong or weak hit as long as you don't get ending lag. On tall characters it's actually possible to have the strong hit autocancel, but on small ones you have to go with a retreating weak hit.

I also feel that foxtrot dash dance is important for Falcon as it allows him to change directions quickly without having to jump.

You guys should also learn to buffer a dash out of everything, it's way easier to do than in Brawl.

 

[Starkiller2]

Use Falcon's movement to exert pressure without actually attacking. I can't perfect pivot (yet!), but you can do run up -> jump backwards to bait a reaction. Vary the timings for when you run in (don't run in-> jump back, run in -> jump back in an easily recognizable pattern), and also be mindful of THEIR fast/long moves. If the person is Sheik, for instance, you have to know how close is too close to get hit by her dash attack while you jump away, but you also want to stay close enough that if she decides to pull some needles you can do something about that. Overall, fakeout and stuff with movement, but watch your spacing based on projectiles and their fastest attack options.

If you are wondering how to get in on projectile users, every projectile has SOME point of vulnerability.