Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Yeah, their explanation for the ban was basically we have to stop Bayonetta before she dominates the scene and becomes too late to ban her like Brawl MK.
No, it's more like arresting someone for having many ties to ISIS and finding some evidence for a plan. We know Bayonetta is broken, we've seen evidence multiple times. Her neutral is very, very hard to punish, she has almost guaranteed 0 to deaths, witch time, a very good recovery.. how is she balanced at all? Once Bayonetta was figured out, I lost most of my motivation to play at a high level. I don't want to play against something like that, it's not fun. And that's what makes a character toxic.
Yea, most upsmashes are gonna lose to lingering nair or bair though.
When she LANDS, Bair doesn't linger aside from small explosions for the gun.
xP
The difference is no one is trying to ban Ryu.
I mean, characters stronger than Ryu have since been nerfed. The playing field in that 1 year for Ryu is not the same playing field in the 2 months with Bayonetta.
Alternatively,
I mean, if I did something similar with Diddy, people would correctly tell me my results are being skewed due to ZeRo, would they not? Or if I did so with Sheik, people would correctly bring up Mr. R, Void, etc, yes?
Taken from -Ran of /r/smashbros
It's hopelessly naive to assume that a skeleton team is going to push a patch any sooner just because there currently exists a vocal subset that want her out of the game's competitive meta and there is no way to properly gauge how far that will reach. It took over a year to make Sheik less stupid than she originally was. A case can be made that 1.1.5. exists simply as a courtesy for parameters regarding DLC characters that they couldn't possibly predict upon release. Balancing is not easy, and it's not as fast as you make it out to be. Bayonetta isn't easily fixed just by nerfing Witch Twist and Divekick even though that would hamper her punish game quite a bit. We're talking meticulous, deliberate changes here, especially for a character like Bayonetta - and chances are plenty other characters would be reviewed in the process of a patch that the community desperately wants to exist, not to decrease insane values like Sheik/Diddy (because these characters never really lost their strengths in neutral), but to decrease the effectivity of one character's entire game plan.
Nitpicknitpick, there is a scheduled maintenance tonight. 1.1.6 hotfix?
I'm not entirely sure what you're expecting from him.
If it's Wii U only maintenance like Buddhahobo says then I'm not expecting it, though I generally don't actively try expecting them in general because first you have to pray for there to be a change, and then you have to pray that the changes aren't a crapshoot. Your second sentence definitely ties into my point in all this. For all we know the game might not even get another patch until the rumored NX port happens, and since Sakurai's team are never in the habit of even releasing specific patch notes I kind of doubt that they will ever openly come out stating "balance patches are now over". Splatoon seems to be the only game where Nintendo actually treat them with some care, even talking about them in Directs.Nitpicknitpick, there is a scheduled maintenance tonight. 1.1.6 hotfix?
Actually, nobody truly knows how much the dev team is still working in the game.
I like how Ally, who is probably the most outspoken Bayonetta detractor out of the top pros, actually says that her not being banned yet is "good". Makes me wonder if his constant "ban Bayonetta" tweets were just frustration or deliberate pot stirring.
You can never really tell when Ally is serious or not on social media. He ****posts a lot.
I think he is cool, people do like joking.
Tonight's maintenance doesn't mention anything about which games will be affected. I do know that Nintendo Badge Arcade will be undergoing some maintenance tomorrow though.Nitpicknitpick, there is a scheduled maintenance tonight. 1.1.6 hotfix?
Actually, nobody truly knows how much the dev team is still working in the game.
I don't get why people assume a character is going to get better over time. Usually when a new character is introduced they'll either A) Get better because people will discover ways to realize their potential B) Get worse because people will figure out the best way to deal with their threats, or C) Stay pretty much the same. We have no way of knowing how a character will progress until time has passed.
Yes, Greninja can escape pretty easily with a shadow sneak. Game and Watch can also insta-kill her during afterburner kick with an up-b. Diddy and ROB can disrupt the ABK with their items. Rosa has luma to help her escape combos, and can punish with an uair.
Sonic also makes Witch Time a liability due to the nature of his many multi hit moves, and his great grab game works against her. He's probably not going to be able to reliably challenge Bayonetta's recovery and will have problems landing but Sonic fills a nice niche as far as a reasonable matchup goes.
Almost. Guaranteed. Uh... That means it's not guaranteed then if you're going to add "almost".
Sorry, but I already linked that Spain claiming Bayo ban were actually not official.
Playing as Pikachu against Bayonetta really limits your combo potential because Bayonetta can Witch Time in between your Utilts and Uairs. This usually results in having to opt for very safe, very short combos (which don't actually deal all that much). Luckily Fair and Nair will clank with Bayonetta's Fsmash if you do happen to get Witch Timed.
Some benefits Pikachu has is that he is small and immune to Bullet Climax. Thunder Jolt is pretty good for camping and might force a aerial special which will give you time to punish when she lands.
Sorry to nit pick but no multi hit moves can reliably punish WT. The bayo player always has time to do something before another hitbox comes out.
The biggest difference here is probably Bayonetta's late addition. Had Rosalina been the final DLC character and taken a place up in S immediately, we may have seen talking of banning her as well.
This is what bothers me the most. I've seen tons of videos on how to avoid death combos and SDI out of witch twist and DI her combo starters and yet i still see tons of complaints about her getting easy death combos. That's not even taking into account character specific ways to invalidate ladder combos or even kill bayonetta mid combo.
That's easy to explain. the vocal part of the community that want her banned are not players. it's usually people on reddit that don't even shot up at locals whining all day. the problem is when we listen to those people
Agreed. This is why everyone in this thread needs to just relax. If we really believe that Bayonetta can be taken down, let others figure that out. The outspoken rage and insults are just wholly unnecessary. People act like some community existing that prefers FFA + items is going to somehow bring down the empire of competitive Sm4sh. If Spain feels that banning Bayonetta is better for its community, so be it. The rest of us can just work on demonstrating viable counters/responses. Assuming we're right, they'll come around.
Since the damn beginning I've said we're discussing the ban, and presenting the collective reasons why we believe she has to be banned.
Wrong, it's because the character is so different and so impactful from what we've been playing for 1.5 years that she is forcing a meta shift as she redefines which characters are tournament viable and which aren't. Nobody likes meta shifts when the game has been out for so long. Also people like to complain, welcome to the internet.
So when someone loses to Bayo he needs to adapt and play better, but when someone wins against Bayo it's a proof that she isn't broken ? That's the most biased analysis of a tournament I've ever seen. And I've been reading the competitive impressions thread.
Don't forget that 1-the MK ban only lasted a year and was only operative in the US, 2-MK was a totally different case that worked on a completely different paradigm (if anything Brawl MK would be more similar to smash 4 Sheik) so stop talking about what you don't know and 3- part of the playerbase will get alienated no matter the decision.
Well then stop responding to it and try responding to the arguments that make sense, like "her risk/reward is completely overwhelming" or "she can easily circumvent her supposed weak points".
Hum about the item part, do you mean that Rob/Diddy can drop their item during the combo to interrupt it ? And about Rosa is the Luma interrupt reliable ?
