Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[MissingGlitch]

I think indie characters being playable in smash is something that won't happen any time soon. Just because of where they stand in the industry. They aren't "the big boys" and Nintendo still has plenty of triple A characters they can choose from. I'm amazed they got a bit of exposure in smash as it is.

 

[TheAnvil]

WayForward is a indie company and is much smaller company than Nintendo so they would probably allow Nintendo to put Shantae in the roster with very little cost if they had the option too.

I'm sure a lot of companies would pay Nintendo to have their character in Smash, it's great advertisement. That doesn't mean that Nintendo would be interested. She's very very lucky to have as much as a spirit in Smash.

 

[Nazyrus]

I think indie characters being playable in smash is something that won't happen any time soon. Just because of where they stand in the industry. They aren't "the big boys" and Nintendo still has plenty of triple A characters they can choose from. I'm amazed they got a bit of exposure in smash as it is.

yeah i think we were lucky to get shovel knight as an AT, like luckier than we all thought lol

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Considering how badly Ziplash did even with an exclusive amiibo and Nintendo saying if the game didn't perform the series would die, I think it's pretty safe to say Chibi Robo is probably not going to be a part of the pass.

True, though in my experience Chibi-Robo has been this underdog of a series. Every time you think it's gone for good it suddenly comes back. It keeps sticking around; I wouldn't be surprised if it actually happened

 

[hinode]

There's far more to indie games than just Shantae and Shovel Knight going forward, even if people here seem to tunnel vision onto just those two for some reason. Hollow Knight, for one, has sold 2.8 million copies across all platforms so far and is on Nintendo's top ten best selling eshop Switches list. It has a sequel announced already, which got a ton of attention amongst the hardcore gaming community when it was announced - look at the upvote and comment totals on r/games. Obviously the super low price tag helped here, but that's still bigger numbers than any Mega Man or Castlevania has ever sold before factoring in compilation rereleases. That's beyond amazing for the debut title from an indie company.

There are genuine breakout hits coming out from indie companies nowadays, ones that pull numbers that are actually quite respectable compared to all the biggest AAA single-player games, and unlike most AAA titles they actually get released for Switch. I doubt anyone gets in for Ultimate's DLC cycle, but looking forward to Smash 6 or Smash 7, I think there's a very real chance that someone in the vein of Shovel Knight/Hollow Knight/etc. will have enough popularity and legacy to get in without needing to fill some non-existing "indie rep" quota. But the counterpoint to this is that in a world where genuine breakout indie hits exist, I don't see any serious chance for a indie character who still sells at cult levels at best meriting serious consideration. And no, debuting in a GBC game that sold something like 5000 copies worldwide does not compensate for this, at all.

 

[Organization XIII]

True, though in my experience Chibi-Robo has been this underdog of a series. Every time you think it's gone for good it suddenly comes back. It keeps sticking around; I wouldn't be surprised if it actually happened

I'd be real surprised to see him in Smash. If anything they'd try another game first. Which they should as basing the series on Ziplash was like asking someone to run a marathon and then cutting their legs off. But for Smash there are more popular characters in a similar situation and lots of characters from series that aren't in trouble left as well. I'd love to see the little guy finally get the love he deserves but I'm pretty sure that Mii costume is as far as he goes.

 

[MissingGlitch]

What Chibi-Robo needs is a remaster or a proper sequel. because I really don't know what Nintendo was thinking with making a bunch of franchises into side-scrollers on the 3DS.

 

[Organization XIII]

It's not even Chibi Robo it's Skip LTD in general that needs a W. Seriously the company makes really great games but they just never sell.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Of course Sakurai has a prejudice or something towards the west, 5 games and a single assist trophy(instead of Shovel Knight being a playable character, he's shoved into an assist trophy and then Inceneroar and another Marth are added instead) that says a whole-hell of a lot. And name me this western content(stuff currently owned by a western dev) that's not Shovel Knight or those stupid stickers(K.Rool and Dark Samus are currently owned by Nintendo.) And of course he'll get them if they are wanted, but as it's showing, they are not wanted.

If Sakurai was prejudiced towards the West, he wouldn't love Minecraft as much as he seemed to in his article, saying he doesn't usually go back to games he's completed (yes, you can't really complete Minecraft but I assume he means he's played it a lot before/he beat the Ender Dragon). There are other Western games he's played as well, such as Undertale, and if he was truly prejudiced then Shovel Knight would've just been a Spirit alongside Shantae if he bothered adding them at all (and I really don't see why either of them would've been the first Western-owned character, anyway). K. Rool and Dark Samus, while they are owned by Nintendo, were made by Western developers, so if he had any real Western prejudice then he would've probably been reluctant to add them or even ignore Western fans who wanted them alongside the outcry for Ridley (of course some Japanese fans wanted them as well, but for Ridley in particular he specifically mentioned Western fans).

As I said, he also considered Banjo-Kazooie for Melee, knew fans saw them as a natural inclusion, and he said there were would be legal difficulties involved with trying to get them (because of the Microsoft buyout; also, even when with Nintendo, they weren't fully-owned by them). Nowadays it seems there wouldn't be much of a problem, so if there's anything holding back Western characters then it's simply because of there being more Japanese gaming icons (as is the reason Pac-Man and Mega Man obviously got in before any Western character, and Castlevania was highly requested and is iconic itself), or maybe even Sakurai being afraid of potential translation issues (though this seems unlikely given how he acted at E3).

Maybe he prefers some characters over others, sure, but that ain't prejudice, and he still takes fans' desires into account. If B-K did well on the Ballot and Sakurai is considering adding a Western character, then they would be very likely. He may not even see it like choosing Western or Japanese characters and actually considering that, just picking whatever character he thinks should be in.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Considering how badly Ziplash did even with an exclusive amiibo and Nintendo saying if the game didn't perform the series would die, I think it's pretty safe to say Chibi Robo is probably not going to be a part of the pass.

Don’t remind me of that bull****. They keep trying to force Chibi Robo into these weird poorly made titles like Photo Finder and Ziplash. I understand the original Chibi Robo wasn’t exactly a hit, but they were basically never going to sell him to the fan base when they were so far removed from what a lot of us enjoyed in the original, and especially when the new games were just so poorly made...

He deserved better, and I really hope he makes it into Smash some day.

 

[Mr. Stagg]

If Sakurai was prejudiced towards the West, he wouldn't love Minecraft as much as he seemed to in his article, saying he doesn't usually go back to games he's completed (yes, you can't really complete Minecraft but I assume he means he's played it a lot before/he beat the Ender Dragon). There are other Western games he's played as well, such as Undertale, and if he was truly prejudiced then Shovel Knight would've just been a Spirit alongside Shantae if he bothered adding them at all (and I really don't see why either of them would've been the first Western-owned character, anyway). K. Rool and Dark Samus, while they are owned by Nintendo, were made by Western developers, so if he had any real Western prejudice then he would've probably been reluctant to add them or even ignore Western fans who wanted them alongside the outcry for Ridley (of course some Japanese fans wanted them as well, but for Ridley in particular he specifically mentioned Western fans).

As I said, he also considered Banjo-Kazooie for Melee, knew fans saw them as a natural inclusion, and he said there were would be legal difficulties involved with trying to get them (because of the Microsoft buyout; also, even when with Nintendo, they weren't fully-owned by them). Nowadays it seems there wouldn't be much of a problem, so if there's anything holding back Western characters then it's simply because of there being more Japanese gaming icons (as is the reason Pac-Man and Mega Man obviously got in before any Western character, and Castlevania was highly requested and is iconic itself), or maybe even Sakurai being afraid of potential translation issues (though this seems unlikely given how he acted at E3).

Maybe he prefers some characters over others, sure, but that ain't prejudice, and he still takes fans' desires into account. If B-K did well on the Ballot and Sakurai is considering adding a Western character, then they would be very likely. He may not even see it like choosing Western or Japanese characters and actually considering that, just picking whatever character he thinks should be in.

Again, most of these debates and arguments for and against some characters miss the core factor that decides their inclusion. Do they work as a Smash Bros fighter? In this case, does it have Stage presence and music to use along with the ability to make a character fit the aesthetics. If so, then they are likely. If a character does not have all 3 of these things, then their chances are either low or nonexistent. All the extra stuff like relevance, game sales, and Japanese origin is either pointless fluff or inconsequential points that can be tacked onto a character to arbitrarly raise or lessen their chances. Some do matter, but not that much.

 

[egaddmario]

I've been poking around, lurking in this thread for a bit since Polar said they might happen. I never played Banjo Kazooie growing up but had a number of friends who did. I think it's sad that they used to be Nintendo characters but because of legal reasons aren't anymore- you can definitely tell they had that Nintendo charm to them. I would welcome them into Ultimate if they ever came.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

On the topic of Smash 6,

I think Waluigi will be the next King K Rool.

 

[TheAnvil]

On the topic of Smash 6,

I think Waluigi will be the next King K Rool.

Ultimate is technically Smash 6, but I think Waluigi could be in the 2nd pass if there is a 2nd pass.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

No, I think trophies are hard deconfirm, and I think spirits are too, if they are in their primary form.

The only way I can see an assist trophy or a spirit making the jump to playable as DLC for this game is if Sakurai announces before the potential second fighter pass the these types of characters are now suddenly eligible.

 

[LogFrog]

Speaking of spirits, does anyone else find it odd that Rayman only has one spirit? You'd think they'd have at least Globox and Barbara spirits considering they were trophies in Smash 4. Shantae was at least lucky enough to get two spirits. And no, the Rabbids from the Mario + Rabbids game don't count.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Are Rabbids by them self a spirit?

 

[SneakyLink]

Speaking of spirits, does anyone else find it odd that Rayman only has one spirit? You'd think they'd have at least Globox and Barbara spirits considering they were trophies in Smash 4. Shantae was at least lucky enough to get two spirits. And no, the Rabbids from the Mario + Rabbids game don't count.

Rayman doesn’t even get to be an online profile icon. How are people supposed to show their appreciation?

 

[LogFrog]

Are Rabbids by them self a spirit?

There are 3 Rabbids as spirits: Rabbid Mario, Rabbid Peach, and Rabbid DK.

 

[Lycan Rex]

Did Phil Spencer specify banjo being a playable fighter in smash? Or just being in smash generally speaking?

I had a terrible thought of banjo being a costume or spirit and Phil's like: "Hey, I kept my promise. He's technically in smash!"

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

More proof Banjo is important to Nintendo history: It's VERY rare that a third party game gets a whole system bundle from Nintendo

Unless I'm missing something, I think the only other exception was the Fortnite Switch bundle?

 

[SneakyLink]

More proof Banjo is important to Nintendo history: It's VERY rare that a third party game gets a whole system bundle from Nintendo

Unless I'm missing something, I think the only other exception was the Fortnite Switch bundle?

View attachment 206252

I think there was a Skylanders Wii U bundle at one point...?

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

I think there was a Skylanders Wii U bundle at one point...?

Yeah you're right, I forgot Nintendo did a collab with them for DK and Bowser

 

[SneakyLink]

Yeah you're right, I forgot Nintendo did a collab with them for DK and Bowser

Actually, the bundle was for a game that came before the Bowser/DK figures...

...although I remembered it also had Nintendo Land included so not completely Third Party

 

[Organization XIII]

No, I think trophies are hard deconfirm, and I think spirits are too, if they are in their primary form.

The only way I can see an assist trophy or a spirit making the jump to playable as DLC for this game is if Sakurai announces before the potential second fighter pass the these types of characters are now suddenly eligible.

He would have to announce they were suddenly ineligible before needing to announce they are eligible

 

[Cap'n Jack]

There are 3 Rabbids as spirits: Rabbid Mario, Rabbid Peach, and Rabbid DK.

So that’s a no

 

[Mr. Stagg]

More proof Banjo is important to Nintendo history: It's VERY rare that a third party game gets a whole system bundle from Nintendo

Unless I'm missing something, I think the only other exception was the Fortnite Switch bundle?

View attachment 206252

Can't forget the commercials Japan made for the series. If Nintendo didn't care, they wouldn't advertise it this hard.

 

[egaddmario]

No, I think trophies are hard deconfirm, and I think spirits are too, if they are in their primary form.

The only way I can see an assist trophy or a spirit making the jump to playable as DLC for this game is if Sakurai announces before the potential second fighter pass the these types of characters are now suddenly eligible.

Trophies definitely aren't hard deconfirms- Mewtwo and Lucas had trophies pre-DLC in Samsh 4

 

[TheAnvil]

No, I think trophies are hard deconfirm, and I think spirits are too, if they are in their primary form.

The only way I can see an assist trophy or a spirit making the jump to playable as DLC for this game is if Sakurai announces before the potential second fighter pass the these types of characters are now suddenly eligible.

Trophies never ruled out Lucas or Mewtwo on the previous game...

More proof Banjo is important to Nintendo history: It's VERY rare that a third party game gets a whole system bundle from Nintendo

Unless I'm missing something, I think the only other exception was the Fortnite Switch bundle?

View attachment 206252

There was a goldeneye bundle too.

 

[Organization XIII]

More proof Banjo is important to Nintendo history: It's VERY rare that a third party game gets a whole system bundle from Nintendo

Unless I'm missing something, I think the only other exception was the Fortnite Switch bundle?

Am I misunderstanding or are you saying Banjo was third party when he got a system bundle? Because he wasn't. Also, I'm not sure how rare it is for third parties to get bundles as Minecraft had that DS bundle and Diablo got a Switch bundle.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

How I currently feel about the DLC:

1. Joker
2. Banjo or Steve
3. Erdrik or Slime
4. A lower-placing Smash Ballot runner up, but a first party character (Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Chibi-Robo, Captain Toad, and Paper Mario specifically come to mind)
5. Pokemon Sword and Shield Promo representative

Three third party characters and two Nintendo IPs

I could see this but not with Captain Toad. Literally his entire gimmick is “I don’t jump”, so you either fundamentally compromise Smash gameplay to put him in, or you flat-out ruin what makes him unique. No offense to Captain Toad fans (I enjoy the games) but he makes negative sense in Smash

 

[JonSmash]

I always wondered why Xbox never made Banjo-Kazooie a xbox skylanders exclusive character just felt like something they should of done IMO

(also whats the canon for crash ? he met the original spyro in the GBA games & then he met the pug looking spyro in skylanders ? are they 2 diffrent spyros ? )

 

[TheZoologist]

Am I misunderstanding or are you saying Banjo was third party when he got a system bundle? Because he wasn't. Also, I'm not sure how rare it is for third parties to get bundles as Minecraft had that DS bundle and Diablo got a Switch bundle.

I think what he's getting at is that even though Banjo & Kazooie are third party characters now, the Banjo-Kazooie games were such staples of Nintendo and were so greatly promoted that they actually warranted their own N64 bundle. It shows how important they were during the Nintendo 64 days and why they should hopefully finally make it home to Smash Bros. where they truly belong!

 

[KingMinjo91]

Did Phil Spencer specify banjo being a playable fighter in smash? Or just being in smash generally speaking?

I had a terrible thought of banjo being a costume or spirit and Phil's like: "Hey, I kept my promise. He's technically in smash!"

"I think it would be cool if Banjo was in the next SSB DLC"

I dont think you have to worry about him meaning anything other than playable. Now, him not being able to make it happen is another story. But I choose.... to believe.

 

[LogFrog]

(also whats the canon for crash ? he met the original spyro in the GBA games & then he met the pug looking spyro in skylanders ? are they 2 diffrent spyros ? )

It’s hard to say, but there might actually only be one Spyro since Aku Aku refers Spyro to Crash as his “old friend” meaning they’ve met before in the GBA crossover games. However, there is also confusion on whether Crash and Spyro always took place in the same universe since Cortex and Ripto team up with seemingly no explanation and them knowing about each other.

Spyro has appeared in two other Crash games as a cameo in Twinsanity and a racer in the GBA version of Crash Nitro Kart. In Spyro: The Eternal Night, there’s an easter egg that shows Crash frozen in ice funnily enough.

 

[TheAnvil]

I could see this but not with Captain Toad. Literally his entire gimmick is “I don’t jump”, so you either fundamentally compromise Smash gameplay to put him in, or you flat-out ruin what makes him unique. No offense to Captain Toad fans (I enjoy the games) but he makes negative sense in Smash

They take a lot of creative liberty with characters in Smash. And his lack of a jump could easily be represented by giving him a very weak air game/recovery.

 

[dlewis53]

Hey, guys. Just out of curiosity, what characters would you say you're the best/worst at?

Mine are:

Best: King K. Rool, Ridley, and the Belmonts.
Worst: Sheik

 

[hinode]

Since you guys don't seem to be aware, Nintendo originally held the trademark for Banjo-Kazooie while Rare owned the DK64 new characters. As part of the buyout, the rights to these characters were swapped. That means Banjo was technically first party at the time.

If that exchange sounds imbalanced to you, remember that Nintendo was also getting $375 million as part of the deal.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Since you guys don't seem to be aware, Nintendo originally held the trademark for Banjo-Kazooie while Rare owned the DK64 new characters. As part of the buyout, the rights to these characters were swapped. That means Banjo was technically first party at the time.

If that exchange sounds imbalanced to you, remember that Nintendo was also getting $375 million as part of the deal.

Oh were aware of it, It's been discussed many times before.

 

[maf91186]

Just gonna throw this out there. Who seems more likely for Smash 6? Not Ultimate, Smash 6.

-A character who is massively popular, is practically loved by Nintendo, may have only one game but said game sold around 2 mil, has his own line of amiibo, and was an Assist Trophy in Ultimate, alongside 5 spirits to represent his franchise

-A character who is decently popular, has 4 games, each on a Nintendo console (with 2 of them being exclusive to the eShop and DSiWare), with all 4 games selling fairly poorly, with the most recent game only breaking 100k, and has 2 spirits in Ultimate

Banjo and Kazooie