Balanced character, F.D. and Demo map patch (BSSB64 mod)

[JoGooD]

Welcome to the balanced character thread

If you have any suggestion or codes, please share in this tread !

(I know about the PSA project, but it seems dead and there is no patch or official...)

I'm about to make a patch with more balanced character (samus, link, luigi, jiggly puff, nes, maybe mario and DK).

My goal is to make an official revised version of smash 64 that is not too different from the original game and playable online with little more balanced character, this meaning to bring them in the range of Pika, Kirby and Fox but not better.

I've added Final Destination and another map (metal mario for now) instead Mushroom kingdom and planete zebes.
I've removed all random stuff (tornado, wind, air wings, saffron city door) and get 5 stock, unlock all, team attack, no item as default value (and maybe preloaded item value on item menu).
I'd also like to do something with peach's castle map, maybe move or remove the bumper and also get the two triangle things out (or somewhere else).

I've done some NES ASM code, but I'm new to N64 coding.

Please answer that survey !

Result:

Most people want Samus, Link, Luigi, Ness, Jiggly puff and DK to be slightly balanced.
-For now, I'm working on Nes

I'll switch the following maps:
Zebes=Metal mario
M.Kingdom=Final Destination
Sector Z=Battlefield

And try to fix the moving platform in peach's castle to be grab.

I've decided to make two version of the game.

I'll name this project:

BSSB64 mod

Any help will be appreciate !
You can send me your skype if you want to contact me and make a chat room and/or if if you want the cheat file.

Suggestion:

I need you to help me with balancing character, think that a character movement should be revised ? Go ahead and share what you think !

- Make larger window (or something invisible) to the green things at the right part of hyrule
- Toggle hitbox display in game
- Ness UP+B revised
- colour over lay option on hitstun, to practice combos and SDI, kinda like what the 20xx training pack does.
- Replace Sector Z
- Stage select screen swap
- take out the intro
- New Start Screen

Later:

- Demo stage revised
- Polygon stage (Battle field) revised
- Saffron city revised
- Dream land beta 1&2 revised

Update section:

1.1(16/12/2014):

.doc list here:

Nes recovery (+12,5%)

8015500B 0054

Yoshi no cloud

D00A4D09 0005
800A4D09 000C

Zebes = Metal mario

D00A4D09 0003
800A4D09 000D

Mushroom kingdom = Final Destination (no items, bad spawn) (Credit: Mr Bland)

D0099113 0018
80099113 0019
D00A4D09 0010
81104C14 2002
D00A4D09 0010
81104C16 000E
D00A4D09 0008
800A4D09 0010

1.0 (15/12/2014): For now I'll be working on balanced character codes, map and testing because the cheat files (Project64.cht) can easily be shared. I've just figured out that dream land beta 1 and 2 don't work when player 2 (or more) die. Anyone found how to set this up ? (respawn position ?) Also, items don't spawn in FD and demo, I'm not sure if I wanna work on that by the way.

Code:

Here are the code I got:

https://fr.scribd.com/doc/254000754/Smash-64-GS-list

PM me your skype if you want the Project64.cht file

Dream land beta 1 and 2 crash when P2 (or more) die.
Note that Random stage will open the stage you added !

These are not updated...

Airwings, tornado, wind, door off (Credit: Madao)
81131438 0000
8113140C 0000
81131410 00FF


Yoshi no cloud

D00A4D09 0005
800A4D09 000C

Zebes = Metal mario

D00A4D09 0003
800A4D09 000D

Mushroom kingdom = Final Destination (no items, bad spawn) (Credit: Mr Bland)

D0099113 0018
80099113 0019
D00A4D09 0010
81104C14 2002
D00A4D09 0010
81104C16 000E
D00A4D09 0008
800A4D09 0010


Unlock all, stock 5, Team Attack

810A4938 0FF0
800A4937 00FF

800A4D0F 0004

800A4D11 0001


Samus:

Don't lose her charge after hit, Higher UP+B, Charge faster, mini bombs don't make lose her jump (Credit: Madao)

8115D348 2400
8115DEC6 429A
8015D5CF 0010
8115E1C4 2400
8115E2F4 2400

Link:

Higher UP+B (Credit: Madao)

8116438A 42AC

Nes:

Better recovery +12,5% (Credit: Madao)

8015500B 0054

OLD CODE:

Mushroom kingdom => ??

D0099113 0018
80099113 0019
D00A4D09 0010
81104C14 2002
D00A4D09 0010
81104C16 000E
D00A4D09 0008
800A4D09 00??

10 - Final Destination
0B - Demo lvl
0D - Metal mario
0E - Polygon battlefield
09 - Dream land B1
0A - Dream land B2
0F - Race

Answered questions:

But before getting into it, can I just get an hex editor, find the value with my gameshark's codes and change it, so it becomes default value ? And will it work for stuff like tornado or I should have to find how to disable it (as it may load the tornado value when stage loaded).
Then can I use PPF to get the patch from my new edited rom and share ?

Madao:

Some things are easy to patch, while others are not. Pretty much anytime you're freezing values, you have to come up with creative ways to implement it in a rom hack. So stage swapping is not trivial to hack. I haven't tried patching mr bland's code in a rom though, so maybe it can work. I think removing stage hazards shouldn't be too hard, but stage editing will take a lot of work since no one has really discovered much about stage data. All you can really do, for stage hacks, is experiment with those gameshark codes and write down your findings.

Good news is, changing character stats and hitbox data is possible. So those codes like Higher Up B for Link are easy to implement.

For patching, PPF is good. Anyway, I'll try refreshing my memory some more by doing more testing again.

 

[Sedda]

pretty cool

 

[BananaBolts]

While I agree with Sedda's sentiment, I'd hate to get too familiar with a revised version of SSB and then suck at the original. I understand that the changes can be made minimal but any change will result in reprogramming of my muscle memory and stage memory. I think I'll stick with my vanilla ice cream. Good luck with the project, regardless.

 

[Annex]

Switch Ness and Pikas upb's along with those other changes and we're GOLDEN baby
Maybe replace some moves that are literally never used like pk fire, jiggs dtilt, dks dash atk, etc. Not being able to use dks fthrow against good players kinda sucks too

 

[Madao]

Finally, someone who's actually willing to put in work. I've been wanting to do a patch, but I just have too much to do, and patching is too tedious imo.

First of all, when editing the rom, don't forget to update the crc. Also changing the crc has a side effect with jabo 1.6 (it's the plugin's fault though).

Some things are easy to patch, while others are not. Pretty much anytime you're freezing values, you have to come up with creative ways to implement it in a rom hack. So stage swapping is not trivial to hack. I haven't tried patching mr bland's code in a rom though, so maybe it can work. I think removing stage hazards shouldn't be too hard, but stage editing will take a lot of work since no one has really discovered much about stage data. All you can really do, for stage hacks, is experiment with those gameshark codes and write down your findings.

Good news is, changing character stats and hitbox data is possible. So those codes like Higher Up B for Link are easy to implement.

For patching, PPF is good. Anyway, I'll try refreshing my memory some more by doing more testing again. @ Kahnu can make a skype chat where we can discuss more.

 

[Kahnu]

aye ight im all over this *****

 

[JoGooD]

BananaBolts: While I agree with Sedda's sentiment, I'd hate to get too familiar with a revised version of SSB and then suck at the original

Yeah, that's why I wanna make a more official balanced mod. I've use those code to set up at home with friends, but it's kind of pointless if it's only at home and nobody else play this way. I think it's a good way to promote the game and maybe get some more players as I find this one to be the very best SSB of all (and it's not because I played this version first, I played melee way before)

Annex: Switch Ness and Pikas upb's along with those other changes and we're GOLDEN baby
Maybe replace some moves that are literally never used like pk fire, jiggs dtilt, dks dash atk, etc. Not being able to use dks fthrow against good players kinda sucks too

I'm not sure about switching attack (and I won't get official characters less efficient if that's what you mean?). Giving Ness a better UP+B would be great for sure but I think it's better leaving the official B move (tilt,dash, etc could maybe be upgraded but lot of works), I don't want characters look the same after all. Thanks for the tip, I'll look at those !

Madao: First of all, when editing the rom, don't forget to update the crc. Also changing the crc has a side effect with jabo 1.6 (it's the plugin's fault though).

Not sure what it is, but I'll check it out, Thanks for the advice.

Also, I've found that I don't see the invincible frame at respawn, why so ? I've tried many US ! rom and PJ64 emulator on different computer... does this happens to everyone?

I've just figured out that dream land beta 1 and 2 don't work when player 2 (or more) die. Anyone found how to set this up ? (respawn position ?) Also, items don't spawn in FD and demo, I'm not sure if I wanna work on that by the way.

 

[Madao]

Not sure what it is, but I'll check it out, Thanks for the advice.

I'll explain in more detail once you join our skype chat. What's your skype name?

Also, I've found that I don't see the invincible frame at respawn, why so ? I've tried many US ! rom and PJ64 emulator on different computer... does this happens to everyone?

Oh lol, wasn't sure what you meant before. It just means you're not using the best graphics plugin. I suggest you use Glide64 Final.

I've just figured out that dream land beta 1 and 2 don't work when player 2 (or more) die. Anyone found how to set this up ? (respawn position ?) Also, items don't spawn in FD and demo, I'm not sure if I wanna work on that by the way.

I haven't really tried dream land beta much. That's odd about the items not spawning in FD ;/ . I'll try doing some testing though.

 

[Kahnu]

------------------ignore-------------------

 

[JoGooD]

Oh lol, wasn't sure what you meant before. It just means you're not using the best graphics plugin. I suggest you use Glide64 Final.

Thanks, I used it on a old version of PJ64 and it was laggy, I thought Glide was outdated plugin...

I haven't really tried dream land beta much. That's odd about the items not spawning in FD ;/ . I'll try doing some testing though.

Ya, beta don't really worth it, demo stage is cool, need new spawn (no item too).

 

[tehz]

I haven't tried patching mr bland's code in a rom though, so maybe it can work.

Not that I know much about rom hacking, but if what I assume is happening is happening (the exact same instructions are DMA'd from somewhere on the rom into active memory), then it should be really easy to NOP the bad branch just like the GS codes do. You'd just have to find where in the ROM the instructions are originally stored, which shouldn't be that hard if you just search for like a group of 5-6 instructions.

Speaking of mr bland, I know he looked into player spawns on FD and found how to change them (so P1/P3 and P2/P4 don't spawn on top of one another). Look at his original post on that game hacking forum. As for FD items, I just think that there aren't any spawn points, so you'd have to figure out how those work + add them in.

 

[ZenBren]

I'd say switch saffron out for battlefield, those holes in the map make it really hard for some characters. I don't really know how much you can do with this but I think it would be really cool if you could toggle hitbox display somehow.

 

[JoGooD]

Not that I know much about rom hacking, but if what I assume is happening is happening (the exact same instructions are DMA'd from somewhere on the rom into active memory), then it should be really easy to NOP the bad branch just like the GS codes do. You'd just have to find where in the ROM the instructions are originally stored, which shouldn't be that hard if you just search for like a group of 5-6 instructions.

Speaking of mr bland, I know he looked into player spawns on FD and found how to change them (so P1/P3 and P2/P4 don't spawn on top of one another). Look at his original post on that game hacking forum. As for FD items, I just think that there aren't any spawn points, so you'd have to figure out how those work + add them in.

Thanks for the tip, however I didn't found the FD spawn on the FD tread (will have to figure it out)
Maybe it's there (Final destination team matches UPDATE .cht! tread, will post link later)

I'd say switch saffron out for battlefield, those holes in the map make it really hard for some characters. I don't really know how much you can do with this but I think it would be really cool if you could toggle hitbox display somehow.

Well, I find saffron without pokemon really cool and (correct me if I'm wrong) dream land without wind is the same as polygon stage (battle field). Maybe that stage should be revised ... but I can't for now.
By toggle hitbox display, you mean like switching L (or use pad control) for hitbox of your own character ? Sounds like a great idea and probably not that hard to add except if it doesn't switch during the game when you add the code... will have to check this out, thanks !

 

[tehz]

Thanks for the tip, however I didn't found the FD spawn on the FD tread (will have to figure it out)
Maybe it's there (Final destination team matches UPDATE .cht! tread, will post link later)

The discussion is on a different site: http://jul.rustedlogic.net/thread.php?pid=436902#436902

 

[ZenBren]

Yeah I guess you're right, dreamland with no wind is basically the same. Maybe the platforms and walls are slightly different but I'm not too sure.

 

[Cobrevolution]

plats are different and ledge shenanigans are lol

 

[ZenBren]

If you check out THIS LINK it explains why certain maps are banned and they're all pretty straight forward reasons. So in theory if you eliminated the problems you could have more competitively viable maps. I think planet zebs with no lava and a redone floor would be a pretty great stage. Also it would be cool if you could figure out how to put a colour over lay option on hitstun, so I could practice combos and SDI, kinda like what the 20xx training pack does.

 

[JoGooD]

If you check out this link it explains why certain maps are banned and they're all pretty straight forward reasons. So in theory if you eliminated the problems you could have more competitively viable maps. I think planet zebs with no lava and a redone floor would be a pretty great stage. Also it would be cool if you could figure out how to put a colour over lay option on hitstun, so I could practice combos and SDI, kinda like what the 20xx training pack does.

Good info, thanks !
Modding a map seems a lot more hard. But if someone can bring me that pokemon stadium (melee) as seen on PSA project, I'll replace for Sector Z.
It seems hard to get lava out Planete zebes so I don't know, for know I change for metal mario and I set FD on Mushroom kingdom. Also, no more cloud on Yoshi Island ! (see update)

I've also found an interesting topic about stage select screen swap so we can see which on it is !

Thanks for your help !

 

[TempleofDreams]

I was making a Gameshark collection to make the game more balanced too but waited before releasing it here to test and see if it was really balanced or if it had any glitches. It was a surprise to see that someone was faster than me!
Anyway, you're looking for a code that removes the lava from Planet Zebes, right? Well, I don't exactly have a code for that, but you can use this one to make the lava not rise:
81131404 0002

 

[JoGooD]

I was making a Gameshark collection to make the game more balanced too but waited before releasing it here to test and see if it was really balanced or if it had any glitches. It was a surprise to see that someone was faster than me!
Anyway, you're looking for a code that removes the lava from Planet Zebes, right? Well, I don't exactly have a code for that, but you can use this one to make the lava not rise:
81131404 0002

That's great ! I was just about to say I need to figure out what is legit and not legit. However I know about lava freeze but I don't think it is enough... By the way, without wind, tornado, we were still playing more in Hyrule and Dream land after tonight's testing. FD is cool, Metal mario not really, but if someone can bring somethings like pokemon stadium stage (two platforms and a large flat board) that would be nice. Also, I will remove the bumper and the two things in the air and make the moving plate possible to grab (if possible), anyone has something against these mod ?

Also, could you share your testing and code ? It would be very appreciate !

My point by making that patch is to give more choice of characters to players, because I think Pika, Kirby and Fox are definitely better than other characters. So to figure this out, I need people to test cheats and give me some result and what they think would be great to fix the characters just to make them a little better.

 

[JoGooD]

So let's see:

Samus: I don't know about the code I added, I don't play this one at all... is it too much or not enough ?

Luigi: Switch cyclone for mario's tornado ? It would be nice to give something new to this character since it is a copy of Mario in this game.

Link: Higher UP+B seems good as it is not enough to make his recovery OP (about what we've tested), it is probably not enough.

Ness: Lack of a better recovery... But I really don't know what to do here, I don't want to just give him pika up+b, I need suggestion here.

Jigglypuff: No idea, down+B completely useless...

DK: I don't know if don't lose his charge is good, DK is really good after all. Maybe add little more foward hitbox to dash attack (if not too hard to figure out) ?

Yoshi: Seems that it doesn't have anything to change there, seems like a unique very good character.

Mario: Good character, don't think there's really something to change.

That being said, I'd like to know what the smash community thinks about this ?

 

[Indefa]

This is a really cool idea.
One question though (or rather a request). I'd like to play a modded version of the game but with the original char mechanics still there (so just no changes to characters moves). Would it be a challenge to have an option or another version with all the other changes except the char changes?

 

[Shears]

I'd like to add this to the site http://gameshark.supersmashbros64.com and give it a section.

If there are any other codes anyone wants added let me know.

 

[ZenBren]

It seems like you have two groups of people interested in this mod: 1 is interested in charater modding and altering mechanics of the game and altering maps to make a more balanced game.
2 is interested in modding maps but not so much on charater and game mechanics.
So Maybe it would be a good idea to make two different mods.

One would be like the project melee of 64. You could alter aspects such as:
- altering game mechanics such as hitlag, hitstun, and possibly SDI and the ability to fast falls during air attack animations. (maybe altering hitstun and SDI would help in making a more balanced game when considering combos and the fast falling might be a fun thing to consider.)
- alter charater moves such as start up time, knockback, animation lag, damage, durration ect.
-altering maps to make more balanced

The other would be like the 20XX training pack of 64. You could alter aspects such as:
- toggle hitbox display
- color overlay for hitstun
- flash white on correct L cancle
- flash red on missed L cancle
- altering maps to make more balanced
- alternative costumes? (both maybe?)
- toggle between (J) version and (U) version game mechanics

not sure how much is possible or helpful, just some thoughts.

 

[TempleofDreams]

That's great ! I was just about to say I need to figure out what is legit and not legit. However I know about lava freeze but I don't think it is enough... By the way, without wind, tornado, we were still playing more in Hyrule and Dream land after tonight's testing. FD is cool, Metal mario not really, but if someone can bring somethings like pokemon stadium stage (two platforms and a large flat board) that would be nice. Also, I will remove the bumper and the two things in the air and make the moving plate possible to grab (if possible), anyone has something against these mod ?

Also, could you share your testing and code ? It would be very appreciate !

My point by making that patch is to give more choice of characters to players, because I think Pika, Kirby and Fox are definitely better than other characters. So to figure this out, I need people to test cheats and give me some result and what they think would be great to fix the characters just to make them a little better.

In my collection, I thought about replacing Planet Zebes with Battlefield, but I later decided to keep it since it can be very fun for those who like to play with four players. I wanted to not make it more balanced, not competitive-friendly.

If you're looking for codes, search this forum before anything else since there are many users who are very skilled hackers. There are codes for Dream Land without the middle platform and even Dream Land with no platforms, but those work only for Project 64 1.6 and 1.7.

The codes from my collection aren't anything worth sharing right now, honestly. I just took most of them from the Gameshark Code Collection, with the only exceptions being some slightly changed attacks. About your codes, Samus and Link are slightly better, but that still makes Pikachu, Kirby and Fox better than the rest. I suggest making Pikachu's and Kirby's recovery slightly worse if you want them to be more balanced.

I wish I could help more, but my knowledge with Cheat Engine is rather poor. I can't change hitbox, damage, knockback, modify stage platforms, and many other things. As far as I know, adding options that can be changed in-game like Team Attack or Stage Select are impossible.

 

[JoGooD]

This is a really cool idea.
One question though (or rather a request). I'd like to play a modded version of the game but with the original char mechanics still there (so just no changes to characters moves). Would it be a challenge to have an option or another version with all the other changes except the char changes?

Yeah, I understand it's kinda problematic, as said further...

I think it might be a good idea to note that SSB64 is considered the most balanced smash game, the only real exceptions being pikachu (who has a clear advantage over everyone) and samus (who has a clear disadvantage against everyone) so if you're looking to make a more balanced game you pretty much have two options: 1 buff everyone to pikachu's level 2 nerf everyone to samus's level. To do this you need to ask two question: 1 what makes the rat so good 2 what makes samus so bad.
Pika is considerd good because he has lots of combo options, lots of powerfull kill options and an unperdictable recovery. The recovery is important because it's not that distance that makes pikas recovery so good, but the unpredictability and the invibility frames in the move itself.
I'm not really sure why samus is so bad, I tihnk it's because she has a lack of combo options and slow air movement speed.
It seems like you have two groups of people interested in this mod: 1 is interested in charater modding and altering mechanics of the game and altering maps to make a more balanced game.
2 is interested in modding maps but not so much on charater and game mechanics.
So Maybe it would be a good idea to make two different mods.

One would be like the project melee of 64. You could alter aspects such as:
- altering game mechanics such as hitlag, hitstun, and possibly SDI and the ability to fast falls during air attack animations. (maybe altering hitstun and SDI would help in making a more balanced game when considering combos and the fast falling might be a fun thing to consider.)
- alter charater moves such as start up time, knockback, animation lag, damage, durration ect.
-altering maps to make more balanced

The other would be like the 20XX training pack of 64. You could alter aspects such as:
- toggle hitbox display
- color overlay for hitstun
- flash white on correct L cancle
- flash red on missed L cancle
- altering maps to make more balanced
- alternative costumes? (both maybe?)
- toggle between (J) version and (U) version game mechanics

not sure how much is possible or helpful, just some thoughts.

(Sure it is ! Thanks for sharing, I like it)

I should have put a question system to see what's the real deal with more balanced character (I'm making one right now). Personally, I really want to keep the SSB64 mechanics and just add slightly stronger character with really minor changes. I don't really want characters being better than Pikachu (certainly not by making him worse like they did in melee).

In my collection, I thought about replacing Planet Zebes with Battlefield, but I later decided to keep it since it can be very fun for those who like to play with four players. I wanted to not make it more balanced, not competitive-friendly.

If you're looking for codes, search this forum before anything else since there are many users who are very skilled hackers. There are codes for Dream Land without the middle platform and even Dream Land with no platforms, but those work only for Project 64 1.6 and 1.7.

The codes from my collection aren't anything worth sharing right now, honestly. I just took most of them from the Gameshark Code Collection, with the only exceptions being some slightly changed attacks. About your codes, Samus and Link are slightly better, but that still makes Pikachu, Kirby and Fox better than the rest. I suggest making Pikachu's and Kirby's recovery slightly worse if you want them to be more balanced.

I wish I could help more, but my knowledge with Cheat Engine is rather poor. I can't change hitbox, damage, knockback, modify stage platforms, and many other things. As far as I know, adding options that can be changed in-game like Team Attack or Stage Select are impossible.

Thanks for your help, but I already know about all these cheats, if you see some I didn't put in my cheat list (in the bottom of my first message) you can share it if you think it would be good !

 

[JoGooD]

So here's the surveys, thank you for taking a little 5 min to answer that survey !

You can always update your answers and I'll update the results on a section of my first message.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/5STM7WM

 

[<Fruity>]

Imo just modify the stages to make them as much competitive as possible and add some new ones.

I really dislike the idea of modifying char's mechanics

 

[Compatible]

An idea for his recovery:

Ness would control his Pk-Thunder the exact same way. Yet once he hits himself with it, he would have the ability to change his flight direction (similar to Pit's arrow in SSBB).

 

[Shears]

I think just remove the thunder and have him begin as if the thunder hit him (kind of like foxs). Reduce knockback to something like foxs and invincibility to something like foxs. Reduce the distance it travels but still longer than foxs since ness doesn't have the second jump ability like fox does. I think this would buff ness without making him overpowered. If you simply removed the thunder and made his upb as if the thunder hit him without changing any of the properties of the move, then he is overpowered imo since it would have fast startup, little landing lag if sweetspotted and aimed appropriately, unmatched distance, unmatched knockback and power, nearly invincible the entire time, incredibly fast. The game would just be ness upbing non stop across the stage. It would turn into the most broken move in any smash bros game ever (Brawl MK IDC and tornado included).

For samus, just make the bombs not lose jump. Samus weakness is in recovery and that buff gives her more recovery options.

Link, make his upb higher and I think he is fine. His projectiles are already overwhelming, his hitboxes are disjointed because of sword, he has great kill moves, and with an increased upb he would be covered.

Luigis only deficiency in my opinion is his floatiness and how short hopping sucks for him. His cyclone isn't bad as it can kill over the top and comes out in a frame. Thats a one frame kill move, does it really need to be changed?

While you're at it, make kirby utilt either a little slower or reduce the size of the hitbox, or both. In fact, just remove that character from the game, every move other than uair is overpowered.

These are basically explanations of my answers to the survey.

 

[Saltsizzle]

I like the idea of ness having more control over direction of his recovery after he gets struck with pk thunder (both during when the hitbox is out and when in the helpless state).

Link needs a higher recovery, or the ledge needs to be easier to grab (can be grabbed from further away or when link is lower to the edge), or both. The move's hitbox can maybe be tweeked to last just a bit longer too.

Luigi's air speed can be faster and short hop lower. His dash attack can also be changed with higher knockback and/or less recovery on it.

DK's recovery can have more verticality to it. DK could also use a faster/more recoverable dash attack.

Mario and Yoshi seem fine to me.

I'm not sure a mod changing the characters would be popular as the community is small and seems to value the game being pure and untouched. PM has had success because Brawl was new with more characters and played like what many regard as the best game in the series, Melee. 64 doesn't have nearly the popularity of these games. That being said, the idea sounds fun and I would definitley give the new mod a shot.

I also like the idea of having a mod with no changes to the characters and new/updated stages. No hazards, a lighter background for Zebes and Congo, and battlefield added (possibly instead of mushroom kingdom) would be welcome changes in my book.

 

[ZenBren]

I like the idea of ness having more control over direction of his recovery after he gets struck with pk thunder (both during when the hitbox is out and when in the helpless state).

Link needs a higher recovery, or the ledge needs to be easier to grab (can be grabbed from further away or when link is lower to the edge), or both. The move's hitbox can maybe be tweeked to last just a bit longer too.

Luigi's air speed can be faster and short hop lower. His dash attack can also be changed with higher knockback and/or less recovery on it.

DK's recovery can have more verticality to it. DK could also use a faster/more recoverable dash attack.

Mario and Yoshi seem fine to me.

I'm not sure a mod changing the characters would be popular as the community is small and seems to value the game being pure and untouched. PM has had success because Brawl was new with more characters and played like what many regard as the best game in the series, Melee. 64 doesn't have nearly the popularity of these games. That being said, the idea sounds fun and I would definitley give the new mod a shot.

I also like the idea of having a mod with no changes to the characters and new/updated stages. No hazards, a lighter background for Zebes and Congo, and battlefield added (possibly instead of mushroom kingdom) would be welcome changes in my book.

YES lighter background on Congo and you might want to do the same for FD. Alternatively you could just make the darker character costumes lighter.

 

[JoGooD]

I think just remove the thunder and have him begin as if the thunder hit him (kind of like foxs). Reduce knockback to something like foxs and invincibility to something like foxs. Reduce the distance it travels but still longer than foxs since ness doesn't have the second jump ability like fox does. I think this would buff ness without making him overpowered. If you simply removed the thunder and made his upb as if the thunder hit him without changing any of the properties of the move, then he is overpowered imo since it would have fast startup, little landing lag if sweetspotted and aimed appropriately, unmatched distance, unmatched knockback and power, nearly invincible the entire time, incredibly fast. The game would just be ness upbing non stop across the stage. It would turn into the most broken move in any smash bros game ever (Brawl MK IDC and tornado included).

For samus, just make the bombs not lose jump. Samus weakness is in recovery and that buff gives her more recovery options.

Link, make his upb higher and I think he is fine. His projectiles are already overwhelming, his hitboxes are disjointed because of sword, he has great kill moves, and with an increased upb he would be covered.

Luigis only deficiency in my opinion is his floatiness and how short hopping sucks for him. His cyclone isn't bad as it can kill over the top and comes out in a frame. Thats a one frame kill move, does it really need to be changed?

While you're at it, make kirby utilt either a little slower or reduce the size of the hitbox, or both. In fact, just remove that character from the game, every move other than uair is overpowered.

These are basically explanations of my answers to the survey.

I like the idea of ness having more control over direction of his recovery after he gets struck with pk thunder (both during when the hitbox is out and when in the helpless state).

Link needs a higher recovery, or the ledge needs to be easier to grab (can be grabbed from further away or when link is lower to the edge), or both. The move's hitbox can maybe be tweeked to last just a bit longer too.

Luigi's air speed can be faster and short hop lower. His dash attack can also be changed with higher knockback and/or less recovery on it.

DK's recovery can have more verticality to it. DK could also use a faster/more recoverable dash attack.

Mario and Yoshi seem fine to me.

I'm not sure a mod changing the characters would be popular as the community is small and seems to value the game being pure and untouched. PM has had success because Brawl was new with more characters and played like what many regard as the best game in the series, Melee. 64 doesn't have nearly the popularity of these games. That being said, the idea sounds fun and I would definitley give the new mod a shot.

I also like the idea of having a mod with no changes to the characters and new/updated stages. No hazards, a lighter background for Zebes and Congo, and battlefield added (possibly instead of mushroom kingdom) would be welcome changes in my book.

That's great, accuracy is what I need ! Keep this up !
(Survey updated, you can change answers)

I also like the idea of having a mod with no changes to the characters and new/updated stages. No hazards, a lighter background for Zebes and Congo, and battlefield added (possibly instead of mushroom kingdom) would be welcome changes in my book.

YES lighter background on Congo and you might want to do the same for FD. Alternatively you could just make the darker character costumes lighter.

Yeah, I didn't add this to update but I'm working on that. I think about training mod background for FD and congo

 

[clubbadubba]

1) Samus is not the worst

2) Give samus falcon's grab and she's top tier

 

[JoGooD]

Update (see result):

I'm working on Nes.
I don't really know what to do with luigi.
For now, Samus will only have mini bombs don't make lose her jump and link, I keep better up+b and I,ll try to figure out better ledge grab.

There will be two version of the patch, I'll make the one without balanced character.
Please, continue answering the survey and giving very precise suggestion.
Don't forget that you can always update your answers and also in comments, don't forget to add which character you're talking about when there is multiple choice.

Thank you for supporting the project !

 

[JoGooD]

Hello everyone,

Here is a little update of what's going on:

I finally got a real Gameshark, so we'll be able to test codes on a real console.

For some reason, swap doesn't work on emulator, I have no idea if this will work on a patch.
The - symbols means it is the only part of the code you need for switching the map. The ^ means it's suppose to be the only part you need to swap screen for switching map. These codes have still not been tested on a real console yet, but here a printable copy of the document:

https://fr.scribd.com/doc/254000754/Smash-64-GS-list

Thank you for supporting the project, if you have anything to share, go ahead !

- JoGooD

 

[MrMarbles]

Hello everyone,

Here is a little update of what's going on:

I finally got a real Gameshark, so we'll be able to test codes on a real console.

For some reason, swap doesn't work on emulator, I have no idea if this will work on a patch.
The - symbols means it is the only part of the code you need for switching the map. The ^ means it's suppose to be the only part you need to swap screen for switching map. These codes have still not been tested on a real console yet, but here a printable copy of the document:

https://fr.scribd.com/doc/254000754/Smash-64-GS-list

Thank you for supporting the project, if you have anything to share, go ahead !

- JoGooD

get rid of all the landing lag on ness's up b and make it so he has alot of air mobility after starting the "helpless" animation after his ub b ends. basically that would make his recovery similiar to fox's but with more range

 

[tehz]

Do you mind if I ask what the first four lines of codes for the stage select cheats are doing? Codes like this [D11346EE 13F8, 811346EE 13F8] obviously aren't doing anything.

I'd be worried about the character attribute codes, since I'm sure the character data isn't loaded at all times. But, they are really "high up" in the memory so you probably won't be overriding really important things. The GS does suck though, so you never know what will cause it to crash.

 

[JoGooD]

Do you mind if I ask what the first four lines of codes for the stage select cheats are doing? Codes like this [D11346EE 13F8, 811346EE 13F8] obviously aren't doing anything.

Yes I know, that's why I said the ^ and - symboles are suppose to be the only part of the code you need. I wasn't sure since it didn't work on emulator, so I put it anyway in case and to have it somewhere if I want to switch those.

I'd be worried about the character attribute codes, since I'm sure the character data isn't loaded at all times. But, they are really "high up" in the memory so you probably won't be overriding really important things. The GS does suck though, so you never know what will cause it to crash.

Sounds bad...

 

[Mr.Random]

So here's the surveys, thank you for taking a little 5 min to answer that survey !

You can always update your answers and I'll update the results on a section of my first message.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/5STM7WM

just finished the survey I put a lot of good suggestions in there so be sure to read up. Overall liking this concept.