Balanced Brawl Public Preview *GENESIS UPDATE*

[bleyva]

Of course, testing revealed some implications, and the main one I noticed was that down angled fsmash hits over a similar area to dtilt which makes it basically a slower, stronger, chargeable dtilt that is independent from dtilt in the stale moves queue

give samus a 2nd dtilt? i like the way you think

as a samus player new to bbrawl, this is lookin pretty interesting

 

[Thinkaman]

Just so you guys know... We are officially launching the final version tomorrow night.

Sorry if I'm in a hurry at the moment and can't address any posts. Be back later.

 

[MK26]

Next step is to petition to the wbr to make bBrawl the official game mirite?

Also, Comex just released his exploit that allows you to load geckoOS without installing hbc on your wii. I suppose it was just in time for the release, eh?

 

[SuSa]

Snake's jab is so good that every character in the game can actually DI out of it.

Snake's jab is so good that it can completely miss 4 characters, and a good majority can simply hold shield (or hold away and shield) to powershield the last kick.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6574674&postcount=159

Yep. So overpowered that the last hit of the jab rarely hits.

I think if you actually get hit by it, you pretty much deserved it.

 

[Linkshot]

The "deserved it" part should apply to Zamus and Samus, too. But it doesn't :/

 

[Adapt]

Snake's jab is so good that every character in the game can actually DI out of it.

Snake's jab is so good that it can completely miss 4 characters, and a good majority can simply hold shield (or hold away and shield) to powershield the last kick.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6574674&postcount=159

Yep. So overpowered that the last hit of the jab rarely hits.

I think if you actually get hit by it, you pretty much deserved it.

this sounds like ZSS... but there are only 9 characters who actually get hit

More risk... less reward

 

[koldstare64]

Whoops, messed up this post.

 

[koldstare64]

Interesting. Could you elaborate on how super missles are used to start a combo?

Missile canceling is a tech with Samus, where you jump and then fire either kind of missile as she lands, which fires the missile while giving immediate control over her because the landing animation cancels the end of her missile firing animation. Since Samus can run just about as fast as her super missiles, it works as a great way to start off certain combos from a safe distance. The extra knockback on super missiles makes it more difficult to perform a few of these combos.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Next step is to petition to the wbr to make bBrawl the official game mirite?

Also, Comex just released his exploit that allows you to load geckoOS without installing hbc on your wii. I suppose it was just in time for the release, eh?

To be very honest here, we had inside info and knew all about it (but were sworn to secrecy). The release caught us totally off-guard though. We are kicking our project into high gear and will have something for everyone to enjoy tonight and a real release tomorrow, along with at least one other bit of fun.

Do expect a few other surprises after the standard release; we wanted to do everything at once, but some of the lower priorities are being down-shifted in our queue of concern... Of course, everything gameplay related is top priority, but we should have a solid version ready for that.

 

[Thinkaman]

Snake's jab is so good that every character in the game can actually DI out of it.

Snake's jab is so good that it can completely miss 4 characters, and a good majority can simply hold shield (or hold away and shield) to powershield the last kick.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6574674&postcount=159

Yep. So overpowered that the last hit of the jab rarely hits.

I think if you actually get hit by it, you pretty much deserved it.

The issue was never that Snake jab3 was overpowered; this project is not about a vendetta to hunt and destroy good moves and improve all the bad ones. It's to balance matchups. Snake was such a good character that he had to come down somehow, but we didn't want to do it just by nerfing u-tilt into oblivion. We spread the pain a little, so to speak, so that the othervall style of his ground game can stay intact. (For example, nerfing u-tilt so hard that d-tilt or jab3 became better KO moves would be undesired.)

There are lots of examples where we left good moves alone, and lots of examples where we left bad moves alone. There are examples where we touched good moves, and examples where we touched bad moves--all according to matchups.

For example, take Jigglypuff Sing. It's one of the worst moves in the game, hands down. And yet, there is no reason to buff it. You can think of a million ways to make it better, but what matchups would they fix? Can you think of any way to make Sing especially effective agianst G&W and Wario, while leaving her other marthups alone? The game is perfectly fine with Sing being an awful move.

On the other hand, you have a bad move like Sonic's d-tilt. Not a very good move, but experimentation showed that it could be buffed in such a way that it became useful against long-range characters that Sonic struggles with, if it actually set up his followup game instead of being a useless poke.

Just because a move is good or bad has no overall relation on if they are changed or not. All that we care about is what impact changing them will have on each matchup.

 

[koldstare64]

As per the super missiles, I confess to having been completely unaware of that sort of follow up, but given that Samus is a keep-away character, I would imagine super missiles keeping them out better is a bigger deal than getting follow ups off super missiles. Thanks for making us aware of the trade-off there; it's interesting to say the least...

I definitely understand why you'd see her as a keep away character. Many people play her campily (if that even is a word), so from a keep-away perspective, more knockback would be favorable. When I play Samus, however, I'm more offensive, and use her projectiles either as lead ins to combos or as a way to keep my opponent constantly moving. Something I would like to see would be a sweetspot grapple beam with more knockback, rather than the super missiles, because a sweetspotted grapple couldn't combo in to much to begin with, while having pretty much the same effect. I feel like this would satisfy the 'keep-away' Samuses and the more agressive Samuses without necessitating a change in playstyle of either group.

On a non-Samus related note, I was playing a CPU Meta Knight that adjusted to the new Mach Tornado; I tried it out myself, and the move can still rack on damage if used in a certain way that is rather difficult to describe. As MK, if you are facing your opponent, and use Tornado as an approach, and if one hit hits successfully, by immediately going in the opposite direction, MK still traps the other person inside of the tornado doing a lot of damage. Also, did you ever take a look at MK's glide attack? It can kill a non-DIing Mario at ~130%, which his up special and dsmash (unless charged) don't even come close to doing. If your goal was to make MK's main source for KOs from gimping only, then you might want to consider nerfing the knockback on the glide attack.

 

[Thinkaman]

I definitely understand why you'd see her as a keep away character. Many people play her campily (if that even is a word), so from a keep-away perspective, more knockback would be favorable. When I play Samus, however, I'm more offensive, and use her projectiles either as lead ins to combos or as a way to keep my opponent constantly moving. Something I would like to see would be a sweetspot grapple beam with more knockback, rather than the super missiles, because a sweetspotted grapple couldn't combo in to much to begin with, while having pretty much the same effect. I feel like this would satisfy the 'keep-away' Samuses and the more agressive Samuses without necessitating a change in playstyle of either group.

Zair is already a very good option, and increasing it's keep-out potential is a polarizing threat against characters that have trouble getting in against Samus.

What %s are super missile followups reasonable normally?

On a non-Samus related note, I was playing a CPU Meta Knight that adjusted to the new Mach Tornado; I tried it out myself, and the move can still rack on damage if used in a certain way that is rather difficult to describe. As MK, if you are facing your opponent, and use Tornado as an approach, and if one hit hits successfully, by immediately going in the opposite direction, MK still traps the other person inside of the tornado doing a lot of damage. Also, did you ever take a look at MK's glide attack? It can kill a non-DIing Mario at ~130%, which his up special and dsmash don't even come close to doing. If your goal was to make MK's source for low % KOs from gimping only, then you might want to consider nerfing the knockback on the glide attack.

Glide attack is a situational move though, even if it is quite fast, pretty safe, and very deadly. Meta Knight can't just do it whenever he wants, and it's not a KO option he can rely on.

As for your nado observations. This is known. When testing different versions of nado, my primary concerns were "Is it repeatable?" and "Does it gimp off walk-offs?" Nado is still a good move, but the restrictions on how it must be used now to be both effective and safe limit it in such a way that it should not polarize matchups.

 

[koldstare64]

What %s are super missile followups reasonable normally?

It really depends on the character, because most light characters are too short to hit consistently with a missle canceled super missile. Normally, for medium characters onward, I can't follow up a super missle with anything at all at ~140% and up. But this is kind of misleading; in normal Brawl there are different follow ups to use at different %s. In BBrawl, the increased knockback makes some combos either impossible or extremely less effective. For example: one way to follow up a missle canceled super missile is to use Samus' Fair, scoring at least 3-5 hits of the Fair including the strongest, last hit of it. The boosted super missiles only consistently allow for 2 middle hits to connect. There are a few other examples of things that can no longer be used to follow up; this is only one case. But the loss (to my playstyle) is two fold: certain combos can no longer be done in some cases, along with less of a % range in which I can use the combos still available.

Also, let me know if I start to get too pushy on the subject. I'm a long time Samus mainer that had worked on her metagame in normal Brawl, and I'd just like to be able to carry over that same metagame to BBrawl.

Oh, and now that you've explained it, I completely understand why you made Nado that way and why you left his glide attack alone. Thanks ^_^

 

[Thinkaman]

Oh, and Salty, since I never answered your question from awhile back, it has to do with the way Brawl handles multiple hitboxes. (This was the problem with Toon Link's d-smash in part too, originally.)

However, I reworked it a little just now and found a way to still have original behavior on the second hitbox! Everyone wins.

It really depends on the character, because most light characters are too short to hit consistently with a missle canceled super missile. Normally, for medium characters onward, I can't follow up a super missle with anything at all at ~140% and up. But this is kind of misleading; in normal Brawl there are different follow ups to use at different %s. In BBrawl, the increased knockback makes some combos either impossible or extremely less effective. For example: one way to follow up a missle canceled super missile is to use Samus' Fair, scoring at least 3-5 hits of the Fair including the strongest, last hit of it. The boosted super missiles only consistently allow for 2 middle hits to connect. There are a few other examples of things that can no longer be used to follow up; this is only one case. But the loss (to my playstyle) is two fold: certain combos can no longer be done in some cases, along with less of a % range in which I can use the combos still available.

I see. I had started messing around with Samus some more last night, tryign to see what was possible with canceled super missile followups, and I assumed this was predominantly used against tall characters, especially those who are hard to keep out anyway.

This just an experiment for kicks and giggles on my part, but I messed around with electric missiles featuring low knockback and massive hitlag. You can probably guess how nasty that went. Canceled super missile to f-smash, anyone?

Can you tell me what your current opinions are (of those you have formed) about Samus's matchups in BBrawl? Who does she still struggle with the most, or what characters have gained the most to use against her? My impression is that Samus will always be at a relative disadvantage against smaller, faster characters that she has more trouble controlling the pace of the match against. (Squirtle might actually be her worst matchup... although she does great against the other two Pokemon.)

Also, let me know if I start to get too pushy on the subject. I'm a long time Samus mainer that had worked on her metagame in normal Brawl, and I'd just like to be able to carry over that same metagame to BBrawl.

No, this is good feedback.

Oh, and now that you've explained it, I completely understand why you made Nado that way and why you left his glide attack alone. Thanks ^_^

Sure thing.

EDIT: Also while it's on my mind, what about the dair knockback buff? That has no problems with Samus's use for it on stage?

 

[SaltyKracka]

Excellent. That's good to hear, Thinka. Now, I go to these weeklies, and I'm thinking of bringing along a copy of the finished BBrawl with me so that we can all test it out and provide feedback. Would you be interested to hear what they have to say? They're some of the best guys in my area, and with their feedback you could get a feel for whatever tweaks you may need to make in the future.

 

[illinialex24]

Thinkaman, I might come to St Louis on the 7th

 

[koldstare64]

This just an experiment for kicks and giggles on my part, but I messed around with electric missiles featuring low knockback and massive hitlag. You can probably guess how nasty that went. Canceled super missile to f-smash, anyone?

Rofl. If it wasn't such a game-breaking concpet, that would have been so cool

Can you tell me what your current opinions are (of those you have formed) about Samus's matchups in BBrawl? Who does she still struggle with the most, or what characters have gained the most to use against her? My impression is that Samus will always be at a relative disadvantage against smaller, faster characters that she has more trouble controlling the pace of the match against. (Squirtle might actually be her worst matchup... although she does great against the other two Pokemon.)

I'll do some more testing tonight to get a better idea of where she stands. I just wish I had some competent people to test on, instead of these CPUs. >_<

EDIT: Also while it's on my mind, what about the dair knockback buff? That has no problems with Samus's use for it on stage?

I can't complain about that; not only does that make it more potent of a spike, but it makes KOing with it (albeit at very high %s) a bit easier. It may not be a super-spectacular-amazing improvement, but it is an improvement nonetheless.

I have to go for a bit, but I will be back later with my interpretation of Samus' matchups.

 

[GreenFox]

No guide to get this on your Wii and you want this to get big? :/

 

[Thinkaman]

Excellent. That's good to hear, Thinka. Now, I go to these weeklies, and I'm thinking of bringing along a copy of the finished BBrawl with me so that we can all test it out and provide feedback. Would you be interested to hear what they have to say? They're some of the best guys in my area, and with their feedback you could get a feel for whatever tweaks you may need to make in the future.

That would be excellent and most welcome.

Thinkaman, I might come to St Louis on the 7th

Great news! Of November?

I'll do some more testing tonight to get a better idea of where she stands. I just wish I had some competent people to test on, instead of these CPUs. >_<

Obviously there is no substitute for real competitive matches, but CPUs are extremely useful ragdolls for making sure combos still work. (Especially since level 9s will wiggle out of most situations if the timing is possible, even if the same cannot be said for their spacing and DI.)

I can't complain about that; not only does that make it more potent of a spike, but it makes KOing with it (albeit at very high %s) a bit easier. It may not be a super-spectacular-amazing improvement, but it is an improvement nonetheless.

The base knockback on that move was originally "2". You don't even need to know the scale or units to imagine how low that is.

No guide to get this on your Wii and you want this to get big? :/

Again, we're releasing tomorrow night. Expect all nature of pretty and helpful things then.

 

[Werewolf25]

Now THIS is what I've always wanted out of Brawl. Thank you so much, from a loyal Ganondorf player.

 

[Crescens]

What dair knockback boost do you mean? I'm still using Genesis. I don't really see a point, however. Samus can't get people off the stage at low percentages to spike them. Once you can get them off the stage, they are at a high enough percent that the dair will kill them anyways. Even if they survive, Samus can dair almost anyone's up-B. Furthermore, re-tethering and her absolutely ridiculous regrab with her Up-B will ensure that anyone who gets spiked is dead. If you DO want to buff her gimp game, a buff to nair (perhaps KBG) would be better; it allows for more flexibility offstage against the few characters that dair isn't great and provides a very small boost to the move on stage (better spacer). All the fast characters that cause Samus trouble (listed below) are all amazing in the air. Popping out a quick nair might actually be able to help get them out of your face. Even better, nair is simply not very useful against Samus' stronger matchups.

MK, Tink, Pika, Squirtle, Diddy. Sammy still sucks here; most of her buffs will never see the light of day against walls of annoying, spammed moves. I'm still considering the viability of bomb buffs, but it's a difficult move to change without fundamentally altering it.

(Yes, I know I was commented against a nair boost earlier. Buff KBG instead of BKB. Otherwise, 2 quick nairs to the face will kill Links and Ivysoaurs much too early to be healthy. With a KBG boost, it should only be highly effective at a point where Link and Ivy are ridiculously easy to gimp anyways.)

Edit: by the way, what's the KBG on fair right now? 2 BKB is just pitiful, but it seems potent at later percentages.

 

[Thinkaman]

Guys...

It was supposed to be tomorrow... alongside the final launch...

...but I can't wait any longer. I've been sitting on this for one day too many.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8187622

Enjoy.

 

[Thinkaman]

Double bonus post:

I tested all characters against DDD's tech chase earlier today.

Luigi and Ike have such low friction and good tech rolls that rolling away will let them always escape the d-throw by rolling away if there is open space. Luigi will probably slide off ledges, but Ike long roll will get caught on them.

Some characters can also barely evade the chase regrab by DIing away *and* rolling away *and* immediately spot-dodging: (Any edge that cuts their roll short will prevent their escape.)
Zelda
ICs
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Lucas
Snake

All other characters can always be regrabbed, in any situation. (Given a tech chase.)

Of note is that DDD always has regrab on tech chase against Falco and Olimar. Also interesting is that Charizard is by far the easiest to tech chase, but Squirtle and Ivysaur are some of the only characters that can escape.

For those curious, DDD has a 13-frame advantage on people he d-throws. Compare to Snake, who has a 1-frame disadvantage on his d-throw. (Snake is much faster at moving than DDD though, and his d-throw does more damage per hit.)

Also, if they do not DI the d-throw, d-throw to d-tilt works on all characters except Luigi and Squirtle.

 

[Crescens]

Have you tested to see if it's at all possible to techchase on reaction? I know ganon can *technically* on some characters, but it's difficult. Some characters have subtle cues in the early stages of their rolls that tell you which direction they're going.

D3 may be able to infinite the slower rollers such as charizard with practice and quick reactions; have you tested this?

(Very nice videos, by the way. The production and editing value was epic. I presume we get a full list of changes tomorrow night?)

 

[Adapt]

13 frame advantage seems like a little too much to me...

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

King Dedede's mobility is also horrible; our experimentation suggests that it's something that is only going to chain with prediction. Granted, with proper prediction, amazing things can happen.

 

[SaltyKracka]

King Dedede's mobility is also horrible; our experimentation suggests that it's something that is only going to chain with prediction. Granted, with proper prediction, amazing things can happen.

When you consider the sheer range of his grabs, his only sub-par mobility is much less of a factor.

 

[Thinkaman]

13 frame advantage seems like a little too much to me...

In practice, you'll see that it feels and plays right--the main thing is that many characters can tech-roll faster than DDD actually runs, so you have to make up the entire distance gap and then some with your frame advantage, and still have time to do your dash grab before they spot-dodge. It's possible and practical, but not trivial. Pivot grabbing inward rolls helps against many.

 

[koldstare64]

Can you tell me what your current opinions are (of those you have formed) about Samus's matchups in BBrawl? Who does she still struggle with the most, or what characters have gained the most to use against her? My impression is that Samus will always be at a relative disadvantage against smaller, faster characters that she has more trouble controlling the pace of the match against. (Squirtle might actually be her worst matchup... although she does great against the other two Pokemon.)

Crescens pretty much nailed it in terms of which characters Samus has a noticable disadvantage against. Smaller, quicker characters are her weakness.

In BBrawl, Samus has a large disadvantage against: Diddy Kong, Toon Link, Meta Knight, Olimar, Pikachu, Squirtle, and Mr. Game and Watch. Samus has a slight disadvantage against: Luigi, Sheik, Kirby, Fox, Falco, Wolf, and Marth. Samus is pretty much even with: Peach, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Link, Ganondorf, Pit, Ivysaur, Lucario, Ness, Snake, and Sonic. Samus has a slight advantage against: Mario, Bowser, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Jigglypuff, and Lucas.

I left out Ice Climbers, ROB, and King Dedede purposefully. I have not been able to decide their matchup with Samus because the CPU sucks just that badly, and because I don't have much experience with their normal Brawl counterparts.

I was thinking of a way how to improve her bad matchups when it hit me: what about her up smash? By severely decreasing the overall power of the move (maybe like 5% total, 1% per hit), decreasing the knockback of the last hit, and adjusting the move as a whole so that it works kind of like her fair, would, in conjunction with her 'initial dash animation cancel up smash slide,' provide some protection against many aerial approches that Samus' bad matchups have. At the same time, the move would be so weak damage-wise that it would not be viable for anything much other than aerial defense (unless perhaps in addition to the weakening of the last hit's knockback, the knockback's direction was changed to combo in to screw attack or something, but that kind of defeats the purpose of it being a defensive move).

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Jigglypuff is a smaller, quicker character though... Anyway, I really don't think you can judge too much from play with the AI; they are already extremely, extremely bad with the whole cast, and they just plain misuse some things we added because they don't know better (they just don't understand Ike's new Quick Draw, as an example).

 

[koldstare64]

Jigglypuff is a smaller, quicker character though... Anyway, I really don't think you can judge too much from play with the AI; they are already extremely, extremely bad with the whole cast, and they just plain misuse some things we added because they don't know better (they just don't understand Ike's new Quick Draw, as an example).

Yea, I hear ya. I personally don't value the CPUs too highly either, I just used them to take a peak into what you had changed from original Brawl. My list of matchups is really a bunch of educated guesses; based on normal Brawl, I took into account the changes that you had made to each character, along with the changes you made to Samus, having tried out these changes first hand from both points of view.

As for Jiggly, she is small, but her real speed is while she is airborn, which can sometimes open the door for missile combos, screw attack, and annoying zair spam. It's just a different kind of speed that (in this case) works more against Jiggly than for her.

 

[Sinz]

So, when is this final launch?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Tonight whenever Thinkaman gets back from his tournament. His Balanced Brawl tournament I should note!

Also, are there any PAL players around right now? I have a PAL codeset ready, but of course I have no idea if it works. PM me ASAP if you have a PAL Wii/Brawl that is homebrew enabled and are willing to help. If no one does, we'll just launch not knowing if it works.

 

[SuSa]

The issue was never that Snake jab3 was overpowered; this project is not about a vendetta to hunt and destroy good moves and improve all the bad ones. It's to balance matchups. Snake was such a good character that he had to come down somehow, but we didn't want to do it just by nerfing u-tilt into oblivion. We spread the pain a little, so to speak, so that the othervall style of his ground game can stay intact. (For example, nerfing u-tilt so hard that d-tilt or jab3 became better KO moves would be undesired.)

There are lots of examples where we left good moves alone, and lots of examples where we left bad moves alone. There are examples where we touched good moves, and examples where we touched bad moves--all according to matchups.

For example, take Jigglypuff Sing. It's one of the worst moves in the game, hands down. And yet, there is no reason to buff it. You can think of a million ways to make it better, but what matchups would they fix? Can you think of any way to make Sing especially effective agianst G&W and Wario, while leaving her other marthups alone? The game is perfectly fine with Sing being an awful move.

On the other hand, you have a bad move like Sonic's d-tilt. Not a very good move, but experimentation showed that it could be buffed in such a way that it became useful against long-range characters that Sonic struggles with, if it actually set up his followup game instead of being a useless poke.

Just because a move is good or bad has no overall relation on if they are changed or not. All that we care about is what impact changing them will have on each matchup.

And what matchups did you make easier by changing the last hit of jab? Nobody should even be getting hit by it.

"We just took a move that you should never get hit by. And made it weaker!"

Basically you took a move no Snake main should be using anyway, and gave them even less of a reason to use it.

I could understand if you at least made it quicker so that the last hit of the move would actually hit.....

I can understand weakening utilt. That made sense. People get hit by it. But Jab?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236143

There's a KO % chart. So you are telling me you'd nerf Jab before dair?

tl;dr
Snake's Jab is horrible.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

You do realize that when Snake hits you with jab1 he has a mix-up, right? He can do for the full jab combo or jab cancel into ftilt (also jab cancel to grab, but most people in my experience are good at avoiding that one). This is really too fast to react to; you have to predict. It's also extremely good, especially against characters like Mr. Game & Watch who have to stay in Snake's face (i.e. are scared of getting grenade camped) and are focusing so intently on avoiding utilt because utilt kills them stupidly low that they are going to eat more jab1s than you'd think they "should" and probably won't react that quickly to all of them. Making jab3 not a kill move (which really makes it like everyone else's jab3s) is a general nerf to this mix-up in specific without really affecting much of the rest of Snake's game (nerfing ftilt more would affect a lot more than this). Snake has +3 frame advantage with his closer hitbox on jab1 and +6/+0 with his farther one depending on whether they do an aerial action or a grounded action (the hard landing animation takes time). The mix-up is definitely real; that's pretty good frame advantage. It's not in the same league as Ike's, but it is among the game's better jabs.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236603 is a good resource for information about frame advantage out of jabs.

As per dair, Snake tends to do best against the aerial characters whom his grenades impede when he uses them intelligently and who fear his up tilt more than most. I hate to keep bringing up Mr. Game & Watch, but he really is such a good example! The nerfed Meta Knight feels the exact same way too. If Snake is jumping to do dair, those characters are happy even if dair is a really good move. On the other hand, if Snake is playing a cautious, grounded game they're unhappy, and his jab mix-up fits into that nicely.

Also, in general, Snake is a fragile system. We understand exactly why Snake is so good in standard Brawl. Turn just a few knobs on Snake a little too much the wrong way, and he drops from top to low nearly instantly. I mean, he's a big, slow character who is extremely poor at fighting in the air due to his poor aerial mobility and really huge commitment on all five of his aerials. That is a recipe for failure in Brawl, and it's only through a very delicate balance of several extremely powerful tools that he's good (quite contrary to, say, Meta Knight who is good in a way that is pretty resilient). Sakurai doubtless understood this, and out of trepidation for making a character as unique as Snake that wasn't good at all, he left Snake stronger than he should have been (top tier and all). We don't want to balance everyone but Snake and leave Super Snake Bros. Brawl, but we did address Snake with the utmost of caution since we know it would be way too easy to ruin Snake.

I'm sure no one will believe me when I say that Snake could easily be a low tier character with not so major adjustments; everyone knows the amazing Snake of standard Brawl as their "norm", and it's strange to think of such a good character as being at risk. Still though, I feel as though we dodged a bullet with Snake; I think as a whole package, we got him about right.

 

[ratman19]

i love bb. the only thing i really hate so far is pikachu and dedede up throw. although i dont really play dedede. you cant get characters in the air that easy unless you hit them with his side b. if dedede and pikacus up throw can be back to normal that would be perfect

 

[Mr. Escalator]

The throw issues are fixed in the official release (which is tonight, supposedly).
I guess all is well :D

Falco's bthrow is left unchanged, however.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

i love bb. the only thing i really hate so far is pikachu and dedede up throw. although i dont really play dedede. you cant get characters in the air that easy unless you hit them with his side b. if dedede and pikacus up throw can be back to normal that would be perfect

They are back to normal in the standard release. They were only this way in the earlier releases due to code limits related to throws which have since been resolved.

 

[Leon89]

Hey, i just found this mod today, i have read through this topic. and i'm excited about final release. i have figured out how to imploment the normal version of this mod, but i'm curious how i should imploment the Genesis release?

do i just copy the code from the txt over the gameconfig.txt data.

do i move the Genesis.txt into the base of the SD card and rename it to gameconfig.txt.

what should i do?

though this does not matter seeing as the final release will be tonight. hopefully

 

[Crescens]

Hey, i just found this mod today, i have read through this topic. and i'm excited about final release. i have figured out how to imploment the normal version of this mod, but i'm curious how i should imploment the Genesis release?

do i just copy the code from the txt over the gameconfig.txt data.

do i move the Genesis.txt into the base of the SD card and rename it to gameconfig.txt.

what should i do?

though this does not matter seeing as the final release will be tonight. hopefully

The ONLY thing you need to do is switch the old .gct file to the new one. Nothing else needs to be changed.