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Balance tweaks you'd like to see in the patch

MarioMeteor

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So, if you've watched the Direct, (and if you haven't, what rock have you taken up residence in?) you'd know that very soon, there will be an update that will include a variety of things, one of them being "tweaked character balance," as I think they put it. What would you like to see balanced? For me, I'd want to see
1. Diddy's Hoo-Ha removed, and more lag on some of his attacks. Namely his frame 1 down tilt.
2. Some more lag on all of Sheik's moves.
3. Sonic's Spin Dash's priority decreased, and less power on his moves.
4. Fox's double Jab combo removed.
5. Make Doc good.
And you know, some buffs and nerfs here and there. But enough about me, let's hear you.
 

Tanark

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1.2 frame more lag of yoshi's Nair
2. doc and robin's ground speed increase
3. little bit more knockback for Mario's Dthrow and Utilt
4, buff swordfighter
 
D

Deleted member 269706

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Hmm...Diddy definitely deserves a couple of tweaks, but nothing devastating. I mean there have been many tournaments where players have taken down Diddy's with rather abstract characters. I'm really hoping that Sonic will also take a few nerfs, namely on his spin-dash, and Fsmash. Only other character that really comes to mind is Lucario and his Aura+rage. That is just brutal to play against.

As far as buffs go, I'd love to see Falco return to his former glory. I also wouldn't mind Ike having just a little less end-lag on some of his moves (Fsmash & Usmash for example). Same with a lot of the lower tier characters, just general buffs here and there to help them out.
 

DungeonMaster

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No teching grounded meteor smash/spikes or make that window very small, it's too easy right now.
 

Venks

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I'd like to see Heavy Armor absorb higher damage before being failing. Currently Bowser's heavy armor and Little Mac's Straight Lunge are just useless.

Speaking of Little Mac I'd like to see him buffed given how terrible his recovery is. Make his down-tilt side smash truly devastating like we were told it would be back on Miiverse. Make it so that the move has so much hit-stun that Little Mac can combo into a second smash attack. That would actually give him something to combo with.

I'd also like to see either forward tilt or down tilt's recovery reduced. Many characters have safe ways to put on pressure, but LM really has to commit everything for not much reward.
 

Zylach

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Zelda will get another 1 percent damage buff to utilt thereby making her top tier.

You think I'm lying. Look at Shaq's face. Does that look like the face of a liar?
 

Nixon Corral

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Buff everybody. It'll be great.

Also, increase hitstun, decrease landing lag, etc. etc. All the typical gripes.
 

OmegaSorin

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1.) Nerf the Villager's Ledge Game, for god freaking Sakes. PLEASE.
2.) Lag on Sheiks moves would be nice agree there.
3.) Balance out Diddy some bruh, come on. Guys just redonkulous.

Besides those three things I really have no issue with how things are balanced right now. Granted, I don't pay to much attention to the metagame as of late, but from what I see those are the three serious issues in my opinion.
 

Jiggly

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Make Diddy's Dthrow like brawl with the trajectory behind him, and either give his Uair more start up, or less KB

Make puff's jab have less KB so she can jab reset.

nerf greninja
 

Scamper52596

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I would like a few less frames of landing lag on some of Toon Link's aerials.
Being able to Z-Drop without the tether coming out would be a nice addition as well.
 

Quillion

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Diddy's up-air has slightly higher base knockback but lower knockback growth. Still a good combo move. Not a finisher move. (I'm a temporary Diddy main, BTW)

All-around Super Armor additions for the Mighty Glaciers. Their approaches don't have to be predictable.

All-around power and range increase for Mighty Glaciers. Their finishing abilities will put them on par with the combo-heavy Fragile Speedsters

An approach for Zelda.

Pretty much everything Balanced Brawl did (thx @ Amazing Ampharos Amazing Ampharos and @Thinkaman).

Fragile Speedsters otherwise KEPT THE SAME (thx SD Remix and @sdremix_troubleshooter).

Otherwise, I'm actually very glad that it seems that Sakurai has committed to the idea of balance patching. I still want him to do other things as he clearly resents having to keep with a series that he wants to be done with, but he could leave some staff to keep working on Smash while he does other things.
 

Propeller Toad

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1) Give Doc a slightly increased recovery for his up special. Honestly, it's horrible in range and comparable to Little Mac..

2) Better grab range for Robin.

3) Give better spacing and accuracy to Olimar/Alph's down smash.
 

Abyssal Lagiacrus

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I know it won't happen, but this is my personal list
  • Shieldstun. At least put it in the game, lel.
  • More hitstun, to prevent people from being able to mash air-dodge to have a get-out-of-jail-free card.
  • Speaking of airdodging, only 1 airdodge.
  • Make rolling have more end-lag or whatever so it's less tempting to spam it around the stage.
  • Give buffs to the "lower tier" characters, that way they have more things to work with.
 
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deepseadiva

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Make it so that fsmash has so much hit-stun that Little Mac can combo into a second fsmash. That would actually give him something to combo with.
Honestly some of yall are completely ridiculous.
 
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Freezie KO

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1. Diddy's Hoo-Ha removed, and more lag on some of his attacks. Namely his frame 1 down tilt.
2. Some more lag on all of Sheik's moves.
3. Sonic's Spin Dash's priority decreased, and less power on his moves.
4. Fox's double Jab combo removed.
1.2 frame more lag of yoshi's Nair
2. doc and robin's ground speed increase
3. little bit more knockback for Mario's Dthrow and Utilt
4, buff swordfighter
1.) Nerf the Villager's Ledge Game, for god freaking Sakes. PLEASE.
These all sound good. Not excessive, just solid balancing nerfs. A little lag for Sheik, a little adjustments to Diddy's up-air combos and dtilt, make Yoshi and Sonic a bit more punishable, etc.

I think Sheik's needle-camping, Yoshi's eggs, and a few other things could also use a bit of nerfing, but these above suggestions nail the general direction the patch should take.
 

Funkermonster

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I would love to see the following buffed:
:4lucina::4littlemac::4darkpit::4zelda::4gaw::4miisword::4bowserjr::4charizard::4wiifit::4robinm::4dedede::4duckhunt:, especially the first two

As much as I like her in Fire Emblem, I can't really find anything about Lucina that makes her threatening other than Shield Breaker, and I think she was given waaaaay too many weaknesses:
  • Horrible Recovery
  • Limited Combos
  • No reliable kill move or kill confrims
  • Nearly every move other than Dtilt is unsafe on shield
  • Terrible set of throws
Also, give her a real advantage over Marth please, don't make her a completely worse version of him. Little Mac needs an option to deal with platform camping, and there's only so much you can do with a character who has to be grounded for almost the whole fight. He's got like half a moveset, and his NeutralB and SideB are so useless that they take away yet another part of his moveset. His recovery is also a little too weak, he barely has any combos, and has a short ranged grab with low grab reward.

I'm okay with :4sheik: and :4diddy: being nerfed. And I think Villager's recovery and ledge game could be toned down a little.



Also, please leave :4sonic: alone, don't touch him. He does not need any nerfs at all, and I wish people would just git gud and quit complaining about him.
 

OmegaSorin

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I would love to see the following buffed:
:4lucina::4littlemac::4darkpit::4zelda::4gaw::4miisword::4bowserjr::4charizard::4wiifit::4robinm::4dedede::4duckhunt:, especially the first two

As much as I like her in Fire Emblem, I can't really find anything about Lucina that makes her threatening other than Shield Breaker, and I think she was given waaaaay too many weaknesses:
  • Horrible Recovery
  • Limited Combos
  • No reliable kill move or kill confrims
  • Nearly every move other than Dtilt is unsafe on shield
  • Terrible set of throws
Also, give her a real advantage over Marth please, don't make her a completely worse version of him. Little Mac needs an option to deal with platform camping, and there's only so much you can do with a character who has to be grounded for almost the whole fight. He's got like half a moveset, and his NeutralB and SideB are so useless that they take away yet another part of his moveset. His recovery is also a little too weak, he barely has any combos, and has a short ranged grab with low grab reward.

I'm okay with :4sheik: and :4diddy: being nerfed. And I think Villager's recovery and ledge game could be toned down a little.



Also, please leave :4sonic: alone, don't touch him. He does not need any nerfs at all, and I wish people would just git gud and quit complaining about him.

I'm actually with you on Sonic, I've not really seen much wrong with Sonic's Metagame. He seems to be pretty well balanced, especially compared to his god awful Brawl counterpart.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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IMO this game is still pretty new and doesn't need major overhauling. As someone invested in a pretty high tier character, I have real insecurities. Upon thought, if I had the power to make this patch myself, here's what I would do...

Diddy Kong:

Uair should kill about 20% later,
IASA on both dthrow and uthrow moved 1-2 frames later (but same launch angles and such).
Monkey Flip (default only) and fair minor damage nerfs (like 1-2% less damage on each).
Otherwise no changes.

~Diddy isn't as problematic as some people say, but the game is better if his throws are not super guaranteed and instead merely sometimes guaranteed but always very good chases. Uair is just ridiculous as it stands. Monkey Flip and fair are wonky in how hard they hit, and that too imbalances the character. The above Diddy is likely still high tier if not still top, just not as "clear #1" as he is now.

Sheik:

Slightly more endlag on both default and piercing needles.
Otherwise no changes.

~Sheik is better designed and balanced than she gets credit for, but one aspect that isn't really good is how she can needle camp out slower characters. Making them a bit less safe would let the bigs approach her a lot more viably while not taking away from the stuff about her game that makes her such a valuable part of the game's design.

Rosalina:

If Rosalina is not free to act, Luma can no longer chain jabs
Rosalina should have to mash a little harder to get rapid jab (quality of life change, not for balance)
Both character uairs should kill very slightly later (about 10% later on average)
Rosalina's nair (not Luma's) should have slightly bigger hitboxes.
Fair should have about 1 frame less landing lag.
Otherwise no changes.

~I don't think Rosalina needs a substantial net nerf; she was already nerfed really hard in 3ds. She is, however, really good, and her uair is part of what's just kinda dumb about her though you can't nerf it very much or you risk ruining the character. A little nerf would be fine though and probably for the better. The jab chaining when in hitstun or grabbed is honestly stupid and causes bad player experiences without even helping Rosa that much. On the other hand, seriously, it's just obnoxious how easy it is to accidentally rapid jab with her; no one benefits from Rosa players having to carefully watch their inputs just to jab 3. In exchange for the uair nerf, a slightly better hitbox on nair (to protect herself) and about 1 frame less landing lag on fair (would generally make that move more applicable for the limited jobs it does for her) would help her worse match-ups while not really mattering to the characters she already beats.

Sonic:

Bthrow kills very slightly later (like maybe 10% later on average).
Very slightly decrease fsmash range, very slightly increase dsmash range (both are just a bit off, not big changes).
Play with usmash's knockback on early hits so it connects properly below 100% on Bowser and other bigs.
Otherwise no changes.

~Sonic honestly needs brought down just a peg, and the cleanest way to do this is to take his killing bthrow that rolls to ledges for you and make it kill just a bit worse. His fsmash has awkwardly much range and his dsmash has awkwardly little, and this can be stupid both in and against Sonic's favor and would be easily fixed. The usmash thing would be a buff for an already great move, but for serious, if you hit Bowser at 80% and he holds down he just gets out which is not good design.

Those are the only characters I feel substantially deserve nerfs, honestly only Diddy deserving nerfs that really hurt. A few I think warrant some sidegrading:

Zero Suit Samus:

Reduce kill power of Boost Kick by about 20%.
Boost Kick should connect the hits a bit more reliably.
Boost Kick no longer has RCO lag (this is stupid).
Utilt lag reduced from a million years to something reasonable.

~ZSS is really defined by how crazy powerful Boost Kick is which causes bad player experiences and makes her scale poorly to higher skill levels. Making it more reliable and not have that stupid RCO lag in exchange for making it kill later actually helps all parties, and to push her just a bit, making utilt's endlag less asinine would be nice.

Mii Brawler:

Helicopter Kick should have less base and more growth (so near edges it doesn't kill so crazy soon, should be about the same from other stage positions).
Fsmash's endlag could be slightly less comically bad (still should be unsafe, just not this hilariously unsafe).
Piston Punch glitch fix.
Larger hit area and greater movement control over Headache Maker (side-3); this move could be a useful tool to Brawler as a high priority move with just a little tweaking.

~Mii Brawler is mostly fine but has some non-trivial poor tuning on a few moves; this fixes them.

Villager:

Balloon Trip and Exploding Balloon Trip should have a ledge grab limit like Aether (can still grab by manually popping balloons).
Grabbable items should only be possible to stuff into the pocket once (so Villager can't repeatedly pocket the same item to permanently grief someone like R.O.B.)
Increase jab damage by 1%
Speed up all grabs slightly.
More landing lag on slingshots if not auto-canceled.

~Villager is probably the most polarizing character in the game. The first change removes any semblance of ledge stalling (not that it's broken or even good as it stands, just an obscure knowledge test to see if you know how to beat it) and makes long term run-away strats harder for him in general. The second removes a match-up specific abuse that shouldn't have ever existed. The last three things are about helping him in his bad MUs (making it easier for him to protect himself and approach defenses better than his) while hurting him in his worst match-ups (who just have no way at all through walls of slingshot bullets).

Then I think a lot of characters deserve buffs, but here are the notables I have thoughts about...

Zelda:

Jab should be less awful all around.
Back throw should kill about 20% earlier.

~Zelda is very hard to tweak without making her busted in FFAs, but seriously, she can get some help without doing that. A better jab would do so much for her 1v1 neutral without being a problem in other modes, and for how laggy her grabs are and the fact that she's a power character anyway, there's no reason she can't kill with throws.

Mii Swordfighter:

Gale Strike should retain damaging hitboxes for more distance.
Whatever up-1 is called should have larger hitboxes, practically combo the rising hit into the falling hit (so it could be used more like Dolphin Slash, not that big but still).
Airborne Assault could be less comically unsafe on block (still not safe but just less comical)
Aerial mobility in general needs to go up so he can practically space his aerials.
All aerials should have a few frames less landing lag.
Hitboxes on fair should be very slightly taller so he can combo the hits of fair together in more situations.
Fsmash should extend his arm a bit longer (for more range).
Usmash should kill somewhat earlier.

~This character is really awful, but this would be a decent start to fixing him I think.

Little Mac:

Full hop should go higher (able to FH onto SV's platform, able to double jump onto Duck Hunt's tree)
Uair should hit a far larger area, covering Little Mac's head, and should do double damage to a shield (I suggest a little whirlwind effect surrounding his fist to demonstrate the new, large hitbox).

~This is looking to fix the ability to lame out Little Mac without adjusting the various properties that could easily become dumb on the character.

King Dedede:

Almost every move should be a frame or two faster (for tilts it's endlag, for other moves it's start-up)

~This character is actually pretty close to functional, but his tilts being unconditionally unsafe and his other moves just being too slow to connect reliably in average situations is a problem. A modest speed buff for him is non-dangerous and could really help him a lot.

Falco:

Running speed improved somewhat.
Dair should start up about 4 frames faster.
Blaster (all versions really) should have a little less endlag.

~Falco could be really good if he actually moved when you ran, had a projectile that was somewhat better, and had a dair that was not for serious frame 16 which is not vaguely in line with the value of the move.

Samus:

Almost all hitboxes on normals need to be about 10% bigger.
Jab should actually combo.

~Samus would be... so much more playable with just this. She's so awkward now mostly because these things are not true.

Duck Hunt:

Jab combo should connect a bit more cleanly and reliably with the rapid portion of the jab.

~Duck Hunt's main problem is that he fails to protect himself, very polarized character except his problem is how badly he loses some match-ups. This would be actually a big help, maybe not enough by itself but would be playing it safe.

Mr. Game & Watch:

Almost all moves should do more damage, about half-way between the Brawl values and the Smash 4 values.
Turtle should have considerably less landing lag, close to Brawl safety (but less shield damage since it would do only half-way between Brawl damage and 4 damage).
Dsmash soutspot should have somewhat better kill potential (not up to Brawl level but better than it is now).

~G&W is really, really bad right now; the biggest problem is that his moves just don't hit nearly as hard as they should. His second problem is that he lacks approaches that have any kind of safety. These problems were not present in the honestly balanced (if often obnoxious) Brawl G&W so that's a good place to look (also the only version of G&W I'm aware of who was a functional character). This would probably be just a start but would put him back on people's radar as a relevant character.

Actually... I could go on all night and go through every character, but something along these lines would be very welcome. I'd also of course like to see Olimar's Order Tackle glitch and Palutena's Lightweight glitch fixed, Mega Man's utilt RCO lag fixed, for the new travel stages to no longer hit you while in motion (seriously this is obnoxious to literally all players not just tournament players and single-handedly ruins Mario Circuit), for Lylat to no longer pop fighters into the air, and for the clipping on stages in general to be improved so falling through them is more rare.

This kind of speculation is kinda fun and it's always interesting to take about what we would do with the power, but I hope everyone knows that whatever is in this patch is already decided (whatever it is) and that whatever we say here will never, under any circumstance, be read by anyone relevant from Nintendo. This is purely just for fun.
 
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David Wonn

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Imagine if Ganondorf didn't go into helpless state after an aerial Forward+B. Then he would be able to follow up with an Up+B, like Fox and Falco are now able to do in this version, making his recovery less weak. It would be a very welcome addition, IMO.

Likewise Little Mac would benefit in a similar fashion if his Forward+B did not go into helpless state either, though he'd still have the weakest recovery overall.

I also wish Wario still had his lag-less aerials from Brawl, or at the very least, reduce some of the landing lag, but I know that is wishful thinking, since equipment improves this.

If Dr. Mario had a rapid aerial Down+B something like Smash 64 Luigi's, his recovery would be much less an issue than it is currently. But due to his custom specials, I highly doubt his default specials will ever be tweaked to this extent.

Of course there are many other things that should be fixed, but I think Ganon and Little Mac's recoveries aren't unreasonable to tweak, given the existing precedent for improving Fox and Falco's recoveries since Brawl.
 

pikazz

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will summon up patch I want to have:

just a lttle longer hitstun (not much, but just that little extra)
longer shieldstun and shield pressure, making it harder to be defensive
nerf diddy and shiek so they are not OP (shiek can be anywhere and do anything and diddy is fast, powerful AND heavy)
buff some characters that deserves it (like those who is bad/bottom at tier list like Lucina, Bowser Jr, ect)
remove some glitches/exploits like Fox Jab-combo, palutinas lightweight glitch etc.
 
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Lag Chan

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buff some characters that deserves it (like those who is bad/bottom at tier list like Lucina, Bowser Jr, ect)
I agree with everything else you said, but I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Bowser Jr is a viable character easily and Lucina is a lot better than people give her credit for. It would be nice if she stood out a little more from Marth, but she's hardly bottom of any tier list (Don't get me started on the tier list here or the Japanese one)
If there's anyone who needs buffs for being bottom of the barrel, it's Donkey Kong. Poor guy got a huge nerf from Brawl and is easily the worst of the super heavyweights (Yes, I think DK is worse than Charizard.)
 

New_Dumal

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Buff low tiers.
Nerf Diddy, just a bit.
Please, don't nerf anyone else.
 

Mikkelmann

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Nerf the knockback and damage on diddys up air. And buff some of the low tiers.
 

Myst_R

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As a Sonic user, the first thing I want to say is that he really doesn't need any nerfs.

The only clear thing is that Diddy Kong DThrow to UpAir is too strong and must be changed.

I also agree with some changes to make the defensive playstyle less awarded.
 

Diddy Kong

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Just move ahead to the Diddy complain thread already boys. :smirk:

I want NOTHING changed about Diddy. Give some other characters some buffs instead.
 

Mikkelmann

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Just move ahead to the Diddy complain thread already boys. :smirk:

I want NOTHING changed about Diddy. Give some other characters some buffs instead.
This could work just keep Diddy the same and buff other characters to be better. XD other then the nerf I said earlier I want to see more nerfs on Luigi and Sonic.
 
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Tino

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Buff Rosalina back to the way she was prior to the 1.0.4. patch. :p

And nerf Greninja...
 
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Funkermonster

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I agree with everything else you said, but I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Bowser Jr is a viable character easily and Lucina is a lot better than people give her credit for. It would be nice if she stood out a little more from Marth, but she's hardly bottom of any tier list (Don't get me started on the tier list here or the Japanese one)
If there's anyone who needs buffs for being bottom of the barrel, it's Donkey Kong. Poor guy got a huge nerf from Brawl and is easily the worst of the super heavyweights (Yes, I think DK is worse than Charizard.)
:4bowserjr: is viable? Barely
  • Abysmal approach options
  • A Terrible projectile that doesn't force approaches
  • Bad Out of Shield Options.
  • Limited Killing options
  • Somewhat weak ground game
  • His grab is slow as hell. Almost as slow as a tether grab without even possessing the range of one, not to mention he doesn't get much of a reward from his grab since they don't combo or kill. Yoshi also has an awful grab and pitiful grab reward, but at least he has a good command grab to make up for it.
To beat him, all you got to do is be patient. If your opponent knows how Junior works, its gonna be really hard to win since they can force him to go in unfavorably with predictable, unsafe attacks or try to hit them with his 2 projectiles (one of which is slow as **** and is telegraphed, the other can be used against him). The dude has too hard of a time getting in, and anybody who can effectively wall him out will make a long boring fight for him thanks to his inability to approach. When he's on the defense, he can't really deal with being pressured very well and his out of shield options are horrible. UpB Oos? No. Usmash OoS? Nu-uh. Nair OoS? Not really, too little knockback. Shieldgrab? Kinda, but once again his slow grab hinders this. A lot of things can be safe on shield against him that wouldn't be against almost anyone else, and his bad grab makes it hard to threaten shields himself. They gave Junior tools for both rushdown play and turtle play, and yet he excels at neither one of these and has a rough time fighting those who can walk all over him with pressure and anyone who can keep him from ever getting in, although he can do good against characters that can't do either like :4bowser: or :4marth:. His approaches are limited, His Out Of Shield Game is Limited, his Killing Options are limited. Bowser Junior would be okay if he didn't have such a terrible grab and/or if he had a method of approaching with any safety, but he is a real difficult character to play with quite some detrimental weaknesses. And while his custom moves are good in different ways, I don't think any of them really make him drastically better. Personally I do think he's got potential though.

:4lucina:

  • Her recovery sucks
  • Lack of kill options and kill confirms
  • Too many of her moves besides Jab and Dtilt are unsafe on shield
  • Low grab reward and overall poor set of throws
She may not be bottom tier, but she is definitely low tier at least, and she's not performing very well in tournaments right now either. Has too much trouble killing anyone she can't easily edgeguard, and is pretty easy to kill herself thanks to that crappy recovery. She can put people on defense and force them to shield just fine, but what else can she do afterwards? Her grab is decent and better than Junior's, but her throws are not very rewarding in either kill or combo potential. Shield Breaker is scary, but what makes it good is mostly just the the threat of breaking shields, anyone with a brain will rarely ever actually get their shield destroyed by it. Its still a scary move and a nice tool she has, but that's kind of the only thing scary about her and Lucina doesn't really have much else that makes her an actual threat, mostly stuff that makes her merely annoying. As mediocre as he is, I even find :4charizard: superior to her: He's got armored moves, has a better grab and reward from grabs, has significantly more reliable killing options, and has better survivability with his heavier weight and better recovery.


With all that wrapped up I don't wanna make a heated argument or go too off-topic, but I can see where he's coming from perfectly and I personally agree with this dude that they are bad and should be buffed.
 

pikazz

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I agree with everything else you said, but I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Bowser Jr is a viable character easily and Lucina is a lot better than people give her credit for. It would be nice if she stood out a little more from Marth, but she's hardly bottom of any tier list (Don't get me started on the tier list here or the Japanese one)
If there's anyone who needs buffs for being bottom of the barrel, it's Donkey Kong. Poor guy got a huge nerf from Brawl and is easily the worst of the super heavyweights (Yes, I think DK is worse than Charizard.)
well, it was 2 examples of characters that could get buffed.
Jr is my main, but he do have some weaknesses like a really whiffy sidesmash thats sometimes is unsafe to use and his grabs and throws are slow and doesnt kill or have a follow up, they are in that "gray zone" which is useless.
Lucina only has her Neutral B attack at her dispenser that makes her a threat, without it she isnt that good. they could make her lags go a bit faster.

but yeah, I do understand you and I hope you understand me now? xD

if I know Nintendo right, they will probely NOT follow a tier list but look into each attack themself on each character and think "if this fast enough, is it strong enough, what can you do after it" etc and buff/nerf depending of their thoughts.
buuuuut now when nintendo are showing that they are listening to us (with the DLC character votes, Lucas, MK8 and more), they can listen to our responses and fix what we think in audinces think are too OP and too bad

@ Funkermonster Funkermonster , thanks for giving more detailed of why those 2 deserves a buff x3
 
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DavemanCozy

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Inb4Greninja&LittleMacNerfs

On a serious note, I'd like to see some Marth and by extension Lucina buffs. The amount of endlag they have is just awful, one mess up means you just left yourself open.

At least give them a grab game.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Marth needs to be faster and more fluid, maybe a slightly bigger tipper as well? I approve 100% for Marth buffs. Ike buffs also would be nice. Ike needs to do more damage overall, and maybe even kill somewhat earlier. Lucina also obviously needs her buffs. Maybe make her actually faster than Marth? And make Marth more balanced, but with far more kill power?
 

LunarWingCloud

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There is no need to nerf anyone. Just give buffs to characters who need it.
 

YoshiplayerX

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Im hopping for a Marth and Falco Buff.
Both Characters are horribly slow and have too much ending lag.
I want Diddys UpAir a little nerfed too.
Shiek should be unchanged. She is vety hard to play and a very light character.
 

Lag Chan

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Thank you both for some well thought out replies. I was only a casual Junior user back on the 3DS version, so my experience is somewhat outdated.

I can completely see where you come from in regards to the buffs, I have lost to a few really good Junior users and it was mostly down to it being a poor match up or like you mentioned, I needed to be patient and I wasn't. Some buffs would be nice to see if it means getting more users, he's a really fun character to go up against.

I still feel like Lucina and Marth are still pretty underrated, they could be better but even then I'm fairly happy with how they are. I would be happy to see Lucina get more to differentiate herself from Marth, but I'm not holding my breath. Once again, after reading your posts the idea of them getting buffed is more approachable for me.

My main issues with Marth buffs is that I think people would only be happy with him if he was back to Brawl or Melee level, where they'll only think Marth is good if he's ridiculously good again. I'm hoping for the best but I can foresee a lot more posts asking for Marth buffs soon.

PS: I'm probably the only person who thinks the Greninja nerf was worth it. He could get away with some crazy stuff and now he's at a level where he's still good and isn't as braindead as before.
 

kamus_aran

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Reduce ending lag on :4palutena: Palutena's f-tilt, f-smash, d-smash, dash attacks, reflect and counter please "." I mean her attacks are not that powerful but she has a lot of ending lag on almost her entire moveset (except jab, some aerials).
 
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TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Less landing lag after Zelda's fair and bair, more range on upsmash so it's closer to brawls and no helpless state after using din's in the air, that's all I need

Buff the other bottom tiers too (DK, Olimar, WFT, Charizard, Doc, Samus, Link etc)

Also if Lucina could have less landing lag after her aerials, right now there is zero reason to use her over marth so her being a more aerial version of him could work

More changes to dark pit would be nice too, I don't care what just make him more different even if it's just slight damage and knockback tweaks
 
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shaowebb

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Give smooth lander's automatic L-cancel properties to every character as a default trait.
 

_Barrage

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I would love to see some lag removed on Marth and Falco's aerials just to bring them a bit more up to par.
 

Lag Chan

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Buff the other bottom tiers too (DK, Olimar, WFT, Charizard, Doc, Samus, Link etc)
Honestly, I feel Samus is good enough as she is and Link could actually do with a nerf. Specifically, I'd like to see a nerf for his smash attacks since they're a bit too good in my opinion, preferably a knockback nerf so he doesn't kill as early.
 
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