B-Reversal - New Technique and Guide [now with video and replay data]

[metroid1117]

I personally think this can be a viable technique for certain characters; not only projectile spamming characters, but also for a character like Ike; you can dash away and then immediately Quick Draw towards your opponent. It's better than turning around and QD'ing (too much turnaround-startup-lag) or short-hopping and QD'ing (you have to factor drift distance when spacing).

 

[Davrob1]

way to over analyze something that is incredibly simple

this was in melee and it is way easier to do if you press back then press b
that is:
when you are facing one way just press back THEN let the stick return to neutral THEN press b right away and you will do your neutral b move facing the other way.

 

[Taymond]

way to over analyze something that is incredibly simple

this was in melee and it is way easier to do if you press back then press b
that is:
when you are facing one way just press back THEN let the stick return to neutral THEN press b right away and you will do your neutral b move facing the other way.

*sigh* Way to ignore 95% of the thread and make the same incorrect assumption that's been made dozens of times over.

 

[Rebel581]

Reverse B. Already figured it out. The only characters it's not possible with are Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, and Pit. Pit can cheat though since he can turn around during his B anyways.

Only works out of the full dash. Do it with Ike, he slides really funny.

Oh, and Davrob, that's not how reverse B's worked in Melee. That just worked because the stick didn't stop at the neutral position and usually continued slightly to the opposite side.

This technique is useful. Especially with Pit (LOL, he can't actually do it!). I've been using it for over a week now and used it at the recent C3 tournament.

And before people start telling me it's possible with Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, no, it's not. The only reason they can turn around is due to a clause in their B moves. Otherwise, reverse Falcon Punches would be possible to use forwards.

BTW, if someone can pull that off, post a video >_> theoretically it should work, but I never got it to work.

EDIT: Oh yea, side B works out of the turnaround from the initial dash. B only works out of dash. Ike can NOT use Quick Draw out of this. He can use Eruption, which will dodge the move, and then due to his short initial dash, he can Eruption the same place he was just standing.

 

[skrach8]

hahahah. dont worry man that happens, and its gunna happen alot.

jewdo have u tried this with the A moves at all. This late input thing could pertain to alot of things.

 

[Jewdo]

The only characters it's not possible with are Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, and Pit. Pit can cheat though since he can turn around during his B anyways.

That's what I thought about Pit at first, but he can pull off a B-Reversal. The difference is very subtle - normally, Pit can only turn around AFTER the bow is drawn, but with the B-Reversal, he can turn around before the draw animation even begins. The effect is also pretty minor - it only benefits Pit if he wants to release the arrow immediately in the opposite direction and the few programmed-in turnaround frames will make the difference between the arrow's success or failure. Not a likely situation, of course (I'd just use a different move if it came down to that), hence the conclusion in the original post that it doesn't add anything new to Pit's game. An oversimplification, yes, but that's my personal conclusion.

@skrach8 - You know what? I never thought of that before! That's a really, really good idea. If anyone can confirm A/Tilt/Smash-Reversals for me (I lent my Wii to a Wii-less Smash fan over the weekend), please do. I'll update the thread to reflect the discovery with full credit to both skrach8 and the smasher that pulls it off (video proof preferred, but will accept replay data).

On a note of lesser importance, has anyone been able to do a blue-ball B-Reversal with Samus? I couldn't pull it off, but I can't see any reason why she wouldn't be able to do it. Maybe she's another Special Case somehow? Then again, since the timing is based on animation frames, it would be different for each character. I'll give it another shot when I get my Wii back (again, I'm Wii-less for now), but I tried a few times last week without success.

 

[FartKnocker]

@ Jewdo: Thanks for the thread and info. Also thanks for being willing to don the flame retardant OP suit and make this post in the midst of all of the elitist and n00b *******es out there.

On a note of lesser importance, has anyone been able to do a blue-ball B-Reversal with Samus? I couldn't pull it off, but I can't see any reason why she wouldn't be able to do it. Maybe she's another Special Case somehow? Then again, since the timing is based on animation frames, it would be different for each character. I'll give it another shot when I get my Wii back (again, I'm Wii-less for now), but I tried a few times last week without success.

I had a hard time with this too. I could do turnaround B but not <whatever we're calling this> with Samus's CS. I kind of shrugged it off after giving it a few go's so I can't conclusively say she cannot do it. If I figure out anything later I'll let you all know.

@ Taymond: You should apply for a middle school principal position. You seem well-equipped for dealing with prepubescent, maladjusted children. I give you props for keeping me entertained while you dealt with the ignorant masses completely missing the point.

 

[Shukudai]

@Rebel

For your benefit i just went and did a B-reversal video with Captain Falcon for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McX0I-mYVxY

He appears to have no Falcon Punch B-reversal, as you can see. However, he CAN B-reverse his side B, and it clearly shows when it's recorded in 1/4 speed like that. He still benefits hugely from being able to B-reverse his side B too.

So at least WRT to "And before people start telling me it's possible with Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, no, it's not", well, yes, it is But I think you were more looking for a video of a B-reversed Falcon Punch, which doesn't look possible.

To all the people saying it's Melee's turnaround B, stop making yourselves look silly already

 

[skrach8]

technically ur the one who deserves the credit. so dont worry bout it. and as for the name. y dont u just call it the jewdo reversal. i mean JEWDO is like martial arts stuff, no?

 

[Shukudai]

More vids up.

Ganondorf's (useless) B-reversals - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tES5AX_WKqc
Ike's (very useful) B-reversals - still encoding on youtube, give it a few minutes.

(.... a few minutes later) edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4jLW9ZxPR4 there you go

Hope you guys appreciate the effort.

re-edit : wow ganondorf's look glitchy as hell haha

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

The basic thing should be called a b-turn, since that's literally what it is. THAT term is easy to say, easy to type, and very easy to understand.

I think recoil should apply to anytime the momentum is reversed.

And possibly least reasonably of all, the thing where you reverse your momentum but ultimately not your direction (since you turn twice) could be called the db-turn, or double b-turn. Technically the "double" applies to the turn since it happens twice and the B only happens once, but the lower case "d" looks like a backwards "b" so it's like there's 2 "b"s standing back to back. Those could be the double "b"s, if you think about it.

 

[Rebel581]

That's what I thought about Pit at first, but he can pull off a B-Reversal. The difference is very subtle - normally, Pit can only turn around AFTER the bow is drawn, but with the B-Reversal, he can turn around before the draw animation even begins. The effect is also pretty minor - it only benefits Pit if he wants to release the arrow immediately in the opposite direction and the few programmed-in turnaround frames will make the difference between the arrow's success or failure. Not a likely situation, of course (I'd just use a different move if it came down to that), hence the conclusion in the original post that it doesn't add anything new to Pit's game. An oversimplification, yes, but that's my personal conclusion.

That's still nice to know. I wasn't able to get the timing down so I assumed it wasn't possible since I could get it with every other character within a minute at most. There actually seems to be a period where you have to wait to turn around, so I need to figure out how to do that consistently. That will fire probably 5-10 frames faster.

I could've sworn I've done it with Samus before. I'll have to check that.

And Captain Falcon can't do the reverse B. He can't do a regular Falcon Punch backwards. If he could, that would be a good technique for Falcon players (although definitely not that great). The reverse version is more powerful.

And apparently, you can do this with side-B's too now 0_o I had believed it was only on neutral B moves (never tried side-B). Interesting.

 

[Shukudai]

@Rebel

For your benefit i just went and did a B-reversal video with Captain Falcon for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McX0I-mYVxY

He appears to have no Falcon Punch B-reversal, as you can see. However, he CAN B-reverse his side B, and it clearly shows when it's recorded in 1/4 speed like that. He still benefits hugely from being able to B-reverse his side B too.

So at least WRT to "And before people start telling me it's possible with Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, no, it's not", well, yes, it is But I think you were more looking for a video of a B-reversed Falcon Punch, which doesn't look possible.

To all the people saying it's Melee's turnaround B, stop making yourselves look silly already

More vids up.

Ganondorf's (useless) B-reversals - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tES5AX_WKqc
Ike's (very useful) B-reversals - still encoding on youtube, give it a few minutes.

(.... a few minutes later) edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4jLW9ZxPR4 there you go

Hope you guys appreciate the effort.

re-edit : wow ganondorf's look glitchy as hell haha

>_< REBEL581!

hi and bump from previous page.

 

[tenyearwarranty]

The basic thing should be called a b-turn, since that's literally what it is. THAT term is easy to say, easy to type, and very easy to understand.

Very literal, sort and sweet. I vote for it. Off topic, any chance you'll be making another character tutorial/AR video for SSBB SuperDoodleMan?

 

[Taymond]

@SuperDoodleMan, your "db-turn" already has a name. It's a Recoil Special. It doesn't need renamed, it needs that name reinforced. A Recoil Special is a turnaround B then a B-Reversal, resulting in only momentum being reversed.

@Rebel581, your confusion on the possibility of certain characters to perform B-Reversals does indeed lie in your incorrect assumption that this only applies to neutral B attacks. This applies to ALL specials. Again, ALL Special attacks have at least the potential for this to work. There is no part of this mechanic that requires your Control Stick to be neutral when B is pressed. You can B-reversal a Marth counter just the same as a TL arrow. A final time, this technique does not refer only to neutral B attacks. So Falcon can do it. Just not with the Falcon Punch.

There are certain moves that defy the mechanic because of their own particular overriding effects. Falcon and Ganon's neutrals are some, Bowser's side-B, I believe, is another. There are also moves that get no noticeable or noteworthy effect, like Falcon or Pit's side-B, but they still work. They're just pointless.

Idunno about B-turn. There's nothing inherently wrong with it. It's a viable, descriptive name, but I personally just don't really care for it. I think a modification of the temporary name, B-Reverse, might be one to consider. I can't imagine anyone could claim that B-Reverse isn't descriptive enough, and it separates it from the turnaround B in term, as well.

 

[AFroFish]

The B-sticking is the best thing you should use in brawl.

 

[Shukudai]

jesus, it's like you guys don't read posts by people with low post count or something. Taymond, Rebel, again there's VIDS up demonstrating all manner of B-reversals -_-;

Also Taymond - CF's side B B-reversal isn't useless, it's just useless in the air. On the ground it still allows him to turn around instantly as he's running away from an opponent for a surprise attack.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

you could just tap the opposite direction on the control pad while in the air and then press B.

this is how i reversed my falcon punches in melee. it works in brawl as well.

its an alternate way to reverse standard B

 

[Taymond]

Sorry, Shukudai, I didn't mean to appear as if I was ignoring you. I was actually trying to reinforce what you said to Rebel, not undermine it. I guess I just didn't specifically mention that. And you're absolutely right, I should've specified in the air. It certainly has use on the ground.

 

[drag0nfeather]

THIS IS NOTHING NEW. MELEE HAS THIS. It was most prominent in Falco's short-hop laser game where you do a retreating SHL by doing a turn-around special attack.

THE ULTIMATE QUESTION IS, is this only possible with neutral B-attacks in Brawl? It doesn't need its own name. It would just be added to the list of stuff that's changed from Melee to Brawl saying that you can't turn around using special attacks with any one other than your neutral now.

I don't know if I'm gonna check this thread again so if anyone has the answer, just pm me. It would seem as though some characters can still do a turn-around B with certain attacks. For example, Ike's B-forward, Pit's mirror shield (I KNOW this can be done), maybe G&W's bucket, Dedede's B-forward, etc.

 

[Shukudai]

sorry drag0nfeather, it's nothing like turnaround B's in melee. For starters, the actual command input is different. Secondly, if melee's turnaround B had properties like the B-reversal, Falco's retreating SHL would've been nerfed to $hit.

Key differences, once again :

1. Turnaround B is BACK, NEUTRAL, B-MOVE..... B-reversal is B-MOVE, BACK.

2. Turnaround B is not doable from a dash, B-reversals are.

3. Turnaround B preserves momentum, B-reversals COMPLETELY switch horizontal momentum. See above posts for vid examples.

Oh, and your ultimate question was answered already. In theory all B-moves (e.g all of Ike's) can be B-reversed, with exceptions (e.g Ganondorf and CF's neutral B, which has its own inherent turnaround properties).

 

[skrach8]

lol i already know whats going to be said next. GET EM'... lol.

 

[Jewdo]

Thank you all for pointing out that all B moves, including Side, Up, and Down-B, can be B-Reversed. I've updated the main page to include this information. I've neglected putting it up for some time now, so I'm sorry for the confusion and the delay.

 

[TrevynThOt]

I like SuperDoodleMan's name for B-turn.

I think when you use it to change aerial momentum it should be called air boosting

It's an amazing trick and helps make brawl a more technical game

-Forward

 

[3GOD]

You might want to link to this thread (or just copy the data if you want) in the first post:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166774

It's a list of all the moves that can be "B-reversed."

 

[Hybrid222]

Thanks for the guide. Even though its widely known, its nice to have something comprehensive.

 

[Jewdo]

Thanks, 3GOD. Reference has been added towards the beginning/middle of the first post.

Man this thread is old... just look at the time gap between posts #103 and #104! I honestly didn't expect attention to come back to it, especially since the advent of the new sticky. Speaking of, your list was also added to the sticky awhile back. It's been very useful. ^ ^