Attention! You all suck at Brawl.

[pirkid]

Please don't double post.
This thread dies with a final thought. HuGs against the world. HuGs would win purely from support value. :D

 

[legendofme]

Hmm. Nobody sucks since we all just started, and noboby is good neither. Why not just say we are all noobs?

 

[pirkid]

Hmm. Nobody sucks since we all just started, and noboby is good neither. Why not just say we are all noobs?

If we're all noobs, we're all veterans too. There's no skill point you have to pass.

That's the whole debate that's been going for 4 pages.

 

[Eternalfire]

I disagree. Some players are really adapting well to the new gameplay changes. I think that counts for something.

In a couple of years, they might be considered average, but for right now, they are good players.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

you people are taking this into ridiculous proportions

nobody is good right now we dont have any clue what combos into what we are still inventing BASIC stuff here

its OBVIOUS that nobody is good and nobody is really showing ANY form of mastery of this game

 

[Dragonbreath]

you people are taking this into ridiculous proportions

nobody is good right now we dont have any clue what combos into what we are still inventing BASIC stuff here

its OBVIOUS that nobody is good and nobody is really showing ANY form of mastery of this game

Well, the opening post did tell everyone in the world that they suck. It's natural that some people would misinterpret and jump to conclusions. Hell, I almost did. Then I saw it was Hugs.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

Sticky for awesome. This is why good players need to post more.

 

[Niko_K]

Thank god a respected player finally said that. props HuGs

QFFT 10char

 

[Skyshroud]

Ugh, everyone needs to stop abusing relativity!!!

Ok, to start off, HugS is perfectly correct here. We do suck. It all has to do with the concept of floor and ceiling. Right now we are at the floor of the game. There is a lot of construction to be done until we can work on the ceiling. (For those not following the metaphor, we still have no idea about the depth of this game as it is constantly being discovered.) Now, you can't say, "But if you think like that nobody will ever be a pro!" This statement ignores the ceiling concept, as there is a limit to the amount that can be discovered/learned. The discoveries are going to come in a basic shape, which would be a steep slope that gradually starts to get less steep. Once we see the slope getting less steep, (i.e. we really start to slow down on the discovery of new things) then we can start making judgments about who is "pro" and who isn't. And this curve of learning WILL happen, I can guarantee it. Basically, it has to do with the nature of learning. The more time we spend playing brawl the more we learn, AND THE LESS THERE IS DO DISCOVER. This makes it much more difficult/unlikely to discover new aspects of the game. Things always go like this, which is why companies of online games now frequently add downloadable content/expansions to games. They push the ceiling higher and alter the learning curve again. Basically, we just have to discover stuff and be objective. Nothing is GOOD. Things are only NEW. Sure, we may think that technique x is the greatest in the world, but we do not know it. We just know there is something else out there. This is basically what HugS is saying. You can't jump to conclusions about person x being good because he is nowhere near as good as the ceiling level, which we will eventually get close enough to so the metagame stabilizes. Wait until that happens to make judgements.

Oh, and as far as this thread not being needed, it absolutely is. The people arguing that we suck are (mostly) the ones who understand the concept? What kind of logic is that! HugS directed this because there are people who go around making comments about people being GREAT at Brawl. Don't bother posting in the thread if you already know it makes sense, everybody who is not making ridiculous comments gets that.

Finally, people are getting too stuck on one comment of HugS' post. "We all suck at Brawl." That is not even close to being everything he said. Before you go saying his entire argument is flawed because of one comment, read the entire post.

 

[WoapGang]

I'm a bit confused... what exactly were you waiting for HugS to do?

waiting for him or anybody actually, to clear up the "nobody's good" this is basic **** that we're learning. And for those of us who don't even HAVE the game, we honestly have no right to say who's good or not unless you're comparing them to YOURSELF.....which u can't rly do if u don't have the game.....


Edit: and to the person above me.....Good **** Job

 

[dvt]

god you're all dumb. hugs knows there a middle ground guys, he just said we all suck because there are people saying some people are "professional" brawl players, so they are overexxagerating how good the player actually is. whilst hugs is explaining that they only SEEM good now but they are definitely NOT pro, because it's obvious that with more time people will get better and better. and he admitted that he was being a little extreme in his topic title only because there are so many people being extreme about how good a player is.


though my opinion is that all of you suck and will never be as good as me in brawl, ever. even if i do not play this game and you spend 5 years mastering it, you will never be as good as me. so in my eyes, his topic title is true. because in comparison to me, you all suck at Brawl.

and no, i don't even own this game.

that just shows how much all of you suck.

(that was sarcasm btw, in case some little angry teenage boys start typing up a paragraph for me trying to flame me because they couldn't catch the sarcasm)

 

[dvt]

note: i am still better than all of you.

 

[Santini]

A little harsh, but I agree.

 

[TheLetterJ]

you people are taking this into ridiculous proportions

nobody is good right now we dont have any clue what combos into what we are still inventing BASIC stuff here

its OBVIOUS that nobody is good and nobody is really showing ANY form of mastery of this game

We don't have any idea what is the final form of mastery of brawl so you can't say that "Hey these guys suck because they haven't mastered the game"

If you pick up a game and are naturally good at it but haven't yet mastered it does that still make him bad?

Just IMO everyone saying "OMFG HuGs says that we all suck and hes a good melee player he must know what he is talking about" but just IMO i don't think that he knows what he is talking about because he hasn't seen the full potential of the game and neither have we all so no one has the right to say who is good and who isn't

 

[NotEz]

I agree and disagree at the same time


The people who say that they or someone else is pro at this game i think are wrong. no one is pro yet.

But I think people that say they or someone else is really good is perfectly true. I've seen a ton of videos of Brawl by now and there are people that are a TON better then others.

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

And now reading this makes sense as well.
Can I have some cookies btw?

Sure!

On Topic;

Oh boy... Now people are agreeing for the sake of it. And denying it for the fun of it...

Visual Respresation Of Concurrent Coversation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swo_KvScRAE

To end this before it turns into a spam fest (Not that it will) how about it gets the sticky or the lock? Or both? I'm sure no one ment anyone offence or harm, we are all fellow smashers here so whats the point eh?​

 

[unknownforce]

This is an amusing thread.

I essentially agree with Gimpy and Hugo in all but one point, but the point could not be made without going into a slightly complicated discussion about perception and how those of us who have reached a high status in a venture are also going to hold slightly unrealistic perceptions of skill. However,
I don't think it would really accomplish anything, seeing as it would simply be a post in a thread of many.

Hugs, I think that the best way you can approach this topic is by being as polite as possible. I know it can be tough, since many of the comments have been highly rude from the youtube players, but the best way to change their minds is to use logic without putting them down. Saying things like, "This game is still in such an undeveloped state that it would be impossible to label any players" is far more likely to be effective. But then again, logic may not work on those who would prefer to use any excuse to build more flames.

Hmm, I guess it's a complicated matter and comes down to personal preference as to the best method of dealing with those we disagree with. It becomes more challenging still when we are confident in the accuracy of our opinion.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I beat HugS in the Brawl demo at E for All. Im pro.

 

[orintemple]

Some day we will look back at these early vids and laugh at how bad they are, that is proof that we suck.

 

[TheMintyCookie]

There is more to life than to get irritated by people who say they're good at a game.

I'm good in brawl.

 

[Dogenzaka]

This doesn't need to be stickied. Common sense doesn't need to be stickied.

And no, I've seen some people who don't "suck" at Brawl and actually seem pretty good. Compared to others at least.

 

[Takeshi245]

As if I didn't know that already. I don't even have the game and I know I'll suck...until I get better. They're that, and I know you're not pros at the game, but you're better than the majority that play Brawl. Of course, that doesn't mean you're good as you said before. That's his point, folks, though he was being quite harsh about it.

 

[Eternalfire]

Ugh, everyone needs to stop abusing relativity!!!

Ok, to start off, HugS is perfectly correct here. We do suck. It all has to do with the concept of floor and ceiling. Right now we are at the floor of the game. There is a lot of construction to be done until we can work on the ceiling. (For those not following the metaphor, we still have no idea about the depth of this game as it is constantly being discovered.) Now, you can't say, "But if you think like that nobody will ever be a pro!" This statement ignores the ceiling concept, as there is a limit to the amount that can be discovered/learned. The discoveries are going to come in a basic shape, which would be a steep slope that gradually starts to get less steep. Once we see the slope getting less steep, (i.e. we really start to slow down on the discovery of new things) then we can start making judgments about who is "pro" and who isn't. And this curve of learning WILL happen, I can guarantee it. Basically, it has to do with the nature of learning. The more time we spend playing brawl the more we learn, AND THE LESS THERE IS DO DISCOVER. This makes it much more difficult/unlikely to discover new aspects of the game. Things always go like this, which is why companies of online games now frequently add downloadable content/expansions to games. They push the ceiling higher and alter the learning curve again. Basically, we just have to discover stuff and be objective. Nothing is GOOD. Things are only NEW. Sure, we may think that technique x is the greatest in the world, but we do not know it. We just know there is something else out there. This is basically what HugS is saying. You can't jump to conclusions about person x being good because he is nowhere near as good as the ceiling level, which we will eventually get close enough to so the metagame stabilizes. Wait until that happens to make judgements.

Oh, and as far as this thread not being needed, it absolutely is. The people arguing that we suck are (mostly) the ones who understand the concept? What kind of logic is that! HugS directed this because there are people who go around making comments about people being GREAT at Brawl. Don't bother posting in the thread if you already know it makes sense, everybody who is not making ridiculous comments gets that.

Finally, people are getting too stuck on one comment of HugS' post. "We all suck at Brawl." That is not even close to being everything he said. Before you go saying his entire argument is flawed because of one comment, read the entire post.

First off, Hugs said something everyone knows already. We know we suck compared to our future selves. We know the game will get much deeper than we know now.

Secondly, the same can be said about anything. Gimpy sucks at Melee because we might discover a new technique that will change the game. Barry Bonds sucks at baseball because a new strategy might be discovered. Yeah, the odds for discovering more stuff in Brawl is higher than established games, but so what? That doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

Thirdly, what is wrong with saying ____ is a good Pit? We are not judging him by our future knowledge. We are judging him by today's standards for what "good" is. Judging people by what we may or may not discover about the game later is unnecessary and stupid.

Yes, Hugs. You are good at Brawl. FOR NOW.

 

[TheMintyCookie]

EternalFire wins.

I'm good at brawl.

 

[Skyshroud]

First off, Hugs said something everyone knows already. We know we suck compared to our future selves. We know the game will get much deeper than we know now.

Secondly, the same can be said about anything. Gimpy sucks at Melee because we might discover a new technique that will change the game. Barry Bonds sucks at baseball because a new strategy might be discovered. Yeah, the odds for discovering more stuff in Brawl is higher than established games, but so what? That doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

Thirdly, what is wrong with saying ____ is a good Pit? We are not judging him by our future knowledge. We are judging him by today's standards for what "good" is. Judging people by what we may or may not discover about the game later is unnecessary and stupid.

Yes, Hugs. You are good at Brawl. FOR NOW.

You missed the point. We can't make judgments about something that is so rapidly changing that nothing can truly be established. That is the point. Wait until things start to stabilize, then begin to talk. Right now we just need to keep everything objective and not RATE things. Discuss, explain, reveal, do whatever you like, but nothing can be rated until there is something we can reliably relate them to. That was my point.

EDIT: Aznspikes, Eternal Fire hasn't won yet, don't jump to conclusions like everyone in this thread seems to be doing.

 

[1337pengwin]

Wow. Everyone just likes this because it's "harsh" and makes them think against what they know. What babies. There are people who are good at any game. Period. Just because he is saying something different doesn't make it profound. And then because he is self-deprecating it makes it seem honest and right? Makes no sense. People are good at this game and who is hugs to define what it means to be good or define for all you babies what it means to be good and say something is good.

Someone said: "Thank god a respected player finally said that. props HuGs"

So gay how pro you guys think you are that you are all knowing. So arrogant. People are good at this game even though it has only been out like a week or whatever. Just because they are not the best doesn't mean they are not good. There are good Pit players to see. Godo meaning better than whatever else is out there. And then someone stickied this crap b/c it's hugs and you all would do anything to suck him off.

peace

 

[legendofme]

god you're all dumb. hugs knows there a middle ground guys, he just said we all suck because there are people saying some people are "professional" brawl players, so they are overexxagerating how good the player actually is. whilst hugs is explaining that they only SEEM good now but they are definitely NOT pro, because it's obvious that with more time people will get better and better. and he admitted that he was being a little extreme in his topic title only because there are so many people being extreme about how good a player is.


though my opinion is that all of you suck and will never be as good as me in brawl, ever. even if i do not play this game and you spend 5 years mastering it, you will never be as good as me. so in my eyes, his topic title is true. because in comparison to me, you all suck at Brawl.

and no, i don't even own this game.

that just shows how much all of you suck.

(that was sarcasm btw, in case some little angry teenage boys start typing up a paragraph for me trying to flame me because they couldn't catch the sarcasm)

I see.

:embarrass I would still money match anyone over 300 in melee or Brawl I'd win 10-0.

 

[Goopygoo]

This man sums up what I tryed to say. I'm off to make a cup of tea...​

Does that mean you'll stop kicking ass?

ANYWAYS: HugS, I understand what you're trying to say. But, if that's the case, then isn't everybody also amazing at Brawl? After all, if you're saying that we suck because nobody's learned enough about techniques and strategies, then aren't we also saying that everyone's the best because they can't be surpassed? If that's true, then we're all pros.

 

[TheMintyCookie]

ok. 1337pengwin wins. You winner, you.

 

[Antinegative]

What a waste of space. This is the dumbest post I've had the pleasure of reading in awhile.

How the hell do you know who is good/not good at Brawl right now? Can you see into the future? Is it absolutely impossible that somebody here on these boards has reached the peak with a certain character through some serious dedication and ability? No? Then shut up. Worry about how much you suck individually and let other people do the same for themselves.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I beat HugS in the Brawl demo at E for All. Im pro.

Lol I did too. XD

But seriously, no one isn't trying to claim that others are amazing. Most of us are simply saying that the present players are good for their standards. It's inevitable that players will eventually get better as time passes.

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

Does that mean you'll stop kicking ass?

Well Roffle my Waffles! Took my ol' noggin a while to figure that one out! >_<


And yes, I'm afraid I will have to stop. I'm on a tea break.

*Offers Cookie*​

 

[Skyshroud]

If you read the entire thread you would probably understand something, but you didn't. This thread is only worthless because people like you are just randomly spouting comments in response to reading very little about the topic. Unfortunately, it is only going to end up a flame fest like a lot of other worthy topics, so I'm done because people fail to listen to logic.

For the last time, for those who missed it the first two times, you can't compare anything in an unstable area. Things need to stabilize before we can truly determine who is good and who isn't so stop making judgments.

EX: Instead of saying, "Jigglypuff is god tier!" say, "Jigglypuff seems to have some combos that can do a lot of damage and has decent speed/recovery. This keeps everything completely objective (contains no ratings as to good or bad, just explains that she is powerful (can do a lot of damage, and can move/recover with decent proficiency) and doesn't derive any conclusions from a topic we really know nothing about.

NOTE: The above example is not necessarily true. I just made it up to prove a point, I have no idea how powerful/fast Jiggs is.

EDIT: Directed at Antinegative for the most part.

 

[Sonic Zero X]

Guys Chill Brawl Wont Be Here For A While

 

[Sandwich]

If doesn't matter if they're better than me, I'm still going to ZA WARUDO them all over their face.

 

[Sonic Zero X]

Ok Then???

 

[GreenKirby]

 

[gamer8]

Yeah, it's getting annoying that people think there already pros.

 

[Sandwich]

Yep, okay then.
Besides, who needs skill when you have...
"SHOW ME YOUR MOVES!"
"SHOW ME YOUR MOVES!"
"SHOW ME YOUR MO-" "LANDMASTER MUTHA****ER!"

 

[Azamgi]

I think you are absolutely right.

After a year or so, then we shall start seeing the best of the best emerge.

I have a feeling we're going to have some new stars.