At this point, where can Smash go when it comes to third parties?

[Dinoman96]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06...ters-receive-no-priority-for-super-smash-bros

Adding third-party characters should be considered a very special case. In the last game, when we added Sonic and Snake, there were lots of different hoops to jump through as far as getting approvals and making sure all the parties involved were happy with the way things went. You can consider it a very special circumstance for that to happen,

So with the recent Rayman rumors turning out to all be an elaborate hoax, I kind of wonder at this point...are there any other possible third party characters that make sense to include?

Honestly, I'm kind of glad Rayman didn't turn out to be playable. I just don't think he would of fit in. Not so much in terms of aesthetics, mind you, but in terms of star power.

The thing is, to have non-Nintendo characters in a big Nintendo crossover game is going to be a very, very big deal, and thankfully Sakurai is very smart when it comes to handling this. Every third party inclusion thus far has been a massive gaming icon. Pac-Man, Snake, Sonic, and Mega Man are some of the most famous characters in gaming and are easily Top 20 VG characters material. In other words, if there was ever a Mount Rushmore based on video games, the four aforementioned third party characters would be likely to have their heads sculpted on it along with Mario's.

I just don't think the same could be said for characters like Bomberman, Bayonetta, Geno, Travis Touchdown, Klonoa, Earthworm Jim, and so on. They're small time in comparison. The inclusion of third party characters shouldn't make one go "who?" like most of the characters I just mentioned, nor should their inclusion be based around "advertising" their game or series. There's an almost mythical aura of having third parties in Smash, and throwing in random C/D listers like Bayonetta would completely destroy that. It's an exclusive's club, basically. Only the best of the best can get in.

But now, with Sonic, Pac-Man and Mega Man all in, I'm not sure if there's any other appropriate possible additions quite on their level. I'd like to see Snake return, obviously, but I'm not sure how possible that might be.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

I agree with ya, OP.
I guess the only serious contender would be Simon Belmont.

 

[Dinoman96]

I agree with ya, OP.
I guess the only serious contender would be Simon Belmont.

I suppose, but I think it's safe to say that if Konami gets a rep once again in Smash, it'd be Snake. Aside from obviously already being in Smash, Metal Gear is a much more popular and important series for Konami.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

I suppose, but I think it's safe to say that if Konami gets a rep once again in Smash, it'd be Snake. Aside from obviously already being in Smash, Metal Gear is a much more popular and important series for Konami.

I don't know about Metal Gear being more important and popular than Castlevania, Castlevania has been going strong and has has done so on multiple platforms for decades now whereas Snake has missed out completely on the Nintendo demographic, which matters especially in terms of Smash.
But I suppose we can all just agree Konami's the only one with characters suitable for this criteria.

 

[Braydon]

Monster hunter should be a character.

 

[Dinoman96]

I don't know about Metal Gear being more important and popular than Castlevania, Castlevania has been going strong and has has done so on multiple platforms for decades now whereas Snake has missed out completely on the Nintendo demographic, which matters especially in terms of Smash.
But I suppose we can all just agree Konami's the only one with characters suitable for this criteria.

For one thing, have the recent Castlevania games done that well in terms of sales and such? Secondly, MGS has sold twice as much as Castlevania, the former having sold about 40 million and the latter only selling 20 million.

Monster hunter should be a character.

I'd also argue that we should limit it to one character per company. We already have Mega Man representing Capcom, it would just seem a bit redundant to also throw in Ryu, Phoenix Wright, etc and it would also be a bit unfair to the other third parties that have only one character, and if we gave them more the roster would start to get bloated with all these unneeded secondary/tertiary third party characters.

 

[Braydon]

Why would you limit it to company and not even series? And further more why would you want to limit it at all? Putting in 2 capcom reps doesn't mean they'd be required to add another sega rep, or another rep for anyone.

I don't understand what's with this idea that 3rd party companies all need to have the same level of representation, why would they have to all be equally well represented?

 

[Kirbyfan391]

For one thing, have the recent Castlevania games done that well in terms of sales and such? Secondly, MGS has sold twice as much as Castlevania, the former having sold about 40 million and the latter only selling 20 million.

Lords of Shadows 2 bombed. Hard.
You are correct about MGS selling twice as much as Castlevania. However, Resident Evil has sold more than Mega Man, yet it was Mega Man that got in, so I don't think sales alone determines it.

 

[Zzuxon]

These are the 3rd party characters that I feel are at least minimally qualified for smash. I'm not saying they should all be in(They shouldn't) but they have the star power to make them at least somewhat justifiable.

 

[Putuk]

I agree with ya, OP.
I guess the only serious contender would be Simon Belmont.

I want him in so he can finally reunite with Mega Man and Pit.

 

[Megadoomer]

Aside from bringing back Snake, I'm not sure. There are a few companies that I can think of which are major enough to be considered, (Ubisoft, Tecmo-Koei, Square-Enix) but I'm not sure who would represent most of them.

Ubisoft's probably the most straightforward, with Rayman. He's already in Smash Bros. as a trophy, and the new 2D platformers basically give him an entire A-button moveset on their own. I'm not sure how well the leak was received in a general sense (a lot of the complaining about it that I saw was due to Ubisoft's recent actions, which has little to do with the actual character), but he seems to be the best choice as far as that company's concerned.

For Tecmo-Koei, they've been supporting Nintendo for a while now, and they're a company that's been around for a while, but I'm not sure who would work as a character is concerned. Ryu Hayabusa has longetivity, but I'm not sure what he'd bring to the table that would differentiate him from someone like Sheik or Greninja (then again, I'm not overly familiar with Ninja Gaiden).

For Square-Enix, there's the issue of which series to represent. Final Fantasy is the flagship series, but there have been so many protagonists that it's hard to pick one who would be chosen. (Cloud is probably the most iconic, but he's only had the occasional cameo appearance in games like Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories; even Snake had significantly more than that) They could go with someone generic, like Black Mage, Moogle, or Chocobo, but I don't know if that would be as well-received.

Kingdom Hearts characters seem to be out of the picture, given that the KH-originals are owned by Disney, and while Dragon Quest could be an option, most of its popularity comes from Japan, so I don't know if they'd choose it over Final Fantasy, which has a more general appeal.

 

[Freduardo]

I'd like Bub and Bob (along with Neo Geo being brought back to the Wii U Virtual Console) and Bonk (along with Turbografx 16 being brought back to the Wii U Virtual Console).

I'd like Simon Bellmont. Because Castlevania is legendary. And yes, reuniting the N Team would make the 80s kid in me happy.

 

[majorasmaskfan]

Bring back snake...

 

[BluePikmin11]

It will probably be just Pac-Man, Sonic, and Megaman in future Smash games for eternity.
DLC though does open a gate for other third-party characters to join the game.

 

[Strofirko]

It comes more on how you see the support threads for third parties for DLC around here:
The big 3 around here are:
Snake-One of the most unique cut veterans.
Layton-2 great trilogies.
Rayman-The secret approach by a trophy.
Later down the line comes stuff on the likes of bayonetta and agnes from bravely default,popular because of the recent games,something that bother me off a little I say.
Then on the bottom we have some indie characters that pops up once in a while and characters that can pair up with the likes of megaman but has 0 DLC support,the former if they have no games until Smash 5 I can say they will be forgotten real quick,the latter can be waiting for the next title announcement for increasing support,some will be big(Bomberman/Belmont) others not really (Slime/Black Mage).

 

[kantoskies]

I really don't think they should worry about adding any more when there's still so much that they could do with first-party stuff, which is way more important. Both in terms of expanding franchises already in the game and adding in new ones. I think we have just the right amount with the three characters we have now.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Konami: Snake, Bomberman, and Simon Belmont (All deserving. Especially Bomberman and Simon)

Square Enix: Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest choices.

Level 5: Layton

SEGA: Bayonetta

Tecmo Koei: Ryu Hayabusa

That's all i can say for logical choices right now. Ubisoft could happen in the future still, and i'd full expect Rayman over any other choice, but that's as far as eastern third parties go without digging into the Indie games. (Which i'm fine with since i want Shantae. lol. Never happening.)

 

[Chandeelure]

Bomberman.

 

[volbound1700]

Rayman and Bomberman would be great fits. Both are regulars on Nintendo systems as well. Simon Belmont would be great to but Konami would push for Snake first.

I am in agreement that I do not see many great third parties left unless you add more characters from series already included (like Tails from Sonic).

I also forgot Black Mage. He would work as well.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I'd disagree about Bomberman. The guy has been around forever, and has had a ton of games on Nintendo consoles. He's certainly iconic and loved.

Aside from him I'd argue for some FF representation. They could go with one of the old school FF characters, but it would probably be best to go with something more iconic to the series like Black Mage or Chocobo. I

 

[T1000416]

I personally don't believe Sakurai's comment to be as ironclad as he tries to make it sound. He's just blowin' smoke. But I do agree that there has to be either some degree of star power and/or sensible Nintendo/gaming history behind a third-party characters inclusion. All that said, there is room for a few more third-party that wouldn't be "stealing a slot" on the character roster. Here are two characters I think are worth serious consideration.

Rayman:
I might be wrong but Rayman is the only surviving "mascot" character from the early to mid 90's to continue having mass produced games released. To continue on for a quarter of a century is certainly an accomplishment his creators and developers should be proud of and should also be an indicator to something I see a lot of people rejecting. He is an icon now! Or, if he's not, he is on the cusp of becoming an icon. He is over as **** right now but not a lot of people want to admit it for reasons I haven't been able to fully figure out yet. For 20 years his games have come out and with each major title release his brand has only gotten more popular and more respected. The recent success of 'Origins' and 'Legends' and the reaction to his faked inclusion in Smash4 is proof of this, I say.

Oh, and since I didn't get the opportunity in the Rayman thread on account of it being closed for understandable craziness, this was my reaction to the leak being a fake.

Simon Belmont:
Castlevania isn't exactly popular or relevant anymore. But it is still beloved and iconic. And it is still beloved and iconic for originally being some of the best Nintendo games you can play. Not Konami games but Nintendo games. Before any of that stuff started to matter more to fans, games like Castlevania and even Mega Man were and sometimes still are referred to simply as just being Nintendo games. "Well, technically it's not, but whatever." In the case of Simon Belmont and Mega Man, their inclusion in SSB shouldn't be considered a "special circumstance." It is an obligation. An obligation because they are Nintendo stars! SSB is an all-star lineup of Nintendo characters. There is no doubting Nintendo have delivered on that promise. But there will always be a place in that all-star lineup that Simon Belmont is meant to fill.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

At this point, where can Smash go when it comes to third parties?

The only place left...home.

Or full circle, its time he returns.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Snake has the advantage of also being a Smash veteran. Not only has he been in Smash Bros. before, but he truly IS a Video Game legend. Metal Gear Solid is a large and popular series. It has appeared on Nintendo platforms, Snake already proved to be a very unique character in the series...what more could you ask for?

Something people misinterpret about 3rd parties imo...is that a major thing with 3rd parties is that they AREN'T Nintendo. So when people say that, "they aren't Nintendo enough", in some cases that helps. Not to say that Master Chief or Nathan Drake are welcome to join, but that certainly adds to somebody like Snake. He meets all requirements. It's all a matter if Kojima and Sakurai talk about it really.

Rayman, after these fake leaks, has become a high interest character of mine. He's pretty damn unique, being a character that can bring a unique playstyle with enough imagination. Physical spacing/zoning character, good with long range stuff, but not close range.

While Rayman isn't Sonic or Pac-Man, I would still consider him a big name Video Game character, especially over the likes of Geno or characters in that caliber. Bomberman is a cool idea, but he's owned by Konami, and Snake is the front runner in that part. Snake also beats out Simon Belmont for a few different reasons, not to take away from Simon's possibilities either.

I think the 3rd Party possibilities are small. Snake is great option for several reasons, and would certainly be viewed as a character in at least SIMILAR caliber to the 3 we have now. Past that...I don't know.

 

[T1000416]

Bomberman is a cool idea, but he's owned by Konami, and Snake is the front runner in that part. Snake also beats out Simon Belmont for a few different reasons, not to take away from Simon's possibilities either.

Does Snake's inclusion really make Bomberman and Simon Belmont's potential as characters that much harder of a possibility? Where does the "one character per company" mindset come from? The fact that Konami has the three of them is quite a convenience that Nintendo should have looked into.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Does Snake's inclusion really make Bomberman and Simon Belmont's potential as characters that much harder of a possibility? Where does the "one character per company" mindset come from? The fact that Konami has the three of them is quite a convenience that Nintendo should have looked into.

In my opinion, seeing more than 1 character from any company could be seen as favoritism. That's all there is to it. I highly doubt three characters from the same company would be added, let alone two. For example, SEGA has Sonic, but I can't see another SEGA character getting in. I believe it is a one character per company basis. But that's just me.

 

[loganhogan]

The 1 character per company seems like a weird rule to me, has Sakurai even acknowledged that?

Anyways I'd say we should think outside the box, so to speak. Smash bros made big hops before including only first and second party characters, then it included 3rd party characters, now it included characters that weren't seen as logical for smash bros (Villager).

Maybe next they'll aim for much bigger icons, like say Mickey Mouse? However among third party characters I believe the Monster Hunter, Bayonetta, Layton, and Shantae could be possibilities. True that some of these are smaller icons than others but they've already covered the big guys now. These four characters already have more grounds with Nintendo than some of the 3rd party characters that have been in smash *looks at Snake*.

 

[Strofirko]

The main problem with SEGA characters are because they are all overshadowed by Sonic characters,only exception is bayonetta because she caught nintendo fans interest,the rest is on a forgotten well.

So Nights,my waifu can't happen.

 

[volbound1700]

Agree. Sega would likely go with another Sonic character before pulling into the rest of its lineup.

It does seems that Smash fans respond better to the Nintendo heavy 3rd party characters. Snake did not fit that bill but Sonic, Megaman, and Pacman do to an extend. Rayman, Bomberman, and Simon Belmont are the next big names that fit the bill of being heavily known on Nintendo consoles.

I do agree with comments that Konami would push Snake over Simon Belmont and that is what makes his chances very low.

Out of all the third parties, Rayman makes the most sense as the next in line to be in.

 

[BandanaWaddleDee]

Endou Mamoru

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Seeing as all the super big and legendary third party characters are in, the only place I can really see it going is to pure fan demand. Now that we're out of the "God-Tier" of third party characters, we're on the second highest level, which I like to call the "Iconic-Tier", with characters that are very well known amongst hardcore gamers, but might not be as recognizable to casuals. The problem is that there are A LOT of characters on this tier of popularity, and almost every one of those characters are pretty much equal is their previously mentioned popularity. This would mean that the characters chosen from this tier to be in the next Smash would be the ones that the fans plead for the most.

When speculation for Smash 5 (I know Wii U is Smash 5, but everyone and their grandma knows it is Smash 4) starts, there will be one, maybe two third party characters that stand out as the most wanted. For Brawl it was Sonic, and for Smash Wii U it was Mega Man.
This could be a variety of characters. It could be a Square-Enix Character like Black Mage or even Slime, or it could be Simon Belmont of Castlevania, or maybe even Rayman, as the leak gave him a HUGE surge in popularity (I'm seeing people go out and buy Rayman games to see what he's like).

My pipe dream is Banjo-Kazooie, but that will obviously never happen if Rare stays under Microsoft's possesion, as they will ask for an extremely large amount of money for the rights.

That also brings me to another important factor: the ease of obtaining the character's rights for the game. In terms of who's rights would be the easiest and most affordable for Nintendo, I would have to say Rayman, as Nintendo and Ubisoft currently have a strong relationship, with them being one of the only third party systems still developing games for the Wii U. Actually, now that I think about it, SEGA and Namco are also some of the only third parties making Wii U games, and they have their characters in Smash, though that may be a coincidence, as Sonic was already in Brawl and Namco helped with this game, which we all know secured Pac-Man's slot. I'm not sure about Capcom's relationship with Nintendo right now, as I don't really follow Capcom, but I know they still make the Monster Hunter games for them.

It's also worth noting that as each generation of gaming passes, companies' relationships with each other change, so by the next Smash game, Nintendo may have a successful console, with great third party support.

 

[Sakuraichu]

I think Dr Eggman, Snake and Professor Layton would be good third party fighters.

 

[ErenJager]

Well at this point I feel its nearly at its point unless they some how manage to add one or two more.

Crash & Spyro are a no go, both owned by activision which is now competing with Nintendo's amiibo with Skylanders.

Any Sony or Microsoft owned characters are a no go.

Any Square Enix rep is more than likely a no go, as Sony is a major stake holder in that company.

Maybe a Konami rep since we've had one before... Bomberman?

Techmo Koei? Idk
Ubisoft? Idk

Konami would either be ...

Snake (Brawl nostalgia however the metal gear series has seemed to distance itself from Nintendo and the mature character maybe out of Sakurais vision now)

Bomberman (Long History with Nintendo but not initially a Konami character was originally a Hudson character which was absorbed by Konami, so they may not support this character. His cartooniness fits the bill for smash tho).

Simon Belmont (Long history with nintendo plus has that N team going from the 80's, seems to be a more mature character which may not fit the smash brand pr sakurais vision for this itiration. Konami may only wnt Snake or no dice)

 

[Spatman]

I'm agree with the op, but I consider Rayman that character who could be the 5h tp character in smash.
Yes, He isn't so iconic and famous and historical as the ohter four, but immediately after them, there is him.
He is active from 4-4.5 consoles' generations, by now!

Moreover, nowadays Rayman is tied to nintendo consoles more strictly than Snake (and of course than Pacman and Megaman, who are by now almost irrelevant)

 

[Tino]

All I care about is seeing Snake make a return so I can unite him with Rosalina and Link as my main three.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I personally think our current third party lineup is just fine. It wouldn't be a problem with me if it remained unchanged for the next title, but i would only be okay with another third party character if it's either Snake or Tails. NO ONE ELSE THOUGH, especially not Bomberman.