[AT] Run Stop Cancel

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Thats a pivot grab; that was already possible in Brawl



You could shield out of the run every smash game so far.

The technic I explained is not about IASA frames.
You can ftilt, dtilt, fsmash etc. out of the run with no visible lag.

I believe he was referring to when Mario cancelled his sliding animation into a jab. That was not possible in Brawl, and opens up the possibility of more neutral options. Characters like Fox with a solid jab, fair traction, fast tilts and ability to space well with pivot cancels will be a real threat when grounded.

 

[VhatDeHel]

I noticed something like that in the Sonic reveal trailer. Mario dashed, went into his dash stop animation, but then quickly canceled it into jabs. That's pretty cool and I hope this is something we can definitely utilize like canceling dash into crouch

 

[Big-Cat]

Why isn't this being talked about more?

Seriously, this and Pivot Canceling change up the game greatly.

 

[VhatDeHel]

Why isn't this being talked about more?

Seriously, this and Pivot Canceling change up the game greatly.

I guess maybe it's been overshadowed by the leaks. But I agree, I think this stuff is pretty interesting and I'm surprised more people haven't been talking about it. It gives us options on the ground.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

People keep forgetting this is a thing.

And it actually gives a lot of ground options and maybe even lets people crouch cancel.

 

[Raijinken]

People keep forgetting this is a thing.

And it actually gives a lot of ground options and maybe even lets people crouch cancel.

I sincerely hope this doesn't lead to crouch canceling. It devalues characters who have armor on their attacks.

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't think it's in Smash 4. What he's probably referring to is crouching to cancel the run recovery. Sort of like a foxtrot.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah I'm refering to that.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I'm excited to explore the possibilities that this technique will provide for. I can definitely see it offsetting some of the nerfs Marth received, for example, as while his endlag is rather bad, being able to reliably hit out of a dash makes smart players less punishable. Imagining a tipped Fsmash out of an interrupted dash is pretty scary. Characters with strong, open-ended jabs, like Captain Falcon, are also likely to really appreciate this technique.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Why isn't this being talked about more?

Seriously, this and Pivot Canceling change up the game greatly.

I think people wrote it off as what bowser was doing, even though yikarur stated it has no visible lag.

I just want to see it in action.

 

[VhatDeHel]

I think people wrote it off as what bowser was doing, even though yikarur stated it has no visible lag.

I just want to see it in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aplSLN4FJ_o#t=540

55:52 Villager dashes, stops running (you can hear the brake sound from Animal Crossing), which causes him to go into his end dash animation, and immediately f-tilts.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

I'm excited to explore the possibilities that this technique will provide for. I can definitely see it offsetting some of the nerfs Marth received, for example, as while his endlag is rather bad, being able to reliably hit out of a dash makes smart players less punishable. Imagining a tipped Fsmash out of an interrupted dash is pretty scary. Characters with strong, open-ended jabs, like Captain Falcon, are also likely to really appreciate this technique.

In my mind, I always assumed Marth would be dashing up to people and Dtilt-ing instead of SH aerial-ing everywhere in Smash 4.

 

[DakotaBonez]

So, has it been confirmed that this mechanic is exactly the same as Fox-trotting?
If not, can we give it a shorter name, like Skid-cancel?

I have a feeling this might be removed from the final product though, ya never know.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

In my mind, I always assumed Marth would be dashing up to people and Dtilt-ing instead of SH aerial-ing everywhere in Smash 4.

Smash 4's landing lag would essentially prohibit this from being viable. Maybe Marth's old playstyle will live on in Lucina, though, similarly to how Melee Falco is sort of a recreation of Smash 64 Fox.

 

[VhatDeHel]

So, has it been confirmed that this mechanic is exactly the same as Fox-trotting?
If not, can we give it a shorter name, like Skid-cancel?

I have a feeling this might be removed from the final product though, ya never know.

I hope not. It seems as if they may have even done this on purpose, since it's been shown in some official gameplay videos. Mario does it in the Sonic reveal trailer, and Wii Fit Trainer cancels dash into forward smash in the Smash Direct when they are showing off the Mario Galaxy stage. There's probably more but that was all I could think of atm

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Considering Namco Bandai was behind it, Tekken, I think it was.

But it is a wait and see thing for the final version. Though if they did see it, idk why they would remove it, it's not like it really inhibits gameplay or adds a high end tech barrier.

I'm pretty convinced with the team helping make this. It was intentional.

 

[Big-Cat]

So, has it been confirmed that this mechanic is exactly the same as Fox-trotting?
If not, can we give it a shorter name, like Skid-cancel?

I have a feeling this might be removed from the final product though, ya never know.

Dash Canceling.

 

[TimeSmash]

Considering Namco Bandai was behind it, Tekken, I think it was.

But it is a wait and see thing for the final version. Though if they did see it, idk why they would remove it, it's not like it really inhibits gameplay or adds a high end tech barrier.

I'm pretty convinced with the team helping make this. It was intentional.

To take a Melee mindset "Oh, your aerial momentum from an air dodge is transferred to the ground? No big deal, no one will notice"

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Well this might be more support for the theory of ground game getting buffed and air nerfed.
Little mac not low tier :D

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I hope not. It seems as if they may have even done this on purpose, since it's been shown in some official gameplay videos. Mario does it in the Sonic reveal trailer, and Wii Fit Trainer cancels dash into forward smash in the Smash Direct when they are showing off the Mario Galaxy stage. There's probably more but that was all I could think of atm

This.
It's basically an AT that they purposely added.
....wow....now THAT'S something you don't see very often. xD Anyways...glad Sakurai is permitting little things like this.

 

[ibmutt]

I'm still not convinced this techinique couldn't be done in Brawl.

In Brawl, stopping can cancel a dash. Stopping is done by letting go of the analogue stick, just like run stop, while dashing. Like OP described, the stopping animation in Brawl can be interrupted.

Tilts and smashes can be buffered in Brawl. Buffering is a tool that allows inputs to be executed as early as possible. Hence the frame where a buffered action starts is called the IASA frame (interruptible as soon as frame). So the frame before the IASA is effectively the end of the previous action; the last frame where you can't do tilts or smashes. This end, for stopping, happens before the stopping animation seemingly ends like Lucario's fsmash or Marth's dtilt. Point being, stopping could appear to be cancelable by tilts and smashes if done after that end. Although you can cancel a stop with some moves in Brawl.

The speed of run stop in the demo, and so the attributes described by OP, could just mean run stop effectively ends sooner than stopping does in those Brawl videos I showed. I know this is likely the case with Bowser. Although my reasoning is fairly long.

A while back, I thought perhaps other characters followed Bowser's trend and eventually I got to briefly test four characters at an event in London. Bowser seemed as fast as my research suggested; Bowser's run stop ended notably faster than Brawl. The run stop of Pit and Luigi seemed about the same. WFT's run stop seemed long. Usually I play at 1/4 speed and work up to full speed to get a feel for the buffer windows for stopping in Brawl. Even though I couldn't do that for demo, I'm pretty certain I did buffer for all four of those characters.

Depending on how this post is received. I could talk about other features of stopping in Brawl that perhaps apply to run stop in the demo and the final build which admittedly is a big reason why I wrote this.