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Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

BigglesWorth

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I realize there will never be a 100% for a flow chart. I am just trying a helpful tool right now to work on my punish game which is the weakest part of my game except for consistent spacing. Neutral I am actually pretty good at. I always know when several players who are better than me are going to grab and/or going to jump. I read a lot of things in tech chasing and even call out the right options a lot of the time but spacing my wavedash in or my move timings are always off. I am trying first to improve my punishment game and hopes that working on getting the most out each hit will result in more consistent spacing. It's that recognizing the microsituations I can parry as well I am having trouble with. I can parry grab more successfully then just parrying into a nair (which seems like the opposite of how it should be). Thank you Perhapsman and Purpleletuce for responding. Seriously, just getting an idea of how other Yoshi think of getting more out their moves informs my practice.
 
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Kimimaru

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Apr 19, 2012
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Anyone Yoshis on the East Coast USA/Midwest want to play via netplay? I played for the first time today and it was great! There was basically no lag or delay when I played with someone around my region, and there is a nice little ranking system that you can partake in if you want.

Also kofinater, I played Beer, a Jigglypuff player that said he knew you and you beat him all the time, haha.
 
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Kimimaru

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Sorry for the double post, but does anyone have any knowledge about the G&W MU? I played the best G&W I've ever played on netplay today in a BO5 friendly and narrowly lost. His aerials seem to wall Yoshi out so much and he makes it very hard to get in. I fiddle around with G&W in friendlies sometimes so I know how he works, but I have played against only 2 or 3 before, and this one was the only very good one.
 

kofinater

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ok, that match-up actually kind of sucks pretty bad, imo its a little harder then marth because he can wall you out but you can't cc or Armour through hits as much as in the marth mu. One quirky thing is d-throw forces knock down so you can jab reset after d-throw. You also need to stay pretty grounded as G&W has solid aerials but the ending lag is pretty slow so try and bait and punish with dash dance. Get a feel for the G&W recovery pattern, G&W mains will most likely try and fall deep to sweet spot in which you can just steal ledge, after you steal it once or twice they'll go high and you can d-tilt. Also look for shield pokes since his shield is pretty garbage.
 

Funkermonster

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As someone mostly new to Yoshi and Competitive Melee, what are the easiest possible combos and the first things I should try as Yoshi (I'm assuming DJCs are one of them?
 

Kimimaru

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First things: DJC, Wavedashes, Wavelands, L-Cancels

I would focus on all of the above with emphasis on the latter three.

Aside from that, read up as much as you can about the game and understand it well. See what each character's moves are and watch videos of good players. Also look at frame data, as it is very useful; you can view how long it takes for characters' moves to come out, how much they lag, when they're invincible, and a plethora of other things.

Best of luck! Be sure to ask more Yoshi questions here if there's anything you're concerned with.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
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Is there like a cheat sheet of all of the crazy character specific tech (or normal tech that is essential to Yoshi play) Yoshi has?

I'm not necessarily wanting someone to spell out each individual thing (if I knew the name of the technique I'm sure I can find it), but I'm considering learning Yoshi instead of a tired old space animal when I can't think of anything else to practice. It would help me organise my practice in a way that I get a lot more out of my time if I had some sort of reference as to what I should be working on.

It would also good for newbies, as having a list of what you are expected/should know/be able to perform at a competitive level would be a great asset for recruiting.
 
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MrHazuki

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Lund, Sweden
That is a great idea, since there are so many techniques.
Preliminary list:
Wavedash
Waveland
Short hop, fast fall, l-cancel (SHFFL)
Double Jump Cancel (DJC)
Double Jump Landing (DJL) via DJ
DJL via aerial
Ledgedash
Ledge aerial (not as easy as it looks ^^)
Haxdash
Edge Cancelled Eggs (ECE)
Reverse ECE (RECE)
Dash attack-drop
Parry Jump
Parry Grab
Parry Upsmash
Parry Nair (SH or DJC)
Parry DJL
Yoshi Bomb Edge Stall
Shield Drop
 

Sashimi

Smash Ace
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May 25, 2013
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To that list I would include the Aerial Interrupt from the ledge since it gets you the most actionable intangibility from the ledge that Yoshi can get. Parry > Wavedash is also useful against players who use a lot of projectiles. Platform cancelled Uair is great too, including out of shield drop.
 

BigglesWorth

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Learning to Lightshield and Shielddrop uair on platforms seems to be really good to learn early on (at least for me), because it allows you to be generally safer. Being able create space for yourself is important when learning a character that's as brutal to fail anything with like yoshi can be. That's just what is happening while learning yoshi for me.
 

MookieRah

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I've actually been practicing Shield dropping u-airs with Marth, and shield dropping in general for a while now (although not intensively). I understand that for Yoshi that it is such a required tech due to his shield limitations. It basically makes platforms a place where he can maneuver well even when he is in shield. He also gets great mileage out of his u-air and n-air from a shield drop. Also being a M2 main I'm very familiar with DJC tech, so that I have under my belt already.

It looks like I would need to learn all his ledge tricks first, as they are probably techniques that wouldn't be too hard to pick up as they are similar to other tech that I know. I'll have to do the DJL stuff as well. The parrying stuff I assume is fairly hard to learn, but is more of an automated process? In any case, when I actually have more time I'll be sure to research this stuff more and make some kind of practice plan.
 

Funkermonster

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More Questions I've got:

1. Best stage choice for Yoshi between the 5 tourney viable stages that'll help him most? I mostly find myself picking Yoshi's Story or Battlefield, and I honestly dunno what I'm doin..
2. (I still didn't get an answer for this) BNB combos? I was told in rmusgrave's guide that you can combo of an Ftilt, but never got what can be strung off of it.
3. What to do in midair when my opponents are below me if I can recover back? I probably wouldn't be worrying too much If I were facing someone else, but I went to some friendlies last Friday and the Majority of my opponents were using Marth, and I'm kinda scared because his sword seems to outrange almost anything I've got. Against others, a little Nair and Dair have saved my skin a few times though.
 

Kimimaru

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I should've posted yesterday, but after I clicked "Post Reply" the site went down for maintenance. I'll retype what I posted:

1. It depends on the matchup. I'd go YS against Sheik and Marth but not against Falco. I'd choose DL for Fox but not for Peach. In general, avoid FD since Yoshi is very good at utilizing platforms. Battlefield is more often than not a good choice in any situation since it's arguably the most neutral stage in the game. Each player has his/her favorite stages, so if there's one you really like to play on then I'd go for it.

2. Sorry for not answering you before; I wanted you to focus primarily on playing Yoshi and learning Melee since you stated that you were new to the game.

In any case, Yoshi's D-throw and U-air are his most potent combo tools. DJC U-airs work great on fastfallers like Fox, Falco, and Falcon for racking up damage at low percents (starting from ~20%). You can often get at minimum 2-3 U-airs on any character in the game at low percents. F-air -> U-tilt/jab reset also leads into U-air combos. Against Fox and Falco U-throw -> D-smash is a good finisher that works starting from ~85%. Also don't forget eggs, since well placed ones can lead into all sorts of combos strictly from the positional advantage they give.

Some of my favorites include weak N-air -> D-smash, last-hit B-air -> Nair, Egg -> N-air/U-air. Experiment and see what works (make sure to have other options available in case they DI favorably). Low angled F-tilt can also lead into U-air and N-air, but it's better as a disruptor. Here's a good example of F-tilt being used in a combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ABeWc5_aI&t=7m9s

3. Are you recovering from the stage? If so, you can use Yoshi Bomb (Down + B) to grab the ledge (make sure you're not holding down by the ledge otherwise you won't grab it). It's extremely hard if not impossible to punish if the opponent is even a mid-distance away from you.

If you're being juggled above the stage, you have several options:

1. Absorb the hit with your double jump armor (that is if you're at a low enough percent where the attack will either barely break your armor or not break it at all)
2. Waveland onto the stage/platform
3. (as a mixup) Egg Roll onto the stage; Egg Roll resets your vertical velocity fairly quickly and you have a surprising amount of horizontal control over it in the air.
4. Yoshi Bomb if they misspace the aerial.

Against most characters you can just N-air and get out, but at times you'll want to mix it up.
 
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kofinater

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Man on a Ledge 21:
Me vs 34s(Puff) W: http://youtu.be/x6PEDeZjMhY
Me vs M@V(Shiek) W:http://youtu.be/Q9px4bXhRTo
Me vs Mexico629(fox)W: http://youtu.be/sFlDMXXMsao
Me vs Sweet(Shiek)L: http://youtu.be/ETesqg05vcQ
Really happy about how this tournament went for me, beating the fox was definitely a high point as i havn't beat a local fox in a while since it seems like most of them have me/yoshi figured out, and i lost last time we played really trying to incorporate safe shield pressure and dash dance away from that shield pressure and it looked like it opened more opportunities for me. Had a pretty cool edge guard vs 34s @4:03.

Shape of Melee to Come 5:
Me vs Coach(Peach) Lose: http://youtu.be/Xu79qB41QHI
Me vs Ralis(Falco) Lose: http://youtu.be/gBtBSCmM2ro

Bad tournament for me but on the upside made it out of pools even though i felt like i played bad, perhaps on a better day i could have snagged a good seed out of pools. I think i generally have a good idea of what i did wrong again ts the falco, came back from the ledge using the side platform too much, didn't edge-guard super well the whole and was too aggro from wavelands leading into grabs. But how do i do the peach matchup at somepoint in the set i just did really lazy nairs, i don't really have any fun playing against peach and i find it hard to stay concentrated for entire sets when i play one. Critique always appreciated if I had to chose sets it'd be the one vs Sweet and the on vs Coach. but otherwise don't feel obligated I think i have a good idea of where i went wrong and wanted to share if you guys wanted to steal stuff. TBH4 this weekend and my r1 pool is looking doable if any of you guys are going hmu.
 
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BigglesWorth

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Man on a Ledge 21:
Me vs 34s(Puff) W: http://youtu.be/x6PEDeZjMhY
Me vs M@V(Shiek) W:http://youtu.be/Q9px4bXhRTo
Me vs Mexico629(fox)W: http://youtu.be/sFlDMXXMsao
Me vs Sweet(Shiek)L: http://youtu.be/ETesqg05vcQ
Really happy about how this tournament went for me, beating the fox was definitely a high point as i havn't beat a local fox in a while since it seems like most of them have me/yoshi figured out, and i lost last time we played really trying to incorporate safe shield pressure and dash dance away from that shield pressure and it looked like it opened more opportunities for me. Had a pretty cool edge guard vs 34s @4:03.

Shape of Melee to Come 5:
Me vs Coach(Peach) Lose: http://youtu.be/Xu79qB41QHI
Me vs Ralis(Falco) Lose: http://youtu.be/gBtBSCmM2ro

Bad tournament for me but on the upside made it out of pools even though i felt like i played bad, perhaps on a better day i could have snagged a good seed out of pools. I think i generally have a good idea of what i did wrong again ts the falco, came back from the ledge using the side platform too much, didn't edge-guard super well the whole and was too aggro from wavelands leading into grabs. But how do i do the peach matchup at somepoint in the set i just did really lazy nairs, i don't really have any fun playing against peach and i find it hard to stay concentrated for entire sets when i play one. Critique always appreciated if I had to chose sets it'd be the one vs Sweet and the on vs Coach. but otherwise don't feel obligated I think i have a good idea of where i went wrong and wanted to share if you guys wanted to steal stuff. TBH4 this weekend and my r1 pool is looking doable if any of you guys are going hmu.
It's weird. Normally, I try to reverse jump cancel short throw eggs to juke Peach and use the different egg trjectories (waveland off platform ff dj reverse egg for example) to punish her float. I prefer wd in dilt since crouch under a lot of stuff and punish a lot thing she commits to. I could be wrong. I prefer fthrow towards ledge at low percents as a finisher, because it basically means wd in dsmash to send at low angles which is key to the matchup. Pivot fmash, or egg > fair as well to finish her off. Egg lay is cool. Most of the time I see it work with like Vman doing it multiple times in a match is after a shielddrop or a platform dance to mixup on the opponent approaching Yoshi while he's going off a platform. Rising bair then descending bair was useful against a Peach I played called TheDoorMouse (I still lost but it did work well and I got kills off him). I don't like being that low as you were with your bair, it feels unsafe against peach. Maybe I am just new but I always feel like poking for a hit or two and moving up and away with bair is better against her to avoid dsmash or nair. Any corrections on this guys?
 
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Purpletuce

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Jan 3, 2012
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So I ran a tourney not too long ago, and recorded a few sets... but apparently my recording gear is trash, so watch at your own risk. I had one set vs someone I play all the time, who is a really good Fox (esp. against Yoshi). It can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=px28PtMGIfc#t=110
I had one other set recorded where I was playing against a ICs, I lost, but wasn't really trying to play smart, and just missed lots of technical things. Wouldn't bother watching it.

I haven't really had time to play/watch/post very much lately, and haven't had time to practice at all for quite a while. Probably will still be very busy for a while...
 

SNEAKY_URKEL

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Vegas, Baby
I find myself often times getting stuck in the air and being unable to land safely. During situations like this, how should I cover my landing/what should I do/how do I get back on stage safely?
 

Sashimi

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@ SNEAKY_URKEL SNEAKY_URKEL Depends significantly on the matchup and stage imo, but some things to consider are DJ armor and Egg Roll. Using Yoshi Bomb or Dair to get down are both common but are poor options, both because of landing lag and bad priority.

DJ armor only works if your opponent is hitting you with something that will lose to if, of course. Egg Roll is gimmicky but the short jump you get from it can be helpful occasionally to get out of situations. Be sure you can get out of the egg safely or else you'll just end up in the same situation as before. If you're near the edge, Yoshi Bomb can be a quick way to the ledge, but won't always be safe. If there are platforms, your best bet is to get to one of them and, if necessary, shield.
 

BigglesWorth

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Is side-b ever a good idea?
I have seen it. It's a thing in fighting games I would call a "Drunken Master Mixup." Its something that is wholly unsafe, but could work once or twice if an opponent never sees it coming. Recognizing situations in which it is useful as a recover option when your opponent commits to an edgeguard that you can slip by and then never doing that again for the rest of set is a real thing. It's something they have to be aware to really punish, but it is really easily punished. So is it useful? From what I have seen, kind of. Its there and it can force your opponent to respect the fact that there is one more option, and if they commit without considering it they might just have lost a crucial opportunity to win the match. Should newer players, like myself, be using it...my guess not often until fundamentals and punish game are good enough to where mirco situations create set wins (upper mid level, I would say). That's the notes on this, I have. Not that its right, but its what I have taken note of.
 
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Kimimaru

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Is side-b ever a good idea?
For attacking, definitely not, but as BigglesWorth mentioned it can be used as a recovery option only very sparingly (1-2 times per set with enough time in between the uses). I use it infrequently enough so that I get away with it if I do use it.

Aside from recovery, there isn't really another use for the move.
 
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hamyojo

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Mar 13, 2012
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Can you sheild drop out of the parry frames?
Also... I feel so awful for it, but I've been playing a lot of Sheik in friendlies lately. I'm thinking I'm going to end up a Sheik/Yoshi main. She comes very easily to me, and not just because she's an easy character.
Alsoalsoalso, except for one odd instance I haven't placed out of top 4 in any local tourney going almost all Yoshi. I won my school's in house Melee tourney with Roy and Mewtwo though, lol. I constantly feel myself getting a lot better, and playing Sheik has helped my mix up game on Shield even more. I love this character.

But I do hate how some people get really tired of losing to my Yoshi. It's now a moral issue for me sometimes, and kind of a big one. I constantly feel like I'm winning just because they don't know how to play against my character (even though everyone has played against me a lot). I think this moral issue is also why I might make the switch to Sheik some time soon. I can see a future where I go mostly Sheik in tourney, but keep up my Yoshi and Sheik together in friendlies and stuff. I'll always have that Yoshi counter pick, but I don't know if playing only Yoshi in local little tournies is really all that helpful to the community (since DFW's active scene is pretty bad).
I don't know, do you guys ever have a moral issue playing a low tier? I know it's harder to play Yoshi than Fox or Falco, but I sometimes do feel like a cheater.
 

Mind Trick

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Dude, why would you feel awful for playing something else than Yoshi? And about that moral issue, Yoshi is somewhat of a gimmicky character and it's up to your opponent to know of those gimmicks. If they lose because of that, they had to know the matchup better lol

Yoshi works way better as a secondary, to surprise counterpick people with imo. I'm kinda regretful I hadn't picked up a better char sooner.
 

MrHazuki

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Mar 22, 2006
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Taking a hiatus isn't wrong. Throughout the years I've used Yoshi, Doc, CF, Fox, Falco, Peach, Sheik, Marth, Ganon and Pika in serious tournaments, so I know how fun it can be to mix things up. As long as your Yoshi skills don't become dull (which actually is likely because they are so specific compared to other characters', excl. IC) you should enjoy some well earned diversity.
 

BigglesWorth

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Can you sheild drop out of the parry frames?
Also... I feel so awful for it, but I've been playing a lot of Sheik in friendlies lately. I'm thinking I'm going to end up a Sheik/Yoshi main. She comes very easily to me, and not just because she's an easy character.
Alsoalsoalso, except for one odd instance I haven't placed out of top 4 in any local tourney going almost all Yoshi. I won my school's in house Melee tourney with Roy and Mewtwo though, lol. I constantly feel myself getting a lot better, and playing Sheik has helped my mix up game on Shield even more. I love this character.

But I do hate how some people get really tired of losing to my Yoshi. It's now a moral issue for me sometimes, and kind of a big one. I constantly feel like I'm winning just because they don't know how to play against my character (even though everyone has played against me a lot). I think this moral issue is also why I might make the switch to Sheik some time soon. I can see a future where I go mostly Sheik in tourney, but keep up my Yoshi and Sheik together in friendlies and stuff. I'll always have that Yoshi counter pick, but I don't know if playing only Yoshi in local little tournies is really all that helpful to the community (since DFW's active scene is pretty bad).
I don't know, do you guys ever have a moral issue playing a low tier? I know it's harder to play Yoshi than Fox or Falco, but I sometimes do feel like a cheater.
I initially started Peach/Yoshi as a way of having a top tier that is more forgiving for those days my shield drops and everything just are not happening. I have been on hiatus but I am thinking of switching to Doc/Yoshi: Yoshi verse Fast Fallers/Midweights and Doc verse Floaties (which is ironic since Peach is my best matchup even though its Yoshi's worst; due to maining her). Doc, because he's such just well rounded characer and my fundementals are the weakest part of my game. I didn't realize Hamyojo you were DFW. I have played a C. Falcon from DFW who used the gamertag Master Splinter (he goes to the University of Arkansas which is why he was in our area). I would love to get tips from you sometime when I finally can afford to carpool people to a DFW tourney. I have learned mostly from people who mess around with yoshi but never committed to learn his tech so playing someone who has better idea of how yoshis unique movement ties into his spacing would probably do accolades for my spacing issues.
 
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hamyojo

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Dude, why would you feel awful for playing something else than Yoshi? And about that moral issue, Yoshi is somewhat of a gimmicky character and it's up to your opponent to know of those gimmicks. If they lose because of that, they had to know the matchup better lol

Yoshi works way better as a secondary, to surprise counterpick people with imo. I'm kinda regretful I hadn't picked up a better char sooner.
Because I love Yoshi. I want to just main him, but I guess I caught the Leffen and am getting tired of gimmicking people who can't properly deal with his oddities. I like Sheik a lot too tbh.

Taking a hiatus isn't wrong. Throughout the years I've used Yoshi, Doc, CF, Fox, Falco, Peach, Sheik, Marth, Ganon and Pika in serious tournaments, so I know how fun it can be to mix things up. As long as your Yoshi skills don't become dull (which actually is likely because they are so specific compared to other characters', excl. IC) you should enjoy some well earned diversity.
I don't wanna take a hiatus! And actually, I have /tons/ of character diversity. I've actually never lost an iron man in my life! I'll still always play Yoshi, because my #1 favorite thing about Melee is movement and he has by far the most fun movement to me.

I initially started Peach/Yoshi as a way of having a top tier that is more forgiving for those days my shield drops and everything just are not happening. I have been on hiatus but I am thinking of switching to Doc/Yoshi: Yoshi verse Fast Fallers/Midweights and Doc verse Floaties (which is ironic since Peach is my best matchup even though its Yoshi's worst; due to maining her). Doc, because he's such just well rounded characer and my fundementals are the weakest part of my game. I didn't realize Hamyojo you were DFW. I have played a C. Falcon from DFW who used the gamertag Master Splinter (he goes to the University of Arkansas which is why he was in our area). I would love to get tips from you sometime when I finally can afford to carpool people to a DFW tourney. I have learned mostly from people who mess around with yoshi but never committed to learn his tech so playing someone who has better idea of how yoshis unique movement ties into his spacing would probably do accolades for my spacing issues.
I think you should be /very/ specific about which MU's you want your Doc and Yoshi to have. Yoshi's much better vs some floaties than other, and the same goes for Doc.
And yeah I'd love to help ya out if you ever came down here :D I'm not sure who Master Splinter is tbh, sorry :c
 

Sashimi

Smash Ace
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704
Can you sheild drop out of the parry frames?
Yep!

As for Sheik vs Yoshi, you should play whichever character you enjoy the most (or both if that ends up being what you enjoy). At the end of the day, Melee is still a game, and you shouldn't trouble yourself too much with moral questions. If you want to help your community get better, playing Sheik will obviously prepare them more for common matchups. That being said, a good Yoshi is not the easiest thing to find, so you might find it valuable to keep around. Learning to play against a low tier can sometimes be helpful for new players too, I think, if they use it as a learning exercise. Since low tiers tend to have pretty big flaws, it can be a little less daunting to figure out than a top tier matchup where you have less obvious goals in the matchup.

Also keep in mind that you're definitely not the first Yoshi player to try other characters. Aside from aMSa maybe, I can't think of a single Yoshi player who hasn't picked up at least a secondary (myself included with Fox, though I still only play Yoshi in tournament so far). If there's some kind of "characer loyalty" issue you're feeling, let go of that, because you shouldn't feel an obligation to play the game in any way other than the way(s) you enjoy it.
 

hamyojo

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DFW
Yep!

As for Sheik vs Yoshi, you should play whichever character you enjoy the most (or both if that ends up being what you enjoy). At the end of the day, Melee is still a game, and you shouldn't trouble yourself too much with moral questions. If you want to help your community get better, playing Sheik will obviously prepare them more for common matchups. That being said, a good Yoshi is not the easiest thing to find, so you might find it valuable to keep around. Learning to play against a low tier can sometimes be helpful for new players too, I think, if they use it as a learning exercise. Since low tiers tend to have pretty big flaws, it can be a little less daunting to figure out than a top tier matchup where you have less obvious goals in the matchup.

Also keep in mind that you're definitely not the first Yoshi player to try other characters. Aside from aMSa maybe, I can't think of a single Yoshi player who hasn't picked up at least a secondary (myself included with Fox, though I still only play Yoshi in tournament so far). If there's some kind of "characer loyalty" issue you're feeling, let go of that, because you shouldn't feel an obligation to play the game in any way other than the way(s) you enjoy it.
I feel no character loyalty, I play Yoshi because he's fun to move with and I enjoy that crazy combo game. And I play most of the low tiers, a big part of that is to teach people. I've probably taught more people in the current, active scene than anyone else around DFW, so I've accidentally made a massive arsenal of bad characters lol. Plus the good ones, too.
Sheik is one of, like, 3 characters in the game I didn't play. I had the whole impression that she's too easy and not worth my time, so I actually decided that if I was going to main a high tier I'd start with the one I know least about. That has benefited me a ton. My Fox (my Fox especially is pretty good), Falco, Puff, Peach, and Falcon and still better, but I'm determined to do it with Sheik/Yoshi as my mains for at least a long while.
Ugh sorry for all the ranting, but the feedback is helpful.
 

Kimimaru

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
915
Location
CA
hamyojo I can relate to how you feel about winning due to the opponent's lack of MU knowledge. However, at the end of the day we're all playing a technically demanding competitive game where player skill matters more than any other factor. It is up to your opponent to figure out the MU. It isn't much different than playing against opponents who play the same character in completely different styles (Ex. overly aggressive, campy, balanced, etc). Instead, I think you should feel great that you're playing Yoshi in a way that makes his flaws less apparent to players, and that shows that you're a highly skilled player.

With that said, play whichever character suits you best. Many players love your Yoshi (myself included) and like to see you play him, but if you're not enjoying Yoshi as much or your gut is telling you to go with Sheik, then by all means do so.

Also keep in mind that you're definitely not the first Yoshi player to try other characters. Aside from aMSa maybe, I can't think of a single Yoshi player who hasn't picked up at least a secondary (myself included with Fox, though I still only play Yoshi in tournament so far).
Are you referring to playing Yoshi exclusively (even in friendlies) or trying out other character to replace Yoshi? I don't have a secondary, but sometimes I will play my "next-in-line" characters (Ness, G&W) in friendlies. I have also not used anyone else in tournament and do not plan to do so because Yoshi just feels right to me. hamyojo explained it well in the post above. This is the same reason I have never switched mains in any of the other smash games, although 64 is the only one I have two mains in.

To brighten the mood a bit, check out how bad my Fox is in this friendly. My friend thought my Fox was good and wanted me to play him, lol.
 

Purpletuce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
1,316
Location
Corvallis, OR
Can confirm Yoshi players have character diversity. I've played lots of different characters. I think different characters help you break out of certain habits, and give you new perspectives for problem-solving. For example, after one break I have from Yoshi, where I played a whole bunch of Marth I started catching the landings of Peach/Luigi/Marth/Sheik a lot better, and some of that skillset converted over to Yoshi. Don't be afraid to experiment.

Also, if you're feeling bad because they don't know the MU, but they play with you semi-regularly, that is their own fault for not trying to adapt. You're simply exploiting their simple attempts to play against every character the same. Once they start to adapt, they'll be better at adapting in the future, and be better off for it. You're doing them a favor.
 

BigglesWorth

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Of the raging craigs and cadences
I am hoping people will actually be used to Yoshi so we know exactly where he actually stands in the tier list and also would help me practice more because I can develop counter measures to their adaptations and really flesh out how matchups really work. xD
 

SNEAKY_URKEL

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
76
Location
Vegas, Baby
Hey, I have a question about how to practice movement. I know that just drilling it on BF or something is useful, but are there other ways I should practice IN ADDITION to that? I feel like I suddenly do a lot worse against people (although this may be because of netplay lag) and I'm not sure if I should try to just move around really crazy against a friend as much as possible or something.

edit: oh, and can anyone give me any advice on how to make the best out of movement practice? when I drill it I just kind of waveland everywhere, but should I be planning some path ahead and trying to make my movement as smooth as possible? should I practice moving around very specific places? should I just improv and string together as many movement options as I can together while fluidly? I have a lot of trouble getting movement to look fluid, too, by the way.
 
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Sashimi

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
704
Improv is okay when practising your movement, but I find there's a risk of getting stuck with certain patterns and never really deviating from those, since you'll most naturally use the tools that are already easy for you. You can try to imitate movement from videos (Red Essence being a great source) since other players will be doing things that you might not have thought of or might not be comfortable doing right now. It helps to expand your movement "repertoire" in ways that you might not quickly find while improvising.

You can also plan out specific series of movements, and then drill them. This helps to work on specific things more efficiently if you know you need to work on them.
 
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Asquare

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
31
Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Can someone please tell me how to waveland off a platform into a fast fall? I've done it several times by complete accident, but can't figure out how.
 

Purpletuce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
1,316
Location
Corvallis, OR
The best option would be:
Waveland, and then fastfall.

Although, if your waveland is close enough to the edge of the platform, and your joystick was pointed down more than horizontal, you'll buffer a fastfall. Such a waveland would be very short in most situations. This option is very situational, not as reliable, but flashier.

Even further toward the flashy, situational option, you could waveland with a buffered fastfall into DJC Dair AC.
 

Asquare

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
31
Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
When I try that there's always a bit of delay between the waveland and the fastfall, guess I just need to be quicker on the stick. I thought I had seen aMSa do it numerous times, but rewatching a couple of his fights, I think he's actually doing a DJC Uair.
Thanks Purp
 

Purpletuce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
1,316
Location
Corvallis, OR
No problem. Maybe practice fastfalling in anticipation of failling off the platform, to minimize the delay between dropping off and fastfalling.
 

hamyojo

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
551
Location
DFW
I almost took a set off of Wobbles' Marth :cccc Game 1 was last stock last hit, but he pulled out. Game 2 I two stocked him on Battlefield, and game 3 was on FD. It was also pretty close. I love eating up Marths so much, yumyumyum.
And it's a wonderful feeling I've had recently where I'm now beating lots of people who I never have before. Tons of names are being added to my list, and the people left on the hitlist is constantly shrinking... But at the same time someone who I usually beat took a set off me for the first time in awhile, so that kinda sucked. Oh well. I really wish I was in a bigger region, because people are tired of me winning here and are starting to study just to beat me. That's kinda cool and helpful in the long run I guess, but it's very frustrating. I might end up having to start playing Sheik a lot more soon, as she is constantly getting better and seems to make more sense.
 
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