Bones0
Smash Legend
Damn. These callouts. Better fire back with a Yoshi combo vid of your own, Leffen. ;D
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)
- Thread starter Taj278
- Start date
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
I completely agree with Vman. Everybody, everywhere thinks that leffen is a disgrace. =/
Yoshi, with my little experience with him, doesn't have any massively glaring flaws minus his recovery and inability to jump out of shield.@hamyojo... I'm still tryna figure that out... My experience is mainly with Axe, (Pikachu) and it's actually quite well.. I wouldn't say it's best.. but it's all i've actually tried... >>; sorry but the almighty Leffen will have to help you with his knowledge of Yoshi in teams that's never been seen...good luck... that's if he doesn't bash you for asking... or in his words" A ********" question...
I think he has more trouble starting combos than a lot 'cause it's easy to DI away from his f-tilt and things like uair and utilt aren't as fast as I wish they were. A character than could get under other characters and pop 'em up could work really well, as from my experience Yoshi does very well when characters are above him.
In theory, Fox could control the base of a stage, keep characters off of it and forcing them into recoveries or landing on platforms, which Yoshi can easily tech chase and kill from.
Fox, so far, would be my best bet. But, ya know, he's Fox, that's a pretty safe bet.
Maybe Leffen has issues from getting beat by older brothers or something and even then couldn't accept the fact he lost. His older bro (V3torman) always used the controller that had the sticky X button (NTSC), so older bro could always use that against him, but deep down he just liked the feel of the controller more (Is located in 'Murkah), as it was given to him by his "cool" 6th grade friend (combo videos) who lived down the street in 4th grade, Leffen still only being in 2nd grade and very jealous of this.
We may be triggering some PTSD here, guys ;-;
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
^That was painful to read. What are you even talking about?
leffen
Smash Champion
lol you guys seem to be super offended by my half joke post
ive done so much worse, but apparently
i just didnt want start more drama, and just wanted to end it by stating what I thought ( and to start some friendly competition between yoshis, since ive actually started practicing him again)
i dont feel threatened or hate vman or whatever, I just dont consider him as good as me.
maybe that is a crime, but if so then idgaf. I dont feel like I have to "prove" anything against vman or whatever, esp considering his results at apex (this is not meant as an insult btw >_>).
ugh, whatever, if you guys wanna start a hate war on me then fine, go on. I don't really care. just please, contribute something instead (you always say you're not only about drama vectorman, yet you only post about it >_>)
@purpletuce: I see, that explains quite a bit (about why you made the status etc).
@the choking:
You have to try to detail exactly why you started choking though if you really want to fix the problem. Was it choking that made you SD, or was that simply to your execution not being as good as it should? Was it due to lacking game knowledge you SD'd?
After you SD'd, that is a great time to take a breather, realize that you're choking, just wait on the spawning platform and calm down. And yeah, you obviously need to learn from counterpicking puff and why it didnt work.
@Teams: Yoshi is actually really good in teams, but he requires a teammate that has experience with yoshi and depending on what teammate he has and who you are facing you need to change your play style dramatically
Fox is really good because he can follow up your eggs offstage with a shine, he can end your uair strings with uairs, finish of high percent fairs with usmash, and is overall great.
Its a bit tricky to save Fox though, but I think with an experienced fox you could probably do some dope things with reverse ledge canceled eggs jumping of with bair.
You're gonna be playing the "peach" role in this team: your task is not to simply hold stocks, its essentially to go 50/50 with taking damage and giving out damage/setting up edgeguards/combos/kills for fox. You taking a hit is almost always better than your Fox getting hit. At higher percents spamming light shields, (preferably on a platform) and eggs from the ledge is a really good way of baiting out attacks that your teammate can punish.
Jigglypuff is also really good... its very similar to Samus/Jiggs (and that is a pretty damn good team). Jiggs has the ability to deal damage without taking much herself, something that yoshi lacks, and yoshi has some really good rest setups ( bthrow/fthrow sets ups for rests really well, fair/ftilt too)
Jiggs can also follow up yoshis eggs offstage very well, and she can go offstage with edge guards which is one of yoshis biggest problems. She also doesnt need to be saved while offstage which yoshi isn't that good at. Yoshi also helps with her problem of killing at high% unlike samus (at least in PAL).
Peach/Sheik are both probably good, but I havent had enough experience with them yet.
ive done so much worse, but apparently
was insanely offensive and made me out to be some psychopath.
i just didnt want start more drama, and just wanted to end it by stating what I thought ( and to start some friendly competition between yoshis, since ive actually started practicing him again)
i dont feel threatened or hate vman or whatever, I just dont consider him as good as me.
maybe that is a crime, but if so then idgaf. I dont feel like I have to "prove" anything against vman or whatever, esp considering his results at apex (this is not meant as an insult btw >_>).
ugh, whatever, if you guys wanna start a hate war on me then fine, go on. I don't really care. just please, contribute something instead (you always say you're not only about drama vectorman, yet you only post about it >_>)
@purpletuce: I see, that explains quite a bit (about why you made the status etc).
@the choking:
You have to try to detail exactly why you started choking though if you really want to fix the problem. Was it choking that made you SD, or was that simply to your execution not being as good as it should? Was it due to lacking game knowledge you SD'd?
After you SD'd, that is a great time to take a breather, realize that you're choking, just wait on the spawning platform and calm down. And yeah, you obviously need to learn from counterpicking puff and why it didnt work.
@Teams: Yoshi is actually really good in teams, but he requires a teammate that has experience with yoshi and depending on what teammate he has and who you are facing you need to change your play style dramatically
Fox is really good because he can follow up your eggs offstage with a shine, he can end your uair strings with uairs, finish of high percent fairs with usmash, and is overall great.
Its a bit tricky to save Fox though, but I think with an experienced fox you could probably do some dope things with reverse ledge canceled eggs jumping of with bair.
You're gonna be playing the "peach" role in this team: your task is not to simply hold stocks, its essentially to go 50/50 with taking damage and giving out damage/setting up edgeguards/combos/kills for fox. You taking a hit is almost always better than your Fox getting hit. At higher percents spamming light shields, (preferably on a platform) and eggs from the ledge is a really good way of baiting out attacks that your teammate can punish.
Jigglypuff is also really good... its very similar to Samus/Jiggs (and that is a pretty damn good team). Jiggs has the ability to deal damage without taking much herself, something that yoshi lacks, and yoshi has some really good rest setups ( bthrow/fthrow sets ups for rests really well, fair/ftilt too)
Jiggs can also follow up yoshis eggs offstage very well, and she can go offstage with edge guards which is one of yoshis biggest problems. She also doesnt need to be saved while offstage which yoshi isn't that good at. Yoshi also helps with her problem of killing at high% unlike samus (at least in PAL).
Peach/Sheik are both probably good, but I havent had enough experience with them yet.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
you claimed i bullied you when i posted about a prank on you, AFTER spreading lies about me. :\
that excuse certainly does not hold up when you take such massive offense over such silly things.
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
Leffen:
There are without doubt polite ways of telling Vman that you think you are superior to him.
Example: Vman, no one can deny your skill with Yoshi, but I think that mine is better.
It is a shame that you are a terrible person, because the lower half of your post is really helpful. Try to improve your diplomatic skills since they drag you down really far.
There are without doubt polite ways of telling Vman that you think you are superior to him.
Example: Vman, no one can deny your skill with Yoshi, but I think that mine is better.
It is a shame that you are a terrible person, because the lower half of your post is really helpful. Try to improve your diplomatic skills since they drag you down really far.
Get Low
Smash Ace
V3ctorman = Leffen = Lil Fumi in terms of Yoshi amazingness, imo.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
What is even happening? Leffen can be a D***, but it isn't like he is a murderer or something, I think everyone is blowing this out of proportion. At the moment he OS definitely my favorite person to read on the board, because he isn't posting all the bs, he is giving great advice. (Although vman, kimi and others do as well, currently it is mainly leffen. Everyone fluctuates.)
Damn.
@leffen, I was getting frustrated because I was working hard for Djc uair set ups, but missed them, and was getting killed by run up u smash. On the second to last stock I was going for frame perfect / near frame perfect eces, and went to low for the SD. Jiggs was just me thinking the guy was bad and that he would mis space and give me easy set ups, and not being used to a jiggs that can Sdi u throw u air. Against players that level I'm better off going all yoshi, unless I get more experience in that situation.
My experience with Yoshi in teams is pretty limited, but Leffen makes some solid points. Generally the only things I try to add to my team is to tell my teammate to try to cover me when I'm in shield, so I can simply roll into them and be safeish, and that I will try to fall into them as a recovery. (ways they help with Yoshi's weaknessess) Making a Yoshi-launcher sounds really cool, like if your opponent is across stage, light shield in front of your teammate, and have them smash you into them. . . I don't have a consistent teammate because I don't have anyone that consistently goes to tourneys with me/ is willing to team with Yoshi.
Damn.
@leffen, I was getting frustrated because I was working hard for Djc uair set ups, but missed them, and was getting killed by run up u smash. On the second to last stock I was going for frame perfect / near frame perfect eces, and went to low for the SD. Jiggs was just me thinking the guy was bad and that he would mis space and give me easy set ups, and not being used to a jiggs that can Sdi u throw u air. Against players that level I'm better off going all yoshi, unless I get more experience in that situation.
My experience with Yoshi in teams is pretty limited, but Leffen makes some solid points. Generally the only things I try to add to my team is to tell my teammate to try to cover me when I'm in shield, so I can simply roll into them and be safeish, and that I will try to fall into them as a recovery. (ways they help with Yoshi's weaknessess) Making a Yoshi-launcher sounds really cool, like if your opponent is across stage, light shield in front of your teammate, and have them smash you into them. . . I don't have a consistent teammate because I don't have anyone that consistently goes to tourneys with me/ is willing to team with Yoshi.
Nogzor'z
Smash Journeyman
Yoshi boards seems to be getting consistent traffic...
Keep up the advice/drama, buddies. It seems to be somewhat healthy, just don't blow it out of proportion.
Oh and purp, I find your posts to be nice progress checks to read.
Keep up the advice/drama, buddies. It seems to be somewhat healthy, just don't blow it out of proportion.
Oh and purp, I find your posts to be nice progress checks to read.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Didn't expect Angel to stance as pro-drama :o
Also, I'm glad you like my posts as progress checks, I just found out actually that one of the classes I'm taking now isn't needed, so I'm going to have more free time aka more smash time, so I'll be posting more useful things, promise.
Also, that thing I thought I found, 90% certain it is useless except on bad players. . . I'll look more into it, maybe today. I'm smashing with a local for ~90 minutes.
Also, I'm glad you like my posts as progress checks, I just found out actually that one of the classes I'm taking now isn't needed, so I'm going to have more free time aka more smash time, so I'll be posting more useful things, promise.
Also, that thing I thought I found, 90% certain it is useless except on bad players. . . I'll look more into it, maybe today. I'm smashing with a local for ~90 minutes.
Sorry for adding to the drama, just being silly 'cause it's all silly.
Purple, I don't think anything found (or at least put in to words) is useless. Kinda like there's no such thing as useless discoveries to science, it's all connected and there's no reason not to find out everything we can. Good ****.
And for Yoshi with various team mates... I don't know. It's so hard to say with just how weird Yoshi is. Hopefully soon I'll get to play around with different scenarios, I'd love to help advance Yoshi in teams.
Purple, I don't think anything found (or at least put in to words) is useless. Kinda like there's no such thing as useless discoveries to science, it's all connected and there's no reason not to find out everything we can. Good ****.
And for Yoshi with various team mates... I don't know. It's so hard to say with just how weird Yoshi is. Hopefully soon I'll get to play around with different scenarios, I'd love to help advance Yoshi in teams.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
There are some things that are useless in nearly every context. I usually go jiggly or shiek in teams.
Bones0
Smash Legend
What about using egg lay to save them, and let them mash out? They could mash out right away if it's safe, and if a Falcon is jumping out their to knee him, he could even stay in the egg until he falls at or below ledge height. If my Yoshi intel isn't off, no matter how high of a % Fox is, getting hit while in the egg will never knock him out. Even if he doesn't survive, having to deal with a recovering Fox in an egg makes it easier for Yoshi to do some damage himself.
leffen
Smash Champion
Egg lay has more lag than you think, esp when you actually swallow someone (a fox could probably shine both of you while he's still in your stomach) but yeah, it could probably work.
It could probably work even better with Sheik/Peach where you can fulljump out and egg lay while they are still high, and then they can help you get in as well.
also, egg laying someone ->they di into the opponents, and use their 10 frames of invincibility to fc nair, rest, or overall just pressure, is really good lol (esp if they are at higher %).
It could probably work even better with Sheik/Peach where you can fulljump out and egg lay while they are still high, and then they can help you get in as well.
also, egg laying someone ->they di into the opponents, and use their 10 frames of invincibility to fc nair, rest, or overall just pressure, is really good lol (esp if they are at higher %).
Bones0
Smash Legend
Dude, I was just thinking about doing the same thing. Lmk what kind you got when you upload a video. I don't wanna waste a bunch of money since I will probably just use it for friendlies.
wqqqqwrt
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2012
- Messages
- 53
C!Z also mains marth and doesn't play fox or falco seriously <.<
>.>
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Actually ciz plays them as counter picks, for example he went all fox against Foos, the best shiek in our region. (In tourney and he won.)
I'm not saying I'm better than ciz but don't take away from my win
I'm not saying I'm better than ciz but don't take away from my win
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
So are these vids leffen promised a lie?
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
Hopefully not!
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
It is possible. All too often to videos fall through (broke smashers can't afford good setups to record / the stream tv is taken so people can't get recorded / the guy with the recordings is too lazy/busy to put them together)
I'm thinking about getting my own recording setup just because of these reasons.
It would be awesome to see some new Leffen stuffs though.
I'm thinking about getting my own recording setup just because of these reasons.
It would be awesome to see some new Leffen stuffs though.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I wonder if Leffen can beat an entire continent with Yoshi now that Amanda's out of the way. >.>
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Lol Bones trolling.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Did you get a splitter, or will you play on a computer with lag?
Bones0
Smash Legend
After reading those reviews, you must be a very brave man to purchase that product. lol
EthereaL
Smash Journeyman
So, I main Jigglypuff and Falco. I'm going to start maining Yoshi.
Could someone explain to me the:
Shield mechanics
DJC mechanics
Anything else I'd need to know
Thanks
Could someone explain to me the:
Shield mechanics
DJC mechanics
Anything else I'd need to know
Thanks
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
leffen
Smash Champion
The vids were corrupted, sorry guys
Nogzor'z
Smash Journeyman
no worries.
On a recording related note, I remember a thread in the melee discussion that had a good deal of information pertaining to different recording equipment. I've tried searching for the thread, but I've had no luck in finding it. Did anyone happen to bookmark it?
On a recording related note, I remember a thread in the melee discussion that had a good deal of information pertaining to different recording equipment. I've tried searching for the thread, but I've had no luck in finding it. Did anyone happen to bookmark it?
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
There is a ton of 'just starting to play Yoshi' material. Between looking at the thread for picking him up, and watching other yoshis, and playing him, you can get rolling pretty quick. Jigglypuff and Falco will definitely get you better results though. Unless you badly lose to everyone around you, then Yoshi jank will make it seem like you can keep up with them better. . .
Sucks that the vids were corrupted. Speaking about corrupted vids, my vids from that tourney last Saturday were slightly corrupted, may be salvageable though. . . we'll see.
What are everyone's thoughts on low % grab on FFers? (low enough percent where djc uair chain doesn't work) I usually DJC U-air -> attempt tech chase.
Also, yesterday I managed to Shield drop platform cancel U-air -> parry a grab -> shield drop U-air. It looked cool.
I like also this Yoshi activity. . .
Sucks that the vids were corrupted. Speaking about corrupted vids, my vids from that tourney last Saturday were slightly corrupted, may be salvageable though. . . we'll see.
What are everyone's thoughts on low % grab on FFers? (low enough percent where djc uair chain doesn't work) I usually DJC U-air -> attempt tech chase.
Also, yesterday I managed to Shield drop platform cancel U-air -> parry a grab -> shield drop U-air. It looked cool.
I like also this Yoshi activity. . .
On low % against Fox or Falco you can do Running Grab -> DJC N-air -> Running Grab -> (Commence U-air chains here). It's one of my favorite things to do because it looks cool and takes some precision. Against Falcon you can get a Grab -> U-air but I don't know about the rest after that. I honestly think Falcon is a tougher MU for Yoshi than Fox or Falco.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Does DJC nair to regrab actually work? I was trying to grab more yesterday, but I had trouble converting (vs. Marth/Falco). Specifically vs. Falco, it didn't seem like I had time to uair after dthrow, but if I can nair and regrab instead, then that would be great. I'd rather not rely on it if they can buffer a spotdodge or roll though.
Leffen (or anyone else that can PS well), any advice on PSing with Yoshi? I have really good consistency on my Marth PSs, and I am pretty good at PSing with Falco, but Yoshi's shield is so weird that it's hard to tell what's going on. Does dashing away help him like it does with Marth (I'm sure crouching does)?
Also, I think I read this somewhere, but what does Yoshi's shield avoid? He has hitlag, but not shield stun. right?
Leffen (or anyone else that can PS well), any advice on PSing with Yoshi? I have really good consistency on my Marth PSs, and I am pretty good at PSing with Falco, but Yoshi's shield is so weird that it's hard to tell what's going on. Does dashing away help him like it does with Marth (I'm sure crouching does)?
Also, I think I read this somewhere, but what does Yoshi's shield avoid? He has hitlag, but not shield stun. right?
EthereaL
Smash Journeyman
I know you're trying to help, but please don't link me to a beginner guide written and last updated nearly 8 years ago.
I can play at a reasonable level (I've taken games off of m2k in-tournament before). I was asking more for any specific mechanics that are fundamental to Yoshi's play.
From what I understand, Yoshi's DJC mechanics allow him to control momentum in midair at any time, he has a good combo game, a fully invincible ledgestall, a 1-frame-vincible ledgestall which throws eggs onstage, he doesn't suffer shield stun, and he has a fairly high weight. Oh, and he has the ability to gain multiple invincible frames at any time while on the ground.
So, I'd appreciate knowing things like how those are done, new tactics that have been discovered, etc.
Nogzor'z
Smash Journeyman
yeah, yoshi's shield suffers marginally less stun than other shields.
I'd imagine dashing away may help PSing things. problem is yoshi's nose projects so far in front of him that the timing for PS seems to be quite difficult. Getting under attacks by crouching, wavedashing, or simply dashing forward to lower yoshi's height/body, is usually the way I go about to get good parries.
I'd imagine dashing away may help PSing things. problem is yoshi's nose projects so far in front of him that the timing for PS seems to be quite difficult. Getting under attacks by crouching, wavedashing, or simply dashing forward to lower yoshi's height/body, is usually the way I go about to get good parries.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Idk why you would brag about M2K sandbagging against you in tournament.
Does it suffer less hitstun, or none at all?
I'm pretty good on parries. I've only played Yoshi at a couple of training sessions so far, and my PSing skills have translated quite nicely. I am at the point where I can run into Marth fair walling and parry -> DJC/WD/whatever. I played my friend's Falco secondary (a pretty jank Falco) and I was mostly able to get down crouching parries under SHFFLs or aerials from top plats, though I had a small period where it felt like I couldn't JC my parries because of shield stun (hence my other question). I'm only worried about PSing for lasers. I parried most of them while attempting PSs, but I'd like to be able to fire them back as consistently as I can with Marth. I just didn't have enough time to test all the different PS methods, so I was hoping to get a head start in figuring out what to try. I don't really like relying on crouching to PS lasers because good Falcos will shoot low lasers, and I'm pretty sure that would just make it way harder. I will keep in mind the note about Yoshi's nose being a problem area though. Thank you.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
So I'm guessing Bones is playing Yoshi because it actually allows him to put his shield dropping skills to good use.