Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[-Chad-]

should have been a 5 second video of "BECAUSE IT'S A GODDAMN TAIL"

I am dissapoint

I thought about that lol

 

[festizzio]

Does anybody have a gif or information on Pikachu's dair hitbox when he hits the ground? Does it stay out even if the move is edge-cancelled?

 

[N64]

I do not know, festizzio.

So I think chad and I have decided Dreamland is pikachu's worst neutral. Discuss.

 

[-Chad-]

Also there's a game called Mutation Nation that has insane n-airs

 

[N64]

shoulda been Mutation Nairtion

 

[AXE 09]

played m2k this past weekend. it was so hard lol.
and i finally met anther for the first time

 

[festizzio]

I saw the list for that tournament, Axe, PikaChad, AND Anther? Oh man I wish I could've gone. I can't wait for the videos!!

And yes I agree, I hate DL64 and almost always get rid of it. Oh my usmash didn't kill you where it would have on literally any other stage? Well I'll just jump and use thun---crap

 

[dkuo]

i like dl vs marth 8)

 

[Kim Steinbach-Reif]

Recently I've been reading a lot about Pikachu, mainly from guides on here however I still sometimes find things hard to implement into the game just by reading. I've tried to search up videos and tutorials on Youtube for guides but non yet to be seen, and I wonder, couldn't you guys (N64 & Axe) produce just such a video similar to Ken's Marth Guide?

 

[Palmerfan]

They did! http://www.twitch.tv/pikachad/c/4081228 right here

 

[N64]

Thanks Palmerfan! Yeah, if you have 3ish hours to spare, I highly suggest you check out that twitch broadcast. Chad and I go over a ton of pika stuff.

 

[Kim Steinbach-Reif]

Thanks Palmerfan! Yeah, if you have 3ish hours to spare, I highly suggest you check out that twitch broadcast. Chad and I go over a ton of pika stuff.

I definantly will! This is exactly what I needed

 

[Kim Steinbach-Reif]

They did! http://www.twitch.tv/pikachad/c/4081228 right here

You're an angel, thank you ^_^

 

[Aquachu]

Greetings Pikafans :D

I'm a fairly new player to competitive smash and decided about a week ago that i would main Pikachu. There is a lot of information here on the forum, so i don't really have many questions right off the bat. I just wonder about one thing: Who are Pikachu's best teammates? I saw that you mentioned on the twitch broadcast that teaming with another Pikachu worked great. However, there aren't really any Pikachu mains around my area, let alone in the whole country. So is there any other characters that strengthen Pika's advantages and the other way around?

I really appreciate any help you can provide guys

 

[festizzio]

I think Fox is a great partner for Pikachu. You can save him easily with uair (just be sure not to spike him by accident, lol!) and he can save you from a lot of situations with his shine. Your forward uair hitbox also easily gets him out of trouble, especially chaingrabs or tech chases. I'm not the most knowledgeable on teams, but hopefully this helped a little bit.

 

[Palmerfan]

Pika knocks people up, so people that can combo off that are a natural match. Falcon works great because of so many knee setups, Fox is good as always, Sheik is pretty good because of the fair setups, and Puff can do some nice bair stuff out of pika's setups. Pretty much any high tier doubles character works, but I'm not much of a peach-pika fan

As a bit of an unconventional pick, I've teamed with a Zelda player to great success. Both characters are tough to edgeguard, people don't really have much matchup knowledge vs either for the most part, pika causing havoc with shffl'd nairs makes it easier for zelda to space properly, and pika upair into zelda sweetspot fair/bair makes for disgustingly early kills. It's pretty great

 

[BigglesWorth]

Hey, I am not a pikachu main but I do a lot of labbing. So I was messing around with a tech chase setup Dthrow > Jab reset/Jab > dash > Jump canceled grab/shield grab. At what percent is it too easy DI out of Dthrow to not be intercepted by jab if done frame perfect (if anyone knows)? It seemed useful, because the timings can be changed for higher percents, especially against spacies, marth, and sheik. I was curious exactly how useful this is, since it does require someone to be really good at tech chase/jab reset setups. I don't claim to know anything about pikachu, but the details of it interest me so I thought I would ask.

 

[dkuo]

@ A Aquachu
pika is pretty flexible in doubles. hes like a mini fox that can also do sheik things by the ledge, plus he has a peach-like dsmash to break up teamfights, PLUS he has a grounded projectile interrupt for when 1-on-1's arent going well for the other guy. double pika, as a result, is a super-flexible team composition but struggles with keepaway/sandwiching due to lack of ranged/disjointed moves

as the people above have said, fox and sheik are good teammates for pika. other than being generally good doubles characters, their high grab rate provides a lot of grab > usmash opportunities.

(btw for future reference, fox is always the best teammate for any character)

@ BigglesWorth
@ N64 would know more about this but heres what i know
for starters, relying on jab for followups is inherently unreliable so id use it sparsely and in only in very niche situations

dthrow jab does true combo on a lot of the cast at low/mid%. if they di away so that you cant jab followup you still gain a small mixup situation where you can cover their [jumpaway/land/tech] into [attack/airdodge/do nothing] while keeping in mind hitstun and aerial movement

dthrow jab reset works once or twice for the unexpecting (more for people with slow reaction time) but expect fastfallers to start reacting and teching after the first dthrow since they tend to have quick reflexes

as for dthrow techchasing in general, i think it works best on pseudo fastfallers (marth, sheik, roy, dk?, etc) but a lot of characters can act before they tech, and for those who have to tech its either impossible to cover their techroll or you have to make a hard read

 

[Aquachu]

Great! There shouldn't be much trouble finding anyone who mains those characters. Thanks :D

 

[festizzio]

So I played at a tournament this past Saturday, was wondering if anybody could offer any advice on my play (my match starts at around 01:43:00)

http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/536449118

I was pretty nervous playing on stream against such a good player, so some of the quick attack SD's are definitely bad mistakes :/

Edit: I was also trying to shield drop a few times, the last kill I was pressing down to shield drop so I got caught with horrible DI >_<

 

[N64]

Dkuo covered my opinion on dthrow followups pretty well. Techchases or jabresets are the only thing you can really get out of it, and neither are reliable. If you're trying to techchase, you generally have to predict their tech option, as pika's options don't have the range to follow on reaction and make it in time. If you're trying to jab reset, then them teching completely negates that (and as i just mentioned, you can't really react to techs and plan to just 'jab reset if i see the missed tech'). They do have high rewards though, leading to a grab/usmash/fsmash.

As for jabbing out of the throw itself, I don't really see the point. Jab by itself has too much lag afterwards to lead into anything directly. You could potentially use the moment of awkwardness to get a decent pressure followup, but it seems so situational to me. I would have to see uses of it where it worked out to be convinced that it's a good idea. On the characters this would work on (mid-floaties like sheik), they could potentially stick out an aerial to contest it (like sheik fair). Or they could take the hit, land, and then pick a defensive option. They can (if i'm not mistaken) get their shield up before your nair (which is what i would suspect to be your go-to followup). Or, for instance, shiek could cc dsmash as soon as she lands.

If pika didn't have the awesomeness of uthrow and bthrow, i think dthrow would be more viable. But i welcome you to do more experimentation and see if you find anything neat.

ok, festizzio
Watched your set vs macd. It's a bit hard to assess your play in that set. There were the SDs, as you mentioned. Overall, probably due to nerves as well, you seemed hasty. Whenever you were close to him it looked like you felt you needed to convert it into something. Any time you were close you opted to throw out a quick aerial or fsmash or something. Even if you got hit a few times and put into an awkward situation, you'd still try to get in that attack. It's alright to dash away and reassess or get to a better position or approach angle.

That's the main thing I really noticed. As i said, it's a bit hard to assess because the matches were so quick and a number of the deaths were SDs, so I can't be like "you died because X". Play more tourney matches or figure out how to calm down during nerve-racking matches i guess.

Edit: Also say hi to Jace for me! Dunno if you guys live close / play much, but he was my teams partner for a good while and is a super cool dude. He has plenty of my pika experience too, so maybe he could give some advice.

 

[Kim Steinbach-Reif]

Hello my fellow Pikachu players, I need help! Recently I've been playing a lot against my brother who 90% of the time plays Falco, and I've struggled much in this matchup, some mostly because of my poor knowledge of my character since I'm fairly new to Pikach also becausehe's been playing Falco for quite a while now. I've read around a bit and heard it's a somewhat difficult matchup, and now I require some tips.

The most problems I've had with this matchup is I always get trapped in his Shine>Dair which he then tech chases me and keeps on punishing me mostly with his Dairs, but I find his Shines the most annoying since I can't do much about it. Is there any good way of escaping this or should I just be more careful of the way I engage him? Often when I try to go approach him with a SHFFL Nair he simply just shields and grab me, and that's what he does so much, he punish med with Shield>Grab from most of my approaches and attacks overall. Also when he gets me high in the air, I have a hard time recovering, I often come down to 2 options, either Quick Attack away or simply DI left or right, but often when I Quick Attack he punish me falling down and if I don't Quick Attack he often hits me with his Up-B, what should I do?

I understand I may just be a poor newbie and need to become a better Pikachu, but a little bit of assistence wouldn't be too bad.

TL;DR What are some good things to know about Pikachu vs Falco matchup?

 

[Palmerfan]

Shine is annoying and very hard to deal with, it's a big part of why Falco is so strong. When he shines to shield pressure, the best you can do is roll and reset the situation. Don't try to shield grab it, you'll eat a big punish most of the time, and even if he doesn't punish you for it, a better falco player will.

The main thing you have over him in the matchup is low percent kills. Make sure you convert on every edgeguard situation, it's the only way you will win the matchup. I like playing the matchup by waiting for him to make a mistake, getting him offstage, and not letting him back on. It's a very difficult matchup but definitely winnable if you play well.

I'm also a pikachu newbie, but this is my understanding of the matchup. Any more experienced pika players should feel free to correct me

 

[Kim Steinbach-Reif]

Shine is annoying and very hard to deal with, it's a big part of why Falco is so strong. When he shines to shield pressure, the best you can do is roll and reset the situation. Don't try to shield grab it, you'll eat a big punish most of the time, and even if he doesn't punish you for it, a better falco player will.

The main thing you have over him in the matchup is low percent kills. Make sure you convert on every edgeguard situation, it's the only way you will win the matchup. I like playing the matchup by waiting for him to make a mistake, getting him offstage, and not letting him back on. It's a very difficult matchup but definitely winnable if you play well.

I'm also a pikachu newbie, but this is my understanding of the matchup. Any more experienced pika players should feel free to correct me

I often try to shield but he is so aggresive and when he starts Shining and Dairing my shield, I often get hit in the end, mostly cause Pikachu's shield is fairly small and won't cover all his body.

The thing is I as a newbie to Pikachu, it's often very hard to really convert the edgeguards since you really need to be so on point on every thing you do or it can mean a stock.

Well I'm I got tons of stuff still yet to learn so I'll just keep trying!

 

[N64]

Yeah, falco is tough especially when you're just starting out. The oversimplified advice is to not get hit. Use your mobility to make falco's approaches more difficult, and try to dash/roll out of bad situations in general. If you're getting punished off of your approaches, then it wasn't a good approach. Try to nair so that you land behind his shield (preferably far enough that shine out of shield won't punish it either). If you're poking at him with dtilt/ftilt/last-hit-uair then make sure you do so from far enough that he can't shine you. Be very aware of where you'll end up after your attack, this is important for every matchup.

But yeah, it mostly just sounds like you need to work on making safer approaches and also dealing with falco's pressure. Shield is not a great option (but sometimes it's the only option). Try to dash/roll out of bad situations if at all possible. Just get away from him, use rising uair if he chases you and it can catch him (putting you in a situation where it's easier to followup).

Also, try mixing up your tech options, it sounds like he's getting you for that as well. If he's predicting every tech of yours, figure out how you're being predictable. Do you always go to the same option? ex. do you always tech towards or away from the ledge? do you always tech in place? etc. Mix it up. Intentionally miss a tech occasionally, then do a delayed getup/roll.

And as Palmerfan said, work on your conversions/edgeguards. You won't get many openings in this matchup, realistically. Pikachu can punish falco really hard, though. If you're not sure how to follow up, just look for videos of Axe or Pikachad playing Falcos and see what they do. Don't be afraid to jump out and try to hit him. It may not work a number of times, but you're learning and it's important that you represent that as an option. Once Flaco has to think about that, it will change how he recovers, and you can mix in on-stage punishes to catch him when he tries to preempt you jumping out at him.

 

[festizzio]

N64: Thanks for the advice! I'll definitely try to be more patient, it's something I've always struggled with. I think I need to go to my next tournament and try to be patient in every situation and actually think about my options more. After watching the video again, I do see a lot of random fsmashes, especially when there were much safer options I could have gone for. I don't know Jace very well, we played in pools the first tournament he was in here and he said I had a fast Pikachu :D I'll tell him you said hi and see if he is willing to give any advice.

 

[dkuo]

my pika-on-fd-vs-fastfaller strat worked out a few times today
i still drop chaingrabs though, pretty embarrassing...maybe its time to start 20xx training pack cg practice

 

[mynameisdog4]

Question. I notice Axe and Chad drop from ledge and throw out an up air, then regrab ledge a lot. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDhbNFzdEik#t=219) When you do that, are you timing and aiming to hit them with a specific hit of the up air (maybe the weird flip behind one?), or is the goal just to get any hitbox out there to make them to back away and respect your space?

 

[N64]

Both. You're likely to hit with the last hitbox (and flip them offstage behind you), but even if you somehow hit with another hitbox it at least trips them up and lets you get on stage. And it's hard to punish on whiff by most characters, so after seeing it some people may just let you get back on instead of risking getting hit.

 

[GaIe]

Hello my fellow Pikachu players, I need help! Recently I've been playing a lot against my brother who 90% of the time plays Falco, and I've struggled much in this matchup, some mostly because of my poor knowledge of my character since I'm fairly new to Pikach also becausehe's been playing Falco for quite a while now. I've read around a bit and heard it's a somewhat difficult matchup, and now I require some tips.

The most problems I've had with this matchup is I always get trapped in his Shine>Dair which he then tech chases me and keeps on punishing me mostly with his Dairs, but I find his Shines the most annoying since I can't do much about it. Is there any good way of escaping this or should I just be more careful of the way I engage him? Often when I try to go approach him with a SHFFL Nair he simply just shields and grab me, and that's what he does so much, he punish med with Shield>Grab from most of my approaches and attacks overall. Also when he gets me high in the air, I have a hard time recovering, I often come down to 2 options, either Quick Attack away or simply DI left or right, but often when I Quick Attack he punish me falling down and if I don't Quick Attack he often hits me with his Up-B, what should I do?

I understand I may just be a poor newbie and need to become a better Pikachu, but a little bit of assistence wouldn't be too bad.

TL;DR What are some good things to know about Pikachu vs Falco matchup?

One of my favorite things to do vs Falco is the chain grab up-throw combo. If you're at the center of the map of like BF or YS and gets a grab on Falco at kill percent, it's a safe kill with an usmash if you read his DI.

Also, if you do it on Final Destination and grabs him at 0%, you can keep chaingrabbing until he reaches death-percent. It's really hard to do unless you are experienced with grabs though. But it's a really nice Falco-counter.
FD in general is generally a good stage vs Falco.

Someone who is actually into alot of competitive smashing might confirm what I just wrote so that I am not posting any false information

 

[dkuo]

@Gale
yeah if the opponent is a fastfaller and at high % you can uthrow > usmash for the ko given that they dont di onto a platform or offstage/offplat

also you dont have to read their DI, you just have to watch and react to where they di
(read = predict something unknown, react = see and act on known information)

lastly the cg on fd wont work at very low% if the opponent di's to the side. 25-35% is a comfortable place for me to start chaingrabs but idk the numbers. and remember to dash jc grab (unless doing a turnaround grab in which case DONT jc)

@ Kim Steinbach-Reif
im about to write an essay
i recommend reading and understanding everything but dont try to incorporate it all at once, take it one step at a time

anyways:

Spoiler

if your brother doesnt do anything other than shinedair as pressure, you can usually find a shieldgrab/uair oos/wd oos opening:
- shine > early dair: act after dair
- shine > late dair: act after shine

most falcos like to do shine > early dair, especially if theyre not used to having their shinedair pressure punished

out of shield options:
- shieldgrab: not recommended but powerful. use if falco isnt spacing his pressure properly and sitting on top of you
- uair oos: if your back is pressured
- wdoos: to buy space to act with

i know @ Palmerfan discouraged shieldgrabs, and he's right to an extent. thats a generally good thing to do at first if you want to unlearn bad habits. but! as a pikachu main you should definitely learn when shieldgrab opportunities open since your grab is such a powerful tool vs most of the cast in terms of punishment - the key is figuring out the openings and not trying to shieldgrab everything that touches your shield

to avoid getting shieldpoked remember to angle the shield properly. this also helps with throwing falcos timing off since it causes them to experience hitlag earlier than they expect

if all else fails its fine to roll away from pressure, especially since most spacies dont know how to punish rolls and rely on pressure cooking their opponent lol. you can buffer roll out of shieldstun with cstick btw (input cstick to the side DURING shieldstun). but of course if he catches on to your rolls youll have to start weighing your options

on getting dair techchased: as @ N64 said, mix up your techrolls. remember that tech in place has extra invuln (but this isn't useful if falco does meaty dair on tech in place) (btw meaty = hitbox active on frame 1 of your vulnerability, usually used in context of long-lasting hitboxes)

avoiding shieldgrabbed nairs: remember you can crossup his shield with your nair so that you land behind him outside of grab range
some falcos will bair you oos after your crossup nair though, but if you delay nair to hit the back of his shield then you can keep them in shieldstun a little longer. rising uair after a crossup nair will also hit most of falco's actions out of shield

if youre very high up and coming down, go offstage and then upb to ledge. this might sound stupid because its like getting setup for an edgeguard, but remember falco is very very very hesitant about going offstage for edgeguards, and on top of that they have trouble edgeguarding sweetspot quick attack. from there you can learn ledge options (i recommend ledgedash) to recover and buy back your stage control. also axe likes to come down with dair sometimes to catch people offguard

 

[GaIe]

@Gale
yeah if the opponent is a fastfaller and at high % you can uthrow > usmash for the ko given that they dont di onto a platform or offstage/offplat

also you dont have to read their DI, you just have to watch and react to where they di
(read = predict something unknown, react = see and act on known information)

lastly the cg on fd wont work at very low% if the opponent di's to the side. 25-35% is a comfortable place for me to start chaingrabs but idk the numbers. and remember to dash jc grab (unless doing a turnaround grab in which case DONT jc)

@ Kim Steinbach-Reif
im about to write an essay
i recommend reading and understanding everything but dont try to incorporate it all at once, take it one step at a time

anyways:

Spoiler

if your brother doesnt do anything other than shinedair as pressure, you can usually find a shieldgrab/uair oos/wd oos opening:
- shine > early dair: act after dair
- shine > late dair: act after shine

most falcos like to do shine > early dair, especially if theyre not used to having their shinedair pressure punished

out of shield options:
- shieldgrab: not recommended but powerful. use if falco isnt spacing his pressure properly and sitting on top of you
- uair oos: if your back is pressured
- wdoos: to buy space to act with

i know @ Palmerfan discouraged shieldgrabs, and he's right to an extent. thats a generally good thing to do at first if you want to unlearn bad habits. but! as a pikachu main you should definitely learn when shieldgrab opportunities open since your grab is such a powerful tool vs most of the cast in terms of punishment - the key is figuring out the openings and not trying to shieldgrab everything that touches your shield

to avoid getting shieldpoked remember to angle the shield properly. this also helps with throwing falcos timing off since it causes them to experience hitlag earlier than they expect

if all else fails its fine to roll away from pressure, especially since most spacies dont know how to punish rolls and rely on pressure cooking their opponent lol. you can buffer roll out of shieldstun with cstick btw (input cstick to the side DURING shieldstun). but of course if he catches on to your rolls youll have to start weighing your options

on getting dair techchased: as @ N64 said, mix up your techrolls. remember that tech in place has extra invuln (but this isn't useful if falco does meaty dair on tech in place) (btw meaty = hitbox active on frame 1 of your vulnerability, usually used in context of long-lasting hitboxes)

avoiding shieldgrabbed nairs: remember you can crossup his shield with your nair so that you land behind him outside of grab range
some falcos will bair you oos after your crossup nair though, but if you delay nair to hit the back of his shield then you can keep them in shieldstun a little longer. rising uair after a crossup nair will also hit most of falco's actions out of shield

if youre very high up and coming down, go offstage and then upb to ledge. this might sound stupid because its like getting setup for an edgeguard, but remember falco is very very very hesitant about going offstage for edgeguards, and on top of that they have trouble edgeguarding sweetspot quick attack. from there you can learn ledge options (i recommend ledgedash) to recover and buy back your stage control. also axe likes to come down with dair sometimes to catch people offguard

Thanks for clearing stuff up!
While on the subject of cg's: I have had some trouble with cg'ing Fox when using a similar timing as I do with Falco, and I end up failing alot more.

Is Fox's falling speed slightly slower or is his DI better? Or maybe I am just too eager and his percentage too low?

 

[dkuo]

im not sure about the %'s but yes their fallspeeds have very slight variations in stuff like acceleration and maxspeed which may throw off your regular timing. make sure to focus on reacting and timing your own grab to land where they're going. youll get used to it after some practice

and jc your grabs

 

[ChivalRuse]

I think Pikachu puts in work against Marth. Any stage but Yoshi's.

 

[dkuo]

on paper i think pika wins too but when i play vs marth it feels even, maybe slight marth
maybe because im bad ~_~ iono

its kinda like fox-marth except
- slightly harder time approaching / punishing
- much easier time gimping / edgeguarding / living

i think, theoretically, marths neutral game vs pika needs to be really airtight to make up for the offstage imbalance (that is, marth dies real easy while pika lives forever)

but on the flipside marths tools are generally very reliable (super disjoint keepaway tools, dd grab, dtilt, etc) while pika's defense is really not great outside of wdoos counterattack (which is only reliable with a healthy shield)...and approach options arent very reliable either

joe are you playing again? i see you posting around a bunch all of a sudden

 

[ChivalRuse]

The reason why I like it for Pikachu is because it's so hard to kill Pikachu outside of a random tipper. Utilt doesn't kill till 130ish.

Pikachu can do cool stuff like run around and nair. Also, if you shield a fair with your back turned, you can punish anything but really late aerials with uair out of shield.

Yes, I'm playing again. In limited amounts though. I probably won't be travelling much for smash anymore.

 

[dkuo]

yeah killing is a big one. marth seems to have that problem vs floaties in general
his amazing neutral game kind of makes up for it but that requires a lot of precision and patience
i find that most players get impatient and start swinging a bunch vs high% lmao

pikas nair is okay in the matchup. pretty good at catching marths mid-movement and whatnot
imo a heavy nairgame can frustrate marth into playing less ground-based, giving you other openings
this tends to work out since pikas nair is frustrating to deal with on the ground but easy to swipe out with fair

its kinda hard for marth to retreat > whiff punish your nair unless hes at a very specific spacing
nair landing lag is super fast and marth also kind of needs a read on when you fastfall too (or whether you fastfall at all)
marth can dd grab your nair out of the air though so theres that

nair also works kinda well vs dtilt thanks to its huge space coverage and airborne-ness
if it were not for the fact that marths automatically cc your nair when dtilting, nair would be the business vs dtilt

you cant really uair punish anything thats spaced well/tipped
dtilt iasa is too fast, tippered fsmash has too much shieldstun, etc...and spaced attacks on shield keeps marth out of uair range

with that said, running shield/pivot shield is really good for messing with marth's spacing in that regard
its good at "untippering" his attacks on shield (lower shieldstun, closer range for easier pika punish, etc)

 

[ChivalRuse]

That's the thing: spacing is not going to be easy for Marth when you're both dash dancing around the stage like madmen. You create openings in this game by weaving in and out of attacks, movement creates non-uniformity for the opponent, and the unfamiliarity is what you capitalize on. I like uair out of shield because it has the highest potential reward.

 

[Cassio]

MLG roll call. Whos gonna be there? @ dkuo @ -Chad- Anyone else? We should try to meet up.

 

[ChivalRuse]

AXE should be there! AZ_Axe!