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Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!
- Thread starter N64
- Start date
Shadocat
Smash Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ5y1EO8ozc vs Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1szVKYW3Jzo vs Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwcAhutzcPE vs Marth
I need some MU advice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1szVKYW3Jzo vs Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwcAhutzcPE vs Marth
I need some MU advice.
dkuo
Smash Lord
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
I can't keep up with you dkuo. why are you in norcal
also do it
also do it
dkuo
Smash Lord
lol we'll see. im not even sure if i can go yet
also thinking about fox...character dilemmas man ~_~
@ S Shadocat
vs falco:
this game was pretty funny lol, falco combos you everywhere and wins neutral a bunch, but then you land gimp setups 4 times and he always runs into your ftilt
- go for sweetspot when recovering unless the opponent demonstrates he can cover that option
- learn wd oos and know what you can do it out of and when you can punish out of it
- be extremely cautious of fighting opponents with low% since they can cc your nair and punish pretty easily
- focus more on putting yourself in a safe position and reacting out of that. also focus more on movement and spacing, either keeping yourself at a safe distance or good position
- sdi falco combos horizontally away, and when the falco loses his combo your first priority should be to reset yourself to a safe position, or counterattack if you see an opening
- when you see falco spamming dairs like he did on last stock you can just shieldgrab it since they're all super early lol
- you can use the low plats on this stage to your advantage since falco's laser game is diminished at certain areas which limit his positioning and laser options
ill watch the other games later maybe
also thinking about fox...character dilemmas man ~_~
@ S Shadocat
vs falco:
this game was pretty funny lol, falco combos you everywhere and wins neutral a bunch, but then you land gimp setups 4 times and he always runs into your ftilt
- go for sweetspot when recovering unless the opponent demonstrates he can cover that option
- learn wd oos and know what you can do it out of and when you can punish out of it
- be extremely cautious of fighting opponents with low% since they can cc your nair and punish pretty easily
- focus more on putting yourself in a safe position and reacting out of that. also focus more on movement and spacing, either keeping yourself at a safe distance or good position
- sdi falco combos horizontally away, and when the falco loses his combo your first priority should be to reset yourself to a safe position, or counterattack if you see an opening
- when you see falco spamming dairs like he did on last stock you can just shieldgrab it since they're all super early lol
- you can use the low plats on this stage to your advantage since falco's laser game is diminished at certain areas which limit his positioning and laser options
ill watch the other games later maybe
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N64
Smash Champion
Shadocat,
You're going off the edge more often and successfully edgeugarding, which I like to see. It feels like you've gotten a lot more comfortable extending off stage with pikachu. The only really glaring thing I'm seeing now when watching these matches is how stationary you are at times. When you land from an aerial or tech or just repositioning, you'll often stand there for a second and either shield or throw out an attack anticipating your opponent's approach. This isn't often pikachu's best option. Watch any match of Axe or any other great pikachu, and you'll see they're pretty much always moving. Staying mobile just makes it that much more difficult for the opponent to figure out where you are, what you're doing, and how he's going to stop it. Try to just be a little more crisp, and start moving as soon as you hit the ground unless you're positive you're going to get hit by something and shielding is the only way to avoid it.
As far as matchup specifics, I don't have a whole lot of advice. I think being more fluid and mobile will help you the most in all the matchups. Falco is a very pressure-heavy character, so if he gets in on you and gets you in your shield, it could literally lead to a stock lost. You have to be able to run from him, get around lasers, and get yourself in positions where you can counter with a quick aerial if you see an opening, and start your own offense. Once you did get in you seemed to do fine. There were a few questionable combo decisions (it looked like you threw out uair a loooot, which isn't necessarily bad, just was awkward a couple of times when nair would have hit him off stage or put you in a better position). When you were on the defensive, though, is where your game seemed to fall apart. Again, being more mobile will help this, but just generally be aware that Falco is an offensive powerhouse. It's pretty risky to try to beat his approach with something, you'll generally want to try to bait&dodge it instead, and then counterattack. And do everything you can to not get locked down in your shield in this matchup.
Vs Fox is much of the same, except he's not quite as good at putting on pressure. Main thing is to keep up with him. You're going to have to chase him a lot, just make sure you're not reaching too hard and letting him dictate the pace. Be cautious when it looks like he's baiting for you to approach, and put on the pressure when it looks like he's set on either approaching or getting away.
Vs Marth, main things is to stop trying to shield grab him. It won't work. If you shield anything of his, it's pretty unlikely that you'll be able to get anything out of it unless you immediately short hop nair towards him. Short hop nair does wonders in this matchup, and it's the main way you'll likely get in on him. FoD is a kind of rough stage for this matchup because of its small size, but just try to make due and weave in and out with nairs. From a neutral position, Marth has a good advantage on you, but once you get a hit in it can be difficult for him to stabilize.
You're going off the edge more often and successfully edgeugarding, which I like to see. It feels like you've gotten a lot more comfortable extending off stage with pikachu. The only really glaring thing I'm seeing now when watching these matches is how stationary you are at times. When you land from an aerial or tech or just repositioning, you'll often stand there for a second and either shield or throw out an attack anticipating your opponent's approach. This isn't often pikachu's best option. Watch any match of Axe or any other great pikachu, and you'll see they're pretty much always moving. Staying mobile just makes it that much more difficult for the opponent to figure out where you are, what you're doing, and how he's going to stop it. Try to just be a little more crisp, and start moving as soon as you hit the ground unless you're positive you're going to get hit by something and shielding is the only way to avoid it.
As far as matchup specifics, I don't have a whole lot of advice. I think being more fluid and mobile will help you the most in all the matchups. Falco is a very pressure-heavy character, so if he gets in on you and gets you in your shield, it could literally lead to a stock lost. You have to be able to run from him, get around lasers, and get yourself in positions where you can counter with a quick aerial if you see an opening, and start your own offense. Once you did get in you seemed to do fine. There were a few questionable combo decisions (it looked like you threw out uair a loooot, which isn't necessarily bad, just was awkward a couple of times when nair would have hit him off stage or put you in a better position). When you were on the defensive, though, is where your game seemed to fall apart. Again, being more mobile will help this, but just generally be aware that Falco is an offensive powerhouse. It's pretty risky to try to beat his approach with something, you'll generally want to try to bait&dodge it instead, and then counterattack. And do everything you can to not get locked down in your shield in this matchup.
Vs Fox is much of the same, except he's not quite as good at putting on pressure. Main thing is to keep up with him. You're going to have to chase him a lot, just make sure you're not reaching too hard and letting him dictate the pace. Be cautious when it looks like he's baiting for you to approach, and put on the pressure when it looks like he's set on either approaching or getting away.
Vs Marth, main things is to stop trying to shield grab him. It won't work. If you shield anything of his, it's pretty unlikely that you'll be able to get anything out of it unless you immediately short hop nair towards him. Short hop nair does wonders in this matchup, and it's the main way you'll likely get in on him. FoD is a kind of rough stage for this matchup because of its small size, but just try to make due and weave in and out with nairs. From a neutral position, Marth has a good advantage on you, but once you get a hit in it can be difficult for him to stabilize.
dkuo
Smash Lord
lol thanks
i underperformed at the tourney imo but no johns. norcal is pretty good
i underperformed at the tourney imo but no johns. norcal is pretty good
Cassio
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2011
- Messages
- 3,185
Can someone give their input on pika using wavedashing? Preferably with a good video example or two. I know the more generic answer, but for pika specifically its harder for me to keep an eye for it in videos. A couple specific examples and matchups plus more general applications would be cool.
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dkuo
Smash Lord
thats kind of an odd question. theres only a few specific uses for wavedashes, but overall its seen as more of a movement option than a purpose-specific tool. this is true across the board for every character (minus some of the big wavedash characters i guess)
the wavedash is a 14-frame scooting movement (4 frames jumpsquat, 10 frames sliding [longer for characters with longer jumpsquats]). it allows you to reset from any jump-cancellable position into a neutral standing position while giving you the option for movement throughout its duration. this is big, because many jump-cancellable positions dont generally allow you to reset to neutral stance while offering movement simultaneously. jump-cancellable positions for pikachu include standing, walking, initial dash, run, and shield. (also 2nd half of taunt lol) im gonna go over how wavedash applies to each.
(wd = wavedash, dd = dashdance, oos = out of shield)
one big way pikas use wd is counterattacking oos (more so than many other chars imo). that is, approach with shield > shield opponent attack > wd > punish. its a pretty strong mixup if you conditioned the opponent to zone out your approaches. particularly strong vs marth. watch axe vs any marth for this lol
mixing in wd's into your dd is pretty common, but you need to know when and why to use it during your dd (doing all your movements with purpose). i suggest developing your dd game first before mixing in wd's. a lot of what pika does with wd in dd is kind of like...confusing the opponent. the most common one that everyone brings up is the run up > wd back bait, but you can do a bunch of movement oddities with wd. the idea is to shift your position and movement around enough to confuse the opponent, making it harder for them to read your approaches and such. theres more to it than this, but you just have to experiment with dd'ing to see what i mean
wd onto ledge is good but pikas often use the upb to get to the ledge faster
one particular way i like using wd is during edgeguarding spacies. i run towards the ledge and wd towards the ledge but not to the point where i touch it. this way i can do my ftilt faster than if i were to wait for my run to end, plus i already buffered my forward input during my wd (just hold forward during wavedash) also works with crouch i guess, but i prefer wd ftilt
theres a bunch of other stuff. but the most important part is in the first half. keep playing around with wd and you'll find uses for it on your own
as for videos...find any axe video and identify the wavedashes i guess <_< im lazy when it comes to finding examples lol
really really late edit:
i also want to add that wavedashing is the only way to move backwards, giving interesting ways to control which way you face
well, moonwalking exists but moonwalking sucks lol
the wavedash is a 14-frame scooting movement (4 frames jumpsquat, 10 frames sliding [longer for characters with longer jumpsquats]). it allows you to reset from any jump-cancellable position into a neutral standing position while giving you the option for movement throughout its duration. this is big, because many jump-cancellable positions dont generally allow you to reset to neutral stance while offering movement simultaneously. jump-cancellable positions for pikachu include standing, walking, initial dash, run, and shield. (also 2nd half of taunt lol) im gonna go over how wavedash applies to each.
- standing: this IS neutral stance. this is the position you enter out of wavedash. however, this doesn't mean wavedashing from standing is useless - the only other movement out of standing that is equivalent in movement speed to your wavedash is your initial dash, but initial dash takes longer to end unless you dashdance back (in which case you'll have to wait for the new iteration of initial dash to end...you get where im going with this).
- walking: this is similar to neutral stance in that most of the actions you can do in standing are also offered during your walk. again, wavedash during walking operates similarly to how it works in your neutral stance, except walking offers you the option for movement while keeping your neutral stance options the entire time.
- initial dash: when you enter run, your first few frames are your initial dash animation. during this animation, you are given the option to dash backwards immediately (when several are done in succession it is known as the dashdance) but lose the ability to crouch or stop the animation (it must play to the end). in this case, wavedashing is a great way to exit out of your initial dash or dashdance early - you still commit some frames to lag but you enter neutral stance more reliably and maintained controlled movement (rather than initial dash's awkward deceleration).
- run: this is your normal run animation, which is if you hold the control stick after your initial dash. you lose the option to dash backwards immediately (you perform an awkward slide instead) but regain the option to crouch and have a faster stopping animation (which is negligible since you can crouch stop your run). wavedashing out of run is useful if you want to reverse your momentum faster, or you want to enter standing/walking in the same direction earlier without having to crouch midway.
- shield: this one is big. generally, shield offers you 5 options: 2 roll directions, jump, spotdodge, and drop shield. however, the jump option gives you a lot to work with considering how many jump-cancellable actions there are in the game. of these options, wavedash is the only one that offers you a quick movement option that ends in neutral stance.
(wd = wavedash, dd = dashdance, oos = out of shield)
one big way pikas use wd is counterattacking oos (more so than many other chars imo). that is, approach with shield > shield opponent attack > wd > punish. its a pretty strong mixup if you conditioned the opponent to zone out your approaches. particularly strong vs marth. watch axe vs any marth for this lol
mixing in wd's into your dd is pretty common, but you need to know when and why to use it during your dd (doing all your movements with purpose). i suggest developing your dd game first before mixing in wd's. a lot of what pika does with wd in dd is kind of like...confusing the opponent. the most common one that everyone brings up is the run up > wd back bait, but you can do a bunch of movement oddities with wd. the idea is to shift your position and movement around enough to confuse the opponent, making it harder for them to read your approaches and such. theres more to it than this, but you just have to experiment with dd'ing to see what i mean
wd onto ledge is good but pikas often use the upb to get to the ledge faster
one particular way i like using wd is during edgeguarding spacies. i run towards the ledge and wd towards the ledge but not to the point where i touch it. this way i can do my ftilt faster than if i were to wait for my run to end, plus i already buffered my forward input during my wd (just hold forward during wavedash) also works with crouch i guess, but i prefer wd ftilt
theres a bunch of other stuff. but the most important part is in the first half. keep playing around with wd and you'll find uses for it on your own
as for videos...find any axe video and identify the wavedashes i guess <_< im lazy when it comes to finding examples lol
really really late edit:
i also want to add that wavedashing is the only way to move backwards, giving interesting ways to control which way you face
well, moonwalking exists but moonwalking sucks lol
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Cassio
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2011
- Messages
- 3,185
@
dkuo
Cool. Yeah you basically answered the question and more! I knew kinda what wave dash was capable of (though your descriptions are an outstanding reference) but I know for pika some things were used more often than others to cover weaknesses (how he uses it oos) or add to his strengths (how it adds to his movement). Ill forsure keep experimenting, but thisll be a great reference and starting point. If you happen to think of any other things lemme know.
Just for clarity real quick, when you say counterattacking and then WD, you mean WD into them to some attack right? And [WD oos into opponent] is better then [shield drop > move towards opponent] bc of the shield drop frames right?
Also if you (or anyone) happens to find one or two good video examples itd be nice, I've seen axe videos but for some reason I have a harder time seeing it unless its pointed out. The main reason I asked this question is bc I was trying to work them into my dash dances but found it awkward and wanted something to reference.
dkuo
Cool. Yeah you basically answered the question and more! I knew kinda what wave dash was capable of (though your descriptions are an outstanding reference) but I know for pika some things were used more often than others to cover weaknesses (how he uses it oos) or add to his strengths (how it adds to his movement). Ill forsure keep experimenting, but thisll be a great reference and starting point. If you happen to think of any other things lemme know.Just for clarity real quick, when you say counterattacking and then WD, you mean WD into them to some attack right? And [WD oos into opponent] is better then [shield drop > move towards opponent] bc of the shield drop frames right?
Also if you (or anyone) happens to find one or two good video examples itd be nice, I've seen axe videos but for some reason I have a harder time seeing it unless its pointed out. The main reason I asked this question is bc I was trying to work them into my dash dances but found it awkward and wanted something to reference.
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N64
Smash Champion
Great explanation dkuo.
If you really want to see the multiple uses of WD for pikachu, I suggest you watch videos of Pikachad. He uses it a lot, often playing a bait-and-punishy game.
I just took the first result off youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fubjv1xslX8) and it's a pretty good example, especially the first match. To point out all the useful wavedashes would be overkill (and take pages), but i'll just select a few.
at 00:33 - Series of dashes/wavedashes trying to bait Scar into approaching
at 00:53 - Applying shield pressure, threatening shield grab, gets a successful nair punish
at 01:11 - Baiting Scar to drop/jump-out-of shield so he can nair. Even though Scar doesn't take the bait, Chad gets in position (from his wavedash) to nair Scar's shield and still land near Scar, threatening rising uair (which probably would have hit had he tried it).
and so on. As I mentioned, Pikachad uses it defensively (and/or to bait) most often, which is honestly probably the majority of its use for Pikachu.
If you really want to see the multiple uses of WD for pikachu, I suggest you watch videos of Pikachad. He uses it a lot, often playing a bait-and-punishy game.
I just took the first result off youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fubjv1xslX8) and it's a pretty good example, especially the first match. To point out all the useful wavedashes would be overkill (and take pages), but i'll just select a few.
at 00:33 - Series of dashes/wavedashes trying to bait Scar into approaching
at 00:53 - Applying shield pressure, threatening shield grab, gets a successful nair punish
at 01:11 - Baiting Scar to drop/jump-out-of shield so he can nair. Even though Scar doesn't take the bait, Chad gets in position (from his wavedash) to nair Scar's shield and still land near Scar, threatening rising uair (which probably would have hit had he tried it).
and so on. As I mentioned, Pikachad uses it defensively (and/or to bait) most often, which is honestly probably the majority of its use for Pikachu.
dkuo
Smash Lord
yeah wd oos towards them and punish
shielddrop counterattacking is faster than wd oos counterattacking, but is limited to where you shield on your platform (which is still great) shielddrop counterattacks are amazing lol
if you have the option to shielddrop uair or something similar, do that. if you don't, wdoos towards opponent > counterattack works pretty well depending on what your opponent hit your shield with. if you dont have enough time to do that, wdoos away from opponent allows reset and establishes distance if the opponent is getting too in your face
shielddrop counterattacking is faster than wd oos counterattacking, but is limited to where you shield on your platform (which is still great) shielddrop counterattacks are amazing lol
if you have the option to shielddrop uair or something similar, do that. if you don't, wdoos towards opponent > counterattack works pretty well depending on what your opponent hit your shield with. if you dont have enough time to do that, wdoos away from opponent allows reset and establishes distance if the opponent is getting too in your face
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Cassio
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2011
- Messages
- 3,185
Sorry I meant drop shield, but I think I get the picture anyways. Those three posts were pretty outstanding and even more useful then what I was looking for. Learning to wavedash is one thing, but learning how to incorporate it is kinda hard if you dont already know imo.
btw dkuo I almost went to that arcadian tournament, but school was too much for me. I live in SLO now so Im about 2-3 hours away from norcal.
btw dkuo I almost went to that arcadian tournament, but school was too much for me. I live in SLO now so Im about 2-3 hours away from norcal.
dkuo
Smash Lord
oh thats cool. maybe ill see you at events at some point
yeah dropping your shield takes kind of long and i would advise against that
shielddropping is the thing where you're shielding on a platform and drop through it
yeah dropping your shield takes kind of long and i would advise against that
shielddropping is the thing where you're shielding on a platform and drop through it
N64
Smash Champion
Going to play melee tomorrow for the first time in over 2 years. Wish me luck.
dkuo
Smash Lord
omg yes
also i forgot i had this saved
rare dkuo washed-up pika footage, crew battle from about a month ago lmao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sftx1pEamHM
also i forgot i had this saved
rare dkuo washed-up pika footage, crew battle from about a month ago lmao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sftx1pEamHM
N64
Smash Champion
i'm so bad at this gaaaaaaaaame 
gotta shake off that rust now
and be the very best
(like no one ever was)
gotta shake off that rust now
and be the very best
(like no one ever was)
IndianapolisCentralGaming
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 135
everybody shut the F*** up this is a robbery
alright now that I have attetion
do You think it's legit to wall fox out with dding due to forcing him to not shffl nair/running shine by spacing/timing nair so the disjointed part wins and Your nair range coverage outranges his? yeah he gets to wall You out facing backwards but You get the pace control
alright now that I have attetion
do You think it's legit to wall fox out with dding due to forcing him to not shffl nair/running shine by spacing/timing nair so the disjointed part wins and Your nair range coverage outranges his? yeah he gets to wall You out facing backwards but You get the pace control
dkuo
Smash Lord
lol yeah idk why i didnt do that at all. things just come back in bits and pieces when i try to play pika again ~_~
i played some pika today at a tourney and dtilted like crazy. its a hella good zoning move
i almost took a game off ppu's fox in pools today lol. cp'd him to fd and missed 100% of my cg's. this character needs so much upkeep so idk if im gonna keep sticking with this cp strat
shoutouts to ramenchu, btw. keep up the pika
@
IndianapolisCentralGaming
walling with pika is HARD. especially if youre trying to use your disjointed nair hitbox since it's inconsistent to time due to spinning around your center. you can kind of make a wall with your tilts and the 4th hit of uair but thats about it. dd'ing vs fox is important though but its just really hard to wall off with attacks
i played some pika today at a tourney and dtilted like crazy. its a hella good zoning move
i almost took a game off ppu's fox in pools today lol. cp'd him to fd and missed 100% of my cg's. this character needs so much upkeep so idk if im gonna keep sticking with this cp strat
shoutouts to ramenchu, btw. keep up the pika
@
IndianapolisCentralGaming
walling with pika is HARD. especially if youre trying to use your disjointed nair hitbox since it's inconsistent to time due to spinning around your center. you can kind of make a wall with your tilts and the 4th hit of uair but thats about it. dd'ing vs fox is important though but its just really hard to wall off with attacks
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Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
pikachu is hard D:
Zhea
Smash Ace
I will never understand why you people don't main Raichu. The speed is just not worth it. Like seriously, what do you even do?
N64
Smash Champion
Pikachad has been streaming melee netplay most nights for the past couple weeks on twitch. He is a cool dude who sometimes busts out the pika. Stream has been entertaining, we usually have about 8-15 people watching, and i'm usually hanging out in chat (and occasionally on skype!). It's fun times. Just thought i'd throw it out there (and potentially revive some discussion a little in the process).
dkuo
Smash Lord
yea i followed his stream a while back. fun times, though i dont really watch melee streams that much nowadays
uair/utilt/usmash + nair, those seem to be pika's bread and butter moves. Learning how to gimp, up + b and hit the spike are very important factors of pika's game.
Am I missing something else?
Btw why Axe is so amazing? and I actually learned some pika stuff from watching N64's old combo video, so thanks.
Am I missing something else?
Btw why Axe is so amazing? and I actually learned some pika stuff from watching N64's old combo video, so thanks.
dkuo
Smash Lord
utilt isnt as bnb as the other stuff you listed but still very useful
get your combos down esp vs ff'ers. focus on max guaranteed damage + ending in a stronger position than the opponent
get your chaingrab > usmash down pat vs ff'ers on fd (falco/fox/cf)
nair crossup mixup game is important to learn
practice both traditional edgeguards as well as the more gimmicky quick gimps, and distinguish when to use what
invincible ledgedashing & options after ledgedash, i would file it as something to learn from the start (to anyone who disagrees to this one...youre wrong
)
axe is amazing because he is a magician
get your combos down esp vs ff'ers. focus on max guaranteed damage + ending in a stronger position than the opponent
get your chaingrab > usmash down pat vs ff'ers on fd (falco/fox/cf)
nair crossup mixup game is important to learn
practice both traditional edgeguards as well as the more gimmicky quick gimps, and distinguish when to use what
invincible ledgedashing & options after ledgedash, i would file it as something to learn from the start (to anyone who disagrees to this one...youre wrong
)axe is amazing because he is a magician
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N64
Smash Champion
There's a fair number of videos of Pikachad out there. His style is pretty different to Axe, so you can learn new stuff. And he's really good, so there's that. If you want to look at some older stuff you can check out Anther, Festizzio, me, Pikapika, uh and there's probably some others but that's a good place to start.
S P O N G E
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2013
- Messages
- 64
My question: Do you feel pikachu should be placed higher on the tier list? If so where?
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dkuo
Smash Lord
i think he belongs in 10th, if not at least around 10th. theres too many hard counters for him to really break into high tier, but barring that i dont think there are that many contenders for best mid tier
pika/luigi/doc hover around that 'below ics' area in terms of potential, imo. maybe yoshi/samus too iono <_< i dont give samus enough credit lol
pika/luigi/doc hover around that 'below ics' area in terms of potential, imo. maybe yoshi/samus too iono <_< i dont give samus enough credit lol
mynameisdog4
Smash Apprentice
So what are the safest options to get back on stage from ledge? I keep eating tippers with everything I try.
N64
Smash Champion
wavelanding onto the stage is generally your safest bet. If you can waveland onstage while you still have invincibility from the ledge, then dash and sh nair, it's pretty hard for anyone to punish.
Also i think pikachu is fine where he is. Dkuo summed it up nicely.
Also i think pikachu is fine where he is. Dkuo summed it up nicely.
dkuo
Smash Lord
+1 vote on ledgedash
you can do a lot of stuff with ledgedash's invuln frames. ledgedash shffl nair is my fav but you can also just run past people. vs close opponents you can get something nice like a grab/dsmash/usmash or something. if youre feeling super defensive you can shield or spotdodge to extend invuln. you can even just wd back rehog (although i think you can get hit out of this) theres a LOT of stuff you can try. maybe come up with goofy options like ledgedash > run pass > shieldstop crossup uair? lmao
learn pika's upb ledgestall too (hog > drop a little > doublejump back to hog height > upb > regrab)
you can do a lot of stuff with ledgedash's invuln frames. ledgedash shffl nair is my fav but you can also just run past people. vs close opponents you can get something nice like a grab/dsmash/usmash or something. if youre feeling super defensive you can shield or spotdodge to extend invuln. you can even just wd back rehog (although i think you can get hit out of this) theres a LOT of stuff you can try. maybe come up with goofy options like ledgedash > run pass > shieldstop crossup uair? lmao
learn pika's upb ledgestall too (hog > drop a little > doublejump back to hog height > upb > regrab)
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N64
Smash Champion
You can also pretend you're fox/falco and drop from the ledge, double jump, and upB forward. You'll go through your opponent and if you're at the right height you won't have much landing lag.
If they stick out practically anything, though, you'll get hit mid-upB. Use sparingly.
If they stick out practically anything, though, you'll get hit mid-upB. Use sparingly.
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mynameisdog4
Smash Apprentice
So i was playing with my friend the other day and for some reason I kept messing up the OoS U-air and instead was getting OoS b-air. It worked but, I was wondering is it a safe option? Like U-air is more reliable, but b-air hits hard. Any opinions?
dkuo
Smash Lord
uair oos is safer and can act as a hitconfirm for a bair (uair > bair combo) so uair is pretty much always better
i think uair oos also outranges bair oos but im not sure since bair pushes pika back a little
bair causes more shieldstun in case they shield your oos attack, but in that position you're already screwed lol
maybe you can sh bair oos into landing hitbox for shieldpoke idk <_<
slight delayed bair oos lasts longer so sometimes people will jump into it if they try to punish uair oos, but for that purpose id prefer going with dair oos
(also i dont like making reads like that so maybe id just uair oos forever)
i think uair oos also outranges bair oos but im not sure since bair pushes pika back a little
bair causes more shieldstun in case they shield your oos attack, but in that position you're already screwed lol
maybe you can sh bair oos into landing hitbox for shieldpoke idk <_<
slight delayed bair oos lasts longer so sometimes people will jump into it if they try to punish uair oos, but for that purpose id prefer going with dair oos
(also i dont like making reads like that so maybe id just uair oos forever)
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N64
Smash Champion
bair oos is a hard read. As dkuo said, uair generally hit confirms into bair anyways, so you get more out of a uair anyways. Bair might do more damage against super floaties, but even then it's missing the big thing. Bair is risky. If it hits, fine. If it whiffs or hits their shield, you're stuck flailing in the air for a second, which is a long time in smash. Even if the opponent can't directly punish it, you still have a decent amount of landing lag (compared to other aerials) so you'll minimally just end up in a slightly worse situation.
It might be somewhat viable if your opponent is at super high percents, as uair would hit them too high to combo and the strong hit of bair would kill them, while the weak hit would still probably knock them down. But it's still pretty risky and relying on them to mess up and not know how to deal with bair.
It's not terrible, it's just generally... why bair when you could uair instead? heh.
It might be somewhat viable if your opponent is at super high percents, as uair would hit them too high to combo and the strong hit of bair would kill them, while the weak hit would still probably knock them down. But it's still pretty risky and relying on them to mess up and not know how to deal with bair.
It's not terrible, it's just generally... why bair when you could uair instead? heh.
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