Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[sulliman1]

quick question...what do i do when i whiff upair oos when my opponent is grounded/pressuring my back (especially fox/falco)? it's hard for me to sh upair oos especially under pressure so i'm usually stuck and they get under me...

should i just learn to do that better

falling with nair/bair just trades, usually not good for me, dair just whiffs and gets punished

upb escape to platform/edge!?

i use upair oos a lot as a quick pressure escape/combo starter...help!

 

[soju]

when uair OoS you should try and jump to them while uairing so you dont hit them with the gimp hitbox. if you do mess up, depending on how far you knocked them back you should either fastfall waveland close to them if they fell and missed their tech or if they're still standing and your back is to them its best to jump away, you can always try another falling uair. Also what you do depends on which character.

 

[DerfMidWest]

i like usmash OoS :3

 

[soju]

Usmash OoS is amazing, you just have to get the timing down which can be somewhat tough, for example a fox or falco pressuring your shield, both are gonna abuse their shines and dairs, you don't have enough time to usmash in between shines so your forced to wait till they jump. When they do you pretty much do the usmash then and there if they shorthop, or wait till theyre a little over your head if they full hop. Even then you might trade hits or be too late with the usmash and you don't usually have enough time because pikachu's shield is very pokeable. But the reward is pretty amazing. ;D

Also if you predict a dair and have enough time, you can wavedash OoS and have enough time to get off a fsmash. It's pretty nifty.

 

[sulliman1]

yeah usmash oos is great but this is when the pressure is behind me (especially near edge so rolling away sucks) so they'd be hit with the sourspot of usmash which is worthless...thanks for the advice though soju i will try it tonight

 

[oukd]

If I whiff uair oos completely I usually just retreat to the closest/highest platform (doublejump) and run away until they get off my tail. This is a lot easier with higher platforms so don't rely on uair on stage too much on stages like FD or certain parts of PS.

Also if you're trying to uair someone oos pressuring you from the back you can do a full hop instead, even if you don't sh you'll still hit with rising uair. Maybe that'll be easier

 

[indigestible_wad]

Instead of trying to sh uair on a grounded opponent, just fullhop uair. I don't think a sh uair is any more useful than fh uair if it's rising. If they're above you it's a different story. A fullhop uair is much easier to perform quicker. I have it under habit to always tapjump then press A for a grounded/rising uair, and I can literally get it frame perfect every time. Some people prefer to jump with the button and then input the uair, but that's more button commands than is necessary imo and moving the finger from x to a is a really tense movement at that speed when you have to also worry about the control stick.

 

[sulliman1]

i guess my main problem was that i was playin my friend's fox/falco at FD haha. thanks everyone

 

[soju]

My friends my theory has just came to be, after countless hours of testing and going to many random game fests. It was hard work but I have in fact proven my theory to be positive. This theory also works for pichu the tiny cousin of pikachu. But yes my theory is that;

Playing Pikachu gets you the ladies, i have in fact proven this through countless exercises.

While playing pikachu you get: a +10 Cuteness stat increase to the ladies, a 45% boost in ladies watching you, a 50% chance of ladies saying awww its pikachu, a 30% increase in the likelyhood of said lady people in playing with you, and a 100% awesome bonus. It is almost the same for pichu

On the opposite end; Ganondorf has the exact opposite effects, as seeing that statistically less lady people watched me play, and a 70% drop in those who played with me. Surprisingly bowser gives you benefit effects to my amazement.

I gained all this information while using Space animals as an average ;D And using my amazing asian brain power to get the stats

Remember this is all statistics, but due to me being a professional in the art of Pikachu i say this is 100% true. ;D


vvAxe approves of this theory as well transforming it into a Law of Science vv

 

[AXE 09]

My friends my theory has just came to be, after countless hours of testing and going to many random game fests. It was hard work but I have in fact proven my theory to be positive. This theory also works for pichu the tiny cousin of pikachu. But yes my theory is that;

Playing Pikachu gets you the ladies, i have in fact proven this through countless exercises.

While playing pikachu you get: a +10 Cuteness stat increase to the ladies, a 45% boost in ladies watching you, a 50% chance of ladies saying awww its pikachu, a 30% increase in the likelyhood of said lady people in playing with you, and a 100% awesome bonus. It is almost the same for pichu

On the opposite end; Ganondorf has the exact opposite effects, as seeing that statistically less lady people watched me play, and a 70% drop in those who played with me. Surprisingly bowser gives you benefit effects to my amazement.

I gained all this information while using Space animals as an average ;D And using my amazing asian brain power to get the stats

Remember this is all statistics, but due to me being a professional in the art of Pikachu i say this is 100% true. ;D

LOL omg *dies laughing* wow I love you so much lol!!

 

[soju]

yes i love you too, but you must know our love can never be.
The act of love between a wizardchu and a terry bogard chu is a forbidden act in the 6 regions of the world, including the orange islands. But fear not my love for i believe you shall find someone better with my newfound *law

 

[MasterShake]

Plus Soju already belongs to me.

 

[DerfMidWest]

^ I'll fight you for him O.O

anyways, "Soju's law," as it shall now be called, is pretty pimp. but god damn, why do I have to second Ganon (-.-")
Oh well, I believe my pichu is cute enough to make up for it, especially when I'm winning and like to mess with my opponent with my agility -> taunt mindgames :3

 

[soju]

Agility-> taunt is amazing for pichu and the fact you can usmash(or any other move besides jump) out of the taunt makes it Godlike
You agility next to a falcon and taunt, he gets butthurt and tries falcon punching you, middway through the taunt you fsmash the bejeezus out of him for thinking such a silly idea, or you might just get knee'd, either way works. :3

And I did forget the taunt bonus, Taunting while the female spectators watch increases the Aww rate from 50% -> 70%, Taunting after killing a lady person's character gives a 70% chance they will forgive you the other 30% they get butthurt >:3

And the gimp, avoid gimping when playing against lady people for they feel slightly bad afterwards. If they are watching on the other hand, gimp every male riffraff that comes before your all glorious pimpchu, then taunt. Works everytime.

Also they still love you even if you lose a match because pikachu is that amazing <3

 

[DerfMidWest]

everybody loves agility > taunt, except the guy who gets butthurt when you **** his mind with it. I **** their mind so hard it makes their anus bleed >:3

 

[AXE 09]

And I did forget the taunt bonus, Taunting while the female spectators watch increases the Aww rate from 50% -> 70%, Taunting after killing a lady person's character gives a 70% chance they will forgive you the other 30% they get butthurt >:3

And the gimp, avoid gimping when playing against lady people for they feel slightly bad afterwards. If they are watching on the other hand, gimp every male riffraff that comes before your all glorious pimpchu, then taunt. Works everytime.

Also they still love you even if you lose a match because pikachu is that amazing <3

*Takes notes*

Lol

 

[AXE 09]

Sorry for the double post you guys, but I've been messing around in training mode and I *think* I found something sorta knew, but Idk if anyone already knew about this.

But there IS, in fact, a way for Pikachu to ledge stall and stay 100% invincible the entire time.

It's a little hard for me to explain but here goes nothing lol.

Basically, your starting position is just holding the ledge. All you do is drop down a certain distance (about 3/4 the distance of your double jump), then double jump, and as soon as you're within grabbing distance of the ledge, press up-b. The ledge will cancel your up-b similar to how it cancels Fox/Falco's when they firestall. Your quick attack will just not come out at all, and instead be cancelled by grabbing the ledge.

I've already known about that for a long time now, but I never thought that you could do it quickly enough to stay invincible the whole time. It turns out that you can, but it's very hard to do. Once you grab the edge, you have to let go as soon as you're able to, and perform the stall nearly perfectly.

I tested this by going to Brinstar in training mode, setting the speed to 1/4, and attempting to stall on the edge while the lava rose. Being completely submerged in lava, I've gotten 2 stalls off, and I know that if it's possible to do 2 stalls then it must be possible to do an infinite number of times. It's just really hard to do when you can't see yourself lol. I'm going to practice this more.




Also I experimented with one other thing!

During some matches in certain situations, I wonder "why can I sometimes quick attack through platforms, and other times I cannot?"

Well I decided to do some tests to see what that's all about.

It turns out that... If you try to quick attack downwards through a platform when you're about Pikachu's standing body height above a platform or higher, then you will not go through the platform.

If you quick attack downwards when you're either standing on the platform, or airborne but lower than Pikachu's body height, then you will always go through the platform even if you let go of down before you reach the platform.

I used the top of Pikachu's head as a marker for how high you're allowed to go before you can no longer go through the platform anymore.

The 2nd part of Pikachu's quick attack works differently though. If you are above a platform at all, no matter how high you are above it, you can NEVER go through a platform with the 2nd part of your quick attack (at least that's the conclusion I came up with when I tested it).

I'll let you guys know if I find anything else out

 

[N64]

That's pretty neat. Didn't know about either of those. Good finds axe!

 

[soju]

ah interesting, i already knew a bit about the first one but have never been fast enough to actually use it in real play, the other tidbit is quite interesting and informational

 

[indigestible_wad]

On the subject of ledge stalling, does the immediate ledgedrop to diagonal down quick attack regrab allow you to be invincible the entire time? Because I recently found out that I can do it semi consistently on the left side of the stage.

 

[soju]

nope havent been able to get fully invincible with it XD It could be, i just never been able to do it

 

[AXE 09]

On the subject of ledge stalling, does the immediate ledgedrop to diagonal down quick attack regrab allow you to be invincible the entire time? Because I recently found out that I can do it semi consistently on the left side of the stage.

I've tried and tried and tried but I couldn't that one to be invincible the entire time I'll keep testing different stuff though as much as I can

 

[DerfMidWest]

but axe is already invincible :3

 

[oukd]

It's hard but it's possible. Since I started messing around with TAS'ing in Dolphin recently I decided to test it out. Up-B ledgestalling can be done in the same amount of frames per hog as Axe's technique.

I got bored enough to make these gifs:

According to Magus, ledge invincibility lasts for 37 frames for everyone other than Link, so both of these should be fully invincible. I'm pretty sure I'm missing a frame for Axe's ledgestall technique since I always get 37 frames per hog, but for some reason it always comes out to 36 frames when I record it which is technically impossible. I always lose an extra frame before the regrab. Maybe a missed frame capture?

I managed to get Axe's technique to work through a full cycle (almost 2 cycles) on Brinstar but I messed up the regrab. (in TAS, I know, but Dolphin's frame advance function keeps throwing my timing off) I might try it later.

It seems that as long as you're close enough to regrab the ledge during frame 37 while you're in a ledgehoggable state (ie near the end of your charging-up-B animation or near the end of your first up-B animation) you'll end up regrabbing and keep your invincibility going from the first hog.

 

[DerfMidWest]

looks pree sexy actually.

 

[KingClubber]

Wow, I just made this up over a month ago

Also another trick that i thought of watching a falco video. Agility Stall.

Agility Stall is just like Falco's Forward-B stall, but a lot more harder to pull off but possible. Which you do is let go the ledge by tapping back away from the stage, and immediately hit up-b, and press forward. It might take a bit to get use to, and i haven't tested it against anyone yet.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Clubber you got so mad when i told you this xP

and like I said, I'm pretty sure lots of people have had this idea, but you never proved that it works, so why are you so mad?

also, what you described isn't the same thing...

 

[soju]

yeah its an idea thats been floating around a while, but no one has put any research into it until now

 

[KingClubber]

yeah its an idea thats been floating around a while, but no one has put any research into it until now

I'm the one who has been doing research this whole time trying to come up with ideas for Pichu, if the idea has been floating around like you said, why hasn't anyone proved it worked until 'Now'. I know the way i do it is different for pichu, but it works the same.

And Aesir lay off man, i had just got back from work at the time and saw there was a meeting going on, finding out someone was claiming they found a tech that i had thought of and made work before even if no one thought much of it as the time seeing as it is pichu. Really tick me off, not want to vent on you guys i left.

So i was already upset before you told me about this, this just made me not want deal with it at the time. Which is why i didn't post this until this mourning, go read the post again, i'm sure you could understand now that you know this.

 

[soju]

Sorry but this isn't the pichu boards XD and no its not really the same, yeah they have the same moves but they could have different frame rates. True you could have been the first person to actually suggest and put a little more thought into the theory, but coming to the pikachu boards saying you created a technique on a character that is similar in many ways but still different then ours is a little far fetched.

And I read over your post, you never put any actual proof or data that it really works. And the reason the idea has been floating around this whole time is the fact of how hard it is to actually do and it'll be hard to implement such a technique in actual gameplay such as the double up-b that we discussed a while back.

We also need to give a lot of credit to dkuo for actually taking the time to get frame data on this actually proving its a possibility

 

[KingClubber]

I understand that, also just tested it with pikachu which I found is easier to do then with pichu.

=_=

Must be the body size or something.

 

[Anand]

Haha, guys, from Magus years ago:

Invincibility from ledge (begins at start of ledge grab) = 37 frames

Ledge hold waiting period before able to let go = 8 frames
Minimum ledge regrab waiting period from letting go of ledge(all characters) = 29 frames

8 + 29 = 37
0 frame room for error for all stalls without invincibility on the up-b to stay completely invincible
Must hit to let go on the 8th frame (to be off of it on the 9th) of holding the ledge (0.1333... seconds)


LHWL = Ledge-hop -> Waveland back towards edge -> fastfall -> regrab
Jump = drop -> FF -> DJ -> regrab
Bowser's ledge attack stall is on fourside or the rock form of Poke Stadium

(Anything over 37 is not an infinite stall without up-b invincibility)

Ganon : jump=37, LHWL regrab=37
Falcon : jump=40, LHWL regrab=37
Zelda : up-b=37
Sheik : Dur Dedurr. *****' 10 frames out of 37 room for error >_>
Bowser : jump=37, LHWL regrab=43, ledge attack with fast fall regrab=35 (39 non-FFed)
Mewtwo : double-jump to ledgecancelled up-b=47 total minimum(invincible from up-b as soon as ~29), up-b=37
Pikachu : double-jump to ledgecancelled up-b=37, up-b=37
Pichu : ? (probably same as pikachu)
Fox : up-b=37, over-b=38
Falco : up-b=37, over-b=37

Jiggs : LHWL regrab=41, ledgehop to FF f-air=50

 

[soju]

lol it appears we can stop this silly argument and call magus the best :3

 

[oukd]

omg gaiz. I just made gifs because I was bored and wanted to have something to show that both axe's thing and up+b stall worked <_> the idea for up+b stalling has been around for fairly long though

on a different note, if anyone wants me to test anything in dolphin TAS I'll be up for it :D good learning experience imo

 

[soju]

>o> would you be able to find out if any of pikachus move have any sort of invincibility <333

 

[oukd]

ah none of them do :[ not even during any part of up-B...figures I suppose

 

[AXE 09]

It's hard but it's possible. Since I started messing around with TAS'ing in Dolphin recently I decided to test it out. Up-B ledgestalling can be done in the same amount of frames per hog as Axe's technique.

I got bored enough to make these gifs:

According to Magus, ledge invincibility lasts for 37 frames for everyone other than Link, so both of these should be fully invincible. I'm pretty sure I'm missing a frame for Axe's ledgestall technique since I always get 37 frames per hog, but for some reason it always comes out to 36 frames when I record it which is technically impossible. I always lose an extra frame before the regrab. Maybe a missed frame capture?

I managed to get Axe's technique to work through a full cycle (almost 2 cycles) on Brinstar but I messed up the regrab. (in TAS, I know, but Dolphin's frame advance function keeps throwing my timing off) I might try it later.

It seems that as long as you're close enough to regrab the ledge during frame 37 while you're in a ledgehoggable state (ie near the end of your charging-up-B animation or near the end of your first up-B animation) you'll end up regrabbing and keep your invincibility going from the first hog.

OMG you are incredible for making these!! Wow you have no idea how amazing these are! Very very good job man


As for the ledge stalling, that idea has been around for a very long time now, but I wasn't aware that anyone tested to see if you were completely invincible the entire time. But apparently Magus is a BEAST!! Lol

And just making sure Duko, are you fast falling that ledge drop?

 

[N64]

Yeah, one of these days I should get get a compiled list of links to magus thread/posts. So whenever I think "Hey I wonder if..." I can skim through and very probably find the answer.

Good stuff dkuo for the gifs though. They are handy!

 

[oukd]

Thanks guys! :D

@AxE: no I'm softdropping for that specific gif. To be specific, I hold left through the whole thing (including the doublejump) until I up+B. Here's another one where I fastfall and then jump back.

This technique does not require absolute frame-perfect execution for the jumps. I actually messed up while doing the inputs for this TAS (I had my double jump and up+B each come out 1 frame later than I was planning to) and it still maintained full invincibility. I think as long as you're:

1. near the end of your starting up+B animation before you enter quickattack (mostly speculation, I'll test the regrab window for this later)
2. near the end of your invincibility (you can't hog during the 37 invincible frames which is why doing it too fast doesn't work) 3 year late edit: you cant rehog 29 frames after ledge release. not affected by invuln state
3. close enough to regrab (duh)

...it should work.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Those gifs are truly awesome.

Also, while you're in Dolphin, can you test Pika's super glide against different opponents? I know Pika's glide can only be triggered when he up b's into an opponent's compatible attack, but I was super curious since it could possibly be used if you can predict an opponent's move.