Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[V3ctorMan]

At least it's not as bad as yours

you're right it's not bad...

mine is exquisite... and perfect

yours is bleh and.... pikachu >>

 

[DerfMidWest]

N64 makes the best posts

 

[Krynxe]

Vman calling all the pikachu mains out in their own turf

dayum son

 

[V3ctorMan]

^what da problem is?

xD

 

[Jackie]

What it is?

P.S. Jeff: I secondary Pikachu now

 

[Shadocat]

Just now i was just practicing sweetspoting my quick attacks. Then suddenly I QA'd back onto the stage, clashed with a pichu jab, then quickly slid(super samus wavedash like) across the other end of the stage.

This was on yoshis story btw

 

[Captain Smuckers]

That would have been pikachu's super wavedash. Basically, during the second zip of his up-B, if he comes into contact with a move of equal priority, such as his own thunder jolt or pichu's jab, he super wavedashes across the stage.

In other news I'm entering what should be my first all pikachu tournament tomorrow, wish me luck <_<

 

[oukd]

yeeeee get em smuckers, show them the power of iron tail

also i realized ive been really dumb about instant sh uair...i can just buffer the up-motion during the jumplag/landlag like cf players =_= it's only slightly harder but so much more consistently working than my old method of left thumb to cstick

edit: pikachu officially has ganon-status perfect wavelands off most of his jumps. you can sh ff perfect waveland both forward/backwards (wasn't sure if you could ff before) fh waveland side platforms (not perfect height like ganon but you know what im saying) fh ff perfect waveland...etc. only difficulty is doublejump waveland which I think can be done but not sure. the easiest time to do it is any time before his freefalling animation (including when he's flipping around to enter his freefalling animation). how come nobody's ever noticed this before...also you can do it after instant sh uair

edit: one more thing - axe, i see you do instant sh uairs really consistently but you still fh uair more often than not which sort of makes sense because there are lots of scenarios where landing a fh uair is more rewarding than a sh uair...but can you kind of go over where you think it's more/less effective? sorry if this is like a really weird question lol <_< it's just that i remember a while ago you were talking about how you needed to learn how to consistently do instant sh uair since people in az were baiting your fh uair to punish, so i figure you'd have the best understanding of when to/when not to use sh uair in place of fh uair

now that i think about it, sh uair is still pretty easy to punish lol

 

[AXE 09]

^I think the reason why I still do full jump Uairs is just because it's pretty deeply wired into my brain. Every time I'm being shield pressured, or after I do a cross-up Nair, I immediately just do a full jump Uair. I've done it for so many years that it's extremely hard to break the habit. But yes, I know that a lot of times, a SH Uair would've had better results. I know I can do it, but it's just a matter of breaking that habit. And I haven't worked really hard to break that habit yet, but I think it's about time I start.

I do SH Uair sometimes in situation when I normally full jump IN FRIENDLIES anyways, but when it comes to tournament, I still full jump just out of habit. I'll start working on fixing that though, so I can use both whenever I need to.

 

[oukd]

oh <_< I somehow thought you were using it when you felt fh uair was better...now I kind of feel bad for assuming lol

with that said, i think fh uair under platforms is more rewarding against mid-high% opponents since you can react to di (since you're already on the plat) and punish with anything before they move

 

[AXE 09]

Everyone always assumes I do things on purpose but I do soooo much on accident haha.

It's awesome when people say "nice!!" When I do something on accident. I just go along with it and say thanks LOL

 

[oukd]

Ya I know what you mean, I have the exact same problem...higher apm = higher epm (errors per minute)

 

[Captain Smuckers]

So i finally did it. I played all of my tournament matches with pika instead of relying on that stupid bird type pokemon known as falco. I didn't do exceptionally well or anything, but I feel that I can finally make the move to maining pika more than falco. Also, Axe I played m2k in bracket and my god does it suck. I don't know how you even begin to deal with him lol. I did actually beat a sheik in bracket, i'm moderately okay against sheiks.....just not m2k.

 

[DerfMidWest]

M2k only wins because he smells so bad. Once you get past that he's free as hell

 

[iRobinhoood]

Also, Axe I played m2k in bracket and my god does it suck. I don't know how you even begin to deal with him lol. I did actually beat a sheik in bracket, i'm moderately okay against sheiks.....just not m2k.

I watched this set! I used Samus for bracket but I played Pika in a couple of friendlies. Smuckers if you're going to No Johns next Saturday we should playy.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

How do you think I did other than the parts where I was being chain grabbed from 0-60% lol. I should mention that when i sat down to play him he just immediately chose final destination to play on. I figured it was a warmup or something cause I'd never go there, but he counted it lol! he gave me a third game anyway though. I actually looked for you at collision. Well, I was looking around for someone with a strange looking controller cause I'd heard that you might go, but I didn't know who you were . Anyway I'm hoping to go to no johns, but I'm not certain yet, I guess I'll see.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Oh snaps, yes I do have a wide range of interestingly colored controllers! But I only use my white tourney controller form PlayAsia at tournaments.

I faced Eggm Round 1 and a guy named Max I believe in losers? I didn't do too well... still new to the tournament scene. I'm most likely going to show for No Johns this Saturday. Practicing against a different crowd of players and players of greater skill is helping me out.

 

[mr q]

just throwing this out there, what are some character specific combos pikachu can pull out? i know he can chaingrab spacies and falcon or maybe get a d-throw to u-smash if your lucky, but are there others anyone can think about?

 

[DerfMidWest]

Uhm... Just do whatever. If you see something go for it.
Melee isn't about memorizing combos.
DI and such makes that a silly thing to do.

 

[N64]

uair->whatever.

imo the main two things you're looking for combo-wise is what you can get out of a uair on the char at their percentage, and if nair->usmash will work on the char. Uair->uair will work on pretty much every char, but with more fastfally chars (there needs to be a better way to say that) you generally have better options. On the spacies you can get grab or usmash or something out of it. On average chars you can get usmash at low percents. At higher percents or on floatier chars you can get a nair/dair/bair.

I guess the last consistent combo you're looking for is usmash->thunder, which works on everyone in basically a "go for thunder if usmash doesn't quite kill them" way.

There's probably other stuff, but yea.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I think its smarter to try and force your opponent into bad positions than to focus on combos (at least with pika), not to say combos are bad or anything

The main thing I would recommend learning are you two step combos.
Nair->grab/usmash/uair/nair/dtilt(don't know how good that is for pika, but it ***** with pichu)
Oh and usmash->thunder, ofc

But getting your opponent into awkward positions where you can follow up is priority number 1.


Oh, forgot about jolt->grab and uair->grab (don't know if that even works for pika lol)

 

[oukd]

^of course forcing opponents into bad positions is better lol, you can't really force combos with anybody and approaching is always better when your opponent is at their weakest. setting up the combo is the neutral game, comboing is the offensive game. both need to be solid if you want to do well so you should focus on both.

a lot of pika's hits give very controlled trajectories and hitstun that are much easier to follow up with than expected. you might want to ask axe for good combo series that he has down, but it's true that a lot of pika's combo game rely on reaction/feel. here's some off the top of my head.

Spoiler

general:
uair chains > bair/dair/nair finisher for damage/knockback
uair chains (typically from ground) > usmash/grab/etc (on platform)
tailspike off platform > grab/usmash/nair/ftilt/etc (I absolutely love this setup)
nair > a bunch of stuff (usually crossup-uair, but can include usmash/dsmash/ftilt/dtilt/utilt/nair/etc depending on where the opponent is at/moving towards after getting hit, what you're going for, and percentage)
mid/high% usmash > thunder (aka thunderflip)
uair > thunder (cheap thunderflip lol)
running fh dair > usmash works unusually well
running sh tailspike against airborne opponents links horizontally pretty well but is tricky

fastfallers:
uthrow > uthrow > etc
uthrow > usmash/uair/pretty much any move
very very long uair chains, can end in usmash/grab/etc depending on where you are
sh rising uair > grab/usmash/etc on ground
low% usmash > usmash (lol) or grab or w/e

non-ff'ers:
uthrow > aerial, possibly tailspike > grounded move on floaties (AND possible grab & repeat)
sh rising uair > aerial/usmash/etc
low% usmash > aerial

gimmicky stuff:
fair > uair tailspike (without dj after fair) (not a real combo but catches very often)
fthrow > grab (not a combo but usually works at least once since people tend to shield after fthrow, so save it for when it's really good position-wise)
dthrow > usmash against non-ffer's isn't a real combo but can work occasionally. dthrow > jab can work as a combo though, and dthrow > ftilt has a more likely chance of hitting than usmash.
dthrow jab regrab is about as gimmicky as you can get but you don't get much out of it

difference between sh and fh rising uair is that after fh rising uair you typically get to continue combos with a dj or with the platform - sh uair lets you continue with another jump so you can save your dj, or use a grounded followup (much harder to use platforms but still works)

hm that was a lot longer than i meant it to be <_<

 

[mr q]

^good stuff

 

[Inty17]

Does anyone here think Pikachu is better than Falcon? Cause I have this theory that if there were more pika players, he'd be at least top 8.

 

[Divinokage]

More Pika players also means more people know the matchup better and that could also mean he would drop because of that.

 

[oukd]

I don't think Pika is better than Falcon in the least...but the matchup does happen to be really even. Even if the Falcon knew the matchup just as well as the Pika, it's still something around 50-50, maybe slight edge to Falcon.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Dat chain grab.

 

[N64]

imo falcon does at least slightly better in about every high tier matchup (except maybe vs spacies) than pikachu does.

They do about the same vs Fox
Pika probably does slightly better vs Falco
Falcon does better vs Jiggs
Falcon does slightly better vs Sheik
They do about the same vs Marth
Falcon does better vs Peach
They do about the same vs Falcon
Falcon does slightly better vs ICs
Falcon does slightly better vs Ganon
Falcon does slightly better vs Samus
Falcon does a lot better vs Doc

and then Falcon does a loooot better vs almost all of the lower tiers (except mayyybe pikachu) than pikachu. There are a number of lower tier matchups that actually give pika trouble (Mario, Luigi, and Link and Yoshi to a lesser extent), where Falcon to my knowledge doesn't have any problematic low tier matchups other than vs Pikachu.

most of this is imo, but although Falcon has bad matchups among the high tiers, Pikachu's are generally worse, especially when you start moving further down the tierlist.

 

[Krynxe]

from personal experience, I found pika vs luigi to be quite difficult for pika.

The usmash works well on him because he's pretty floaty, but approaching luigi can be difficult and you can't really combo him. Gimps are possible, but difficult and not reliable.

Axe/n64, thoughts?

 

[oukd]

im totally neither of those two <_< BUUT i think pika has a very easy time shutting down his wd approach with nairs and tilts (or just spacing outside of wd approach range) which almost shuts down luigi entirely...also unlike the other mario bros luigi's dthrow doesn't have a guaranteed followup if you di behind him

edgeguarding him isn't too bad either, just tailspike/dair/hit him after a missile when he's in range, it has so much ending lag lol. same with tornado recovery (usually when he's right below the sweetspot) (you can also up+b edgehog right after it's over). and if that's not possible...do this

i do agree that both of them have trouble approaching each other though, but pikachu has a much better time barraging with approaches than luigi does.

 

[N64]

luigi is tough

Axe/n64, thoughts?

Spoiler

Advantages:
+Has horrible recovery
+Not much aerial mobility
+Light and floaty

Disadvantages:
-Huge priority on aerials
-Lots of ground mobility
-Plenty of finishers
-Plenty of good defensive options

General Strategy:
This matchup will be all about punishing positional mistakes and knowing exactly when Luigi is and isn't vulnerable, and reacting appropriately. Luigi has huge priority on a lot of his moves and will beat you if you try to contest them. In a game of trading blows he wins easily, but where he struggles is in recovery, his lack of aerial mobility, and his floatiness. This is what have to punish, and fortunately you have tools to do so. Look for openings, get him off the edge, and make sure he doesn't make it back. If you can't accomplish this before he gets to 70-80%ish, upsmash becomes a kill option, if a bit of a risky one.

Approaching:
There won't be much opportunity for traditional approaching against a decent Luigi. With his excellent wavedash he has a lot of ground mobility, which makes it easy for him to wavedash back out of your approach almost regardless of how you angle it, and wavedash back in (if necessary) and punish you. If you ever whiff an approach, he can often dsmash you, short hop into a quick aerial, or occasionally even upB you. He can also beat aerial approaches with fair, dair, or nair, which all have good hitboxes and hurt. His fireballs are pretty bad, so you don't have to worry much at all about them while approaching, you just have to worry about the wall of priority he can quickly create around him and his slippiness on the ground.

This doesn't, however, give him free reign to just sit and throw out moves. His aerials have good priority, but there's also a bit of lag after them. His wavedash is really good, but there's still a short interval at the start of it where he can't do anything. He also can't cover a lot of distance with wavedash if he runs out of platform/stage room in the direction he wants to go. There are holes in his defense that you need to bring out and take advantage of. Fakeing approaches can be pretty valueable in this matchup, as causing him to whiff something opens up small options for you. For instance, if you jump forward and then waveland back before you reach him and he falls for it expecting you to commit to the approach, he'll likely do one of two things as mentioned before. If he wavedashes back, then you remain out of lag and far enough away that he can't punish you, but now you've pushed him closer to the edge so he has less room to work with. If he jumps and throws out an aerial, then you can either punish the lag of that aerial with a nair if you're close enough, or just move close enough that he feels threatened. If he's in the air and you're out of range of his fair and dair, then there isn't much he can do to you from that position because of his lack of aerial mobility, while you threaten to jump forward and immediately nair, or usmash him before he lands, at any point. If he does nothing or throws out a defensive aerial before you do anything, you get a free punish on that. If he then double jumps to reposition himself, you can uair spike him. Off the stage without his double jump is a dead Luigi.

Combos:
Comboing Luigi is difficult to impossible because of how fast his nair comes out and how it beats almost everything. For this and other reasons, you want to end combos pretty early and safely on him and try to end the combo with something that will send him close to or off the edge of the stage. You want to gimp him, building up damage on him is secondary. He's pretty light and floaty as well, so simple uair->nair or uair->uairspike combos are about as much as you'll get.

Killing:
Gimp him. Force him towards the edge by getting him into the air, finding holes in his defense as outlined before, and then knocking him towards the edge with a nair or uair. Throwing out fsmash is also pretty safe as long as you don't completely whiff. It has good range, will beat him if he tries to wavedash in and do something, and most importantly has the knockback to send him off the stage at low-mid percentages. If he shields it, it also has the shieldstun and will push him back far enough that he can't really punish it. Your main priority is to get him off the stage, pretty much regardless of what his percentage is, and then edgeguarding him which should relatively easy.

KOs off the top are still possible once he hits 70%ish on most stages Due to his ground mobility, having a usmash whiff or get shielded lets him get free damage on you, and kill if you're at higher percentages. Use it sparingly and don't make it obvious that you're going for it, but use it if the opportunity presents itself. It's pretty much always ok to trade usmash with one of his aerials, it will trade.

Edgeguarding:
Luigi's recovery can be a bit awkward, but it's pretty bad and punishable. First off, you need to understand his recovery options. He's floaty, so he can get some distance from just holding forward as he falls. He can also forwardB, which gives him a little distance. 1/7th of the time this will misfire, giving him a lot more distance and speed as well as a lot of knockback if he hits you. Watch out for this, but it's generally easy to counter (while powerful, its hitbox isn't that good and can be cleanly beaten by just an ftilt, or you can shield it and punish its lag) if you anticipate it. He has an alright second jump that mostly gives him vertical distance, and he also has one downB which turns him into a hitbox and gives him a small amount of vertical and horizontal distance (but mostly just stalls his recovery). Lastly, his upB goes only vertically, making it generally easy to edgehog. Because each of his options are relatively short and linear, it means it can be very difficult to recover if he's sent below the stage at a diagonal angle from the ledge. Which is exactly where uair spike will put him.

For general edgeguarding, get a good understanding of what his recovery options are, wait for him to commit to one, and then try to punish that. If he overBs from too high/too close to you, you can easily uair spike it (as long as it doesn't misfire). If he tries to get under the stage and recover from directly below, you can edgehog (normally, or with a surprise upB ledgehog from the stage) relatively easily. Just watch out for him to delay his upB by downBing first and wear out your ledge invulnerability or bait you into rolling onto the stage too early. Jolts can be useful for catching him off the stage, but due to his floatiness he'll usually just use them to get a little height and then forwardB again hoping to misfire. Generally it's best to chase him off the stage yourself.

What to watch out for:
The main things to watch out for in this matchup are his aerials and his wavedash. In the air, his moves beat yours. If you can get under him, your uair will still go through anything he has and due to his floatiness he can't easilly fastfall onto you with something, but from about any other angle his aerials win. Don't try to contest them unless the reward greatly outweighs the risk (i.e. you're at very low percent, are pretty sure you can trade your dair with his whatever, and you know it will kill him). His wavedash is also pretty scary, as it allows him to cover a lot of ground quickly and he has decent options out of it. Wd into ftilt covers a huge area and can put good pressure on you. Wd into dmash is pretty quick and does good damage, while wd into fsmash is a little delayed and can catch you if you're expecting ftilt/dsmash, and also does good damage. He can also grab you if you try to shield as he comes in, which leads to usually dthrow->aerial.

Recovering:
Recovering against Luigi isn't too bad as long as you don't make any huge mistakes. If he kills you it will generally be from the sheer knockback of his moves, rather than from edgeguarding. He can't really chase you off the edge due to his poor recovery, fireballs are awful for edgeguarding, and the only things he has that reach below the ledge are aerials. Just remember that if he's on the stage, he can wavedash to the ledge pretty quickly from a good distance. If he's ledgehogging, he can wavedash a good distance onto the stage and catch you if you try to recover there. It's generally pretty safe recovering to platforms, the most he'll get on you is usually an aerial that you can DI and stay on/near stage at low-mid percents (which is better than losing a stock to edgeguarding).

Final Notes:
Take him to the air where he's least mobile, use your mobility to fake approaches (and keep him on his toes with occasional real approaches) and force him to commit to options, and then use these created openings to push him off the stage. Uair makes this matchup doable for you, I can't stress its importance enough. Use your aerial mobility to keep the momentum on your side, as if you let him set up his game then you'll find yourself with increasingly less space from his wall of aerials and quick ground approaches. If he does get in on you, try to get to the air and escape to platforms until you're in a better position to move around and create openings yourself. Be mindful of his nair, as it can quickly turn momentum in his favor. Don't get greedy with combos, just do a couple of hits and try to force him towards the edge, racking up damage is secondary. Focus on gimping him and respect his aerial priority, and you make this matchup that much easier.

Stage Counterpicks:
Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium, and Fountain of Dreams are all decent counterpicks against Luigi in my opinion. Dreamland is big, which gives each of you decent room to move around, but the large blastzones extend Pikachu's life noticably while not doing much for Luigi. Pokemon Stadium allows for earlier usmash kills, and also the transformations tend to favor Pikachu more than Luigi. Fountain of Dreams is a little risky, as Pikachu will die sooner, but the unique slidiness of the stage makes it easy for many moves to push Luigi towards the edge on hit or shield.

tl:dr / stop-being-lazy-n64-and-type-some-oc version:
I agree with you. Luigi controls groundspace fairly well by being pretty mobile on it. Combine this with a good ftilt and damaging, quick aerials out of a shorthop and he can be rough to face. It's a match where you haaaaave to stay mobile because of the speed at which luigi can get in on you, and you can't really beat his wd-in -> ftilt on reaction (you can at least trade favorably with your fsmash if you predict right, but if you predict wrong it's a free approach for luigi). Luigi is much less mobile in the air, but a lot of his power comes from his aerials, so facing him head-on there is risky.

The other difficult part besides dealing with his wd is that his floatiness and nair make comboing him pretty awkward. You often won't be able to get more than a couple hits, as his nair will hit you before you can follow up with anything, so most of the time you'll be trying to bait him to nair reactively and then try to hit him with another spaced uair (hopefully sending him off the stage). Mostly, this makes racking up damage on him and also maintaining momentum pretty difficult against luigi.

You still have strong options though. If you can stay mobile and stop luigi from just wding around as he pleases (with jolts, good stage usage, positioning so that you can approach him at an awkward angle for him to defend, etc.) he has a rough time stopping you from approaching. His ftilt is good for covering the area straight in front of him, but he doesn't have anything from the ground to deal with you jumping in on him. His best option is to shorthop->fair or jumpback->dair, but that puts him in the air for a short time. If you bait out this reaction (say you jump forward and then double jump before you get to him or waveland back before you land), then he can't easily avoid your next approach. As with most matchups, he really doesn't want to be above you, so he can either double jump away (which is REALLY scary for luigi in this matchup if you catch him with a uair spike afterwards) or throw out another aerial asap to try to stop you. With good timing you can still get in and hit him with a nair, space outside of the second aerial and usmash him, catch him after his double jump with a uair spike, etc. Anything that hits him towards the edge is good, and anything that hits him off is awesome. Luigi's recovery is pretty bad, and pikachu is pretty good at abusing bad recoveries. Being offstage can mean death for luigi regardless of percentage, once his double jump is gone his recovery becomes incredibly predictable and pretty easy to abuse.

It's awkward because you usually have to go-in-but-not-really-because-his-aerials-hurt. Lots of spacing uair and then jumping in with nair only when you know he can't aerial you first. Pikachu can punish him hard, but Luigi just hurts so gosh darn much.

 

[oukd]

^ehhhh from my experience wd ftilt is very gimmicky.

it's fast, comes out quick and hits far so it's a very scary approach that might pop out of nowhere. but it doesn't put luigi in any frame advantage until after mid %'s...around 55% or so when you have to start teching it, but before then any ftilt will almost always break even and at best reset you both. in fact hitting you below 40% with ftilt actually puts you in frame advantage (with no di) and this is all without cc...and cc works wonders against luigi. i feel like most of the time luigi's wd ftilt is used only to surprise people and to try and create a reaction that they can punish (mostly shield). it's kind of like wd jab except it's even more punishable and easy to react to it's also good at interrupting you though, but the hitstun is really not that bad at lower %'s.

just for the record a lot of this is after messing with luigi a little the last few days, testing out random attacks and such

so...you shouldn't be scared of wd ftilt approach imo until higher %'s. you should be aware of some functional approaches luigi has though, such as wd dsmash (catches you running away) and wd usmash (hits you out of a shorthop) also wd jab has less range but can catch you offguard moreso than wd ftilt imo

everything else i agree with. comboing luigi is hard dealing with his nairing out of combos is a matter of being familiar with your own hitbox properties, most notably the hitstun you can apply. the moment you think you might be too slow to followup is the time you don't overextend.

 

[N64]

Agree.

I suppose i've had the most issue with his ftilt because i'm simply not used to a character covering such distance so quickly. And trying to beat his wd approach in general is pretty risky, as he can choose to do any of what you said (dsmash, jab, usmash, ftilt, sh->aerial right after, etc.) and none of pika's options (especially on reaction) on their own beat most or even more than one of these. imo it's best to just try to avoid being in that situation.

 

[Inty17]

I just think in order to be successful with this character, you have to be playing amazingly every day, or devote a large amount of time for tech skill. It's really easy to play badly with this character, and that's not because I think Pika is bad. If I'm not on point 100% of the time, I get rocked, and it's frustrating.

 

[PMsurveys]

I have a question for axe : D!
With your pika rushdown playstyle that you use against many chars, I'm wondering if you could spread some info about what sort of DI you use to prevent yourself from getting screwed over while approaching with a shffl nair.
For example: Approaching with a shffl nair against falcon. Do you press down+away from falcon right before your nair makes contact with him to save your self from being swallowed by a defensive combo starter?

A lot of people seem to just move back+try to interrupt your nair approaches with something juicy for themselves, so I'm guessing you use some sort of DI vs certain moves+characters during your own approaches as insurance for yourself. Am I right?

 

[AXE 09]

Well, when I approach with a Nair and I can tell that I'm about to get hit, I usually either just do regular survival DI (diagonally towards the stage and up) or try to double stick tech on the floor (c-stick down and control stick down/away) if I think that'll be better. I can usually tell when I'm about to be hit upon landing from my Nair approach, so I never really do a "just in case" DI in that situation.

 

[oukd]

just-in-case di messes with your trajectory

 

[N64]

**** that.

hold forward like a man....chu

 

[mr q]

n64 i like your style ^ lol

 

[DerfMidWest]

I didn't read any thing on this page that was more than a paragraph, so sorry if i'm repeating stuff.

From my experience with vudu/abate:
You need to get weegee in the air above you. He's bad in that position.
There are a couple of ways to do this, the best, imo, is to bait his approach (usually ftilt) and CC dsmash.

You need to be ready for stupid gimmicky things. Luigi players don't think like the average player and will do random **** to catch you off guard. Some of them like to throw out random green missiles hoping for a misfire.

Staying grounded seems to work best for me. Throwing in random jolts is good too. If you approach, you need to overshoot... Because that WD is stupid.

When edgeguarding, ALWAYS expect the misfire. Ftilt beats it out, iirc.
You can react to non misfires easily.

For some reason, a lot of people just let luigi rising tornado...
Don't do that.
If you hit him out of it, he's probably dead unless he misfires.

Oh, and the marth slayer works on Luigi's upB, so do that.