Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

yeah, a gun and grenades would easily solve his vertical movement fiasco, which does not exist

You left out the part where I said wings.....the vertical movement I was referring to was in his dolphin slash but whatever.....

 

[GPEternity]

marth's vert is fine, he has his double jump, db boost, and ds. more accurately would be his lack of horizontal boosting while recovering which makes recovering from an attack with a ton of horizontal launch very difficult and also forces marth to recover low or high in most situations.

@Kishin, marth's biggest weakness IMO is his insane learning curve. while he certaintly possess the tools and means to compete, you must be flawless to put those tools to use. many of marth's advantages and tricks require your timing to be extremely precise and your smallest mistakes can cost you greatly. other high+ tier characters don't have this particular weakness because they have things like laser projectiles, super speed, broken tilts, kill you at 90% attacks etc.

also, if you break their shield, attacking them in the air is pointless. just let them fall and charge another SB or a smash.

 

[Kishin]

Hmmm, I'm not sure on either answer. We need someone to clarify and confirm or suggest a new idea.

I had the idea of shield break on ledge -> D-air spike and I failed enough times to make me wonder about it. It might effect something like the spacing for Jigglypuff to Rest someone after breaking shield.

 

[KRiMz0N]

You left out the part where I said wings.....the vertical movement I was referring to was in his dolphin slash but whatever.....

Marth greatest weakness IMO would be his lack of vertical movement while recovery they should have given him wings and a gun and some grenades.

you stated that to help his vertical movement he should be given wings, a gun and grenades

i stated that a gun and grenades would not help his vertical movement

 

[GPEternity]

drop a grenade and shoot it with the gun for a snake c4 style recovery.

@Kishin, i don't know about spiking them midair, spiking them at lower percentages can be cancelled, not only that but since they are still probably over the stage you need to angle it so that you'd spike them at an angle outward. not only could they easily DI that spike back to stage (i almost never get spiked close to the stage because i simply DI toward the stage and hit the ground). if they are extremely close to the edge the shieldbreak puts them in a freefall that could cause them to plummet to their doom off the side. at percentages that a spike would be a guaranteed kill on most characters, a fully charged perfectly tipped shieldbreaker will kill them off the side. fully charged tipper shieldbreaker probably kills a good half the cast off the side close to the edge at around 65%.

 

[Kishin]

Oh I know that shield break at ledge -> D-air spike isn't the least bit viable unless maybe the shield break was on a moving platform (smashville) and they were at a high percentage. I thought it would be fun to try it in training mode. It then made me notice something , that's all.

The unanswered questions still need some answering or a" No, the answer to that question is not known at the moment of now". I then have another question to ask, why does a HIGHER percentage make the shield break stun SHORTER? That makes absolutely no sense. Maybe Sakurai thought that shield breaking was overpowered and had to nerf it by doing this... If someone else has another theory on why this is so please say so.

 

[Ayaz18]

what are good Marth CPs

only the really legal CP's

the tourny i'm going to has a lot of stages banned (norfair, distant planet, picto, etc.)

 

[GPEternity]

i didn't know higher percentages made shield break stun shorter. i thought it was the same actually. either way its probably inconsequential you still have plenty of time to charge up some ****.

Ayaz, you mean stages to CP for or against marth? personally my favorite stage is BF with marth and delfino second favorite. BF is classically a very good marth stage except against MK. **** man i feel like im in chem class again, rule rules rules generalizations, and then the epic exception. awofiaegh

depending on the opponent, marth's good and bad stages change a bit. BF being the big one, hes great on it but MK can use the platforms just as well, he's pretty good on FD except against projectile spammers, smashville is pretty good since you can attack through the platform and getting a grab off on it can open up new comboes if its going the right way. marth doesn't do very well on RC because of his recovery, the slopes on yoshis island and corneria pose some problems. PK1 can be good.

though marth's best bet usually lies in BF and FD and varies with matchup.

 

[Rog~er]

Need Help!

ok, so i've been playing my friend's Ike since day one of Brawl's release and since then I've always won most of our matches until he figured out the most ridiculously annoying way of playing him. Now it's getting harder to win consistently when all he does is spotdodges all of my moves and then jabs the living **** out of me right after. of course he uses his other moves but when i play all out aggressive while out smarting him he slows down the pace of the game and starts his annoying playing style. any tips?

 

[Ayaz18]

huh, really?

Well I originally mained Falcon and used platforms really well. The usage of platforms has let my Marth (now 2 days old) progress rapidly over the short span of time using him.


I don't really like FD, i'm thinking delfino cause of infinites on walls

 

[Vitamin_x]

ok, so i've been playing my friend's Ike since day one of Brawl's release and since then I've always won most of our matches until he figured out the most ridiculously annoying way of playing him. Now it's getting harder to win consistently when all he does is spotdodges all of my moves and then jabs the living **** out of me right after. any tips?

uhh you could:
-Use dancing blade
-Bait the spot dodge
-Shield his jabs
-etc. etc. etc.

 

[C.box]

Now if we found a way to release grab into another grab guaranteed, THAT would be matchup changing.

About this, I heard mk can just BARELY get ouy before being regrabbed out of the grab release right? Anyways I was playing with falco one day screwing around with his Boosted pivot grab and junk and then i remembered that every character in the game has a dac but only a few have a usefull one but since every charatcer has a DAC then every character can boost pivot grab right? Basically if it does work with marth he would slide (no matter how small of a slide) and do a his normal standing grab will doing his little mini slide (I'm pretty sure marth's standing grab range is far superior to his running grab range) could it be posible to regrab mk? (Most likely not but this has been bugging me for a while now and yeah...) And if not marth also has an incredible pivot walk(really fast) this is also something that I wanna find out if after the grab release we could pivot walk to mk and regrab (or many do something else?), If not then oh well but... if anything like this works then.. it could do the match up good.

 

[GPEternity]

Rog: anticipate the spotdodge, attack him as he comes out of it. Use DB to pressure his timing, even if he spotdodges if he doesn't time it right or react afterwards the followups from your DB will still get him. also, i don't recall IKE's jab outranging marth's sword so it may just be your spacing. make sure you approach with the TIP if your sword. abuse the fact that you have faster attacks than him with spaced fairs and dtilts. something i like to do against my friend who plays ike is just land in front of him with an fair and then immediately DS him as he drops his shield. its fun. that aside once you get the chance, get him in the air and start juggling him.

C.Box marth has a pretty good pivot boost grab actually, i don't use it often since my anticipatory skills aren't very great but it's given me good results. i think the data is that MK has a tiny window to escape before any of marth's grab's actually grab and thats why the regrab is only situational.

 

[illinialex24]

ok, so i've been playing my friend's Ike since day one of Brawl's release and since then I've always won most of our matches until he figured out the most ridiculously annoying way of playing him. Now it's getting harder to win consistently when all he does is spotdodges all of my moves and then jabs the living **** out of me right after. of course he uses his other moves but when i play all out aggressive while out smarting him he slows down the pace of the game and starts his annoying playing style. any tips?

Anticipate it, D-tilt, DB ****.

 

[Rog~er]

uhh you could:
-Use dancing blade
-Bait the spot dodge
-Shield his jabs
-etc. etc. etc.

-he spotdodges the first hit of of DB and then interupts it with a jab.
-by baiting do you mean waiting for the spotdodge and grabbing him right after? I do that but I can never hit him with my sword because he just sheilds right after the spotdodge.
- I do sheild them. just can't after he spotdodges my move and jabs right out of it.

 

[Vitamin_x]

-he spotdodges the first hit of of DB and then interupts it with a jab.
-by baiting do you mean waiting for the spotdodge and grabbing him right after? I do that but I can never hit him with my sword because he just sheilds right after the spotdodge.
- I do sheild them. just can't after he spotdodges my move and jabs right out of it.

If you know he shields after spot dodging, you could use SB to take out a chunk of his shield or even stun him for a easy kill. You SHOULD be able to shield his jabs if you're not using laggy moves, I think. Also, dtilts works for this situation. Ike jab range ≠ dtilt, and dtilt can punish spot dodging and poke shields.

What move(s) exactly is/are he spot dodging?

Edit: I don't think I've ever been jabbed out of a good DB, are you sure you're doing it right?

 

[illinialex24]

If its ZSS you might be able to, I think out of the first hit there's a small layover. But past that you should be safe.

 

[Rog~er]

well I guess I'll have to upload a vid so you guys can see what I'm talking about. Ikes are getting harder to play against with this new style they're using.

 

[GPEternity]

there is lag time out of spotdodge, get your timing better. or just grab him out of it. if he can shield your grab, you've got other issues to think about.

spot dodging does not last as long as it looks like it does. remember that

 

[Rog~er]

there is lag time out of spotdodge, get your timing better. or just grab him out of it. if he can shield your grab, you've got other issues to think about.

spot dodging does not last as long as it looks like it does. remember that

he spotdodges the first hit of DB and then the second hit gets perfect sheilded since he hold his sheild button giving him the opportunity combo me with his jab to grab or just grab.

 

[KRiMz0N]

just charge a shieldbreaker when he spot dodges. if he shields it itll eat the shield.

on the other hand if he jabs you out of it then you just fail at timing

 

[Vitamin_x]

well I guess I'll have to upload a vid so you guys can see what I'm talking about. Ikes are getting harder to play against with this new style they're using.

With "new style" do you mean spot dodging and jabbing?
A problem for Marf dis ain't.


:gameboy:

 

[Rog~er]

for me it is. thanks for the advice though. I'll stick with dtilting. probably the best option. I'll be posting vids up in the critique section. make sure to check to see this new style I'm talking about. for now check Kirk's, Selicia's and Rykoshet's Ikes. they do it better than my friend does.

 

[Vitamin_x]

for me it is. thanks for the advice though. I'll stick with dtilting. probably the best option. I'll be posting vids up in the critique section. make sure to check to see this new style I'm talking about. for now check Kirk's, Selicia's and Rykoshet's Ikes. they do it better than my friend does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBcoT2SpJgY
You could also spot dodge the jab like NL does at about 1:40 of the video.

:/

 

[Rykoshet]

I just block dancing blade most of the time nowadays because pierce and NL just beat the **** out of me for trying to spot dodge it. When I fight spot dodge happy ikes as marth I just concentrate on the fact that ike is very very very very very harassable if you know his weaknesses and your opponent's tendencies. I can't count the number of dumb ikes I've caught with jab or the first hit of dancing blade, watch them spot dodge as I take a step back and just tipper them when they invariably jab afterwards. It's not super effective but *shrug* that's mindgames for you, they're only mindgames if they work.

 

[Rog~er]

sup Ryko. you can probably tell it's me Roger with a new account... again xP. anyway Cross is just a spotdodge happy fella. what should I do?

 

[Vitamin_x]

err... didn't he just tell you what to do?

 

[GPEternity]

everyone unanimously agrees that you should **** him with dtilt and db out of his spotdodge.

 

[Pandii]

Exactly how do you buffer a dash after grab releasing? Sometimes I just end up walking o.o;

Also, do you guys generally try to stop falco's illusion with some move or just shield and try to punish?

 

[Rykoshet]

Not even sure grab releases allow you to buffer actions. If you're at/near the ledge and successfully jab falco out of illusion it's pretty much a free stock, requires some good timing but the reward is well worth the risk.

 

[Kishin]

Reposting for more input:

Does anyone know the answer to these questions:

Does a non-charged shield breaker thrust you forward more than a fully-charged shield breaker on the ground? Make sure you are positive on your answer to this one.

Is Shield Breaker the most shield damaging move in the game? If not what is? If it is what is second?

During the animation where you fly up in the air when your shield is broken, I found it harder to tip them with an attack. Is this evidence that during this animation the size of a character changes in this animation? or is this my imagination or there is another explanation?

What is Marth's greatest weakness?

 

[The Marth]

Marth's greatest weakness is the inability to perform a falcon punch. That or his bad recovery. Shieldbreaker and DB helps but Marth can be gimped easily by a select few characters....

 

[illinialex24]

Marth's greatest weakness is metaknight...... Freakishly long sword really hurts Marth and it makes his more retreating aerials and ground approaches much less useful because a freak can attack through them.

 

[Vitamin_x]

Marth's greatest weakness is MK.

Edit: ****, you beat me to it.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Reposting for more input:

Does anyone know the answer to these questions:

Does a non-charged shield breaker thrust you forward more than a fully-charged shield breaker on the ground? Make sure you are positive on your answer to this one.

Is Shield Breaker the most shield damaging move in the game? If not what is? If it is what is second?

During the animation where you fly up in the air when your shield is broken, I found it harder to tip them with an attack. Is this evidence that during this animation the size of a character changes in this animation? or is this my imagination or there is another explanation?

What is Marth's greatest weakness?

1. No it doesn't.
2. Yes, I'm 90% sure SB is the most shield damaging (I mean it is called shieldbreaker right? 0.o lol)
3. No, your not even supposed to attack them when they fly up, its when they land it's easy to tip.
4. His bad horizontal recovery. Oh, and MK.

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

i thought Marth's greatest weakness was the fact that he has no safe kill moves
or DB in the air

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

I never have trouble killing people. You can usually get a Usmash in if you do it OoS, or you can get an fsmash in. If you space your kill moves right you shouldn't have problems. And DS OoS is amazing.

 

[Kishin]

Ok, thanks. Whether or not you should be attacking them when they're in the air or not after a shield break is besides the point.

Why does having a higher percentage reduce the shield breaker stun? Or is it just something stupid Sakurai put in the game for the lulz (tripping)?

Also: Careful

 

[GuyNamedSean]

I have 2 questions:

What's the best way to test out someone's skills with Marth?
What's the best way to train with Marth? (What kind of things should Marth players need to ge good at and how to best improve those skills)

 

[phi1ny3]

^
1.Friendlies/tournies (preferrably offline)
2.Friendlies/tournies (preferrably offline)
Also, Marth's greatest weakness is either MK or running out of blue hair dye.