Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[C.J.]

Moves only stale if you actually hit the opponent or an item, I don't think hitting shield refreshes your moves. As of with comboing Fair into Dtilt, it's not something I really recommend but it can sometimes work. It can work at lower percents if you hit the opponent with the Fair from close range. Comboing Fair into dash DB works in much more situations.

Anything with a hurtbox so no shield doesn't affect staleness but stage hazards (like CS statues) will. WRT fair->dtilt dtilt leads to DB so adding in the dtilt adds extra damage as well as getting more stage control. At higher percents, @ Curry, if only works if fair isn't tippered and has to be AC'd really well.

Everything smashkng said in the second paragraph was right- every single kind of fair has its own specific use. There is no such thing as a "bad" fair (other than one that gets you grabbed) it just depends on the situation. However he didn't mention one thing Curry said. You NEVER hold down when you're doing an aerial if you're rising. Only once you're at the apex of your jump will the game read a down input as a FF so holding down prior to that doesn't help you FF and just gives you bad DI.

And all of those things do belong in this thread since they are quick questions and quick answers. There aren't many things that don't qualify as quick questions anymore since most of the experienced people on the Marth boards have seen/been around for me, Pierce, and Shaya (a couple even going back to EL) to fully disseminate our knowledge. So, while the answers themselves may be wordy, the questions are still rather quick and don't require much thought and no testing. If you look back to when the metagame was first being developed, there were a lot of things that we didn't understand fully so those were turned into threads for solutions to be discussed.

Jackson, PSing is a 4 frame window where shielddrop lag is ignored. There's no way to really practice it other than practicing a lot and learning how different characters act in certain situations so that you can predict them easier, letting you PS more consistently.

 

[CURRY]

lolkay.
Why does landing prevent your opponent from getting shield advantage? Wouldn't you be the same distance away from opponent if you did rising or slow falled Fair? (And you can do another Fair in the same shorthop if it's a rising Fair so is it just that usually opponent will punish first Fair before second Fair comes out?)
What is WRT fair?
Thanks for answering all these questions ^^;;

 

[-LzR-]

Landing lag is less than the moves lag.

 

[Jackson]

Thanks for everybody's help, particularly Smashkng, C.J., and Shaya. You've all cleared up a lot of things!

 

[Taytertot]

I just played at a small tournament at Evergreen State College and my first match was vs a falco player. I havent had much experience in this matchup because I dont know any good falco players. needless to say the first round went very poorly for me. I couldn't find my way around his SHDL on battlefield because if I jumped over the lasers he'd run under me and utilt/rising bair/rising nair me and he got inside my sword range a lot which is probably my fault for not spacing correctly. The second round on yoshi's island was much more even but towards the end we were both at kill percent and he closed it out, which sent me into losers bracket. What should I be doing in the matchup and what do I need to watch out for?

 

[roymustang1990-]

Okay,question,what is the most efficiently known well to land a shield breaker on your opponent? Fully charged or not,?I know I landed a couple of them by baiting my oppenent to roll and or shield into it while they were trying to recover back on stage from the edge.

 

[C.J.]

lolkay.
Why does landing prevent your opponent from getting shield advantage? Wouldn't you be the same distance away from opponent if you did rising or slow falled Fair? (And you can do another Fair in the same shorthop if it's a rising Fair so is it just that usually opponent will punish first Fair before second Fair comes out?)
What is WRT fair?
Thanks for answering all these questions ^^;;

There are just too many possibilities of what could go wrong or right if you do/don't double fair. Other than pouring over frame data and applications of it, the best thing to do is just to play the game a lot and you'll understand why things don't work through experience.

WRT = with respect to; it's seen a lot in math proofs

Thanks for everybody's help, particularly Smashkng, C.J., and Shaya. You've all cleared up a lot of things!

Yup yup

Okay,question,what is the most efficiently known well to land a shield breaker on your opponent? Fully charged or not,?I know I landed a couple of them by baiting my oppenent to roll and or shield into it while they were trying to recover back on stage from the edge.

There is none really- it really depends on the specific opponent and how you condition them (and their reaction speed). Things that have worked frequently in the past:
SB from the ledge since they'll shield expecting an aerial
GR onto a platform (think MK on BF) -> SB since they might hold shield to protect themselves from an aerial
SH falling SB since they might be conditioned to think a fair is coming

 

[smashkng]

I just played at a small tournament at Evergreen State College and my first match was vs a falco player. I havent had much experience in this matchup because I dont know any good falco players. needless to say the first round went very poorly for me. I couldn't find my way around his SHDL on battlefield because if I jumped over the lasers he'd run under me and utilt/rising bair/rising nair me and he got inside my sword range a lot which is probably my fault for not spacing correctly. The second round on yoshi's island was much more even but towards the end we were both at kill percent and he closed it out, which sent me into losers bracket. What should I be doing in the matchup and what do I need to watch out for?

Play aggressive vs Falco. Camping against Falco is a very bad idea. Stay on the ground most of the time when he's in a position to camp. You want to get in and put him in positions where he's unable to camp. Once you hit him out of the ground you rack up damage very quickly against Falco. Walk (unlike during the first 17 frames of your dash, you can shield or do ANY other option anytime) and PS lasers until you're close enough to him and then usually Dash Attack or dash and Side b him under his lasers. Do it from positions where he can't react to that and thinks he's safe to throw out lasers when he isn't. Marth has an animation where he crouches when he runs, abuse that. Not sure if the lowest of lasers can still hit him, but even if they do it's pretty easy to react to him trying to throw out super low lasers. You can shield a laser from close range of course too but every option to punish Falco when he does a silent laser is just a guess. For example he can sidestep your shield grab attempts but if you don't go for it he can be punished for it (although Falco sidestep can SOMETIMES be annoyingly hard to punish). Keep in mind that if you see him attempting double lasers you can react to the first one and when he does SHDL after the first laser he has no other option but to throw out the 2nd laser. He can't AD, FF or throw out aerials. And if he goes for SH single laser then you can aerial approach him much easier, though he gains other options like instead of going for the laser, he can go for FF aerial or air dodge and can control his aerial movement more. If you get hit by a Dair at higher percents while grounded, DI back and do not instantly throw out an air dodge or aerial. If you do, then he can just Bair or Uair you for free. Instead wait and jump where he can't hit you. And of course, don't get grabbed at low %s cause while he can never KO you with the CG, it can lead to him putting a lot of damage on you.

Also try baiting out side b too in positions far enough where you can shield and DB it OoS or just hit him during the start-up (remember that during the first 1/3 of the side b distance he has no hurtbox so you can't hit him there). Back rolling to check out his side bs can be pretty good because if he's getting predictable with his side bs you can punish it by back roll and then side b him. Our back roll has a lot of invincibility frames (invincible between frames 4 and 23 out of the frame total of 35 frames) and is long. Both Marth and Falco can really force each other to guess what the other character will do once you both get close to each other. That's when huge momentum shifts can happen in this matchup from both Marth and Falco. If you feel too unsafe to read with his spot dodges and shielding after the lasers, use full hop retreating FAIR on him. It's the safest attacking option Marth has in that situation. Marth is actually really good against Falco at close range, especially just outside Falco's jab range (I think our side b outranges his jab). Sometimes even if you get hit by jab you can Up b between jabs (usually when he hits you where it "pops" you up). If you're too afraid of the Falco trying to bait the Up b out, just SDI back and away and use a landing spaced Fair, it's always safe on Falco's shield). And you can shield grab anything of the jab but the last multi-hit part (though you can still Up b it). So if you can react to shielding his jab, you can shield grab it for free (jab 2 into multi-hit jab is shield grabbable too). His spaced Ftilt can't be shield grabbed unless you PS it, but it being -17 on shield means you can always shield release and DB him OoS if you are able to react to it.

Juggle him and edge guard him, Marth is one of the best characters at edge guarding Falco. If you see him obviously side bing to the ledge, just edge hog him. But don't let him side b onstage for free. Sometimes you can chase Falco offstage for free and hit him during his side b start-up with Marth's Fair, which often leads to KOs especially at higher percents. Stay a bit away from the edge where you can have control of his side bs into the stage by trying jab or Dtilt out of his side b. If you jab Falco out of his side b, he'll always be forced into the RCO lag landing, giving you a free hit on him with pretty much anything you want but shield breaker if you're quick enough. Even back dash Usmash can hit Falco out of his side b. Just never forget the first 1/3 of his side b rule. Ledge trap Falco by staying a bit away from the ledge so that you can punish his ledge hop Phantasm if you shield or back roll, which is one of the most common ways for a Falco to get off the ledge. If you grab Falco at 0%, you can use 2 Fthrows into Dair spike and then you should be putting him in a position where you can gimp him really easily by edge hogging, side b 1 his Up b or stage spiking him with Up b (or hitting with the weak part of Up b, which makes him lose height and is untechable at such low %s). If too far from the edge, then you can do up to 3 Dthrows into tipper Fsmash after the 2 Fthrows for quick ~40% damage.

As of stages, BF is actually arguably Marth's best neutral stage against Falco. From my experience even with the side b into plataforms Falco gains overall I've felt like Marth benefits more from the stage than Falco does because Marth can cover Falco's options above Marth pretty well with the disjointed aerials hitting below the plataforms.

Overall, I'd say it's an even matchup. Prolly more in Marth's than Falco's favour but I'd say that it's too insignificant of an advantage. Falco wins the neutral game. But Marth makes up for it by being able to rack up damage very fast once he gets in, good edge guarding and being one of the better characters at approaching Falco actually, significantly better than say, Snake or ZSS (thanks to both his speed to rush in and options against Falco at close range). If you're playing the matchup correctly, he'll always eventually lose space to camp against you and he WILL be forced to guess to get back to neutral (Marth usually has to guess too, but that's why you should be paying attention to what the Falco does). Both Marth and Falco can juggle each other very well. While Marth edge guards Falco a lot better than viceversa, Falco can ledge trap Marth pretty well too, especially above 100%. You have to be smart when getting off the ledge. Getting hit by Falco's Fsmash while trying to ledge climb can really hurt. Also Falcos will always be looking for surprise BDACUSes at high %s. Always be aware and prepared for that move, which can be difficult to be 100% of the time. It's one of the more reliable ways for Falco to score KOs. If you get grabbed at high %s, DIing the Dthrow down and away and then do a well timed Air Dodge is probably the best option. At least when it comes to MK, Tyrant has been able to get away so far that DEHF has never able to hit him with a BDACUS afterwards, if MK can do it then Marth should be too. You can DI up too so that the BDACUS doesn't hit you, but when you DI up it's harder to avoid juggles too.

 

[Jackson]

Play aggressive vs Falco. Camping against Falco is a very bad idea. Stay on the ground most of the time when he's in a position to camp. You want to get in and put him in positions where he's unable to camp. Once you hit him out of the ground you rack up damage very quickly against Falco. Walk (unlike during the first 17 frames of your dash, you can shield or do ANY other option anytime) and PS lasers until you're close enough to him and then usually Dash Attack or dash and Side b him under his lasers. Do it from positions where he can't react to that and thinks he's safe to throw out lasers when he isn't. Marth has an animation where he crouches when he runs, abuse that. Not sure if the lowest of lasers can still hit him, but even if they do it's pretty easy to react to him trying to throw out super low lasers. You can shield a laser from close range of course too but every option to punish Falco when he does a silent laser is just a guess. For example he can sidestep your shield grab attempts but if you don't go for it he can be punished for it (although Falco sidestep can SOMETIMES be annoyingly hard to punish). Keep in mind that if you see him attempting double lasers you can react to the first one and when he does SHDL after the first laser he has no other option but to throw out the 2nd laser. He can't AD, FF or throw out aerials. And if he goes for SH single laser then you can aerial approach him much easier, though he gains other options like instead of going for the laser, he can go for FF aerial or air dodge and can control his aerial movement more. If you get hit by a Dair at higher percents while grounded, DI back and do not instantly throw out an air dodge or aerial. If you do, then he can just Bair or Uair you for free. Instead wait and jump where he can't hit you. And of course, don't get grabbed at low %s cause while he can never KO you with the CG, it can lead to him putting a lot of damage on you.

Also try baiting out side b too in positions far enough where you can shield and DB it OoS or just hit him during the start-up (remember that during the first 1/3 of the side b distance he has no hurtbox so you can't hit him there). Back rolling to check out his side bs can be pretty good because if he's getting predictable with his side bs you can punish it by back roll and then side b him. Our back roll has a lot of invincibility frames (invincible between frames 4 and 23 out of the frame total of 35 frames) and is long. Both Marth and Falco can really force each other to guess what the other character will do once you both get close to each other. That's when huge momentum shifts can happen in this matchup from both Marth and Falco. If you feel too unsafe to read with his spot dodges and shielding after the lasers, use full hop retreating FAIR on him. It's the safest attacking option Marth has in that situation. Marth is actually really good against Falco at close range, especially just outside Falco's jab range (I think our side b outranges his jab). Sometimes even if you get hit by jab you can Up b between jabs (usually when he hits you where it "pops" you up). If you're too afraid of the Falco trying to bait the Up b out, just SDI back and away and use a landing spaced Fair, it's always safe on Falco's shield). And you can shield grab anything of the jab but the last multi-hit part (though you can still Up b it). So if you can react to shielding his jab, you can shield grab it for free (jab 2 into multi-hit jab is shield grabbable too). His spaced Ftilt can't be shield grabbed unless you PS it, but it being -17 on shield means you can always shield release and DB him OoS if you are able to react to it.

Juggle him and edge guard him, Marth is one of the best characters at edge guarding Falco. If you see him obviously side bing to the ledge, just edge hog him. But don't let him side b onstage for free. Sometimes you can chase Falco offstage for free and hit him during his side b start-up with Marth's Fair, which often leads to KOs especially at higher percents. Stay a bit away from the edge where you can have control of his side bs into the stage by trying jab or Dtilt out of his side b. If you jab Falco out of his side b, he'll always be forced into the RCO lag landing, giving you a free hit on him with pretty much anything you want but shield breaker if you're quick enough. Even back dash Usmash can hit Falco out of his side b. Just never forget the first 1/3 of his side b rule. Ledge trap Falco by staying a bit away from the ledge so that you can punish his ledge hop Phantasm if you shield or back roll, which is one of the most common ways for a Falco to get off the ledge. If you grab Falco at 0%, you can use 2 Fthrows into Dair spike and then you should be putting him in a position where you can gimp him really easily by edge hogging, side b 1 his Up b or stage spiking him with Up b (or hitting with the weak part of Up b, which makes him lose height and is untechable at such low %s). If too far from the edge, then you can do up to 3 Dthrows into tipper Fsmash after the 2 Fthrows for quick ~40% damage.

As of stages, BF is actually arguably Marth's best neutral stage against Falco. From my experience even with the side b into plataforms Falco gains overall I've felt like Marth benefits more from the stage than Falco does because Marth can cover Falco's options above Marth pretty well with the disjointed aerials hitting below the plataforms.

Overall, I'd say it's an even matchup. Prolly more in Marth's than Falco's favour but I'd say that it's too insignificant of an advantage. Falco wins the neutral game. But Marth makes up for it by being able to rack up damage very fast once he gets in, good edge guarding and being one of the better characters at approaching Falco actually, significantly better than say, Snake or ZSS (thanks to both his speed to rush in and options against Falco at close range). If you're playing the matchup correctly, he'll always eventually lose space to camp against you and he WILL be forced to guess to get back to neutral (Marth usually has to guess too, but that's why you should be paying attention to what the Falco does). Both Marth and Falco can juggle each other very well. While Marth edge guards Falco a lot better than viceversa, Falco can ledge trap Marth pretty well too, especially above 100%. You have to be smart when getting off the ledge. Getting hit by Falco's Fsmash while trying to ledge climb can really hurt. Also Falcos will always be looking for surprise BDACUSes at high %s. Always be aware and prepared for that move, which can be difficult to be 100% of the time. It's one of the more reliable ways for Falco to score KOs. If you get grabbed at high %s, DIing the Dthrow down and away and then do a well timed Air Dodge is probably the best option. At least when it comes to MK, Tyrant has been able to get away so far that DEHF has never able to hit him with a BDACUS afterwards, if MK can do it then Marth should be too. You can DI up too so that the BDACUS doesn't hit you, but when you DI up it's harder to avoid juggles too.

Good stuff. Summarized the matchup very well.

 

[Jackson]

This is kind of a strange question to ask, but do you guys know of any mindgames that I can use on people? This part of my game needs work. I know that mindgames are often tailored to a certain game because of somebody's habits, but do you know any general baiting or something that I could do to mess with opponents?

 

[-LzR-]

A simple but one of the most important mindgames:
Fair at the opponent as usual. You'll notice the opponent starts to expect it. Then when you jump, instead of fair, fastfall and grab them. It cannot be reacted to. One of Marths most basic and important mixup.

 

[Jackson]

A simple but one of the most important mindgames:
Fair at the opponent as usual. You'll notice the opponent starts to expect it. Then when you jump, instead of fair, fastfall and grab them. It cannot be reacted to. One of Marths most basic and important mixup.

Ah... Cool! Thanks. I'll definetely work that into my game.

 

[Taytertot]

Play aggressive vs Falco. Camping against Falco is a very bad idea. Stay on the ground most of the time when he's in a position to camp. You want to get in and put him in positions where he's unable to camp. Once you hit him out of the ground you rack up damage very quickly against Falco. Walk (unlike during the first 17 frames of your dash, you can shield or do ANY other option anytime) and PS lasers until you're close enough to him and then usually Dash Attack or dash and Side b him under his lasers. Do it from positions where he can't react to that and thinks he's safe to throw out lasers when he isn't. Marth has an animation where he crouches when he runs, abuse that. Not sure if the lowest of lasers can still hit him, but even if they do it's pretty easy to react to him trying to throw out super low lasers. You can shield a laser from close range of course too but every option to punish Falco when he does a silent laser is just a guess. For example he can sidestep your shield grab attempts but if you don't go for it he can be punished for it (although Falco sidestep can SOMETIMES be annoyingly hard to punish). Keep in mind that if you see him attempting double lasers you can react to the first one and when he does SHDL after the first laser he has no other option but to throw out the 2nd laser. He can't AD, FF or throw out aerials. And if he goes for SH single laser then you can aerial approach him much easier, though he gains other options like instead of going for the laser, he can go for FF aerial or air dodge and can control his aerial movement more. If you get hit by a Dair at higher percents while grounded, DI back and do not instantly throw out an air dodge or aerial. If you do, then he can just Bair or Uair you for free. Instead wait and jump where he can't hit you. And of course, don't get grabbed at low %s cause while he can never KO you with the CG, it can lead to him putting a lot of damage on you.

Also try baiting out side b too in positions far enough where you can shield and DB it OoS or just hit him during the start-up (remember that during the first 1/3 of the side b distance he has no hurtbox so you can't hit him there). Back rolling to check out his side bs can be pretty good because if he's getting predictable with his side bs you can punish it by back roll and then side b him. Our back roll has a lot of invincibility frames (invincible between frames 4 and 23 out of the frame total of 35 frames) and is long. Both Marth and Falco can really force each other to guess what the other character will do once you both get close to each other. That's when huge momentum shifts can happen in this matchup from both Marth and Falco. If you feel too unsafe to read with his spot dodges and shielding after the lasers, use full hop retreating FAIR on him. It's the safest attacking option Marth has in that situation. Marth is actually really good against Falco at close range, especially just outside Falco's jab range (I think our side b outranges his jab). Sometimes even if you get hit by jab you can Up b between jabs (usually when he hits you where it "pops" you up). If you're too afraid of the Falco trying to bait the Up b out, just SDI back and away and use a landing spaced Fair, it's always safe on Falco's shield). And you can shield grab anything of the jab but the last multi-hit part (though you can still Up b it). So if you can react to shielding his jab, you can shield grab it for free (jab 2 into multi-hit jab is shield grabbable too). His spaced Ftilt can't be shield grabbed unless you PS it, but it being -17 on shield means you can always shield release and DB him OoS if you are able to react to it.

Juggle him and edge guard him, Marth is one of the best characters at edge guarding Falco. If you see him obviously side bing to the ledge, just edge hog him. But don't let him side b onstage for free. Sometimes you can chase Falco offstage for free and hit him during his side b start-up with Marth's Fair, which often leads to KOs especially at higher percents. Stay a bit away from the edge where you can have control of his side bs into the stage by trying jab or Dtilt out of his side b. If you jab Falco out of his side b, he'll always be forced into the RCO lag landing, giving you a free hit on him with pretty much anything you want but shield breaker if you're quick enough. Even back dash Usmash can hit Falco out of his side b. Just never forget the first 1/3 of his side b rule. Ledge trap Falco by staying a bit away from the ledge so that you can punish his ledge hop Phantasm if you shield or back roll, which is one of the most common ways for a Falco to get off the ledge. If you grab Falco at 0%, you can use 2 Fthrows into Dair spike and then you should be putting him in a position where you can gimp him really easily by edge hogging, side b 1 his Up b or stage spiking him with Up b (or hitting with the weak part of Up b, which makes him lose height and is untechable at such low %s). If too far from the edge, then you can do up to 3 Dthrows into tipper Fsmash after the 2 Fthrows for quick ~40% damage.

As of stages, BF is actually arguably Marth's best neutral stage against Falco. From my experience even with the side b into plataforms Falco gains overall I've felt like Marth benefits more from the stage than Falco does because Marth can cover Falco's options above Marth pretty well with the disjointed aerials hitting below the plataforms.

Overall, I'd say it's an even matchup. Prolly more in Marth's than Falco's favour but I'd say that it's too insignificant of an advantage. Falco wins the neutral game. But Marth makes up for it by being able to rack up damage very fast once he gets in, good edge guarding and being one of the better characters at approaching Falco actually, significantly better than say, Snake or ZSS (thanks to both his speed to rush in and options against Falco at close range). If you're playing the matchup correctly, he'll always eventually lose space to camp against you and he WILL be forced to guess to get back to neutral (Marth usually has to guess too, but that's why you should be paying attention to what the Falco does). Both Marth and Falco can juggle each other very well. While Marth edge guards Falco a lot better than viceversa, Falco can ledge trap Marth pretty well too, especially above 100%. You have to be smart when getting off the ledge. Getting hit by Falco's Fsmash while trying to ledge climb can really hurt. Also Falcos will always be looking for surprise BDACUSes at high %s. Always be aware and prepared for that move, which can be difficult to be 100% of the time. It's one of the more reliable ways for Falco to score KOs. If you get grabbed at high %s, DIing the Dthrow down and away and then do a well timed Air Dodge is probably the best option. At least when it comes to MK, Tyrant has been able to get away so far that DEHF has never able to hit him with a BDACUS afterwards, if MK can do it then Marth should be too. You can DI up too so that the BDACUS doesn't hit you, but when you DI up it's harder to avoid juggles too.

Wow thanks man that helps a bunch I'll start practicing!

 

[Jackson]

So... you can quickly turn around dtilt from one side to another right? I've done it before but I'm not sure how exactly. How do you turn it around as soon as you do one? For instance, Dtilt to the right, they roll behind me, quickly dtilit left.

 

[smashkng]

To buffer turn-around Dtilt, it's just soft tilt back and soft tilt down I think. Usually it's a bad decision of the opponent to cross up roll a Dtilt, but I just do turn-around DB cause it's simple, a very fast option and is a good punishing move. Still, never have thought about punishing a Dtilt which was dodged that way with turn-around Dtilt.

 

[Shaya]

The easy way to do turn around dtilts is to have your control stick tilted downwards + left or right and then c stick down.

 

[CURRY]

can someone use multiple moves in a row a number of times before it stales? (It seems that you can hit someone twice or three times with the same move without it staling at all...)
So yeah, I've been lurking in Training Mode until now. So there was no staling for me. >.>
Can do specials stale at ALL? (MK Nado spammers... sigh)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Let me help you.

Training mode has no move decay, this is why you're observing no staling on moves~

Almost every move in this game will stale (except for a few weird ones like windboxes and Zero Suit Samus's neutral aerial)

 

[CURRY]

:D:D
So specials can stale?
:D:D:D:D:D Awesome.

I think Tethers don't stale.
And lol ZSuit's NAir...
can it help her refresh her counter though?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

What do you mean tethers don't stale? Tethers are grabs, the throws can stale and so can the pummel but the grab itself can't.

Zero Suit's nair won't refresh anything since it doesn't go into the queue. For all intents and purposes the game treats the move like it doesn't exist because of some weird mechanic regarding articles.

 

[Yuta]

Is it recommended that I shield with L or R on the GameCube controller? And should I A-stick ( using tilts with c-stick ) or smashes for c-stick?

Should I use the claw grip?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

^ personal preference. I use R personally because right hand master race

Also c-sticking is considerably better than a-sticking (or t-sticking as I've always known it) or b-sticking for Marth.

 

[Zano]

no one can tell you what controls are best, just what works fo ryou

 

[Jackson]

Thanks Smashkng. Your right, pivot DB is likely the better option, didn't think of it. I guess it's always good to mix it up though.

 

[Yuta]

Why is c- sticking better?

 

[Shaya]

You can get the same effect of t-sticking just by lightly tilting the control stick in the way you want to tilt at the same direction as you c-stick.
Doing smash attacks is otherwise awkward without a c-stick. You may end up charging it or dashing or jumping.

Although not really apparent for Marth, but C-stick inputs are helpful for advanced techniques on a lot of characters.

 

[CURRY]

Soooo. How does the thing with going against AIs like lvl 3 MK and lvl 7 Snake work? How am I supposed to fight them? I feel like my reaction time has become slower than before, when I just kept on 1v1-ing lvl 9s.
Something about reading your opponent and punishing? You can't bait a CPU to do something, so that's not helping with anything...
Also, bad WiFi. Not an option. And my friends meet to play brawl once in a blue moon.
And like, when you plug in a controller to be idle for a 99 stock match (so it's like Training... but there's staling and there's no AI to recover your opponent for you if you hit it offstage) I would assume that Samus would be the best for this? I tried idle Snake, and he seems really boring as an idle character, since once you knock him off the stage in any way at all, he just plummets down. Samus, on the other hand, you can hit her off-stage... and pretend to gimp her.

Random question: Wouldn't tap jump be... beneficial? I've seen people use the normal p1, p2, p3, p4 at those pro tourneys... and since if you accidentally do a tap instead of a tilt on an up tilt, then you would do an usmash anyway. and I would think that this would help with using the OoS Dolphin Slash too.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Tap-jump on or off is preference. I have it off personally as my characters have good up tilts.

 

[Yuta]

Should I use the claw grip when I play marth? I'm not sure ...

 

[Zano]

do whatever works best, **** like how you hold your controller or what your button layout is ENTIRELY up to you. No one can tell you how you play best but yourself.

 

[CURRY]

Claw...
Well, if you're willing to spend like around a week to a month playing a lot more horrible than normal because changing layouts/controllers is just that traumatic, then yeah.
It's hard. T-T
Just see what's easier in the long run.
Around the bottom of page 263 in this thread, we discussed claw. And things. I don't feel like copy/pasting anything... mostly for not giving you a huge wall of text. So... you can look there if you want.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Soooo. How does the thing with going against AIs like lvl 3 MK and lvl 7 Snake work? How am I supposed to fight them? I feel like my reaction time has become slower than before, when I just kept on 1v1-ing lvl 9s.
Something about reading your opponent and punishing? You can't bait a CPU to do something, so that's not helping with anything...
Also, bad WiFi. Not an option. And my friends meet to play brawl once in a blue moon.
And like, when you plug in a controller to be idle for a 99 stock match (so it's like Training... but there's staling and there's no AI to recover your opponent for you if you hit it offstage) I would assume that Samus would be the best for this? I tried idle Snake, and he seems really boring as an idle character, since once you knock him off the stage in any way at all, he just plummets down. Samus, on the other hand, you can hit her off-stage... and pretend to gimp her.

Random question: Wouldn't tap jump be... beneficial? I've seen people use the normal p1, p2, p3, p4 at those pro tourneys... and since if you accidentally do a tap instead of a tilt on an up tilt, then you would do an usmash anyway. and I would think that this would help with using the OoS Dolphin Slash too.

Levels 3-7 are good to practice your strings against, instead of Levels 8-9 air dodging after every hit (No human really does this).
It's also possible to bait a Cpu, you just have to know what they get baited with (mostly empty hops, fox trot away). They DO have exploitable habits, but you're not supposed to really exploit them.

Against Level 9s, you can use their air dodge habit to get used to hitting the end lag of air dodges.

For the Level 99 match, just have it as a Level 3 cpu or w/e makes it easier so they can recover and stuff.

Tap Jump on/ off comes to personal preference, I keep it on (that's what I'm used to) and you can Up B Oos fine without it.

Should I use the claw grip when I play marth? I'm not sure ...

Whatever you find works best for you!
(Leon doesn't claw, and has no custom controls.. just a tip and he lives in Canada now)

 

[CURRY]

Levels 3-7 are good to practice your strings against, instead of Levels 8-9 air dodging after every hit (No human really does this).
It's also possible to bait a Cpu, you just have to know what they get baited with (mostly empty hops, fox trot away). They DO have exploitable habits, but you're not supposed to really exploit them.

Against Level 9s, you can use their air dodge habit to get used to hitting the end lag of air dodges.

For the Level 99 match, just have it as a Level 3 cpu or w/e makes it easier so they can recover and stuff.

Tap Jump on/ off comes to personal preference, I keep it on (that's what I'm used to) and you can Up B Oos fine without it.












Whatever you find works best for you!
(Leon doesn't claw, and has no custom controls.. just a tip and he lives in Canada now)

O.O
PUNISHING THE ENDING LAG OF AIR DODGES. OH MY GAH.
I've always wondered how people do that. Now I can practice... :D

 

[Shaya]

Most Marth players don't have custom controls.

 

[CURRY]

Most Marth players don't have custom controls.

WOT. That's..
that's cray.
=.=
Well. I suppose it is really convenient not needing to change your name in the list of like, a thousand different names.
Is the not needing custom controls just because you're too lazy to change button layouts, or because you don't feel like going through the process of making a name and setting controls, etc?
I guess I could try using non-custom controls again. Avoiding an accidental tap jump is MUCH easier on the GC than the Wiimote; the Wiimote nunchuk often are IMPOSSIBLE to do tilts on. And adding to that, many have varying levels of sensitivity. And smoothness. Oh gawd. Holy crud. I don't know Claw with X and Y as jump D: like... does your finger hurt after a while? And short hop Nairing seems hard in that position. >.>

 

[Shaya]

It's not about convenience (although it always is a convenience). It's just we don't need them.
And this is relating to gamecube controllers though. I think everyone on anything else always has customs.

I feel it's a bit of Melee and the whole proliferation of Up-B out of shield being easier with tap jump on that cemented it.

 

[Taytertot]

To make Up-Bing out of shield easier you could change one of the triggers to jump if you want to keep tap jump off though. that way you can use your index finger to jump and then Up-B the way you normally would.

 

[Shaya]

There's tons of solutions, sure.

Just take it as it is. Anyone who's ever won a tournament with Marth doesn't use custom controllers (Raziek maybe?)

 

[C.J.]

I think Ramin used custom controls for a little bit, not 100% sure though.

 

[Jackson]

I think Ramin used custom controls for a little bit, not 100% sure though.

Ramin is Mr R., right?