Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[C.J.]

You jump too high to do anything to them other than buffer dair.

Otherwise jab locking would be all over the place.

 

[Masonomace]

right on one last question for now:

Would Footstool > Dolphin Slash work? On a few characters or maybe only taller characters? (Rob ganon bowser etc.)
only way I'd think it would work is because footstool animates you pushing down on their heads low enough for Dolphin Slash's hitbox to connect

 

[C.J.]

yes it works

 

[Marthcrazy101]

Does marth have any spikes besides his dair?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Nope .

 

[1PokeMastr]

Nope .

Dumb dumb.

DB3Down is a spike.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Oh I thought that was only in Melee, searched it up, and I was proven wrong. Sorry.

 

[Pheta Ray]

What's the best controller mapping for Marth?

 

[C.J.]

Whatever allows you to have complete control over the character that is easiest for you. Generally, you want either tap jump on or a trigger button mapped to jump for easy upBs OoS.

It comes down to just whatever you're comfortable with as long as Marth does what you want, when you want him to do it, every time.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Plug and play, that's how I roll.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

What is the most efficient way of setting up an opponent for a spike?

I know that footstooling makes it easier to land, but whenever I perform the footstool I can't get close enough to DAir at the tip. Fastfalling doesn't make anything better. Otherwise, I can just DAir at the end of most stages and it will happen, but that's not reliable.

 

[ぱみゅ]

The most efficient way of set up an opponent for a spike?
Combo off of it with Fthrow>Dair (character dependant, all at less than 5% iiirc).

But seriously, don't attempt to spike unless you are completely, absolutely, 278% sure it will hit.
Marth gets way much more reward from standing on the stage and having the opponent trying to regain ground.

 

[Shaya]

1. People who are poor at using ledge invincibility. Grab release to spike on MK-esque motion at the ledge aiming for the fh dair above the ledge. Works against bad MKs according to Mike until they LEARN.
2. Footstools.
3. Facing the right direction / getting the right position. If someone is DIRECTLY below Marth, but not too close to get hit by the first frame of the hitbox (frame 6), it's basically guaranteed to spike on frame 7 (his hitboxes on f7 are completely overlapped by a spike only hitbox for just that 1 frame)
4. Knowing where they're going to jump (hard read / most average player's mediocre habits)

 

[vato_break]

It's a fact that spiking on the right side of the stage has a higher percentage rate of success, in my opinion.

 

[C.J.]

Shut up Shaya

You run and YOLO Ken combo only on the right hand side of the stage like Vato said.

 

[| Big D |]

So what's the deal with shield breaker.

The more you charge it = more shield damage or is it based of something else?

 

[Shaya]

Technically the more it's charged the more shield damage it'll do because shield damage scales off of the percent damage of the attack.

The "bonus" it gets doesn't change no matter how much it's charged.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I remember I read somewhere that no matter the charge it will do 80% Shield Damage.

 

[| Big D |]

Alright cool, thanks for the quick answers

 

[roymustang1990-]

Here 's a question that sounds like more of a request

Would anyone mind play against my marth and rating it accordingly?

 

[Shaya]

We're not really a wifi community here.

As you're in Cali though you'd probably be able to find people who'd play with you in person/wifi through those means.

 

[Zano]

besides, you're not gonna get an accurate rating playing on wifi, especially as marf

 

[Tselel (5805)]

Is there a thread somewhere that has rough kill percents for Marth's different moves? I've heard a lot of his major kill moves hover around 120%, but with a well-placed tipper in a small stage, I've seen them go as low as 40%.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Probably would be bad di, or a full charged tipper to kill at 40%, plus a light character.

Non tippers.. anything around 130 is a good guess for middle weights.
Then just assume for light weights/ etc.

 

[ぱみゅ]

It is not rare to find heavyweights (or sneaky characters like Wario) living up to 200%.

 

[Zano]

what wario are you letting live to 200% as marth

 

[ぱみゅ]

One that doesn't try o outpoke you, doesn't let himself get grabbed, and keeps moving back and forth so I can't space well.
That kind of Warios are real pains.

 

[Jackson]

Hey guys! Many of you seem to be experienced, so I'm looking for some help. I love playing Brawl, and I main Marth. I can play at a semi-competitive level, but I am unsure as to how to get better. Any tips on raising my game, Marth advice, or advanced techniques in general? Thanks for any help! - Jackson

Oh, and 2 more questions: how can I tip better, and what stages would you reccomend I play on as Marth?

 

[Jackson]

Hey guys, I'm Jackson, and aspiring Marth player who's new to Smashboards. I'm really enjoying the site and there's a lot of helpful people. But enough with the introductions! I was looking for some advice. I really want to perfect my D-Air spike as Marth, partly to nab early kills and partly to look skilled, haha. I'm alright at it, but I often seem to choke in the heat of battle. Does anybody have any useful tips on how to land this attack consistently? Should i even go for it at all, instead opting to edge guard with something like a Fair? Any opinions would be appreciated. The only thing I am sure of right now is that you should spike on the second jump, so you don't fast fall and fall to your doom.

 

[Jackson]

Hey guys, I'm Jackson, and I'm new to smashboards and a marth player in Brawl. I've made another thread about Marth as well, hopefully that doesn't bother anyone or anything, I'm just looking for advice. I main Marth and dedicate all my Smash time to him, so I'm kind of reluctant to pick a secondary. However, I know it is important. So, experienced Marths, I ask you, what is a good secondary to use as a marth player, especially to cover harder matchups such as King DeDeDe?

 

[smashkng]

Marth's about zoning, juggles, offensive pressure and reads. And although Marth doesn't have many ATs compared to characters like Snake, he's still a surprisingly technical character. Within some of his moves (like Up b, side b and Fair) there are some small tricks you can do that can make a huge difference. Learn b-reversal side bs (both turn arounds and simple momentum shifting while still facing forward, the latter you can do by first holding forward and then VERY quickly back-forward in the air, the momentum shift is pretty small but side b 1 is a move that has little lag. You can momentum shift with shield breaker too which is a greater momentum shift but it's not really recommended for escaping from juggles because it has a lot of lag). Learn different angles of Dolphin Slash. You can actually angle it between straight up (which is very hard to learn) and angling it forward a lot (and slight forward angling). With different angles you can land onstage to surprise someone edge hogging you in a position you can't stall out their ledge invincibility, and angling it forward can allow you to hit them before they can edge hog you at times. Angling it less forward can mitigate the occasional problems of the FD ledge. An interesting thing to know is also that the more forward you angle it, the less height it gives you, even if the difference is pretty small, it can make a difference. Like if you angle it forward too much, it could make an edge hog KO you when had you angled it slightly less forward you would have landed onstage. Max angling Dolphin Slash forward also makes Marth not land on the center plataform IIRC. Angling Up b forward by the maximum amount gives it extra horizontal range (pretty long range, at the very least as long as DDD's grab range making it a pretty damn good OoS, out of shield, option). Only use it when you know it will hit though. It hits on frame 5 and is invincible between frame 1 and 5, but then if you miss the opponent can punish you with almost anything they want, and it's actually unsafe on hit until at least around 20% (and the weak hit is unsafe on hit until pretty high percents).That frame 1 invincibility pretty much means that if the opponent misses anything by a frame, you can Up b out of their attempts to hit you. Example: if DDD messes up his CG, you can Up b, which will always outprioritise his grab thanks to DS's invincibility frames.

Always be smart when the opponent is above you, it's a position Marth struggles against. Try to get diagonally above them instead of directly above them in such positions. Makes it easier for Marth to defend with moves like his Fair. His Dair being bad for defending against jugggles is what makes him vulnerable when directly above someone. But smart fast falls air dodge or aerials like Fair mix ups can help you catch the opponent by surprise when you're trying to land. Trick mix ups like b reversal side bs can help you at times too. When recovering, always be aware of when you have RCO lag and when you don't have it. If you don't have to Up b, then usually don't do it, especially if you're above 100% (Marth has very limited options for climbing back to the stage when above it). When below 100%, buffered ledge jump gives you +10 invincibility (meaning you can ledge jump invincible aerials, Fair usually being the preferred one because it can hit opponents on the ground, you can even do things like invincible DB1 and fully invincible air dodge, although I wouldn't recommend doing the air dodge that often). The aerial after the ledge jump is unbufferable though (ANY option you do out of ledge jump is unbufferable, just keep that in mind). When above 100% Marth can no longer do invincible aerials from ledge jump, limiting his get up options greatly when combined with a much worse ledge climb and ledge roll (when below 100%, he has, the best ledge climb in the game, it's invincible for frames 1-30 and ends on frame 32, compared to most the rest of the cast's 1-30/34). So when on the edge, be patient, by picking smart options and/or waiting for the opponent to commit there is always a way of getting off the ledge.

When YOUR opponent is above you, you should be putting a lot of damage on them. Well spaced and positioned aerials can frame trap an opponent above you pretty easily. Like for example, in certain positions a full hop Uair frame traps into moves like Fair if they try to air dodge it and if they try to attack you then Uair will almost certainly beat it if you're spacing it correctly thanks to its range and disjoint. If you're doing everything correctly then you should be covering at least 2/3 of their options or more when they're above you. King Dedede is pretty different when it comes to how you should juggle him. Instead of jumping and catching him in the air, you should be staying on the ground and wait for him to land and punish his landing with something like grab or shield and DB punish any aerial he attempts to do, yes even Bair is actually a very punishable move, if you PS his aerials, then even easier to punish. Chasing him risks him being able to fast fall air dodge and then punish your own attempt to punish him, while staying on the ground makes it very difficult for him to land because he has really terrible horizontal aerial mobility.

About stages, Marth in general doesn't mind any stages too much except stages like Halberd and, against Meta Knight, Frigate Orpheon and Delfino. Halberd is probably still the best stage to ban against Meta Knight though. Marth really hates the opponents being able to shark him from the big plataforms on Halberd and Delfino. Frigate can be hard at first to play on but he has advantages there too, like the 2nd part being really amazing for juggling the opponent. If you jump around half the stage's height while the stage is transforming, it should never kill you. The lack of ledge on the right part can give him some trouble recovering, but Marth himself can also take advantage of that pretty well, especially against any character not named Meta Knight, because he himself has pretty good edge guarding options.

When it comes to neutrals, in general it depends on both preference and MUs. Against a character like Snake, for example, it depends on what you prefer to abuse on Snake. I personally like FD the most against him because he can't place C4s on plataforms for stage control and the lack of plataforms also makes him easier to juggle, at least for me. Against characters like Olimar, MK and Snake FD a pretty good option. Against characters like Ice Climbers and Falco, BF is arguably the best stage. BF is good for plataform pressure, better juggling at times and safer Up b spam (thanks to the plataforms especially the center one). Plus the ledge should never be an issue there. But things like opponents camping under the plataforms (like Olimar) and giving them more options to escape from juggles can work against Marth too. The plataforms could also possibly make it harder for Marth himself to escape from juggles, especially against characters like Meta Knight. If any neutral stage is worst for Marth, then it probably is YI because it makes it even easier for the opponent to plataform camp than on BF. This can be a problem against ROB for example. SV is a good stage against every character IMO, so if unsure what stage to pick, then just go SV LOL. And of course, master plataform cancelling on SV.

I can also tell you to remember combos. At low percents, Dtilt combos into DB. It can probably combo into itself if it's poorly spaced and dash grab after Dtilt can be a decent mix up from time to time too. Fair usually strings into itself. Uair right before landing on the ground true combos into moves like Usmash and Nair, which can deal some nice early damage. At 0%, Fthrow true combos into tipper Fsmash on almost the entire cast (You have to shutter step, that being the slight step forward you do if you smash the control stick right before smash your C stick forward; against some like Snake and another Marth though. Against characters like DK retreat shutter step if you want to tipper it). Then against some you some have other options from Fthrow too. Against MK, any aerial and Hyphen Smash is true from Fsmash on him. Against Fox and Falco you can do 2 Fthrows into Dair spike for a 0-death combo. They can only escape from it by Smash DIing correctly if you grab them close enough from the ledge. You can also do 3 Dthrows into tipper Fsmash on Falco after the 2 Fhrows and 5 Dthrows to tipper Fsmash against Fox. Against Pikachu, you can do at least 2 Fthrows and then Dthrow and tipper Fsmash. All of this can allow you to score some nice early 35%+ damage. At high percents, if you somehow land only the first Nair, then you can combo into Utilt for KOs. It's hard to land that though because of small vertical hitbox and Nair 1 only lasts for 2 frames.


In order to space like a god, I can give you some advices. Memorise Marth's hitbox sizes and get a feeling of how long each of Marth's moves take in order for his hitboxes to come out. Make use of double jumps for spacing in the air from time to time (without double jumping, turning around in the air has some start-up, double jumping allows you to change momentum instantly which is really useful). And be good at fast falling aerials correctly too when you want to do a fast fall aerial. Rest is just PRACTICE, PRACTICE AND MORE PRACTICE. Really spacing is a lot about how well you can time moves. Once your spacing is on point, you can make great mix ups by mixing between early and late Fairs and possibly even Fair cross up your opponent. Learning how to space dash to shields is really important too. For the first 17 frames, you can't shield (but you can jump, DB or anything you can do out of a jump, like retreating Fairs and Up bs) which is a certain distance. Don't forget to keep hold forward by frame 17 because then it takes more frames to shield (which is a weird mechanic but important to be aware of). When you dash to shield, you slide a bit when shielding, which at the same time means that it reduces shield push by moves in the case you fail to PS (power shield) them, making it easier to punish things they hit your shield with. Because only grab beats dash to shield, it's a relatively reliable approach option. If you dash dance backwards then forwards, and you release forward, you can shorten your dash. You have to hold forward again by frame 17 if you want to shield that early though. Be aware of your shield health when you approach with it though, Marth with a small shield is very easy to shield poke. If the opponent has projectiles (like Falco), walking is more recommended most of the time. When you walk, you can shield anytime and all options are available. If you want to maximise walking speed, first tilt your control stick slightly and then tilt your control stick to the max, otherwise Marth will be walking slower than you want him to. A good strategy against projectiles is walking (Marth has arguably the best walking in the game), PSing the first projectile, then if you're close enough, dash and DB for example (against Falco, dash attack can work too because Marth can then hit Falco while ducking under lasers).

Overall, there are more things with Marth I can say but that's what I will say for now. But the first thing I recommend you to start with is learning to space correctly because of how important it is to space with Marth. Many of Marth's problems (like his moves being weak when not tippered and his moves having low hitbox duration) can be greatly mitigated by great spacing. It also makes Marth's moves from being relatively easy to punish to pretty much unpunishable (talking about moves like Fair, Nair and Dtilt, his smashes are always unsafe on block). With the help of his nice range, disjointed and safe aerials, he is one of the best characters in the game at dealing offensive pressure once you have mastered spacing. But to do all of this you need to master spacing first, which can take a lot of practice and understanding of how the hitbox and frame data of Marth's moves are, but if put serious work on spacing, then it's very possible for anyone to master spacing with Marth.

 

[smashkng]

The best secondary is MK (obviously). Covers the DDD, ICs and ROB MUs the best. But actually I don't think Marth truelly needs a secondary because even his hardest MUs are very winnable once you understand the MU, DDD is very manageable (I have had many problems against him in the past but now it feels like it's a MU that is very close to even). So when going to tourneys, keep Marth. Using other characters however still can really help even if you never plan to use him in tournaments. That's because it can help you understand that character's strengths and weaknesses, which then makes it easier to learn the MU as Marth. It's just that Marth is a very demanding character, you have to learn a lot of things before becoming good with him. He's still a top tier however.

 

[Jackson]

Marth's about zoning, juggles, offensive pressure and reads. And although Marth doesn't have many ATs compared to characters like Snake, he's still a surprisingly technical character. Within some of his moves (like Up b, side b and Fair) there are some small tricks you can do that can make a huge difference. Learn b-reversal side bs (both turn arounds and simple momentum shifting while still facing forward, the latter you can do by first holding forward and then VERY quickly back-forward in the air, the momentum shift is pretty small but side b 1 is a move that has little lag. You can momentum shift with shield breaker too which is a greater momentum shift but it's not really recommended for escaping from juggles because it has a lot of lag). Learn different angles of Dolphin Slash. You can actually angle it between straight up (which is very hard to learn) and angling it forward a lot (and slight forward angling). With different angles you can land onstage to surprise someone edge hogging you in a position you can't stall out their ledge invincibility, and angling it forward can allow you to hit them before they can edge hog you at times. Angling it less forward can mitigate the occasional problems of the FD ledge. An interesting thing to know is also that the more forward you angle it, the less height it gives you, even if the difference is pretty small, it can make a difference. Like if you angle it forward too much, it could make an edge hog KO you when had you angled it slightly less forward you would have landed onstage. Max angling Dolphin Slash forward also makes Marth not land on the center plataform IIRC. Angling Up b forward by the maximum amount gives it extra horizontal range (pretty long range, at the very least as long as DDD's grab range making it a pretty damn good OoS, out of shield, option). Only use it when you know it will hit though. It hits on frame 5 and is invincible between frame 1 and 5, but then if you miss the opponent can punish you with almost anything they want, and it's actually unsafe on hit until at least around 20% (and the weak hit is unsafe on hit until pretty high percents).That frame 1 invincibility pretty much means that if the opponent misses anything by a frame, you can Up b out of their attempts to hit you. Example: if DDD messes up his CG, you can Up b, which will always outprioritise his grab thanks to DS's invincibility frames.

Always be smart when the opponent is above you, it's a position Marth struggles against. Try to get diagonally above them instead of directly above them in such positions. Makes it easier for Marth to defend with moves like his Fair. His Dair being bad for defending against jugggles is what makes him vulnerable when directly above someone. But smart fast falls air dodge or aerials like Fair mix ups can help you catch the opponent by surprise when you're trying to land. Trick mix ups like b reversal side bs can help you at times too. When recovering, always be aware of when you have RCO lag and when you don't have it. If you don't have to Up b, then usually don't do it, especially if you're above 100% (Marth has very limited options for climbing back to the stage when above it). When below 100%, buffered ledge jump gives you +10 invincibility (meaning you can ledge jump invincible aerials, Fair usually being the preferred one because it can hit opponents on the ground, you can even do things like invincible DB1 and fully invincible air dodge, although I wouldn't recommend doing the air dodge that often). The aerial after the ledge jump is unbufferable though (ANY option you do out of ledge jump is unbufferable, just keep that in mind). When above 100% Marth can no longer do invincible aerials from ledge jump, limiting his get up options greatly when combined with a much worse ledge climb and ledge roll (when below 100%, he has, the best ledge climb in the game, it's invincible for frames 1-30 and ends on frame 32, compared to most the rest of the cast's 1-30/34). So when on the edge, be patient, by picking smart options and/or waiting for the opponent to commit there is always a way of getting off the ledge.

When YOUR opponent is above you, you should be putting a lot of damage on them. Well spaced and positioned aerials can frame trap an opponent above you pretty easily. Like for example, in certain positions a full hop Uair frame traps into moves like Fair if they try to air dodge it and if they try to attack you then Uair will almost certainly beat it if you're spacing it correctly thanks to its range and disjoint. If you're doing everything correctly then you should be covering at least 2/3 of their options or more when they're above you. King Dedede is pretty different when it comes to how you should juggle him. Instead of jumping and catching him in the air, you should be staying on the ground and wait for him to land and punish his landing with something like grab or shield and DB punish any aerial he attempts to do, yes even Bair is actually a very punishable move, if you PS his aerials, then even easier to punish. Chasing him risks him being able to fast fall air dodge and then punish your own attempt to punish him, while staying on the ground makes it very difficult for him to land because he has really terrible horizontal aerial mobility.

About stages, Marth in general doesn't mind any stages too much except stages like Halberd and, against Meta Knight, Frigate Orpheon and Delfino. Halberd is probably still the best stage to ban against Meta Knight though. Marth really hates the opponents being able to shark him from the big plataforms on Halberd and Delfino. Frigate can be hard at first to play on but he has advantages there too, like the 2nd part being really amazing for juggling the opponent. If you jump around half the stage's height while the stage is transforming, it should never kill you. The lack of ledge on the right part can give him some trouble recovering, but Marth himself can also take advantage of that pretty well, especially against any character not named Meta Knight, because he himself has pretty good edge guarding options.

When it comes to neutrals, in general it depends on both preference and MUs. Against a character like Snake, for example, it depends on what you prefer to abuse on Snake. I personally like FD the most against him because he can't place C4s on plataforms for stage control and the lack of plataforms also makes him easier to juggle, at least for me. Against characters like Olimar, MK and Snake FD a pretty good option. Against characters like Ice Climbers and Falco, BF is arguably the best stage. BF is good for plataform pressure, better juggling at times and safer Up b spam (thanks to the plataforms especially the center one). Plus the ledge should never be an issue there. But things like opponents camping under the plataforms (like Olimar) and giving them more options to escape from juggles can work against Marth too. The plataforms could also possibly make it harder for Marth himself to escape from juggles, especially against characters like Meta Knight. If any neutral stage is worst for Marth, then it probably is YI because it makes it even easier for the opponent to plataform camp than on BF. This can be a problem against ROB for example. SV is a good stage against every character IMO, so if unsure what stage to pick, then just go SV LOL. And of course, master plataform cancelling on SV.

I can also tell you to remember combos. At low percents, Dtilt combos into DB. It can probably combo into itself if it's poorly spaced and dash grab after Dtilt can be a decent mix up from time to time too. Fair usually strings into itself. Uair right before landing on the ground true combos into moves like Usmash and Nair, which can deal some nice early damage. At 0%, Fthrow true combos into tipper Fsmash on almost the entire cast (You have to shutter step, that being the slight step forward you do if you smash the control stick right before smash your C stick forward; against some like Snake and another Marth though. Against characters like DK retreat shutter step if you want to tipper it). Then against some you some have other options from Fthrow too. Against MK, any aerial and Hyphen Smash is true from Fsmash on him. Against Fox and Falco you can do 2 Fthrows into Dair spike for a 0-death combo. They can only escape from it by Smash DIing correctly if you grab them close enough from the ledge. You can also do 3 Dthrows into tipper Fsmash on Falco after the 2 Fhrows and 5 Dthrows to tipper Fsmash against Fox. Against Pikachu, you can do at least 2 Fthrows and then Dthrow and tipper Fsmash. All of this can allow you to score some nice early 35%+ damage. At high percents, if you somehow land only the first Nair, then you can combo into Utilt for KOs. It's hard to land that though because of small vertical hitbox and Nair 1 only lasts for 2 frames.


In order to space like a god, I can give you some advices. Memorise Marth's hitbox sizes and get a feeling of how long each of Marth's moves take in order for his hitboxes to come out. Make use of double jumps for spacing in the air from time to time (without double jumping, turning around in the air has some start-up, double jumping allows you to change momentum instantly which is really useful). And be good at fast falling aerials correctly too when you want to do a fast fall aerial. Rest is just PRACTICE, PRACTICE AND MORE PRACTICE. Really spacing is a lot about how well you can time moves. Once your spacing is on point, you can make great mix ups by mixing between early and late Fairs and possibly even Fair cross up your opponent. Learning how to space dash to shields is really important too. For the first 17 frames, you can't shield (but you can jump, DB or anything you can do out of a jump, like retreating Fairs and Up bs) which is a certain distance. Don't forget to keep hold forward by frame 17 because then it takes more frames to shield (which is a weird mechanic but important to be aware of). When you dash to shield, you slide a bit when shielding, which at the same time means that it reduces shield push by moves in the case you fail to PS (power shield) them, making it easier to punish things they hit your shield with. Because only grab beats dash to shield, it's a relatively reliable approach option. If you dash dance backwards then forwards, and you release forward, you can shorten your dash. You have to hold forward again by frame 17 if you want to shield that early though. Be aware of your shield health when you approach with it though, Marth with a small shield is very easy to shield poke. If the opponent has projectiles (like Falco), walking is more recommended most of the time. When you walk, you can shield anytime and all options are available. If you want to maximise walking speed, first tilt your control stick slightly and then tilt your control stick to the max, otherwise Marth will be walking slower than you want him to. A good strategy against projectiles is walking (Marth has arguably the best walking in the game), PSing the first projectile, then if you're close enough, dash and DB for example (against Falco, dash attack can work too because Marth can then hit Falco while ducking under lasers).

Overall, there are more things with Marth I can say but that's what I will say for now. But the first thing I recommend you to start with is learning to space correctly because of how important it is to space with Marth. Many of Marth's problems (like his moves being weak when not tippered and his moves having low hitbox duration) can be greatly mitigated by great spacing. It also makes Marth's moves from being relatively easy to punish to pretty much unpunishable (talking about moves like Fair, Nair and Dtilt, his smashes are always unsafe on block). With the help of his nice range, disjointed and safe aerials, he is one of the best characters in the game at dealing offensive pressure once you have mastered spacing. But to do all of this you need to master spacing first, which can take a lot of practice and understanding of how the hitbox and frame data of Marth's moves are, but if put serious work on spacing, then it's very possible for anyone to master spacing with Marth.

Thank you SO MUCH Smashking! This was incredibly helpful and gave me many things to think about for my Marth game. I greatly appreciate how much you wrote, and this will help me reach the next level. Again, thanks So Much!

 

[Jackson]

The best secondary is MK (obviously). Covers the DDD, ICs and ROB MUs the best. But actually I don't think Marth truelly needs a secondary because even his hardest MUs are very winnable once you understand the MU, DDD is very manageable (I have had many problems against him in the past but now it feels like it's a MU that is very close to even). So when going to tourneys, keep Marth. Using other characters however still can really help even if you never plan to use him in tournaments. That's because it can help you understand that character's strengths and weaknesses, which then makes it easier to learn the MU as Marth. It's just that Marth is a very demanding character, you have to learn a lot of things before becoming good with him. He's still a top tier however.

Thanks for this Smashking! You've already become my most respected Marth here.
I'm gonna concentrate all my efforts on my marth game to be the best I can.

 

[smashkng]

Like I said on my orther post, tipping Dair is a lot about timing and memorising its hitbox size. It's easier to spike with the back side of Dair because it hits higher and the hitbox lasts more frames on the back part than on the forward part. The thing though is that it's tip hitbox is really small, even the back part, but still when you land it on someone offstage the reward is huge. You can do a Dair without fast falling by holding down in a situation you can't fast fall in and then while still holding down, tap C stick down, but even then, it's not really recommended to do. Characters who you will be spiking the most are those with a very slow recovery like Luigi, ROB and Snake. And on some characters like all spacies and Dedede you can Fthrow x2 (even Fthrow x1 works on all those characters) -> Dair for potential 0-death against spacies (for DDD, it will put him in a position you can potentially put a lot of damage on him) Against DDD you can do 3 Fthrows at 0%. Against MK, there is the crucial GR (air release) -> Dair which can KO MK as early as around 52% (watch someone like Mikeneko to see how it works) which I think has a 2 or 3 frame window of error and is done by correct buffering (the dash unlike most other things has only a 5 frame window for buffering, do it too early and you'll only walk instead) from a certain spot full hop + Dair.

Because of the difficulty of getting the spikes even with really good spacing, I recommend most of the time not going for it (still going for it from time to time can be worth it because of low risk if you stay onstage and if you sourspot it they usually are still in a bad position offstage). Against MK, it's much riskier to go for it than against any other character because of the threat of his Up b. Staying onstage for edge guarding is most of the time better because Marth with correct positioning (which depends on character, but generally I'll just say around the middle of the left or right plataform which is closest to the edge) can ledge trap very well there by Dtilt pressure, jumping and Fairing/Nairing with the 2nd hit of Nair hitting as low as possible (and tippering on the edge of the stage). You can also shield any attacks they do when trying to climb from the ledge and Up b OoS to send them back offstage. You can punish any normal climbs and get up rolls by good reaction and Dtilt/DB/Dsmash/Fsmash. Fair is usually a much better option for edge guarding because of its safety. You can also surprise a recovering opponent with it by walking off and Fair. Bair is pretty good too for edge guarding opponents recovering high because of great range and hitting pretty high. Bair also KOes significatly earlier than Fair when tippered and is not that hard to tipper. Another edge guarding is the occasional grab the ledge -> drop and use the invincibility for an invincible Bair edge guard. Make use of double jump retreats to tipper while not losing your postioning advantage if they recover high and keeping yourself very safe when you edge guard.

 

[smashkng]

No problem Jackson . Always willing to help with anything Brawl Marth related.

 

[Jackson]

Like I said on my orther post, tipping Dair is a lot about timing and memorising its hitbox size. It's easier to spike with the back side of Dair because it hits higher and the hitbox lasts more frames on the back part than on the forward part. The thing though is that it's tip hitbox is really small, even the back part, but still when you land it on someone offstage the reward is huge. You can do a Dair without fast falling by holding down in a situation you can't fast fall in and then while still holding down, tap C stick down, but even then, it's not really recommended to do. Characters who you will be spiking the most are those with a very slow recovery like Luigi, ROB and Snake. And on some characters like all spacies and Dedede you can Fthrow x2 (even Fthrow x1 works on all those characters) -> Dair for potential 0-death against spacies (for DDD, it will put him in a position you can potentially put a lot of damage on him) Against DDD you can do 3 Fthrows at 0%. Against MK, there is the crucial GR (air release) -> Dair which can KO MK as early as around 52% (watch someone like Mikeneko to see how it works) which I think has a 2 or 3 frame window of error and is done by correct buffering (the dash unlike most other things has only a 5 frame window for buffering, do it too early and you'll only walk instead) from a certain spot full hop + Dair.

Because of the difficulty of getting the spikes even with really good spacing, I recommend most of the time not going for it (still going for it from time to time can be worth it because of low risk if you stay onstage and if you sourspot it they usually are still in a bad position offstage). Against MK, it's much riskier to go for it than against any other character because of the threat of his Up b. Staying onstage for edge guarding is most of the time better because Marth with correct positioning (which depends on character, but generally I'll just say around the middle of the left or right plataform which is closest to the edge) can ledge trap very well there by Dtilt pressure, jumping and Fairing/Nairing with the 2nd hit of Nair hitting as low as possible (and tippering on the edge of the stage). You can also shield any attacks they do when trying to climb from the ledge and Up b OoS to send them back offstage. You can punish any normal climbs and get up rolls by good reaction and Dtilt/DB/Dsmash/Fsmash. Fair is usually a much better option for edge guarding because of its safety. You can also surprise a recovering opponent with it by walking off and Fair. Bair is pretty good too for edge guarding opponents recovering high because of great range and hitting pretty high. Bair also KOes significatly earlier than Fair when tippered and is not that hard to tipper. Another edge guarding is the occasional grab the ledge -> drop and use the invincibility for an invincible Bair edge guard. Make use of double jump retreats to tipper while not losing your postioning advantage if they recover high and keeping yourself very safe when you edge guard.

You, sir, have helped me out once again. Much obliged! Yeah, I guess Fair is the better option in most situations, but the prospect of a Dair gimp is tempting.

 

[Jackson]

Like I said on my orther post, tipping Dair is a lot about timing and memorising its hitbox size. It's easier to spike with the back side of Dair because it hits higher and the hitbox lasts more frames on the back part than on the forward part. The thing though is that it's tip hitbox is really small, even the back part, but still when you land it on someone offstage the reward is huge. You can do a Dair without fast falling by holding down in a situation you can't fast fall in and then while still holding down, tap C stick down, but even then, it's not really recommended to do. Characters who you will be spiking the most are those with a very slow recovery like Luigi, ROB and Snake. And on some characters like all spacies and Dedede you can Fthrow x2 (even Fthrow x1 works on all those characters) -> Dair for potential 0-death against spacies (for DDD, it will put him in a position you can potentially put a lot of damage on him) Against DDD you can do 3 Fthrows at 0%. Against MK, there is the crucial GR (air release) -> Dair which can KO MK as early as around 52% (watch someone like Mikeneko to see how it works) which I think has a 2 or 3 frame window of error and is done by correct buffering (the dash unlike most other things has only a 5 frame window for buffering, do it too early and you'll only walk instead) from a certain spot full hop + Dair.

Because of the difficulty of getting the spikes even with really good spacing, I recommend most of the time not going for it (still going for it from time to time can be worth it because of low risk if you stay onstage and if you sourspot it they usually are still in a bad position offstage). Against MK, it's much riskier to go for it than against any other character because of the threat of his Up b. Staying onstage for edge guarding is most of the time better because Marth with correct positioning (which depends on character, but generally I'll just say around the middle of the left or right plataform which is closest to the edge) can ledge trap very well there by Dtilt pressure, jumping and Fairing/Nairing with the 2nd hit of Nair hitting as low as possible (and tippering on the edge of the stage). You can also shield any attacks they do when trying to climb from the ledge and Up b OoS to send them back offstage. You can punish any normal climbs and get up rolls by good reaction and Dtilt/DB/Dsmash/Fsmash. Fair is usually a much better option for edge guarding because of its safety. You can also surprise a recovering opponent with it by walking off and Fair. Bair is pretty good too for edge guarding opponents recovering high because of great range and hitting pretty high. Bair also KOes significatly earlier than Fair when tippered and is not that hard to tipper. Another edge guarding is the occasional grab the ledge -> drop and use the invincibility for an invincible Bair edge guard. Make use of double jump retreats to tipper while not losing your postioning advantage if they recover high and keeping yourself very safe when you edge guard.

When going for the spike, would you reccomend turning your back to your opponent and then going for the Dair to hit them easier with the side of the hitbox? How is that for you?

 

[smashkng]

It depends on the situation. You don't always have the time to turn around. The front part is better when you don't have the time to turn or to hit opponents diagonally below you. It also has the advantage of coming out slightly faster. The back part can hit lower opponents too but the front part usually does it better. The back part is more effect for hitting higher opponents or opponents at the side of you, like from grabbing the ledge -> Dair edge guard. The front part has a hitbox until about the middle of Marth or something while the back hitbox goes a bit higher. When it comes to the guaranteed spike set ups I've mentioned in my other posts it's always the front hitbox I'm talking about.

 

[Jackson]

It depends on the situation. You don't always have the time to turn around. The front part is better when you don't have the time to turn or to hit opponents diagonally below you. It also has the advantage of coming out slightly faster. The back part can hit lower opponents too but the front part usually does it better. The back part is more effect for hitting higher opponents or opponents at the side of you, like from grabbing the ledge -> Dair edge guard. The front part has a hitbox until about the middle of Marth or something while the back hitbox goes a bit higher. When it comes to the guaranteed spike set ups I've mentioned in my other posts it's always the front hitbox I'm talking about.

Alright, thanks man.