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Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

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Teh Brettster

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Inui calls THAT one of the best Ikes in the world? He didn't use Nair a SINGLE time, and though spaced Fair is best option against Bowser's amazing OoS Fortress, there are times... low % with punishing opportunities...(see 3:15 last video) where Nair is just the best option and will lead to jabs, grab, Utilt....
He could have done some OoS Bair, but apparently didn't know to. And he rolled at inopportune times.
Meh. I liked the part where he ledge-stalled with Ike. Made me giggle.
Also, I straight up LOLed at 1:02 in the last video.

Also, it's pretty strange--- Vex is supposedly a Bowser main, right? Maybe it's just the character, but I've played Vex IRL... Bowser and other characters... and I really thought his Bowser was his worst character.
 

FrznSaber

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 10, 2008
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With every character board working on improving their metagames, maybe we should consider updating the Match-up guide. It has been about 9 months since the last update, and with all the new findings I wouldn't be surprised that what worked back then would be rendered useless today. Not to mention that it is currently incomplete.

Face it, we've reached a point in which it seems impossible to improve Ike's metagame further than it is now, so the least we can do is prepare ourselves to the changes the rest of the cast is going through.
 

Mr. Doom

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I thought Guilhe was updating the matchup guide. I already gave my input on Kirby, so I guess I'm done for now. I may write a review on Shiek, though.
 

numba1cheese

Smash Cadet
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Hey guys, so I finally decided to join this website after a year or so of lurking. Never really needed to post on here, but I figure it was about time I started helping out on the Ike threads. I main Ike and all that, but I wouldn't say I'm very good given what videos I've watched of other players. In any case, I'm done introducing myself, and I'm here to help. I already know most of the stuff I need to know about Ike, so you guys don't have to hate on me for not understanding any old terms.
 

Nidtendofreak

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I lol'd at M2K trying to use Uair->Aether at that high of %s. It rarely works at low %s for crying out loud. I also lol'd at onstage QD. I really hope that was just a slip up.

He's better then Inui's Ike, but neither of them are particularly good. Somewhere in the top 6-10 range.

EDIT: Watching second video now. Vex apparently doesn't know how to punish QD. He should have rolled out of range the time he got hit out of shield drop. The first one there I'll accept: it was a stalemate basically, but apparently QD>Fire Breath at minimal. But M2K got away with it way too often.
 

Teh Brettster

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Make no mistake, M2K is a fantastic player. I was just commenting on Inui's silliness for calling someone who doesn't know the intricacies of Ike one of the best Ikes.

Off to hang out with my friends. Next time I see you suckers, it'll be 2010. Have fun and be safe, everyone.
 

numba1cheese

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Judging from all three videos, M2K did a solid job of predicting what Vex was gonna do with Bowser. I mean, when you are making good reads on your opponent, your opponent does end up looking bad Brett. I didn't see M2K use N-air, but then again, it can be a bit tough to space that against Bowser. Mess it up and you will get punished. Oh and M2K needs to start jab canceling. Bowser can easily get juggled for some extra damage.

I do agree with you, he does seem like a top 10 Ike player. Not even sure if there are that many Ike mains that use him in tourny out there. He knows how to read his opponent and capitalizes on their habits. Give him more practice, and he could be a dangerous Ike.

On another note, who are the top 5 Ike players? We have some in Cali that don't get on SWF, so I was just wondering how your list stacks up against our Ike players. Notice how I said players and not mains >_>.
 

Mr. Doom

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This is what I believe to be top 5, not in any particular order: Mr. Doom, Mr. Doom, Mr. Doom, Mr. Doom, Mr. Doom. jk Someone else can be the judge of top five Ike players *coughcomecoughherecoughboredcough*.
 

Marauder

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No no I don't mean it like that. Its like, people are more critical of people like Inui, M2K, etc. At least, more so than they usually are with other people. Its kinda funny
 

numba1cheese

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No no I don't mean it like that. Its like, people are more critical of people like Inui, M2K, etc. At least, more so than they usually are with other people. Its kinda funny
Well it's more of the fact that, according to what I've read before, that they claim to be the best. Well, at least I've heard Inui or people say that Inui claims M2K to be the best Ike. They feel like the East is the best, and feel like that the people they beat with Ike in low tiers is amazing. In any case, the more you claim to be the best, the more hate you are gonna get. Granted they are famous players, and have some placings, but they don't do as well in comparison to other Ike mains out there.

2 more hours until New Years for me...so ya.

Flashiness gets you *****. Fact.
It's still 2009 where I am.
:D
Yea, Flashiness is good for friendlies and montages, but in tournies, you gotta play a good defensive/fundamentally sound game. That's why I like Kirk.
 

Nysyarc

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No no I don't mean it like that. Its like, people are more critical of people like Inui, M2K, etc. At least, more so than they usually are with other people. Its kinda funny
Exact same thing with celebrities (movie stars and etc). 99.99% of the population has never met Tiger Woods in their lives but they still judge him and criticize him based on one thing that gets inflamed by the media. Mind you that one thing in his case is pretty absurd... but it's kind of the same **** here. M2K plays one match as Ike and uses more Fairs than Nairs and suddenly he's a disgrace to the character.

I think it's just a case of us not being as well-known or widely respected as them even though we may feel we should be because of one thing they got wrong. Everyone who's never cheated now feel they aren't given enough credit, while Tiger Woods is world famous and he's been doing the whole country behind his wife's back.

Same thing here, we pick apart every mistake a pro player makes when using Ike because we want to believe that we're better than them at least while using the character we like the most. If they screw up once in an area where we think we wouldn't, then suddenly we get a false sense of superiority over them.

Obviously M2K, like Inui, only has a good Ike because he's an excellent technical player and has an acute ability to read his opponent. He knows generally how to use Ike but not as good as most of us. Still, we can't say he has a bad Ike or even that he has a worse Ike than us if the only thing we're going on is whether or not he used QD to recover two minutes into one match he played this one time.

...

tl;dr... Happy New Years guys!


:034:
 

Palpi

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People are critical because they don't like that person. Even if Inui was the best Ike niddo would say he is bad or not the best ike because he hates him as a person. Same with M2k, inui said m2k is the best ike, everyone hates inui therefore whatever he says is false.
 

Marauder

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I know the reason already, you guys didn't have to spell it out for me :laugh: I was just taking note of something.

People are critical because they don't like that person. Even if Inui was the best Ike niddo would say he is bad or not the best ike because he hates him as a person. Same with M2k, inui said m2k is the best ike, everyone hates inui therefore whatever he says is false.
Yeah this is what I think too. And I don't think its restricted to just pros either. Anyone who's built up before showing videos will be eaten alive when videos are finally produced. Even if they happen to be good.
 

Mr. Doom

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There are, I believe, two reasons for this supposed phenomenon: one is either jealous of the person in question or s/he believes s/he is better than that person.
 

Teh Brettster

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Or, how about this one: Inui played up M2K to be like the best Ike or whatever.. and I saw a video, and I can tell by looking and seeing his obvious lack of knowledge about Ike that he is not the best. You can be a musical mastermind, but if you don't know what fingering makes what note on that flute, and you don't know exactly what type of air flow is best at different times and how to color your tone, you're not going to be the best flute player in the world. Not until you have a good bit more experience and know the instrument.
So, I'd say that a somewhat lesser skilled player with a lot more knowledge about Ike and his match-ups is still better than M2K's Ike. San, Bored, Kirk, Kimchi, etc. are without a doubt better than that.

About Vex-- I don't know exactly how to criticize Bowser, and I wasn't really criticizing him. It could very well just be that Bowser is a worse character than the rest, but I played his Bowser and several other characters-- and his Bowser was the easiest to play against.

There ya go.

Happy new decade, by the way, guys.
 

Nidtendofreak

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You can't tell how good someone is by looking at youtube videos alone. It is much different in an actual match. Flashiness =/= Good.
Using a move that is punishable on hit =/= good either. >_> And the Flashiness =/= good statement isn't entirely true. If you can basically never get punished for being Flashy, you are very good. It proves you have so much control over your character, you can pull crazy things all the while keeping yourself safe. If you get punished for it: not so good. You have knowledge of what a character can do, but not how to incorporate it safely.

People are critical because they don't like that person. Even if Inui was the best Ike niddo would say he is bad or not the best ike because he hates him as a person. Same with M2k, inui said m2k is the best ike, everyone hates inui therefore whatever he says is false.
If they were actually great, I'd say as much. But they aren't that good. Inui doesn't use many moves outside of Jab, Fair, and Grab. That's not good. That's a rather basic Ike that has a fair bit of trouble KOing at a decent percent. And even if he did get better, he'd still be saying stupid things like Snake is the best character in the game and beats MK (when freaking Ally said Snake was about 4th best), and that Ike goes at best 3-7 against anyone in high tier. He shouldn't be in the backroom, and he's obviously too full of himself to see he's not magically the best Ike or Ganondorf simply because he decided to use them in low tier tournaments. I'm surprised he hasn't claimed he's the best Mario yet, seeing as he's started to use him a bit. Simply put: I hate fools and idiots who have any amount of power, particularly when it's obvious that they are a fool and an idiot, but nobody has the balls to knock said person out of authority.

M2K would probably be top 5 if he'd stop using QD. He got punished for it more then he got away with it. There are a few other minor rough edges, like not using grab enough, but still a solid Ike. Probably about 6th or 7th currently. He could be 5th, but I'd have to see more videos to see if he uses Nair more. I only saw Nair about 3 times against Vex.
 

Melomaniacal

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Clearly he's doing something right, give him some **** credit. How many Ikes can perform as well as M2K's Ike? Not many. Sure, he doesn't play a text-book Ike. He may do things that are less than preferred. But guess what? It works anyway. Brawl is more about reading and spacing (stuff you can't analyze well unless you play the person, since it's an individual reaction deal) then how many advanced techniques you use. If he uses QD to recover and it works, then oh well. It worked.

Oh, and Niddo:
Being flashy and successful is good, yes. But being not-flashy (whatever the term is) and successful is better and smarter. To suggest otherwise is pretty... weird.


My big point here...
Stop measuring skill in how much Nair someone uses. Look at how they perform, who they beat, etc. That's valuable data. Number of Nairs doesn't matter if they're still performing extremely well.
 

Ryo_Guikido

Smash Ace
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Aug 28, 2008
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To be honest I'm not a fan of his ike but nonetheless he won so I can't bash him.
But yea X you have a huge fan base lol. I do down here in florida duh. And other people on the web it's fun.
 

-RedX-

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Clearly he's doing something right, give him some **** credit. How many Ikes can perform as well as M2K's Ike? Not many. Sure, he doesn't play a text-book Ike. He may do things that are less than preferred. But guess what? It works anyway. Brawl is more about reading and spacing (stuff you can't analyze well unless you play the person, since it's an individual reaction deal) then how many advanced techniques you use. If he uses QD to recover and it works, then oh well. It worked.
We do give him credit, Niddo just said M2K would be a top 5-10 Ike, he's only saying the things that would actually help M2K become even more scarier with Ike. Then again, I don't think M2K even reads all the info in Ike boards >.>
Also, I think M2K only uses Ike in low tiers, iirc, you can just Fair and Jab everything in low tiers and win. Almost all to most Ike mains here uses Ike in regular tournaments and place, but I don't place as well as some of the Ikes here lol

And Ryo, I have the worst fanbase ever >_>
 

Melomaniacal

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We do give him credit, Niddo just said M2K would be a top 5-10 Ike, he's only saying the things that would actually help M2K become even more scarier with Ike. Then again, I don't think M2K even reads all the info in Ike boards >.>
Also, I think M2K only uses Ike in low tiers, iirc, you can just Fair and Jab everything in low tiers and win. Almost all to most Ike mains here uses Ike in regular tournaments and place, but I don't place as well as some of the Ikes here lol

And Ryo, I have the worst fanbase ever >_>
All I'm reading is "he's not that good," "he does this and this and this wrong," etc. When the truth it, he is that good, and I don't care what he does wrong, because he still wins.

And no, M2K probably doesn't read anything on the Ike boards. Clearly he doesn't need to.

To say that all you need to do to win events with Ike is fair and jab is an absolute load. Low tiers or not, that's just not true. If it were true, I would **** with Ike in low tiers. lolidont
 

YagamiLight

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Happy New Year, everyone.

Anyway I don't want to particularly bash either M2K or Inui for using Ike how he should be used in Low Tier. Ike is the best character in "low tier" simply by virtue of "Wow, I totally outrange and overpower you and your character is limited enough that you can't really get past that." This + their high level reading ability does let them do well. I've seen the videos, not flashy or anything. But they get the job done so whatever.
 

-RedX-

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All I'm reading is "he's not that good," "he does this and this and this wrong," etc. When the truth it, he is that good, and I don't care what he does wrong, because he still wins.
I guess you have a point there, just if I were watching matches, I would like the player to win with some sort of style/amazing crap happening in the matches, that's just my personal preference.

And no, M2K probably doesn't read anything on the Ike boards. Clearly he doesn't need to.
He made a thread here not too long ago asking how to Jab cancel lmao

To say that all you need to do to win events with Ike is fair and jab is an absolute load. Low tiers or not, that's just not true. If it were true, I would **** with Ike in low tiers. lolidont
Ok, I was exaggerating that a little, Light said it better.

Brett, what good is having a fanbase that lies and trolls 80% of the time? lol
And I hate when they cause unnecessary hype >_>
 
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