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Armada - The Beast Is Unleashed

~Tac~

One day at a time.
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Why is there so much Brawl-mad in this Melee section of SWF? Not allowed.

But to make my post on-topic, I thought the video itself was pretty damn good. Real nice clips of footage. Would've liked to see longer ones though, maybe a couple full-screen ones too like someone else said.

Overall, I enjoyed the actual "timeline" of his progress.

Lastly, if credit is truly lacking from source or whatever, it's only right that credit is given. But I'll leave it at that, good job.

Now get this brawl salt off my Melee.

Edit: Props to M2K for predicting the future too. You seem a little upset with the ban though. I can understand that, you kinda got gayed by Amurrca.
 

ReFLeX_RFX

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
33
i can understand people now who say leffen is a douchebag
yeah this exactly this, like luma said.

normally I ignore people like you Leffen, there is a difference between "constructive criticism" and the way you "criticise".

saying to me I'm just saying to the criticism "haters gonna hate" is ridiculous.
you have to read better son, when someone say you are a thief and I'm saying, i bought this all and we have this even in our film producing rooms where we work daily and I'm not making any money of it! its all ok and legal, but you're writing here stuff like I'm posting to all of them haters gonna hate (this was actually posted by others way more).

To open your eyes again and against this "you are denialing the "real critic""
.
I answered King Funk, Master TK & Samo long enough!(especially King Funk to almost every point)and it was opinion vs opinion, because he didn't come with words like art thief etc.

but I didn't answer to you at all, because they were constructive , but you are like an 12 years old childish guy, who posted even in the trailer "Omg omg, to much effects copy paste rofl, lool 28 minutes don't watch etc", while a guy puts much work on it to give the community something different.

as I told before I have nothing against constructive criticism, ( we talked about all points and I answered everything, so I'm not willing to talk about anymore because its repetition).
To hear from you, I didn't answer and just "denial" is simply the most illogical stuff I ever heard, or you are just to young to read & understand a text.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

@topic thank you all , really =)

and

@tac, yea I really thought long enough about adding the part with mango!
but he is such an great player, and Armadas rival for such a long time...that I decided to give his own hype section :)
nice to hear from you all, that it was the right choice ^^
 

H1N1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
470
To be quite honest I respect Europe and Japan a lot more than America as a whole. Australia too. The people are way nicer in my experience. I have not yet met a rude smasher from any of those places (have not been to europe but I met european people). And I don't want to play for america either, since last time I did that and put on a USA tag they rooted against me the rest of the set, then they ban me from mlg, ban me in Unity, ban tactics I use and/or invent (planking and then scrooging), ban my character, and always root against me at tournaments. Screw them. The vid was pretty good I watched it twice and enjoyed it a lot. I'm glad he won genesis2
here are a few things for you to consider... you **** in peoples beds. take controls without returning them. and you dont give a **** about anything.
 

Glöwworm

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
1,417
Location
CA
Am I the only one that felt like I was watching some big Marvel movie in the beginning of the video? I haven't seen it in its entirety yet 'cause I need to sleep but it looks great so far.

take controls without returning them.
Really? That fiend! Making people change the channel all manually and ****...
 

keldon888

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
3
Location
UCF
I really liked it, whoever said the production takes away from the replay values was right, but that first viewing was the most amazing combo video I have ever seen so that balances out. And I don't even like Peach.

Also if uploading all those parts is a pain you might just wanna make a torrent of it.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
this video is cool

people are complaining about video quality or art theft or other **** that doesn't matter

go complain to film/art people. i just want to see a character whooping ***.

you made peach look not boring

10/10
 

King Funk

Int. Croc. Alligator
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
2,972
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
ReFLex, I knew that you used templates/effects. I just didn't really bother to mention that at all because you still spent the time to put this video together. I don't know what I have to say about failing to credit the actual makers of those templates, but to be honest, there are so many other videos like that on YouTube that don't even give credit themselves that it doesn't matter anymore.

Which is why I placed my criticism almost only on how you put this video together.

I was really hoping this thread wouldn't de-rail into a flamefest of "you stole stuff", but in the end it did.

Dissapointed. =(
 

~Tac~

One day at a time.
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884
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Same here. The video was damn amazing. Could've did a couple things differently, but there's no such thing as a perfect video if it's on Youtube.

Except for EpicMealTime. ****in smart.
 

Mew2King

King of the Mews
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
11,263
Location
Cinnaminson (southwest NJ 5 min drive from Philly)
here are a few things for you to consider... you **** in peoples beds. take controls without returning them. and you dont give a **** about anything.
no, I DONT, I NEVER EVER DID THAT. I've said this 53409343894398439 times. The guy I housed with wanted to play me in smash but I was housing with him for a few days I THOUGHT but then I had to leave to change locations the 2nd day. I spent all day and many hours into the next day watching Bleach cuz I kept wanting to finish the saga I was on, and we never got to play, then I left and found out him posting that on smashboards. IT - NEVER - HAPPENED. Nothing happened. NOTHING HAPPENED. I didn't do anything, and I'm tired of people saying this stuff and believing it, CUZ IT NEVER HAPPENED

as far as the controller thing, that may have happened at some point in time since over the years a LOT of people have let me use their controllers, but if I did, it was NOT on purpose. I apologize for that if that happened. If there are specific people that need one back have them message me. Someone actually stole my silver controller at Ktar6, but yeah I would NOT do stuff like that intentionally.
 

holyv

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
454
Location
Brazil
Ken/Isai > Hungrybox/Mang0 > M2K > Armada

Good player, good combo video, i'm happy to see melee ain't dead

---------

hey m2k, what you doing now that metaknight is banned? u mad? or going to play another character?
 

~Tac~

One day at a time.
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nah, last couple videos werent that epic anymore compared to the others, am i right hater?
Yeah, like the last..3 or 4 weren't as good. Must be the broken arm. Point remains. xD

And Jason, don't listen to him. You should know H1N1's a troll, lol. It's even a troll tag. (<3ubrian)
 

strawhats

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
4,273
Location
Bronx
Ken/Isai > Hungrybox/Mang0 > M2K > Armada

Good player, good combo video, i'm happy to see melee ain't dead

---------

hey m2k, what you doing now that metaknight is banned? u mad? or going to play another character?
He's quitting brawl. Supposedly he won't play much melee as well, but I think he should just super try hard and give the brawl community the old **** you for screwing him and other MK mains over.
 

Republican0fHeaven

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
776
Location
Lebanon, NH
Wow I definitely didn't expect it to turn out like this. Mad props for the hard work put in. Its kinda like watching a movie rather than a combo vid

<3 smash
 

Captain Nggr

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3
Location
Berlin, Germany
I like everything about this video.
Well .. that one thing that makes me mad is that you did not
edit a whole lotta scenes, but I can definitely look over this fact. :)

Ömer, you're amazing. Lookin forward to a GSF CV ! :D

I like that you took the advice with the annotation links. :)
 

KoRoBeNiKi

Smash Hero
Writing Team
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5,959
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Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
KORO#668
kinda long, I agree in some ways with what King Funk said.
I wish there were more European tournament vid scenes.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
Was very nice but you overused the effects I think there are a lot of times it would have been better to go into fullscreen.
 

bËst^

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
219
Location
Hyllykallio, Finland
I also feel like that is were totally good looking video overall. And at points very cinematic, but that is (IMO) not the most important thing in combo/presentation video. I got the feeling that the video was 80% of effects and maybe 20% of Armada. I know you were after something different than just showing pure combos But I thought that "something" would be some stories about armada (maybe interviews and so on) but it was just the high light match moments and special graphics. Pretty awesome I admit and overally nice video. Not amazing, but very nice. Maybe I just happen to like more those simple combovideos with good music or some simple special interviews :p
 

Johnknight1

Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
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I saw this video a few days ago a couple of times and I still remember it clearly. It was incredibly well done. The only part that could be improved would be more of Armada earlier in his Melee career, but that complaint is minimal.

I love the parts where you have video of the match and players at the same time. That's friggen awesome.

Five Stars. This is easily the best Smash Bros. Compilation Video I have ever seen! Armada should be proud! :grin:
 

Eggm

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
5,178
Location
Neptune, NJ
Loved it. The flashy editing parts between the clips of armada were too long at times. Overall I think you made something amazing. I never thought I'd see anything like this in smash. :D

Pretty much agree with this. Nice vid. :)
 
Joined
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Messages
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PWN
lol at the lightsaber battle. loved that part.

Dang Reflex, you really went all out on this. Definitely takes prize for most visual effects work in a combo vid. And 28 minutes... watched this like a movie.

I'm going to critique it though for things I thought were important - I think your efforts should be reviewed. And I'll mostly focus on what I think is important. But first, some fun initial reactions.

Intro is epic. I like the swipes around the names, it's kind of reminiscent of the smash logo, or of fighting moves. A pretty 'legendary' intro, this feels like a movie.

Star Wars intro - I actually hate these, not because they're cliche, but because it takes so damn long for the words to cross the screen (come on people, this is the media era, we read things faster than the words finish rendering). This intro seemed somewhat redundant in terms of what was being said (couldn't this have just been squeezed into the intro before this?), but I suppose it made a nice lead into the... lightsaber scene, which I thought was hilarious.

Cool Google-earth-type geo-change swoop, I like the Transformers? music. Also the Scorponok theme that comes in later (nice choice). Some cool transitions with the gameplay clips overall. Liked the fireworks scene ('shufflin') and highlight combo with punch sfx and blood splatter, thought that was a nice touch and combination of elements altogether. I saw a subtle warping-in/heat-wave/melting effect on the video borders and title at one point, thought that was neat. The news ticker you had at one point was kinda lulzy. Mind Heist for Genesis 2 was a nice choice. Mang0 Team America... lol silly. I personally don't care for the song, but it makes it funnier knowing you're not from America haha :p.

Film reel credits seemed nice, and I liked the ending pictures and theme and stuff and piano music... kind of cool, nice feeling to it.


__________The Details


There are some 'semi-macro' and many micro problems I see with your organization and execution. We know, this isn't just a combo video; you're telling a story here that spans multiple tournaments. And I'm not saying it's easy to figure this all out, but your video is overproduced. It's not that I get a "look at me!" vibe from you or your video, but perhaps relying on your tools might have gotten in the way of things. No matter the reason why, it is what it is, and though it's pretty cool in some ways, it is pretty distracting and unnecessary in others.

For example, presentation. First goal: organize clips by tournament, give viewer match info (players, bracket), and show alternate camera feed of crowd to we can see them as well. In the end, you went with a 'dvd menu' style of presentation, and this had some subsequent hang ups that ultimately interfered with the video. Of course a 'dvd menu' style of presentation isn't bad in itself - we get to anticipate the matches ahead with chapter titles, and you can create different menu styles and themes to distinguish between the different tournaments. This is important, as you pointed out, because you wouldn't want the viewer to see the same menu theme every time, and for other reasons.

Second goal: separate the tournaments (and perhaps create some 'breathing room') by highlighting clips from elsewhere in Armada's journey (or wherever), because it's cool and it showcases more of Armada's abilities and style. Your sports- or news-themed 'action of the moment!' type of presentation was kind of cool: it gives a lighter feeling, and produces some comedic instances (the fireworks scene, or the bloody punch-sfx one), and it adds in some sweet clips that otherwise wouldn't be showcased in the tournament sections.

This execution had several problems though. Overall, the menus and highlight reels are a mostly impractical, the styles and clip placement can be distracting, and the disconnected themes between each menu subtract from the video rather than add.
They're impractical because the menus and the highlight reels were too slow: you give us the date and the title of the tournament, but our time to read it has finished already, and we are left waiting to see the clips. It's also very straightforward and plain (the clips are here, we're going to watch them, we have to wait for it to be selected and load, etc.), which distracts and brings down the level of excitement and pacing that you provide in the actual clip editing. The same goes for the themes: there really is no theme overall for your video, other than it's a series of movies we're watching in a very disconnected manner. You use a different effect or style for every single section of the video; very quickly, we stop caring about any of the effects that are used because none of them link or connect to each other in any way - and so we're left to focus on the clips themselves, while letting off an occasional 'ooh cool' if we see something worth noting. The point is that the presentation and styles themselves are superfluous to the actual point of the video because they are unnecessary and actually distract , and that we are unable to really appreciate the effort put into the effects, because you provide us with no reason to appreciate them within the presentation of your video.
The other reason I mentioned there is because I thought the actual display and such of the clips is poor: the styles, which serve no real meaning or purpose, end up being ignored or cluttered distractions to the actual clips. Specifically, the 'artwork' used to display the match info below the clips is fancier than the clips themselves, and becomes hard to read at times. Some of them have constantly moving portions to them, of which with the added motion-tracking the eye can do, these make the screen cluttered, and a distraction. Essentially, the artwork and styles do not serve to make the user more engaged in the combat and more easily informed of the information of the match that's going on.
As well, the actual clips themselves are slightly too small on the screen. This is important, not only because we want to be able to see them, but because - and most people probably don't think of this - since the surrounding area of the clip is so unnaturally large and empty, and yet we're expected to be able to take it all in at once, you're actually separating our attention to both be looking at this relatively small portion of action on the screen while simultaenously expecting us to be aware of anything happening in the large surrounding space around it. There is a problem of trust here, between the viewer and the presenter, mostly due to everything being 'erratic' in that it doesn't spring from some foundational element you've shown, but rather, it because it exists 'just because.' And these are the reasons why I think your video is enormously 'overproduced': because you've added way too much stuff to be able to handle it well, rendering most of it as unecessary and superfluous, or worse, as a distraction.


What I think you did right: Your clips are edited well. The fade and other simple transitions are perfect. The title and match info (though not the styles surrounding them) are a good addition, and having them close to the video border is a great idea (though the pound 4(?) symbol, which was off to the side, was nice, I thought). Together, these can suck you into the gameplay nicely. The alt-camera function is a really nice and welcomed addition as well. Perhaps the background noise or commentary can be distracting for some, but overall, I think they're really fun to have. For someone like me, who hasn't really seen these clips before, I thought it was great to see the cool things Armada has done, and the cool things that have been done against him (and side note, clips have been recycled before in other videos, and it's been fine). My only minor complaints are that I think you cut the clips off a little too soon at times (just a few times), and that I think the final matches could have been longer, with more clips, and more action (talk about anticlimactic in terms of proportion), but I otherwise welcome your fast-paced editing.


__________The Bigger Picture


As I've made my point with the smaller parts of the video, this reasoning now naturally extends to this larger point: on the whole, I think your video is highly stylized (cool), yet highly disorganized (not as cool).

There's not too much else to say here. At times, this video felt like quite the video-skills showcase that wasn't handled as well as it could have been. I think the styles and themes and sections of your video, though cool individually, perhaps, make somewhat of a bumpy and slightly dull ride when put together. I thought the hype sections and epic announcer transitions were ineffective and largely too cheesy to really be worth it, given their context in the video. And it just ends, I guess? Your video ends fairly abruptly, and without real close. With such effort put into the captivating intro, the ending felt like an optional afterthought.

I have no real complaints about your music choice: though slightly cliched at times, I overall enjoyed it and felt it pretty engaging into the video.

There are a few other points I could point out (like another thing about the Star Wars intro), but the big picture here is how the video plays out in the end, and I think I've covered everything I want to say about that.

__________Closing Thoughts

In the end, I think your transitions and themes could have worked together and more effectively overall, by cutting back on their superfluousness and having them tie-in and connect to each other in better ways. The same goes for the presentation of the match info, as I thought these could have been simpler and easier to read. I think the entire video could have been reduced by several minutes just by having faster and more effective transitions. I think your presentation idea can be different next time, and better.

If I were to take a guess, it seems like you included so many effects not because you wanted to impress, necessarily, but because you thought it would make the video better. In the end though, this seemed to turn out more to be a showcasing of video skills and less of a video about smash and Armada. Which is fine, in its own regard, but I don't think that's what you were trying to do. I could be wrong about all of this, of course, but it seems good to think about.

...but this was my first melee movie...
I say these all as critiques, not to say you're a bad videographer, or that you can't make good videos, but in hopes these will help. I still think your video is good, but it's definitely not as enjoyable as it could be. There are a lot of bad videos out there, and the good ones come with their own problems too.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
858
Location
PWN
Now for other responses...

My opinion:
this video is cool

people are complaining about video quality or art theft or other **** that doesn't matter

go complain to film/art people. i just want to see a character whooping ***.

you made peach look not boring

10/10
Basically this. I care mostly about how good he was able to show a combo/story vid. People are going to make stuff and get credit for it, but since this isn't for any gain really, and since we can see that there are other flaws as well, the ethics of the development concern me less than the quality of the final product.

Though I probably give the video a 79/100. That said...

Following and using those tutorial has nothing wrong thought, but don't act like you did them yourself. The bigger problem is those templates you used. I've been doing and selling after effect templates for years and I hate it when somebody use mine or other designer's templates without paying. I'm pretty sure you didn't bought all of those, right?

...

If you really bought all of those, that's good! But I doubt that. At least give some credits for those who made them. Peace.
This needs to be brought up more. All the tubers are using glasses that seem to fog common sense when they praise effects he hardly made himself. I mean, anyone could see that. But ofc, he removed TK's comment from youtube and then removed the smashboard link, so that no one there would see further than their noses.

Following tutorials is all good, but not giving any credit for these people who he got the templates from and not buying their stuff he's using is nothing less than art theft. I should know, I'm schooling for the graphic industry myself as well. To make all these from scratch in 2 months time would take jesus himself basically. But slapping a couple templates he hardly bought for the making of this video (really, stuff worth 300$? yea right, just ware that stuff and no one cares, cept vdeohive if they find out), following a few tutorials... doesn't really make anyone god of video editing, no matter how much people are praising. And frankly, all that praise he's getting for using someone else's work sickens me.

And then he has the gall to say he gives credit to things which are insignificant... yet I see no credit given to these artists who's work is being used here for reflex's fame and glory. Not a single line of thought given for the sweat and pain these artists at videohive shed to make those effects he practially stole for his video. The nerve to say he has limited time when he went and did 28 minute video in 2 months time, that he has no time to give credit where credit is due. A small special thanks given to videohide and other sources on smashboards & tube when you got called out on it just does not cut it, I see what u did ther. Especially not when half of the video is comprised of such things gotten from videohive and other sources.
So the three problems here are:

1. Paying for templates vs. not
2. Learning or using something and taking credit for it
3. Not giving credit for something you used or learned

1. Does it really matter if it's not for monetary gain? If he learns a skill through something he 'stole', or if he learns to use something he doesn't own - there's nothing he can really do about it then, legally, anyway. So if he hadn't really payed for all this stuff, but still used it, is it only bad because he published it? Because it seems that-
2. You're mad because he's receiving praise for using something he might not own or have obtained permission to use. Which is understandable, but is it relevant? We came here to watch a sweet video about smash and Armada. If you got what you wanted, can't you praise him for that? You may wish that he would only get credit for what he's done on his own, but it doesn't work like that, because we all have to rely on something someone else already built for us. And though some things are obvious, the only way it might look like he's taking credit for someone else's work is by not giving credit at all, which-
3. I think can be a serious point. If I make a video, even if it's for free, even if it's with something I don't "own," I'm still going to give reasonable credit to the things I used: my video editing program, extra templates and plugins I used, any and all music I used, any tutorial sites I heavily mined or need to thank for their services, any people who helped me create the video. Why? It just makes sense: we'd want these videos to continue to be made, because it's not just about us, and if we don't share and spread the sources of good things we've used, then it's really like we don't care about the people involved, or even the video itself.

And so on that point I can agree with you. Now, it's just for a 'fun videogame movie' - so I can put it in perspective - but it's still not the best. Like KF said:

ReFLex, I knew that you used templates/effects. I just didn't really bother to mention that at all because you still spent the time to put this video together. I don't know what I have to say about failing to credit the actual makers of those templates, but to be honest, there are so many other videos like that on YouTube that don't even give credit themselves that it doesn't matter anymore.

Which is why I placed my criticism almost only on how you put this video together.

I was really hoping this thread wouldn't de-rail into a flamefest of "you stole stuff", but in the end it did.

Dissapointed. =(
Framing the problem --> good perspective, even if it's still disagreeable.

Maybe someone can love [these effects], but after seeing theme thousand of times in other videos, it's getting boring.
Perhaps. There is something to say about keeping things fresh and not just doing stuff that everyone else is doing... but to be fair, no one has really done this with a smash video, at all. Now, if he was more creative with what he did, that'd be a lot cooler...

A combo video nowadays the shorter the better, ideally 4-5 mins. I do understand that you were trying to show Armada's road though but yea.
Understandable, but the real issue is how you present it. 28min of pure clips is pretty unbearable, but so can 4-5min even. Turn it into a creative adventure or story however...

We all love variety. But too much variety and difference between each song makes the video a bit hard to follow.

I can understand that many of us have become addicts to internet memes, clichés and comedy. We're big fans of the randomness they provide and the fun they give. Youtube poop, memes and even our very own smash videos are filled with this type of fast-paced assortment of various songs and sounds. And that's something you are clearly trying to give to your viewers. However, combining this with an overall dramatic feeling is like mixing up milk and orange juice. At least for me it is.

Dramatic orchestral music followed by hip hop, video game remixes followed by techno is common in videos of that kind, but when that kind of randomness goes on for 28 minutes, it wears me out.

Song choice is slightly too cliché at times but I have no real problem with that.
Yeah it really is about the disconnect of it all. Randomness can be fine, but here, there's such a variety of themes and such and no real thread to connect them all with - it wears you out because you can't really form a connection with any of it.

Some of them even contain slight errors. The Apex one shows a list with "Losers Semis", "Losers Finals" and "Grand Finals", and then the DVD-style scene select shows "Losers Quarters" instead of "Losers Semis" (which is nowhere to be found). Same thing happens in the Pound V one. Weird stuff for a video that strives for technical perfection.
Yeah, errors happen, but... that's too bad for this one.

speaking of errors, dang you really did get graped by armada kf... lol sorry.

I can really only parrot what King Funk said.

This video could probably have been a solid 15 minute combo video and achieved the same goals, without being overedited and overindulgent in the use of titles. Personally, I would have also removed the raw audio from the matches, because 1. I can't stand the dissonance of match music with bg music, and 2. HMW's commentary has really been pissing me off lately.

I dunno, I really like Armada's combos, but I feel like they took second fiddle to a lot of elements in the video that were totally unnecessary.
I think this is a good point, though my personal preference is for the bg noise anyway... but I guess I could go either way on that.

i know i skipped the winnerfinals with pp/armada and also winnerfinals hbox/armada.
ah lame... yeah i think you should have included them.


Now for something else of my own that's unrelated to the actual editing: 5.5GB filesize?

This is something I have a particular nitpick with, not just because I'm always one for practicality, but because you just have a ridiculously large filesize for the downloadable video. Now, I know that a 28minute 1080p video is going to be pretty large, but there are two small points I want to make here. First, smash is, unless recorded from an emulator, going to be 480i, sometimes 480p: there's no real reason for a video to be any greater than 720 in resolution, let alone 'progressive' (60fps), which basically doubles the filesize. Now I know your resolution choice is an exception, because you added a lot of effects and such that ultilized all that area, but then I refer back to the complaint about the gameplay video size being too small. Barring that though, I can still make the second point: 5.5GB filesize? Doing the math, it seems like you used a bitrate of about 27ish mbps. Now if you used 30fps video, your bitrate would be pretty decent, at around 13-14mb, which would seem to be the correct scaling from a decent bitrate for 640x480 video - that's if it were 30fps. But since your bitrate is double that, I can only assume it's running 60fps. Which is adding an extra 2GB of filesize, at least. Furthermore, and though I don't understand video compression all that well, your video is mostly large empty black space and still images. Perhaps the 6-8mbps I've heard being ok for 1080p30 video could work then - I've tested a few videos on my computer, and they seem fine at that bitrate.

In any case, I'm just saying, next time, I think you can do just fine with a lot smaller filesize.
 
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