Are throws too good?

[Karthage]

I'll start this post by saying I don't really intend this as any sort of nerf thread.

When I play, I find myself going almost entirely for throws.

Grounded punish? Going to go for a throw.
Opponent attacking me from the air? Going for a shield grab.
When running at an opponent, know what's better than a dash attack? A throw.
Even when I need to kill and don't have a throw that kills by itself, often I have an aerial that will do the job so I go for throws to try and set up that aerial.

They are ridiculous in usefulness. For many characters, they have the damage of a smash attack( or way more ), can't be shielded, and aside from tether grabs, are usually very hard to punish.

In the case of some characters like Ness and Diddy, throw + follow ups are all you need to build up damage AND kill.

It feels kind of boring.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Given the prevalence of shielding and by extension shield grabs, grabs naturally come into play to shut that down.
For the majority of characters as well Grab is their second or third fastest option on the ground.

Grabs aren't generally too good. Air approaches are too easy to shutdown on a beginner/intermediate level right now that you ground yourself. General footsies is complicated but grabs are simple and quick reward. Grabs will lose significance when/if offensive options are properly understood.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Nah but I wonder if there aren't too many Killthrows, I really don't like killthrows because when people try to go for them its obvious and it ruins the flow. Plus they are an anti-climactic way for stocks to end.

 

[LightLV]

I'll start this post by saying I don't really intend this as any sort of nerf thread.

When I play, I find myself going almost entirely for throws.

Grounded punish? Going to go for a throw.

Many other options are too slow/unsafe to do the job, so this is just a consequence of smash 4.

Opponent attacking me from the air? Going for a shield grab.

Again, consequence of smash 4 mechanics. But this is mostly the fault of the attacker, the moment i notice my opponent is over reliant on shield grabs, i just empty approach and grab/poke/punish them for it.

Unless im using marth, now you're going to get shield broke and die

When running at an opponent, know what's better than a dash attack? A throw.

Again, mainly if your opponent is block heavy. Dash attacks get punished by shield grabs, shields get punished by grabs. Nearly any neutral A is going to beat a dash grab attempt.

Even when I need to kill and don't have a throw that kills by itself, often I have an aerial that will do the job so I go for throws to try and set up that aerial.

Me too. Har har

In the case of some characters like Ness and Diddy, throw + follow ups are all you need to build up damage AND kill.

I agree. Although Ness doesn't even need a follow up, his throw kills at decent percentages.

I'm not disagreeing that throws are strong, but i think your problem is that you need to play better people. Because it's very easy to snuff grab attempts on this game, especially since they lose trades.

But i hate fighting characters with throws that KO at low percents, or have universal followups. It's such a good tool to have in this game.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Are throws too good?

No

Grabs have to be good because shields are good. Shields have to be good because attacks are good. Attacks have to be good because grabs are good.

That's the rock-paper-scissors-dynamic at the heart of the game. You can't just remove that balance. If grabs weren't rewarding, then spamming shield would be broken.

 

[Karthage]

No

Grabs have to be good because shields are good. Shields have to be good because attacks are good. Attacks have to be good because grabs are good.

That's the rock-paper-scissors-dynamic at the heart of the game. You can't just remove that balance. If grabs weren't rewarding, then spamming shield would be broken.

I don't know, throws just tend to do so much more damage than attacks.

I've been taken from 0-50 easily by mario and ness off of one throw. I'd have to land 5 tilts to equal that much damage.

Throws are low risk with insanely high reward, I feel like it skews things a lot.

 

[Iron Kraken]

I don't know, throws just tend to do so much more damage than attacks.

I've been taken from 0-50 easily by mario and ness off of one throw. I'd have to land 5 tilts to equal that much damage.

Throws are low risk with insanely high reward, I feel like it skews things a lot.

Grabbing, shielding, and attacking inherently act as a system of checks and balances.

For example, let's say that you think grabbing is so good that you will almost exclusively go for grabs. Your opponent should pick up on this, and can easily counter that strategy by not bothering to shield and instead staying on the attack. If you don't in turn adjust to his strategy, you are going to be crushed.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

The throw isn't doing 50 damage, it's the follow up options out of the throw.
The throw is a necessity for re-positioning and breaking shield defense.

 

[Karthage]

The throw isn't doing 50 damage, it's the follow up options out of the throw.
The throw is a necessity for re-positioning and breaking shield defense.

Most of the follow ups are guaranteed though. If they were vortex style mixups I wouldn't have much of a problem with them, but something like DDD's down throw is a 18 damage move( more with pummels ) until pretty high percents, where it "only" gives you a chance to go for a kill with the uair or an edgeguard with backthrow.

It feels weird that going for throw is much, much more powerful than going for an attack.

 

[Teh Sandwich]

Spot dodge beats grab

 

[RESET Vao]

Just remember that it could be Brawl Ice Climbers, that'll snap you out of that delusion.