Arcthunder + Down Tome Quick Kill/Kill Setups

[Blue-Mage]

I apologize in advance for garbage video quality:

Originally happening as a byproduct of me trying to prove people wrong about Robin getting nothing off of footstools, I've now come to understand that the same warped physics that come into play when you Arcthunder -> d-air also apply to the opponent when hit by tomes during arcthunder. It results in things like this: https://youtu.be/_OEhZjuUQk8

It can lead to a whole lot of earlier kill options & results in tons of damage, the most notable being an earlier "checkmate" (if you want to even compare it to that). It's the difference between being able to kill someone like Corrin or Samus at 65% instead of around the 90% range. % List here, though missing most DLC: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...NsWI_gKQ6UTEaoC4CKQ1JYNw9rw/edit?usp=sharing}

Would like to make more practical, if possible. Most reliable way to set up is as a punish for ledge options, but that's all I've got. Thoughts?

 

[Conn1496]

Honestly, it's just a case of those hitboxes overlapping and causing new angles to come from them. The same thing happens any time two launching hitboxes come into effect at the same time as far as I know. Arcthunder is just really good for those setups in general since it holds them before the launch occurs, and keeps any other hit's launch stored because of the insane amount of hitstun (Thanks electric hit properties.).

As for tome hits, the only big trick I know of is that you can get an instant tome hits if you're close enough when the Arcthunder starts by crouching or turning around, instantly discarding the tome into them, which makes it perfect for a Nosferatu followup. If your opponent has a bad recovery though? You can kill even earlier with Arc > Instant Discard > D-air.

Of course, both are already pretty situational, but the power behind them is pretty insane.

I'm sure there's probably a ton more to do with Arcthunder hitbox overlapping that hasn't been tapped into, and that really interests me. If I pick up Robin again post 1.1.6, I'll probably end up labbing it if anything changes. (Though, trust me, I don't think there's anything they can do about the way Arcthunder's hitbox overlapping works - it's basically just the way the physics works that makes this effective at all.)

 

[eyejayy]

As for tome hits, the only big trick I know of is that you can get an instant tome hits if you're close enough when the Arcthunder starts by crouching or turning around, instantly discarding the tome into them, which makes it perfect for a Nosferatu followup. If your opponent has a bad recovery though? You can kill even earlier with Arc > Instant Discard > D-air.

anyone have video of this? never heard of crouching or turning around after shooting arcthunder to let the discarded tome hit

 

[Conn1496]

anyone have video of this? never heard of crouching or turning around after shooting arcthunder to let the discarded tome hit

It's fairly straightforward - usually, an animation takes place where the tome is thrown fairly slowly behind you, but interrupting it with a movement will force it to be discarded in the same arc as if you'd completed the animation instantly from it's position (In your hand, infront of you.), so if you Arcthunder close enough then crouch or turn around, it will instantly discard it into the enemy.

It's actually really easy to see for yourself in practice mode. Just do 3 arcthunders, then on the 4th (When it'll be discarded, IIRC.), do it at point blank and hold down so Robin instant discards it into them. The hit is really noticable, but you won't even really see the tome hit since it disappears so fast.

I don't think instant discards have much other use outside of arcthunder and maybe speeding up Robin's gameplay by a few frames, but it could maybe be worth looking into.

 

[GaleOmega]

I found basically the same combos that you did, but I didn't want to put my stuff to public because actually the footstooling method only works with certain characters and where they are hit with the book after the footstool. If you do something like arcthunder->footstool->down thrown tome, some characters go behind you instead of over the abyss, so it made footstooling the setup inconsistent for me, because I hadn't done the full research to see which characters it did work on (which there are some). Instead, you can just throw the book down while they're in the arcthunder, you just need to make sure it's on the right part of their hurtbox (I know you showed this off, just reiterating).

Also, here's my video, not much different, just a bit better quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV17nnagJAI