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Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

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Robert of Normandy

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Yeah, because the guy who does basically nothing for over 15 chapters is the protagonist,
"basically nothing?" Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Robin acting as the main Tactician for the army for the whole game? At the very least I'm pretty sure he engineered that fleet burning thing, and IIRC he was also the one who devised that volcano thing to help deal with Yen'fay. That's a bit more than "basically nothing."
On the grounds that Chrom could use the Falchion and the Fire Emblem alone, he brings more important elements of Awakening than Robin did, meaning better and more important representation of awakening itself; even if he is less fresh on the smash bros perspective, which as seen by Mac, can be overcome easily if Sakurai put his mind to work. If Chorm had skills then, holy crap.
GOD DAMMIT NOT THAT F***ING SHIELD AGAIN

Also, doesn't Marth already use the Falchion?
 
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Deviddo

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Oh for goodness sake guys, neither of you (IronFish, Guedes), nor do I, know who the "true" protagonist of Awakening is. Literally, all we have is Sakurai's OPINION that Chrom is the protagonist, and that's not much to go on anyhow.

That's exactly why Chrom was never a lock.
Why? Because he's not the most popular according to Guedes, or because popularity isn't everything?

IronFish, stop with your bloody Chrom hate already, goodness you and Guedes need to calm down, you both have OPINIONS on who the protagonist of Awakening is, and according to Sakurai, whoever the protagonist was didn't matter ANYWAY since the Avatar is apparently not important as Chrom to him, and he picked the Avatar anyway due to moveset potential that HE saw.

tl;dr You both have opinions, that's it, calm down. Sakurai apparently didn't care about who the main character was since his opinion is Chrom is the protagonist, but he picked Avatar due to potential he saw.
 
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Skyblade12

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weren't the kids and 1st gen separate?

anyways, from what i remember Lucina beats Chrom on the polls indeed. They both beat every other character, too. and Popularity isn't everything.
Look at poll percentages, though. Lucina massively beat out Severa for second place in the female children bracket, but Gaius pulled much closer to Chrom.

Nobody was much relevant during Valm, but Chrom at least maintained a presence throughout the entire arc; and his passive role is more notable than Robin's.
Really? He literally does nothing the entire arc. Robin has three noted strategic gambits at that time. The burning of the ships, the assault on Fort Steiger, and the attack on the volcano.

Mario is the protagonist of his series. Chrom is the protagonist of his game
Luigi is the deuteragonist of Mario's games. Robin is the deuteragonist of Chrom's game
Or, perceived a different way, Robin is the protagonist, and Chrom is the deuteragonist. Which character do you get introduced to first? Which one plays the strongest role through all three arcs? Which character has a solid arc for the entire story? Which one is the driving force for the majority of the game? Robin. Not Chrom.
 

IronFish

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Look at poll percentages, though. Lucina massively beat out Severa for second place in the female children bracket, but Gaius pulled much closer to Chrom.



Really? He literally does nothing the entire arc. Robin has three noted strategic gambits at that time. The burning of the ships, the assault on Fort Steiger, and the attack on the volcano.



Or, perceived a different way, Robin is the protagonist, and Chrom is the deuteragonist. Which character do you get introduced to first? Which one plays the strongest role through all three arcs? Which character has a solid arc for the entire story? Which one is the driving force for the majority of the game? Robin. Not Chrom.
Thank you! I have trying to say that, but I end up doing it too opinionated...
 

guedes the brawler

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"basically nothing?" Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Robin acting as the main Tactician for the army for the whole game? At the very least I'm pretty sure he engineered that fleet burning thing, and IIRC he was also the one who devised that volcano thing to help deal with Yen'fay. That's a bit more than "basically nothing."

GOD DAMMIT NOT THAT F***ING SHIELD AGAIN

Also, doesn't Marth already use the Falchion?
Which bring us to the passive role of Leader Chrom has. Neither bring a big impact to the story, only affecting single chapters when Robin needs to pull something out of ass because everyone else is too dumb, or when Chrom needs to deal with other nations (or say'ri)

Like it or not, the shield and the gemstones within it are important and could be feasibly utilized in a moveset. And yes, Marth has a Falchion, but that wasn't my point: i was saying that since Chrom can use the Falchion and the Shield, this means he represent more important aspects of Fire Emblem Awakening than Robin does since those 2 are the most important elements of the whole game (though the Falchion has more of a "satellite" importance). Marth's Falchion has nothing to do with it's future importance in FEA.

Really? He literally does nothing the entire arc. Robin has three noted strategic gambits at that time. The burning of the ships, the assault on Fort Steiger, and the attack on the volcano.


Or, perceived a different way, Robin is the protagonist, and Chrom is the deuteragonist. Which character do you get introduced to first? Which one plays the strongest role through all three arcs? Which character has a solid arc for the entire story? Which one is the driving force for the majority of the game? Robin. Not Chrom.
Passive role of leader, and the fact that he is the one who actually deal with the important characters story-wise, the big event of the Valm arc isn't attacking fort Steiger of burning ships: it's defending Ylisse with the assistance of the Resistance and ferox, and dethroning Walhart. both events are credited to Chrom, rather than Robin.


as for your other points on the seocnd paragraph:

1- You get introduced first to chrom in the story; because you don't know you are seeing the first cutscene through Robin's eyes the first time you play; and you get info about Chrom earlier than Robin.

2- Again Chrom. Robin didn't do much through the late Gangrel arc to ever receive full-story consideration, and he was still important throughout the other arcs; not to mention Leader > tactician; as seen in Fe7, 9, 10 and 12. and 13.

3- No character. Chrom doesn't have enough personal stuff happening to him on the last arc, and the same goes for robin in the first one.

4- Aversa or Validar, depends on whether you credit Aversa's doing under Validar's order to the guy. Chorm and Robin are "reaction" protagonists; they don't do stuff, they deal with stuff. In the Gangrel Arc, it's aversa manipulating gangrel into doing stuff... which we later hear, was for gangrel to combat Walhart, who was being manipulated by Excellus (he denies in story, but confesses to it in one of his supports) who in turn was being tricked by Aversa; who is under Validar's orders in the later game. Loyalty to him leads her to do her job after the guy is gone.

since this is a related and commonly seen argument, i'll address this as well: just like above, neither robin or Chrom are the characters the story revolves around. No one has that honor, for the story ultimately revolves around the Fire Emblem and it's gemstones (all major happenings can be traced into getting the FE and the gems. why do you think Aversa had Gangrel trying to beat Walhart [who had 2 stones] and dominate the lands around himself [FE, and the other 2 stones]]


Seriously, can anyone tell me why using the
spellchecker decreases my font size? or apparently increases it when the size reaches the minimum...
 
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nessokman

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Chrom was a horrible option, and I'm genuinely glad they went with Robin. I'm sorry, but four swordsmen is extreme overkill. This is a game about representing the best from the respective series each character comes from.

One thing smash does is makes people want to buy the games with the characters that are in it. What the hell do you think people who have never played fire emblem will say seeing four swordsmen? They need to know that there is a lot more to the series than swords, in fact, I wish there were bows/lances/staves, but in time, I suppose.
Also, doesn't Marth already use the Falchion?
It is the same sword chrom uses, If I recall, the handle has to be changed or fixed after so long due to wear on it. The blade itself hasn't changed.

Oh for goodness sake guys, neither of you (IronFish, Guedes), nor do I, know who the "true" protagonist of Awakening is. Literally, all we have is Sakurai's OPINION that Chrom is the protagonist, and that's not much to go on anyhow.


Why? Because he's not the most popular according to Guedes, or because popularity isn't everything?

IronFish, stop with your bloody Chrom hate already, goodness you and Guedes need to calm down, you both have OPINIONS on who the protagonist of Awakening is, and according to Sakurai, whoever the protagonist was didn't matter ANYWAY since the Avatar is apparently not important as Chrom to him, and he picked the Avatar anyway due to moveset potential that HE saw.

tl;dr You both have opinions, that's it, calm down. Sakurai apparently didn't care about who the main character was since his opinion is Chrom is the protagonist, but he picked Avatar due to potential he saw.
Look at poll percentages, though. Lucina massively beat out Severa for second place in the female children bracket, but Gaius pulled much closer to Chrom.



Really? He literally does nothing the entire arc. Robin has three noted strategic gambits at that time. The burning of the ships, the assault on Fort Steiger, and the attack on the volcano.



Or, perceived a different way, Robin is the protagonist, and Chrom is the deuteragonist. Which character do you get introduced to first? Which one plays the strongest role through all three arcs? Which character has a solid arc for the entire story? Which one is the driving force for the majority of the game? Robin. Not Chrom.
Just going to reply to both of you like this. It doesn't matter who the protagonist is, but both Chrom and Robin are the main protagonists. To say that robin is the main character alone would be to say the main character of "Fire Emblem" on GBA is your character instead of Lyn.
 
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Skyblade12

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Which bring us to the passive role of Leader Chrom has. Neither bring a big impact to the story, only affecting single chapters when Robin needs to pull something out of *** because everyone else is too dumb, or when Chrom needs to deal with other nations (or say'ri)
So, being the army's strategist and tactician and actually making important decisions is equivalent to literally just standing there, which is all Chrom does the entire arc? All because you feel these decisions were "pulled out of his ***"?

Like it or not, the shield and the gemstones within it are important and could be feasibly utilized in a moveset. And yes, Marth has a Falchion, but that wasn't my point: i was saying that since Chrom can use the Falchion and the Shield, this means he represent more important aspects of Fire Emblem Awakening than Robin does since those 2 are the most important elements of the whole game (though the Falchion has more of a "satellite" importance). Marth's Falchion has nothing to do with it's future importance in FEA.
No, they're not. They aren't even the most important elements of the story, and the story is not the entire game (as much as you seem to think it is). The two most important single elements of the story are:

Time Travel.
Robin's ties to Grima.

These both utterly dwarf the macguffins of the Falchion and Fire Emblem with regards to actual story importance.

Chrom was a horrible option, and I'm genuinely glad they went with Robin. I'm sorry, but four swordsmen is extreme overkill. This is a game about representing the best from the respective series each character comes from.

One thing smash does is makes people want to buy the games with the characters that are in it. What the hell do you think people who have never played fire emblem will say seeing four swordsmen? They need to know that there is a lot more to the series than swords, in fact, I wish there were bows/lances/staves, but in time, I suppose.
Yep. If you follow the Robin thread, you'll see there are quite a few people who picked up Awakening just because they had something new and different that none of the other characters did. And that Chrom would most definitely have not brought to the table.

Just going to reply to both of you like this. It doesn't matter who the protagonist is, but both Chrom and Robin are the main protagonists. To say that robin is the main character alone would be to say the main character of "Fire Emblem on GBA is your character instead of Lyn.
No. The main character of Rekka no Ken is probably Eliwood. Even in Hector's story.

MOST AWESOME character is Lyn.

Although, going back to the Chrom comparison, Lyn also starts out as incredibly important to the plot, yet then fades into obscurity once the real story gets going, so... Yeah, like Chrom, she's not the main character, and few people would argue that she is.
 

Robert of Normandy

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Like it or not, the shield and the gemstones within it are important and could be feasibly utilized in a moveset.
I'm not debating that. It's stupid for Chrom to use the shield because Awakening isn't the only game to have it as a major plot device.

The Fire Emblem/Shield of Seals is present in all of the Archanea games bar Gaiden. It's a major plot device, being a royal treasure of the house of Archanea, and being the shield used by Naga and the thing that seals the Earth Dragons. Unlike in Awakening, it and the 5 orbs are actually items that have an impact on gameplay. The Fire Emblem in both books allows Marth (the only person who can have it in his/her inventory) to open chests without the need for a key, and once it's restored it gains the bonuses of the Starspere and seals the Earth Dragons that appear in the final chapter. The Lifeshere restores HP to the units who holds it. The Geosphere provides hit/avoid/crit boosts to surrounding units. The Starsphere, and the Star Shards that are used to restore it in FE3/12, boost stats or growths depending on the game. The Darksphere negates enemy attacks. The lightspere negates the Darksphere's effects and enemy terrain bonuses. What's more, the game doesn't just hand you the various Orbs like in Awakening; you have to actually make an effort to make sure you collect each of the Orbs and Star Shards in the chapters they appear in, otherwise you won't be able to get the true ending.

Now, seeing how important the Fire Emblem/Shield of Seals is to Marth's games, and seeing how Sakurai didn't see it as important enough to even appear as an aesthetic thing on Marth....what makes you think that the SoS/whatever it's called in Awakening should be a part of Chrom's moveset in any significant way?

(oh, and before you bring it up, the shield DOES appear as part of Marth's battle sprite once he obtains it. Plus it appears as an icon right next to his name once he gets it in his inventory)
 
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guedes the brawler

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So, being the army's strategist and tactician and actually making important decisions is equivalent to literally just standing there, which is all Chrom does the entire arc? All because you feel these decisions were "pulled out of his ***"?



No, they're not. They aren't even the most important elements of the story, and the story is not the entire game (as much as you seem to think it is). The two most important single elements of the story are:

Time Travel.
Robin's ties to Grima.

These both utterly dwarf the macguffins of the Falchion and Fire Emblem with regards to actual story importance.
if you say Robin's job is important, you can't deny what Chorm does is also important. i didn't mean anything by the source of robin's ideas.

and yes, they are; the two things you listed CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT in story

Time Travel means Grima got in a pre-revival timeline: Validar no longer needs Robin aas a vessel for the awakening (Grima wants Robin's bod cause he is power hungry and Robin went to him with everyone else.)

The Fire Emblem and the gemstones are required to bring Grima regardless of Time travel, and it's easy to see they are the things that drove the entire plot:

validar wants Grima to be reborn, so he prepared Robin as a vessel, but he needs the Fire emblem AND the gemstones to perform the awakening.

He makes Aversa manipulate Gangrel to try and acquire the Fire Emblem, as well as Gules and Argent. gangrel wanted to take down Walhart, who would bring problems for Validar... but that also gives him access to Vert and Azure.

Validar aided Chrom fight Validar to acquire these two gems later on. He didn't need Robin for anything since he had the Hierophant, he only ind controlled him into doing stuff because he is evil: the guy can teleport and take a cheap shot at Chrom whenever he wishes (AKA Awakening is a mess)

I'm not debating that. It's stupid for Chrom to use the shield because Awakening isn't the only game to have it as a major plot device.

The Fire Emblem/Shield of Seals is present in all of the Archanea games bar Gaiden. It's a major plot device, being a royal treasure of the house of Archanea, and being the shield used by Naga and the thing that seals the Earth Dragons. Unlike in Awakening, it and the 5 orbs are actually items that have an impact on gameplay. The Fire Emblem in both books allows Marth (the only person who can have it in his/her inventory) to open chests without the need for a key, and once it's restored it gains the bonuses of the Starspere and seals the Earth Dragons that appear in the final chapter. The Lifeshere restores HP to the units who holds it. The Geosphere provides hit/avoid/crit boosts to surrounding units. The Starsphere, and the Star Shards that are used to restore it in FE3/12, boost stats or growths depending on the game. The Darksphere negates enemy attacks. The lightspere negates the Darksphere's effects and enemy terrain bonuses. What's more, the game doesn't just hand you the various Orbs like in Awakening; you have to actually make an effort to make sure you collect each of the Orbs and Star Shards in the chapters they appear in, otherwise you won't be able to get the true ending.

Now, seeing how important the Fire Emblem/Shield of Seals is to Marth's games, and seeing how Sakurai didn't see it as important enough to even appear as an aesthetic thing on Marth....what makes you think that the SoS/whatever it's called in Awakening should be a part of Chrom's moveset in any significant way?

(oh, and before you bring it up, the shield DOES appear as part of Marth's battle sprite once he obtains it. Plus it appears as an icon right next to his name once he gets it in his inventory)
Because he didn't need to

Initially, Marth was the Second and supposedly the only other Swordman in Melee, cause the decision to clone him and Link was made later. A basic moveset was completely fine at the time.

If he can't see something to make Chrom unique, and ther eis a need for it, why not? i repeat: makes more sense than what was done with Rosalina.
 
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Skyblade12

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Yes, they cancel each other out. Because they're on two opposite sides of the main conflict. They are still far more important to the plot of the game, and how the story plays out, than the gems are.

In the Future Past, the gems are important. In Awakening, they are literally just macguffins. They are shiny, do-nothing trinkets that you have to have because reasons. There is nothing to them. If you need proof of this, just watch the scene where the gemstones are kept far away from the battle because no one wanted to tempt fate, and yet Grima still comes back because he doesn't need them. They're just a plot element to chase down, and they contribute almost nothing to the story.

And, again, story is not everything. Gameplay is incredibly important (especially when considering Smash Bros.), and Chrom is so much more bland than Robin in that regard.
 

Robert of Normandy

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Because he didn't need to

Initially, Marth was the Second and supposedly the only other Swordman in Melee, cause the decision to clone him and Link was made later. A basic moveset was completely fine at the time.
Shive_What_small_45.jpg


Where did you even get the idea that Marth was ever intended to be a clone of Link?

Seriously, I don't think it's physically possible to express all of my what at this post.
If he can't see something to make Chrom unique, and there is a need for it, why not?
Because there's no reason to do it either?
i repeat: makes more sense than what was done with Rosalina.
See my above comment about all of my what.

I fail to see how promoting a Macguffin with no major impact on gameplay in Awakening to a major part of a Chrom's moveset is in any way comparable to having Rosalina use Lumas in her moveset.
 

Oblivion129

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Good to see the thread so active :4pacman:
I personally still think Chrom is the main character of the story, but since you play as Robin and see everything as Robin, you (Robin) are basically the protagonist of the game. Anyways
(I know you've all played it, but just in case.)
You get to pick who to use to defeat Grima. Basically you can choose who gets to be more important.

This is all irrelevant, though. Robin is already in.
Chrom can only hope for DLC.

About the poll thing, I think it was divided by male and female. In smash polls, though, I'm pretty sure Roy is second most wanted right under Mewtwo, then Chrom and Lucina for Fire Emblem.
 

Robert of Normandy

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About the poll thing, I think it was divided by male and female. In smash polls, though, I'm pretty sure Roy is second most wanted right under Mewtwo, then Chrom and Lucina for Fire Emblem.
I believe in a recent poll (prior to the robin reveal obv) Chrom overtook Roy in popularity. Roy also isn't the second most wanted newcomer. He was behind characters like Ridley, K. Rool, and Palutena. Roy has been slightly more popular than him in shortie's poll over most of it's history, but only slightly. The two were more or less even.
 

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It's amazing how juvenile this thread has become. It must say a lot about the Smash Bros audience because the kind of conversation would hardly be considered acceptable on any other forum. Why drives people to go ****posting in character support threads is beyond me. What do you hope to accomplish by rattling someone else's cage? What does it matter who the main protagonist was, and why do you want to have that conversation here of all places? It's clearly a subjective issue, anyway. Grow up.

And before anyone on the support side thinks "at least he's not talking about ME" the reactions have been just as bad. People are feeding like crazy.

I'm personally not too invested in this subject. Chrom and Lucina were my number 1 FE character choices, and Robin was right below them. I ended up only getting my wish half-met since Lucina turned out to be a clone, but Robin seems like a really cool fighter, too. I'd definitely buy Chrom DLC, though, because I enjoyed his character and typically like swordfighters.
 

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I believe in a recent poll (prior to the robin reveal obv) Chrom overtook Roy in popularity. Roy also isn't the second most wanted newcomer. He was behind characters like Ridley, K. Rool, and Palutena. Roy has been slightly more popular than him in shortie's poll over most of it's history, but only slightly. The two were more or less even.
I guess the poll I saw was a very early one (it was a Japanese one, I can't find the source). It had Mewtwo and Roy way above the rest, I can't seem to find it, though.
It's amazing how juvenile this thread has become. It must say a lot about the Smash Bros audience because the kind of conversation would hardly be considered acceptable on any other forum. Why drives people to go ****posting in character support threads is beyond me. What do you hope to accomplish by rattling someone else's cage? What does it matter who the main protagonist was, and why do you want to have that conversation here of all places? It's clearly a subjective issue, anyway. Grow up.

And before anyone on the support side thinks "at least he's not talking about ME" the reactions have been just as bad. People are feeding like crazy.

I'm personally not too invested in this subject. Chrom and Lucina were my number 1 FE character choices, and Robin was right below them. I ended up only getting my wish half-met since Lucina turned out to be a clone, but Robin seems like a really cool fighter, too. I'd definitely buy Chrom DLC, though, because I enjoyed his character and typically like swordfighters.
Welcome aboard. Don't worry, the thread has always been like this, except now we're like 3-5 supporters and 3-5 detractors against guedes.
How would you feel about Chrom as a DLC Ike or Mii swordfighter clone?
 

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I guess the poll I saw was a very early one (it was a Japanese one, I can't find the source). It had Mewtwo and Roy way above the rest, I can't seem to find it, though.
You're also confusing newcomers with returning vets.

Welcome aboard. Don't worry, the thread has always been like this, except now we're like 3-5 supporters and 3-5 detractors against guedes.
How would you feel about Chrom as a DLC Ike or Mii swordfighter clone?
I'd like to see Chrom in-game from a character standpoint, but I can't see him getting in without having something new and unique being brought to him. Which means we need a sequel with him in it first.
 

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How would you feel about Chrom as a DLC Ike or Mii swordfighter clone?
Dunno about the Mii, but Ike is my favorite FE character in general, and I love the way he plays, but I wouldn't want to compromise his uniqueness too much.

I'd be okay with Chrom being a Luigi-style semi clone, though. Maybe take a few concepts of his and put a different spin on them.
 

Skyblade12

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I'd be okay with Chrom being a Luigi-style semi clone, though. Maybe take a few concepts of his and put a different spin on them.
That would be the best option for a DLC chance, I think. Is fan demand high enough to get a fifth rep for Fire Emblem, though?
 

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You're also confusing newcomers with returning vets.
I couldn't find the poll, but the polls I've found had Roy in top 10 or so. (Most wanted character polls with newcomers and cut veterans included).

I'd like to see Chrom in-game from a character standpoint, but I can't see him getting in without having something new and unique being brought to him. Which means we need a sequel with him in it first.
Take into account that Mii sword-fighters are unique and only use a sword, and Robin's sword-play is unique, too. I don't think Sakurai ran out of ideas for sword-users, he just preferred how Robin represented Magic + Sword and the tactician side of FE.

Dunno about the Mii, but Ike is my favorite FE character in general, and I love the way he plays, but I wouldn't want to compromise his uniqueness too much.

I'd be okay with Chrom being a Luigi-style semi clone, though. Maybe take a few concepts of his and put a different spin on them.
In our DLC page you can find some unique Chrom move-sets, but given how much time adding a character takes, there's always the possibility of having clones.
 
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Skyblade12

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I couldn't find the poll, but the polls I've found had Roy in top 10 or so. (Most wanted character polls with newcomers and cut veterans included).
Really? First I've heard anything close to that sort of ranking, but ok.

Take into account that Mii sword-fighters are unique and only use a sword, and Robin's sword-play is unique, too. I don't think Sakurai ran out of ideas for sword-users, he just preferred how Robin represented Magic + Sword and the tactician side of FE.
Agreed, but do you think we're likely to get Chrom as a DLC character when there are so many heavily demanded non-swordsmen unless he gets something more to pull from?

In our DLC page you can find some unique Chrom move-sets, but given how much time adding a character takes, there's always the possibility of having clones.
The big problem though that there are already 4 FE reps, but if the recent image leak is true, Lucina is separated from the other FE characters, so maybe Sakurai considers it like 3.5 FE reps.
It's not, and don't talk about it, please.
 

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It's not, and don't talk about it, please.
It's not what? The part about the movesets or the 3.5 FE reps? Development-wise seperating Lucina from Marth took less time to make than a regular character. I'm just grasping at straws, though. It doesn't help Chrom much but it's something.
Also, some polls: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-ssb4-poll-lounge-poll-results-for-500-mark.324324/
Agreed, but do you think we're likely to get Chrom as a DLC character when there are so many heavily demanded non-swordsmen unless he gets something more to pull from?
Nah, I don't think he'll pick Chrom, but he definitely can make him unique with just a sword. He just has no reason to. The fan demand will have to be high for some impact, and a lot aren't so into Chrom to support DLC that much. Me? I really like Robin representing Awakening, but at the same time I really like Chrom. Only hardcore Chrom fans will still support him, while the Awakening fans are already satisfied.
Sort of like Roy who I really want but I won't riot or anything.
 

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It's not what? The part about the movesets or the 3.5 FE reps? Development-wise seperating Lucina from Marth took less time to make than a regular character. I'm just grasping at straws, though. It doesn't help Chrom much but it's something.
Also, some polls: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-ssb4-poll-lounge-poll-results-for-500-mark.324324/
The leak is not real, and this is not a place to discuss it. Period. There is a leak social group if you want to talk about it. This is not the place, and I am sick to death of the leak discussion already. Mods have already said no leak talk in the character threads. Don't discuss it. Please.

Nah, I don't think he'll pick Chrom, but he definitely can make him unique with just a sword. He just has no reason to. The fan demand will have to be high for some impact, and a lot aren't so into Chrom to support DLC that much. Me? I really like Robin representing Awakening, but at the same time I really like Chrom. Only hardcore Chrom fans will still support him, while the Awakening fans are already satisfied.
Sort of like Roy who I really want but I won't riot or anything.
I don't think fan demand can get high enough to get Chrom in either. Awakening already has two reps. Getting a third is just untenable.
 

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The leak is not real, and this is not a place to discuss it. Period. There is a leak social group if you want to talk about it. This is not the place, and I am sick to death of the leak discussion already. Mods have already said no leak talk in the character threads. Don't discuss it. Please.



I don't think fan demand can get high enough to get Chrom in either. Awakening already has two reps. Getting a third is just untenable.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't need to use the leak, though. It's a fact that Lucina didn't cost much development time, regardless of where she is on the Character Select Screen.
If SMTxFE somehow has Chrom in an important role he'll have a chance. Right now though Sakurai probably has no intention of adding either Chrom or Roy.
 

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Because there's no reason to do it either?

See my above comment about all of my what.

I fail to see how promoting a Macguffin with no major impact on gameplay in Awakening to a major part of a Chrom's moveset is in any way comparable to having Rosalina use Lumas in her moveset.
And there was no reason to even give Swords to robin, he could very well use magic for all of his moves. but hey, if he can use a sword, why not? it's the same damn thing here.

i truly don't get what the problem is, here. just recapping, your argument is "the shield is mor eimportant for MArth, and he didn't use it, so Chrom shouldn't", is that it? that's just asinine.

The Problem with Rosalina is the way Lumas work. Rosalina's character is all about how she is like a mother to the poor little guys; and forcing them to fight for her, endure death blows for her, and control them to do as she wishes is really not something that is in-character.

That and rosalina could feasibly just use stuff from Mario Galaxy without this gimmick.
 
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The Problem with Rosalina is the way Lumas work. Rosalina's character is all about how she is like a mother to the poor little guys; and forcing them to fight for her, endure death blows for her, and control them to do as she wishes is really not something that is in-character.

That and rosalina could feasibly just use stuff from Mario Galaxy without this gimmick.
That's not out of character. Rosalina is all about her Luma's and how she's motherly, yes, but she's not forcing them to fight FOR her, while she basically eats popcorn. She's fighting ALONGSIDE them. Rosalina AND Luma. THE Ice ClimberS. It shows teamwork, and as Rosalina loves the Lumas, the Lumas love her.

And even then, if she just used things from Mario Galaxy, her moveset wouldn't be as unique or fun, would it?
 

guedes the brawler

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Yes, they cancel each other out. Because they're on two opposite sides of the main conflict. They are still far more important to the plot of the game, and how the story plays out, than the gems are.

In the Future Past, the gems are important. In Awakening, they are literally just macguffins. They are shiny, do-nothing trinkets that you have to have because reasons. There is nothing to them. If you need proof of this, just watch the scene where the gemstones are kept far away from the battle because no one wanted to tempt fate, and yet Grima still comes back because he doesn't need them. They're just a plot element to chase down, and they contribute almost nothing to the story.

And, again, story is not everything. Gameplay is incredibly important (especially when considering Smash Bros.), and Chrom is so much more bland than Robin in that regard.
I think you are mixing up things here. all i said is that the FE/gemstones are the things the plot revolves around, since they are tied to grima's awakening, and the FE is the thing that drives the plot forward (if Validar had the fe from day 1, he wouldn't need to manipulate Gangrel, Walhart and Robin into doing stuff for him, which makes up about 80% of the game's story). they don't contribute to the story directly because the game gives a bigger focus to defeating the enemy commander. The objective of the Gangrel arc is played to be "defeat Gangrel', when its actually "don't let the rat get the Fire emblem". Why did Validar need to manipulate Gangrel into beating Walhart? To keep him away from the fe and to get the 2 Valmese gemstones... all of this, of course, because the guy forgot he could just teleport and steal all 4 gems and the Fe itself.

time travel is important too, but it isn't the main element of the story: it's not moving the plot around, it's doing the exact inverse: trying to change the plot. Lucina's interference only allowed things to wrap up faster due to speeding up the wars, and giving robin the idea to pull that bait and switch with Basilio (something that if he were more cautious or had more time to think, could've been done without Lucina interfering)

robin's ties to grima? They don't impact the story til the last chapter. Validar didn't need Robin as the vessel, he jsut kept messing with Robin because robin is meant to be the player and they were trying to make us feel more important than we are he is evil. There was no need to mess with Robin in chapter 13 (unless that was when Validar put a mind control hex on Robin, or something), and due to Validar forgetting his teleport shenanigans, he also didn't need to mind control robin into stealing the Fe (which is his major objective) or betraying Chrom (whom he could've killed anytime). the importance he had due to this was completely ignored because Lucina brought Grima with her, no need for Vessel, no need for Robin. And he only had importance on the last chapter because Grima was power-hungry and evil/dumb (why try to get mor epower from Robin if he coudl've just done a barrel roll and killed everyone who had a shot at stopping him?)

Yes, story is not everything, but a game meant to be a celebration of multiple nitnedo franchises shouldn't put a Deutoragonist before a Protagonist. Would you be fine if Injustice: Gods among us had Nightwing playable but Batman was relegated to his super? it's wrong for the exact same reasons.

Stroy isn't everything, but Moveset Potential also isn't everything. To what use is having a unique moveset if people don't care about the character? it's what happened with Zelda, MGW, Olimar, R.o.b, Ness, Lucas, Mewtwo... people rarely play these guys and they are undoubtedly the most unique newcomers from their respective games. Their moveset and their character didn't appeal to the general public. Funnily enough 4 of them are mage-like characters, too.

People use Ike far more than they use olimar and ike is literally Link with no projectiles and brought NOTHING new to smash because his playstyle was already done. People initially liked ike because he was badass and had a big sword and cape.


Sakurai managed to convince most people that Moveset potential is the only thing that is important, but it simply isn't. Being the most important character in-line should be the top priority. Tingle would've been far more unique than the Zelda reps we got/could get. Waluigi has enough wacky stuff from the spin-offs to have a moveset more interesting than Rosalian, Jr and Toad TOGETHER. They could even be fun to play as too. But they aren't important enough to get in smash.

After importance, being a fun character to play as should've been the most important thing. Again, i bring the example of Ike: he added NOTHING to Brawl, but he was fun to play as; he looked like a badass, and he was important at the time. People like Characters that give the player feelings of empowerment due to either being too fast for the opponent to keep up, or Strong enough for they to finish things in few hits. Pikachu and Fox are consistently popular in smash for a reason. Defensive characters are unpopular for a reason. The whole melee vs brawl think illustrates this very well, too.

Being unique is an extra bonus, and is something all characters are capable of. comparatively to Robin, it might seem Chrom would've been nothing, but you do remember the List i made of all the stuff available to Chrom, don't you? It is foolish to deny Chrom had a good shot at being unique had the looks and attitude to make himself as popular and he was likely to have a fitting and liked playstyle backing him up.



I do hope Robin betrays my expectations and ends up being:

a) Fun and not that defensive
and
b) not ruining the metagame with Thunder camping.

i literally have no issue with him besides the above (as a magical character, i don't think i should worry about chaingrabbing) and the old importance issue. If he gets a major role compared to Chrom in a next FE and SMTxFe, then i'm fine with him even if i would've liked to play as Chrom better

That's not out of character. Rosalina is all about her Luma's and how she's motherly, yes, but she's not forcing them to fight FOR her, while she basically eats popcorn. She's fighting ALONGSIDE them. Rosalina AND Luma. THE Ice ClimberS. It shows teamwork, and as Rosalina loves the Lumas, the Lumas love her.

And even then, if she just used things from Mario Galaxy, her moveset wouldn't be as unique or fun, would it?
it shows teamwork, but what mother even brings her kids to fight with her? a bad mother that doesn't care about her kids.. something that Rosalina was shown to be the opposite. And it's only evne that much teamwork, Roslaina has command over the Luma's actions: it's a puppet to her.

and you care too much about being unique: if you are trampling over the character's traits and personality just for a gimmick, you are either taking the wrong gimmick or the wrong character (or both, seeing as Rosalina has no business being playable if neither Toad or Bowser Jr are playable)
 
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it shows teamwork, but what mother even brings her kids to fight with her? a bad mother that doesn't care about her kids.. something that Rosalina was shown to be the opposite. And it's only evne that much teamwork, Roslaina has command over the Luma's actions: it's a puppet to her.

and you care too much about being unique: if you are trampling over the character's traits and personality just for a gimmick, you are either taking the wrong gimmick or the wrong character (or both, seeing as Rosalina has no business being playable if neither Toad or Bowser Jr are playable)
Lumas aren't even real children. They love to fight with Rosalina, and they don't die anyways lol. And even then, if Rosalina has command over her Luma, doesn't that mean that the Luma loves to fight with Rosalina more? I mean, they're literally waiting for her response. They could get beat up but still be waiting, smiling. They don't care, as long as they're helping out their mother.
And even then, if you're arguing about how Rosalina is out of character, you must think that in Smash 64 having Mario and Luigi was out of character because no one would save Peach. It's just a game and probably not even canon lol.

In my opinion, it's not trampling over the character's traits and personality, but w/e.

Also, I said this once, I'll say it again, Rosalina is more fun and unique than any other Mario rep could EVER be. She deserved to be playable. I didn't want her in and I know this. I'm a huge Toad fan, but I still wouldn't give Rosalina up for Toad.
 
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Pokechu

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lol

she was in 3 main games of the series out of 20+, being playable in only 1 and has a notable role in only 2.
she was in about 15 spin-off games out of 100+

completely deserved to be in smash bros. the rest of your post is too much nonsense to be even worthy of an answer.
Toad/Bowser Jr.
another mario character. no special fighting abilities, besides the Shadow Mario but transformations are out.
brings no new archetype.

Rosalina
a magic goddess that has dimensions on her at any given time
brings the Puppeteer

which one has more potential for smash?

and also, how is my post too much nonsense? youre saying it's out of character for Rosy to fight with her Lumas. Well isn't it out of character for Mario to leave Peach alone? Isn't it wrong for Mario to stomp on the Princess he saves?

still didn't answer the luma part either. if the Lumas are perfectly content helping Rosy out on battles, what's so wrong? obv you must think that Peach using Toad is wrong then, if you think Rosy is out of character, right?

even IF she wasn't important, she was way more popular than Toad and Jr., probably even if theyre combined, and she was more unique than them.
 
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False Sense

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and also, how is my post too much nonsense? youre saying it's out of character for Rosy to fight with her Lumas. Well isn't it out of character for Mario to leave Peach alone? Isn't it wrong for Mario to stomp on the Princess he saves?
That's true. It's important to keep in mind that this is a fighting game, and a cross-over at that. A lot of characters are going to be doing things that don't really fit their characters. As it is, it's possible to have Mario try to punch Peach in the face while she tries to use one of her Toads as a human shield. That seems far more out of character than Rosalina fighting alongside one of her "children."
 

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Toad/Bowser Jr.
another mario character. no special fighting abilities, besides the Shadow Mario but transformations are out.
brings no new archetype.

Rosalina
a magic goddess that has dimensions on her at any given time
brings the Puppeteer

which one has more potential for smash?

and also, how is my post too much nonsense? youre saying it's out of character for Rosy to fight with her Lumas. Well isn't it out of character for Mario to leave Peach alone? Isn't it wrong for Mario to stomp on the Princess he saves?

still didn't answer the luma part either. if the Lumas are perfectly content helping Rosy out on battles, what's so wrong? obv you must think that Peach using Toad is wrong then, if you think Rosy is out of character, right?

even IF she wasn't important, she was way more popular than Toad and Jr., probably even if theyre combined, and she was more unique than them.
so much bias. if you truly think neither Toad nor Jr have anything noteworthy to bring to battle, you are simply delusional. there is enough material that is exclusive to both, and material that aren't exclusive but are simply unused in smash (such as multiple power-ups and abilities the current reps have but do not use, such as bowser spitting straight fireballs or use of mulitple power-ups) for them to be incredibly unique in the same vein as Villager, Megaman and MGW. and that is not even considering any smash adaptations they might gain, seeing as not a single move Rosalina brings to battle was actually seen before, used by her.

i repeat: bowser Jr's has about 3x appearances over rosalina and Toad has about 10x. do you truly think that with so many games they have no potential? Specially when
nothing Rosalina does in smash is canon? (though none of her abilities are too farfetched for the power level she seems to have; unlike, say, ike's eruption). your dedication to waifu is admirable.

And the same as i said for Chrom: potential shouldn't be
everything. In a game like smash, importance should've been the top priority; and them being a fun character (something Rosalina is likely to fail since she seems too defensive and technical for the average smasher to enjoy her as much as they would enjoy other archetypes) should come right afterwards: EVERYONE can be unique. sakurai made characters as bland as the Ice Climbers feel unique; if he says "no, i can't make X unique", he means "i'm too lazy for this **** right now, go away".

Mario has shown to leave Peach alone multiple times in main games. Biggest example of this being SM64 and Sunshine. Mario also had no qualms with exploding his princess with bo-bombs on mario kart, or ramming her into an electrical fence in strikers. or Stomping her on 3D world. Or punching her in Olympic Games. your point is inexistent

I do not think it's in-character for Peach to use Toad in that way, but the relationship she has with toads makes the whole thing more believable in context, though the method is still a bit OoC for her, but just as i explained what Mario can do to Peach in-games, Peach can do that with Toad too, so it's not that OoC. But then again, i'm not even sure that's a real toad, considering the green gas that comes out of it. my headcanon is that the thing is a stuffed toy. stuffed with poison mushrooms that get crushed on impact and release the gas... i can totally see Toadsworth giving her that for protection.

Rosalina's relationship with the Lumas is different than the relationships you are arguing against. As far as smash goes, Rosalina is not acting any differently than olimar. they are expendable soldiers, and neither characters seem to have any qualms with using them in-battle. if they die, there's always more.

Lumas liking to fight is something you can't say for sure. the fact that they "know how to fight" and never do anything on their own (even during a critical time such as the events where Mario gets his first grand star on SMg1) are very interesting, though. a certain someone is able to control where they go and how their move their limbs, controlling their mouths doesn't seem to be much of a stretch. and the psychological warfare the tactic brings is good, too. But who knows?

Rosalina was capable enough of being a fighter on her own merits. This whole puppeteer mechanic degrades the character and most likely the metagame, even if only her own (worst case scenario, Luma will be almost as exploitable as Nana; bad case scenario, it will be basically useless and rosalina's crappy defenses will ensure she will suffer the same fate of previous tall/light/floaty chars [zelda, mewtwo]). and it's not even that interesting since we had something similar with top level ICs ever since Melee.

And Popularity isn't and shouldn't ever be everything in smash. This kind of thinking would make Ghirahim be a better choice than Pig Ganon which is LAUGHABLE. Besides, the very subject of this thread (which we should get back at some point as "why newcomers that start with R are bad" has been going for far too long) invalidates this argument as Chrom was more popular than either Robin. Greninja also has this too, though it's not his fault that the newer pokemon games get less audience iirc.

Importance is (or should be) more important as far as characters go; franchises it's another story.

That's true. It's important to keep in mind that this is a fighting game, and a cross-over at that. A lot of characters are going to be doing things that don't really fit their characters. As it is, it's possible to have Mario try to punch Peach in the face while she tries to use one of her Toads as a human shield. That seems far more out of character than Rosalina fighting alongside one of her "children."
"Mario has shown to leave Peach alone multiple times in main games. Biggest example of this being SM64 and Sunshine. Mario also had no qualms with exploding his princess with bo-bombs on mario kart, or ramming her into an electrical fence in strikers. or Stomping her on 3D world. Or punching her in Olympic Games. your point is inexistent

I do not think it's in-character for Peach to use Toad in that way, but the relationship she has with toads makes the whole thing more believable in context, though the method is still a bit OoC for her, but just as i explained what Mario can do to Peach in-games, Peach can do that with Toad too, so it's not that OoC. But then again, i'm not even sure that's a real toad, considering the green gas that comes out of it. my headcanon is that the thing is a stuffed toy. stuffed with poison mushrooms that get crushed on impact and release the gas... i can totally see Toadsworth giving her that for protection.

Rosalina's relationship with the Lumas is different than the relationships you are arguing against. As far as smash goes, Rosalina is not acting any differently than olimar. they are expendable soldiers, and neither characters seem to have any qualms with using them in-battle. if they die, there's always more."




going back to Chrom for a bit, did i miss the update or we already know who is going to lead the movement in Opossum's stead? Como on iron fish, 'im waiting for you to help us here! Chrom won't be DLC by himself you lazy leader!
 
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IronFish

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I just thought of Robin being the McCoy to Chrom's Kirk

"Dammit I'm a tactician not a miracle worker"
*unit dies*
"He's dead Chrom"
Of course Frederick could be Spock.
 

Skyblade12

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I just thought of Robin being the McCoy to Chrom's Kirk

"Dammit I'm a tactician not a miracle worker"
*unit dies*
"He's dead Chrom"
Of course Frederick could be Spock.
Maybe your Robin isn't a miracle worker. :)

I like this idea, though. Fits well.
 

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so much bias. if you truly think neither Toad nor Jr have anything noteworthy to bring to battle, you are simply delusional. there is enough material that is exclusive to both, and material that aren't exclusive but are simply unused in smash (such as multiple power-ups and abilities the current reps have but do not use, such as bowser spitting straight fireballs or use of mulitple power-ups) for them to be incredibly unique in the same vein as Villager, Megaman and MGW. and that is not even considering any smash adaptations they might gain, seeing as not a single move Rosalina brings to battle was actually seen before, used by her.

i repeat: bowser Jr's has about 3x appearances over rosalina and Toad has about 10x. do you truly think that with so many games they have no potential? Specially when
nothing Rosalina does in smash is canon? (though none of her abilities are too farfetched for the power level she seems to have; unlike, say, ike's eruption). your dedication to waifu is admirable.

And the same as i said for Chrom: potential shouldn't be
everything. In a game like smash, importance should've been the top priority; and them being a fun character (something Rosalina is likely to fail since she seems too defensive and technical for the average smasher to enjoy her as much as they would enjoy other archetypes) should come right afterwards: EVERYONE can be unique. sakurai made characters as bland as the Ice Climbers feel unique; if he says "no, i can't make X unique", he means "i'm too lazy for this **** right now, go away".

Mario has shown to leave Peach alone multiple times in main games. Biggest example of this being SM64 and Sunshine. Mario also had no qualms with exploding his princess with bo-bombs on mario kart, or ramming her into an electrical fence in strikers. or Stomping her on 3D world. Or punching her in Olympic Games. your point is inexistent

I do not think it's in-character for Peach to use Toad in that way, but the relationship she has with toads makes the whole thing more believable in context, though the method is still a bit OoC for her, but just as i explained what Mario can do to Peach in-games, Peach can do that with Toad too, so it's not that OoC. But then again, i'm not even sure that's a real toad, considering the green gas that comes out of it. my headcanon is that the thing is a stuffed toy. stuffed with poison mushrooms that get crushed on impact and release the gas... i can totally see Toadsworth giving her that for protection.

Rosalina's relationship with the Lumas is different than the relationships you are arguing against. As far as smash goes, Rosalina is not acting any differently than olimar. they are expendable soldiers, and neither characters seem to have any qualms with using them in-battle. if they die, there's always more.

Lumas liking to fight is something you can't say for sure. the fact that they "know how to fight" and never do anything on their own (even during a critical time such as the events where Mario gets his first grand star on SMg1) are very interesting, though. a certain someone is able to control where they go and how their move their limbs, controlling their mouths doesn't seem to be much of a stretch. and the psychological warfare the tactic brings is good, too. But who knows?

Rosalina was capable enough of being a fighter on her own merits. This whole puppeteer mechanic degrades the character and most likely the metagame, even if only her own (worst case scenario, Luma will be almost as exploitable as Nana; bad case scenario, it will be basically useless and rosalina's crappy defenses will ensure she will suffer the same fate of previous tall/light/floaty chars [zelda, mewtwo]). and it's not even that interesting since we had something similar with top level ICs ever since Melee.

And Popularity isn't and shouldn't ever be everything in smash. This kind of thinking would make Ghirahim be a better choice than Pig Ganon which is LAUGHABLE. Besides, the very subject of this thread (which we should get back at some point as "why newcomers that start with R are bad" has been going for far too long) invalidates this argument as Chrom was more popular than either Robin. Greninja also has this too, though it's not his fault that the newer pokemon games get less audience iirc.

Importance is (or should be) more important as far as characters go; franchises it's another story.



"Mario has shown to leave Peach alone multiple times in main games. Biggest example of this being SM64 and Sunshine. Mario also had no qualms with exploding his princess with bo-bombs on mario kart, or ramming her into an electrical fence in strikers. or Stomping her on 3D world. Or punching her in Olympic Games. your point is inexistent

I do not think it's in-character for Peach to use Toad in that way, but the relationship she has with toads makes the whole thing more believable in context, though the method is still a bit OoC for her, but just as i explained what Mario can do to Peach in-games, Peach can do that with Toad too, so it's not that OoC. But then again, i'm not even sure that's a real toad, considering the green gas that comes out of it. my headcanon is that the thing is a stuffed toy. stuffed with poison mushrooms that get crushed on impact and release the gas... i can totally see Toadsworth giving her that for protection.

Rosalina's relationship with the Lumas is different than the relationships you are arguing against. As far as smash goes, Rosalina is not acting any differently than olimar. they are expendable soldiers, and neither characters seem to have any qualms with using them in-battle. if they die, there's always more."




going back to Chrom for a bit, did i miss the update or we already know who is going to lead the movement in Opossum's stead? Como on iron fish, 'im waiting for you to help us here! Chrom won't be DLC by himself you lazy leader!
uh, lol wat

i didnt support rosy, i supported toad
i don't have plans to main her anyways

all i know is

rosalina = most unique mario rep
toad/jr = not.

rosalina = popular
toad/jr = not.

rosalina = in smash
toad/jr = not.

ok.

I've played more than most of the Mario games, and I can say that Rosy sure she wasn't as important as Toad/Jr, but I don't think that importance should always come first.

this is my opinion, and I respect yours, but you really shouldn't be going around saying "_____ shouldve gotten in over ____, ___ is SUCH a waste when we have ____."
 
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guedes the brawler

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Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
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Rafabrawl
you keep believing that. Because, say, getting Tingle over Pig Ganon would be alright; or getting Caterpie instead of Mewtwo; or getting Anthony higgs over Ridley. but whatever.

Does anybody have any ideas on how to make the Lightsphere/Argent into a viable weapon? it would be super awkward to have Chrom using the other gems as his default move?
 
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