Any chance of the 4 locked characters being released in next patch?

[Chzrm3]

I'm honestly really hyped for Yoshi. I think, out of all of the characters in Smash history, Yoshi has been the one that has been crapped on the most in terms of knockback and recovery. I'm really interested to see what magic the PMBR can bestow upon the green dino that will make him as viable as everyone else in PM.

Yeah! I have a feeling they've given him some really nice new stuff, I can't wait to see what it is.

There are so many interesting things Yoshi has - the unique shield, the double-jump recovery, those crazy egg-toss mechanics... if they can make those things cohesive instead of just crazy, Yoshi could be a nasty character. : D

 

[Medaka444]

I expect that they're going to change the Egg Shield so that Yoshi can jump out of it. They might go so far as to make it a regular shield in all but appearance, but I highly doubt that. His Egg Toss will almost certainly be brought back to its Melee mechanics. Maybe Yoshi will roll faster. His may recovery may not improve much, unless you count Brawl's slight Up-B hop.

 

[HMWii22]

 

[DrinkingFood]

...that's already been discussed, devs have access to the entire roster for playtesting purposes, and occasionally they stream with that build.

@medaka, changing yoshi's shield isn't that obvious. With the exception of the lack of ability to jump, yoshi has the best shield in melee- it can't be poked, it suffers less shield stun, the first few frames actually have invincibility, a faster shield drop animation, and it's impossible to tell if he's light shielding or full shielding or anywhere in between until he is hit. Of course, the lack of OoS jump makes it in the worst in the game overall. But to just straight up add in a jump OoS option for him instantly makes his shield ridiculous. It has to be treated some other way. Either completely revert his shield to a standard shield, or lightly buff everything else he can do OoS.

 

[1MachGO]

^If that is real, its a weird layout. It would make a lot more sense to have ROB and ICs next to G&W since they are all "classics". FE is a big franchise with many reps so it shouldn't be put at the bottom. ROB being put where he is also screams: "WELP! Looks like ROB fits here!"

Kirby's row should be reordered as Marth, Roy, Ike, Pit, Kirby, MK, D3, Samus, ZSS (Kirby in the middle is a good homage to Melee)

Last row should be Mr. G&W, ROB, ICs, Snake, Sonic, and random. Olimar then gets put where ICs currently are

 

[splat]

^If that is real, its a weird layout. It would make a lot more sense to have ROB and ICs next to G&W since they are all "classics". FE is a big franchise with many reps so it shouldn't be put at the bottom. ROB being put where he is also screams: "WELP! Looks like ROB fits here!"

Kirby's row should be reordered as Marth, Roy, Ike, Pit, Kirby, MK, D3, Samus, ZSS (Kirby in the middle is a good homage to Melee)

Last row should be Mr. G&W, ROB, ICs, Snake, Sonic, and random. Olimar then gets put where ICs currently are

Conflicting, much? You want Kirby in the middle as a homage to Melee, but want to move the Fire Emblem characters from the bottom row - where they were in Melee? Next to Mr. Game & Watch, like in this roster?

Also, I never really understood why people group Mr. Game & Watch, ROB and the Ice Climbers. I can understand G&W and ROB, as they're both hardware-related, but the Ice Climbers are simply characters from a game. If you were to group those three, you might as well include Pit, who was in the same boat as the ICs before Uprising (which we shouldn't really count, as it released after Brawl).

 

[1MachGO]

Conflicting, much? You want Kirby in the middle as a homage to Melee, but want to move the Fire Emblem characters from the bottom row - where they were in Melee? Next to Mr. Game & Watch, like in this roster?

Also, I never really understood why people group Mr. Game & Watch, ROB and the Ice Climbers. I can understand G&W and ROB, as they're both hardware-related, but the Ice Climbers are simply characters from a game. If you were to group those three, you might as well include Pit, who was in the same boat as the ICs before Uprising (which we shouldn't really count, as it released after Brawl).

I don't seem to understand your point. My proposal follows this logic: modern franchises are grouped together while a "classic" and "guest" group hold the bottom. Going out of the way to pay homage (Kirby in the middle) is a liberty permitted because it doesn't sacrifice the logic of the CSS. G&W being next to the FE franchise feels like the opposite; homage in favor of logic. I simply cannot discern why FE and ROB were placed where they were placed. Even if you consider ICs only loosely related to G&W and ROB, the thought process is still easily understood.

Also, not recognizing Kid Icarus as a modern franchise kind of goes out the window when there is a Skyloft stage.

 

[Medaka444]

@1MachGO: In Melee, G&W and Ice Climbers were nowhere near each other. In Brawl, R.O.B. and the Climbers touched, but not G&W. Each was treated as their own franchise, like other independent characters, with no thought as to their age. Additionally, while Brawl grouped fighters vertically, Melee did in fact put Pokemon and FE fighters at the bottom. You're arguing for arrangements that have no precedent simply because of personal preference, and acting as if this is common sense.

 

[1MachGO]

@Medaka444

I see where you are coming from, but you are trying to point out that my viewpoints are arbitrary when they aren't. To clarify, I am reacting to the ideas behind this CSS specifically. The base of my argument isn't to follow the rules of vBrawl CSS or Melee CSS, its simply to apply rules to this one.

Consider: There are 42 characters in the CSS (this includes random). Whoever made this arrangement made the conscious choice to have it be 4 rows with 9, and 1 row with 6, despite the number 42 being easily divisible into a 3x14 arrangement or 6x7 arrangement. Now, the 6x7 would've looked cramped, but 3x14 definitely would have worked. However, for whatever reason, they decided to go with this layout. I am getting the impression that its supposed to be melee esqued, but they could have easily achieved that with a 3x11 and 1x9 (a layout that which have more efficiently used space on the screen)

So when I see the arrangement in the picture, I am trying to understand what was the decision making behind it. There are definitely other choices, so WHY this one? Making the CSS like this creates a visual dichotomy; the 4x9's are the top heavy block being differentiated from the bottom row. Why needlessly bring attention to a bottom row if it isn't going to represent something, right? So my thought process became: the block of 4x9's should represent Nintendo and consist of all their modern franchises, the smaller row will then be a guest row; a row that says "Hey, we aren't usually around but we're in this game" row.

TL;DR: My views are entirely what I believe to be aesthetically pleasing for this arrangement w/ Modern Nintendo comprising the 4x9 rows and Classics/Guests comprising the special row. However, if we want to argue fact, a 3x14 or 3x11 w/ a 1x9 is a better layout because it doesn't create massive margins and would probably allow the icons to be larger.

 

[Sumodude-S51]

The maximum tiles per row is 10. You can't have 14 or 11 tiles in one row. The maximum amount of rows is 5.

Frankly, though, as someone with OCD, I spend way too much time wondering what the final CSS will look like. I need to stop. Or I need to trust the PMBR a bit more. I mean, they sure didn't screw up the Stage Selection Screen. That thing functions better than anything I probably would have thought of, and it is still the first "whoa" moment I hear when I show PM to new people...

 

[1MachGO]

Really? If that's the case, then I suppose it can't be helped. The character arrangement doesn't really matter if the initial reason was necessity.

 

[Viceversa96]

So I love project M. I'm a late comer to the party so to speak, just got PM working recently, but I was wondering if in the next patch we'll be seeing the release of Olimar, Samus, Yoshi, and the infamous flying pink squid Kirby. I would love to have Olimar in the roster again, and the adding of Mewtwo and Roy is awesome, but I honestly can't wait to have those last 4 characters back into the fray as soon as they figure ways to implement them successfully. I know there is a lot to the process of reworking and balancing the characters, and I'm just thankful that Project M is a real thing. Anyways, Let me know what you guys think!

If they don't lock this I'll be happy....But they will sooooooooooooooooo

 

[Burnsy]

^If that is real, its a weird layout. It would make a lot more sense to have ROB and ICs next to G&W since they are all "classics". FE is a big franchise with many reps so it shouldn't be put at the bottom. ROB being put where he is also screams: "WELP! Looks like ROB fits here!"

Kirby's row should be reordered as Marth, Roy, Ike, Pit, Kirby, MK, D3, Samus, ZSS (Kirby in the middle is a good homage to Melee)

Last row should be Mr. G&W, ROB, ICs, Snake, Sonic, and random. Olimar then gets put where ICs currently are

Keep in mind that there may more characters added through the clone engine, and therefore there is a good chance that this is not necessarily what the final character select screen will look like once they are added and necessitates some shifting around of he select screen.

 

[9bit]

The maximum tiles per row is 10. You can't have 14 or 11 tiles in one row. The maximum amount of rows is 5.

Frankly, though, as someone with OCD, I spend way too much time wondering what the final CSS will look like. I need to stop. Or I need to trust the PMBR a bit more. I mean, they sure didn't screw up the Stage Selection Screen. That thing functions better than anything I probably would have thought of, and it is still the first "whoa" moment I hear when I show PM to new people...

If you like, you can come in here and throw around some suggestions. I also spend way too much time thinking about the final CSS heh

 

[666blaziken]

I wonder how epic the video for a samus trailer will be. PMBR will probably have the "the character you have all been waiting for" quote on it because of all the demand.

 

[Vashimus]

I wonder how epic the video for a samus trailer will be. PMBR will probably have the "the character you have all been waiting for" quote on it because of all the demand.

lol It'd be like the turbo video intros. Shows a crap-ton of comments relating to "Where's Samus" in the beginning rapid-fire.

 

[XalchemistX]

I wonder how epic the video for a samus trailer will be. PMBR will probably have the "the character you have all been waiting for" quote on it because of all the demand.

is going to be super mega special awesome! I hope she gets announced in the next update.

I miss comboing by super wavedashing with a charged shot

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

is going to be super mega special awesome! I hope she gets announced in the next update.

I miss comboing by super wavedashing with a charged shot

I hope she is revealed in zss`s turbo tuesday.

 

[Paradoxium]

Zzs combos into her final smash and then you see samus and the letters say "Introducing Samus!"
im getting hyped just thinking about it

 

[XalchemistX]

I hope she is revealed in zss`s turbo tuesday.

I have a feeling Lucario or Ness will be tomorrow's turbo video because of the frequent requests in the youtube comments.

It would be nice if she gets announced in Thanksgiving. The trailer will start off with the smash characters around a dinner table, about to slice open a cooked turkey that Peach just baked and brought to the table. Wario gets impatient and is about to swallow the turkey, until Samus morph ball dashes out and there is scraps of turkey everywhere. The camera circles around Samus as it zooms in. Samus takes off her helmet, blows off the turkey scrap on her arm cannon, and says while smirking "Is that all?". Then the kicka** combo video starts.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I have a feeling Lucario or Ness will be tomorrow's turbo video because of the frequent requests in the youtube comments.

It would be nice if she gets announced in Thanksgiving. The trailer will start off with the smash characters around a dinner table, about to slice open a cooked turkey that Peach just baked and brought to the table. Wario gets impatient and is about to swallow the turkey, until Samus morph ball dashes out and there is scraps of turkey everywhere. The camera circles around Samus as it zooms in. Samus takes off her helmet, blows off the turkey scrap on her arm cannon, and says while smirking "Is that all?". Then the kicka** combo video starts.

that sounds more like something smash in the family would do.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

@medaka, changing yoshi's shield isn't that obvious. With the exception of the lack of ability to jump, yoshi has the best shield in melee- it can't be poked, it suffers less shield stun, the first few frames actually have invincibility, a faster shield drop animation, and it's impossible to tell if he's light shielding or full shielding or anywhere in between until he is hit. Of course, the lack of OoS jump makes it in the worst in the game overall. But to just straight up add in a jump OoS option for him instantly makes his shield ridiculous. It has to be treated some other way. Either completely revert his shield to a standard shield, or lightly buff everything else he can do OoS.

To add to this, yoshi can actually jump a couple frames between the time in which he inputs his shield, and when it actually comes out. Its called "parry", or "super shielding", and it gives him all the options the rest of the cast have out of their shields. Giving him a traditional jump Oos (imo) would take away all the depth from his shield, in favor of something that does the same thing, with less thought and technical skill.

Btw, here is a thread detailing the specifics of parrying, its actually very interesting. http://smashboards.com/threads/revolutionizing-yoshi-parrying-aka-supershielding-new-vid.263122/

 

[MLGF]

that sounds more like something smash in the family would do.

Brawl In The Family.
And how dare you get the name wrong of the greatest web comic series ever.
EVER.

 

[PastLink]

Yo you don't want Olimar, trust me.

Nobody does.

but i wanna see olimar burnsy

 

[Burnsy]

Sure, you think that now.

 

[Chzrm3]

@medaka, changing yoshi's shield isn't that obvious. With the exception of the lack of ability to jump, yoshi has the best shield in melee- it can't be poked, it suffers less shield stun, the first few frames actually have invincibility, a faster shield drop animation, and it's impossible to tell if he's light shielding or full shielding or anywhere in between until he is hit. Of course, the lack of OoS jump makes it in the worst in the game overall. But to just straight up add in a jump OoS option for him instantly makes his shield ridiculous. It has to be treated some other way. Either completely revert his shield to a standard shield, or lightly buff everything else he can do OoS.

Is the concern that he would be too campy with a shield that strong? I definitely understand that, if it's the case - but if it's more concern about him becoming really good with that option, I'd like to see how that'd play out. Yoshi was such an interesting character, and it felt like he had a lot of good stuff going on that never cohesively came together. Maybe a change as simple as that could make him a really strong pick.

 

[Trinsic]

I wonder how epic the video for a samus trailer will be. PMBR will probably have the "the character you have all been waiting for" quote on it because of all the demand.

I can see it now.
The comments asking "Where is Samus?" plastered over the screen.
Metroid music playing over the intro of the video, building in tension.
ZSS gets the Smash Ball.
She activates her final smash...

And then it cuts to Pichu and the trailer is about him.

 

[Giygacoal]

I can see it now.
The comments asking "Where is Samus?" plastered over the screen.
Metroid music playing over the intro of the video, building in tension.
ZSS gets the Smash Ball.
She activates her final smash...

And then it cuts to Pichu and the trailer is about him.

They could continue it with yet another tease. When Samus is finally shown off for real, at the end of her trailer, there's a pause in the music...then you hear a few notes of Ridley's theme... then that heavy thud sound.

 

[DrinkingFood]

HAHAHAHAHA no
ridley's not getting in
he's still too big, haven't you played SSE

 

[Trinsic]

They could continue it with yet another tease. When Samus is finally shown off for real, at the end of her trailer, there's a pause in the music...then you hear a few notes of Ridley's theme... then that heavy thud sound.

Then they follow up with Turbo Pichu fighting Ridley in SSE for Turbo Tuesday.

 

[Giygacoal]

HAHAHAHAHA no
ridley's not getting in
he's still too big, haven't you played SSE

It's definitely possible to make a convincing downsized Ridley. His limbs might have to be proportionally thicker of course, not that it would make too much of a bother. Balance would be a "bigger" issue (lol) than strictly his size, though I can already think of a few checks that may or may not be feasible.
(Not that this is relevant, but Metroid 1 Ridley looked a lot smaller and completely different.)

Maybe something like these (size pretty decent; just needs a major redesign)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5s9HwnGMAg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P91Qacg0afQ

or a size like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyvWCMZ4s60&list=PLF7E4553594A4E3A8&index=4

 

[Generically Epic]

honestly, i think they should fix everything about kirby except for his B. Then, patch his one b move when everyone else's Bs are done right before the release.

 

[MVP]

HAHAHAHAHA no
ridley's not getting in
he's still too big, haven't you played SSE

as much as i disagree with this, i think the reason and only reason why ridley isn't coming to PM is cause he's already a boss in SSE.

but that being said, i want another metroid character

 

[turtletank]

Bring Adam into Project M.

99:1 matchup vs Samus

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

honestly, i think they should fix everything about kirby except for his B. Then, patch his one b move when everyone else's Bs are done right before the release.

So your genius suggestion is that they take away Kirby`s most defining move (until the final release) just so that they can have him in the game? I don`t think anyone here would want Kirby to come out without his B move.

 

[uCooL]

Just put in olimar and be done with it, we dont need cancer like yoshi or kirby

he hath returned! The troll king!

 

[Vashimus]

Bring Adam into Project M.

99:1 matchup vs Samus

Hey, Strong Bad is a good player, but the DK:Samus matchup isn't THAT brutal.

Kappa

 

[UberMario]

I'd like to see Yoshi to be somewhere between his abilities in 64 and Brawl Minus: a speedy combo tank who, while he has excellent jumping and is decently heavy, can not rely on his upB recovery. It'd be a far more interesting and unique role in my opinion than what Melee Yoshi offered.

I'm also curious as to how they'll change the Ice Climbers. Not having that ridiculous sideB ledge-grab issue and improved assistance AI by themselves will improve them quite a bit.

Kirby I fear will either need to have his copying ability turned into the Throw Kirby inhale (where he immediately places them over his head and can throw them in ways different from his Melee/Brawl throws) or Mewtwo and Lucario/Marth and Roy will have to give the same copy ability unless they can do some serious voodoo to make additional hats work.

Samus I hope will get her Ice Beam in some form (never really understood why Sakurai ignores this iconic weapon) and that Olimar has at least some noises when he attacks . . . . he felt so silent in Brawl.

 

[MLGF]

Well, I think it's physics that has prevented their debut so far.
...although if it's balance, I know exactly what to do.

Give them shines.
All of them.
Yoshis bad? Give him a shine!
Samus' smart bombs give her a stupid recovery? Give her a shine!
Olimar's super frames on his down B are too OP? Give him a shi- oh wait...

 

[Ace55]

I'd like to see Yoshi to be somewhere between his abilities in 64 and Brawl Minus: a speedy combo tank who, while he has excellent jumping and is decently heavy, can not rely on his upB recovery. It'd be a far more interesting and unique role in my opinion than what Melee Yoshi offered.

I don't have much experience with 64 or Brawl- Yoshi but Melee Yoshi is probably my favorite Melee character to watch. Not so much to play against though (and I've played against him a lot).

Besides, when they release him I should finally have someone to play PM with again on a regular basis.

Personally looking forward to Samus the most.