An introductory look at Wavebouncing/B-Sticking - video

[Team Giza]

edit: nvm, was mentioned in another thread

 

[TwinkleToes]

You guys, don't bother switching your control stick. I guess I really can't repeat myself enough with this, but you can do this without any fancy configuring.

 

[Tomanator33]

I have tried this with fox and it works decently with his shine, but I have also discovered if I slowly DI backward and then Down B but have it tilted back ward his shine comes out and cancels his downward momentum when it comes out but it also pushes him back a bit and he gains a little hight. But since his shine cancels his DI you cant do it twice very quickly. It can be done easier with the C stick set to B attacks but because it randomly does other things, the C stick, I keep it on smash.

 

[eliter1]

Nice, exactly the kind of think i joined the forums for.

 

[orintemple]

This seems like a must for Lucas and maybe good for Marth and Pikachu. Lucario could also get use from this if his sideB proves to be useful in that situation. Otherwise You should just stick to your regular Cstick smashing. I know I will, it would just be too wierd to change, plus doing aerials without being able to kinda stay back in the opposite direction sucks.

 

[Mr.E]

No more "intentional" than Wavedashing was I'm willing to bet, but that's another argument altogether.

Anyway, do take note you sacrifice aerial precision by putting Specials on your C-Stick. It's a lot easier to do fly-by uair/dair with the C-Stick and you lose some precision in spacing or sweet-spotting fair/bair. I'm not sure these sacrifices are worthwhile for any character other than Lucas and possibly Pikachu, who can use it for very strong defensive Thunder technique. Zelda gets a huge benefit for Din's Fire, but does she really want to lose the pinpoint precision necessary to kill with her lightning kicks? Dedede and Olimar gain safety in projectile-spamming, but other than that you don't see much use for anyone else. I don't know Olimar well enough to say how important it is for him or how big a deal it is to lose regular aerial precision, but Dedede has a good short-hopped dair and his bair is incredibly good in general -- however, a wavebouncing Dee Toss is ridiculously safe in every way possible.

Losing the quick-smash capability can be remedied simply by getting used to the regular Smash-A control whether or not you want to charge it, so I really don't want to consider that a major downside. The hit to your regular aerial game, however, leads me to believe you won't find much use for changing your control scheme like that but for those few characters mentioned previously. Possibly Marth too, since his Sword Dance is actually good now, but you lose some spacing capability on his fair. Link and Toon Link's Boomerangs, perhaps, but Toon Link's air game is so strong it's not worth losing C-Stick aerials and nobody cares about regular Link.

Wavebouncing is also a silly name, but with its obvious similarities to the Wavedashing of old I can understand where it came from. (Really, it's just like an aerial wavedash.) B-Sticking is a more "friendly" term, so to speak, but (1) That could simply refer to customizing the controls that way and (2) we could find a way in the future to do it without putting Specials on the Gamecube controller's C-Stick.

Sadly, Lucas looked like he was shaping up to be the character I wanted to main but I really don't want to have to get used to a custom control scheme for only one character. >:/ So I must live without this technique myself, or just go with Ike or Toon Link instead... Yeah, just my own little rant here.

This is an important development because it introduces the idea of different control setups which adds another layer to the strategy of the game.

I don't think it's fair at all that some techniques can only be performed by a specific control scheme on a specific controller. Choosing your control scheme (and even controller) should be about comfort and ease of play, not "choose which set of advanced techs you'd like to be able to perform."

You guys, don't bother switching your control stick. I guess I really can't repeat myself enough with this, but you can do this without any fancy configuring.

Ease of use. In fact, I don't think it is possible with the standard control scheme since it's physically impossible to push forward (for side-B) and backwards (for bodily momentum) at the same time. Even if it is, it will still be far, far easier to use this "B-Sticking" control scheme to do it, kinda like how the C-Stick has a hard time doing Neutral-B attacks.

 

[Tagxy]

Twinkletoes has said this twice now, but you can do this without setting special to the c-stick. All you have to do is push backwards while you use the special (sometimes special right after you press backwards.)

However, there is still a little application for this. For instance, with pikachu's thunder you have to press backwards first then down-b to get the backwards momentum and do the thunder. With this, the backwards momentum comes as soon as you use thunder, which is pretty nice.

As Mr. E said, not switching your c-stick for smashes is a poor excuse, since you can do anything on a regular smash without a c-stick. The true hit comes with aerial DI, it's humanely impossible to push the analog stick in two different directions, so the c-stick definitely helps with that.

This does become a bit more practical with pikachu though. Pikachu's Quick Attack Cancel gives a solid reason to move the c-stick to special already, this gives another reason to do so.

 

[Serpit]

Since there's a lot of naming discussion going on, I'll throw my idea in as well.
Recoil Specials. It's simple and descriptive. Considering this technique is not exclusive to the "B-Stick", it makes sense as well. Just my two cents.

Also, since I don't have Brawl right now, I can test this - Can you still do a running Up-Smash without the C-Stick?

 

[Mienaikage]

I think I've figured out why B-sticking works. Basically, any B move used in the game can be flipped to go in the opposite direction for a split second. If you go into practice mode, do any B move on the ground, then hit the opposite direction you're facing as soon as you use it, you should notice your character clearly flip round.

Now when this is done in the air, not only is your characters move flipped, but so is your characters momentum. (It is actually possible to do B-sticking without your c-stick set to specials, but you have to have pretty fast fingers)

So yes, it is possible to B-stick without an actual B-stick, but your fingers are going to suffer.

Also, yes Serpit, it is possible to do a running up-smash, you just hold the stick diagonally up.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I'm wondering if changing your control setup will even be allowed in most tournaments. If not then at least this is a cool idea and can be used for casual matches. Personally I have been maining Zamus and I think this works real well for her. Her forward B is one of her best kill moves, and this allows you to space it better, which is nice. I also wouldn't really miss her quick smashes since the only one I ever really use is the down smash on occasions. However, as was said earlier, losing c-stick aerials does kinda suck.

 

[SothE700k]

You can always set up different names and controller configurations for different characters.

"B-sticking". I like it. Gotta give this a try, seeing as I like Lucas.

 

[kooky]

Hey guys, seems like you can use b-sticking without b on the stick^^
I know it sounds funny, but watch this video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JhCkZEX3s-A
After he explains down forward backwards knockback of pikachu, he introduces a technique called "fake thunder" (around 3:08). it looks EXACTLY the same like the wavebounce thunder of pikachu, he even explains how you do this with your control stick. Maybe someone tests this (i don't have brawl yet) first with pikachu and then with other characters. B-sticking IS cool, but i personally don't want to sacrifice c-stick smashes, so if you could do b-sticking without b-stick it would be great^^

 

[Wyvern]

I was just messing around with this control scheme, and I found something interesting about Pokemon Trainer. You mentioned in the video that Charizard's Rock Smash has a fairly strong wavebounce, but it's possible to make it MUCH stronger. When you do the technique normally, he sort of winds back a little bit and then thrusts forward for the attack itself. But if, as soon as the attack starts, you immediately slam the control stick backwards, Charizard will go hurtling backwards, with no forward lunge whatsoever. And, of course, anyone who tries to chase you gets a face-full of gravel. I haven't tried it in an actual match yet, but it seems like it ought to be useful for something. The trick is making sure that you don't reverse the control stick until the move starts...otherwise you'll just do a normal Rock Smash in the wrong direction.

Ivysaur can do this as well with Razor Leaf, but the effect isn't nearly as drastic, and I feel like it slows me down a lot compared to just standing still and spamming it. Maybe alternating between wavebounced Razor Leaves and regular grounded ones could be useful, or maybe I just don't have the timing quite right yet.

I'm not sure if any other characters can further alter their momentum in this way or not. I know that it DOESN'T work with Lucas, Lucario, or Zelda...they do their crazy-long recoils regardless of where you point the control stick, and none of the other random characters I tried seem to have any effect either.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Kooky, warbL posted something to that effect in the Pika forums, and that basically lead to the discovery that b and down b moves could be used without re configuring.

Mr. E, it's a lot easier to smash the controller in one direction and smash it in the exact opposite direction in 2 frames than you seem to be implying. I see no reason to sacrifice your a-move c-stick for a technique that just takes some practice to get down. Logically, if you're going to play as a character that really needs it, you're going to practice the move a lot anyways right?

 

[yoshii]

I really think this "wavebouncing" as you call it is very interesting. ( I like the name btw)

 

[DevinD]

i agree with twinkle toes. after a little bit of testing ive figure out exactly what "wavebouncing" is. i was puzzled at first because with marth if you attempt the wavebounce for his side b you MUST be holding the control stick forward while you hit c stick back. which got me to thinking: as has been discussed, all specials can be reversed if you quickly smash the control stick in the opposite direction as you perform them. by holding the control stick forward, what you are essentially doing is this: doing a side special backwards and the by holding the control stick forward it automatically reverses your the special you performed with the c stick, which results in this bouncing. i have been practicing this technique and can now very easily use marths side b w/ this "bounce" w/out ever having to us the cstick. it is ridiculously simple.

 

[kooky]

Kooky, warbL posted something to that effect in the Pika forums, and that basically lead to the discovery that b and down b moves could be used without re configuring.

Sry i didn't know that it was mentioned yet.
But another thing: If it is possible to use wavebounce without re configuring by tilting the control stick a fancy way, did someone test already using the remapped stick AND that fancy controller movement? Maybe like this you could double the bounce effect of the moves!
(kind of the charizard thingy posted above).
I would really like to know if that works.

 

[DevinD]

Sry i didn't know that it was mentioned yet.
But another thing: If it is possible to use wavebounce without re configuring by tilting the control stick a fancy way, did someone test already using the remapped stick AND that fancy controller movement? Maybe like this you could double the bounce effect of the moves!
(kind of the charizard thingy posted above).
I would really like to know if that works.

i just testing it. VERY good suggestion. i tested this with marths side b, and the result is you get the momentum from both the back movement AND when you reverse it forward again. what basically happens is marth pulls back that little bit and then lunges back forward with the attack. great mindgame possibilities w/ this!

 

[Taymond]

Well, this is certainly an interesting new set of possibilities to tinker with. I've played around with b-sticking myself after reading this for a while. I just want to note a move or two that you glossed over in the videos, just for the sake of completion:

DK's neutral, while not charged, reverses his direction, similar to Ganon and Falcon. Fully charged, though, his neutral does get some noticeable effect. Fox's laser works, as well. Peach's neutral does receive some backwards momentum with this technique. As you assumed, Ice Climbers' down B works, as well. Dedede's down and neutrals both work. Bowser's neutral works. Toon Link's neutral does work, as expected, and his up B does actually get some reverse momentum, as well. It pretty much forces the move to go straight up. Which.. isn't particularly notable. Rob's up-B, same case. Olimar's up and down work, not that it matters.

That about covers it. Other than that, I'd just say my vote's probably on b-sticking. I honestly can't imagine a more descriptive name. If you're aware that you can change the controller configuration, you should, without effort, immediately be able to determine what b-sticking entails.

 

[DevinD]

of further note "wavebounces/bsticks" done w/out the cstick are no where near as pronounced. i can confirm them for neutral side and down b moves, though. tested w/ marth lucas and lucario, as they have been the most talked about. combining the techniques(as kooky) mentioned. has some interesting effects. but im too tired to go into detail. someone else should try them too :-)

 

[Rang Flash]

Bad thing about b-sticking is that you must sacrifice c-stick aeriels.

 

[IGN Forums]

cool thread!!......

 

[Neoteric]

neat



extra characters so i can make this post


btw, b-stick not wavebounce