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An Ex-PMDT's comment on recent news.

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Vigilante

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
1,813
Location
Quebec
The news of Project M ceasing development has come as a shock to me. I had been cut from the team due to being too busy with work and left on relatively good terms. I will not hide that I didn’t get along with everyone on the team, but for the most part, I have the utmost respect for the vast majority of the people there. I have not come here with answers. I do not have them. However, I come with good memories.



When I first became a smasher, I did not exactly make the best of impressions. I claimed that tier lists were fake and that wavedashing was dumb and should never be used. I acted high and mighty without the skills to back it up, likely as a result of my complete lack of self-confidence. I was young, but I also was curious at heart and went to a tournament. I got my posterior handed to me, but the young man who defeated me did not gloat as I expected he would. He commented on the unorthodox way I held my controller and called it awesome. He had some time before his next match and decided to sit down with me and play some more, conversing with me, giving me tips and cracking jokes. I don’t even remember that guy’s name, but he left a very strong impression on me. I went back to other small scale tournaments and I’d have other fun encounters like that. It was then that I realized that I wanted to be part of this community. While I was this twitchy, anxious and awkward kid that was heavily bullied elsewhere, this community accepted me and treated me as one of its own. They didn’t mind my quirks; they just enjoyed playing smash with me.



I played Melee for a long while, but later down the line, people started to angrily lash at me when I was seen using advanced techniques. I didn’t understand what was going on; I just played the way that I enjoyed playing. What was wrong with that? Others have begun to express that this was happening and several became frustrated with the constant insults and began to fight back. That may have been the community’s biggest mistake honestly as this has given the anti-competitive crowd ammunition to continue bullying people who just wanted to play games for competitive fun. Nevertheless, this frustration of dealing with these people had affected my enjoyment of anything Smash-related. I kept playing for a while, and then Brawl got announced. Now, keep in mind that yes, I do not enjoy Brawl. That hardly means that I disrespect Brawl players. I have many who are friends of mine and many whom I play Project M with. Nevertheless, my hopes were sky high. Melee was so fun, how could it go wrong? I bought the game day one and frankly, I tried to like it. I tried for over a year. I simply could not muster any enjoyment. Some of the anti-competitive types I spoke of joined the Brawl tourney side (and I want to stress that those were a minority of people in the Brawl community) and started adding animosity to the events. I wanted to have fun, not debate with angry prepubescent people about why I was a “pretendo” for enjoying Melee over Brawl. Tournaments are supposed to be a celebration of a beloved game, not a fan war. I quit the scene entirely.



Later, I learned of Project M. At first, I didn’t actually believe that it was going to go anywhere, but then I saw its implementation of L-canceling and wavedashing and I became cautiously optimistic. I started talking with the developers on the irc and they hit all of the right notes. They were clearly kind, passionate and brilliant people. I decided to boot Melee again for the first time in years and started playing with friends as I once had before my hiatus. In my discussion with the developers, I shared fun and interesting ideas, and ended up applying for the team. I got in and became pretty involved with early Lucario touch-ups, doing various tasks on a multitude of characters, discussing balance, moving on to various crazy projects like being acting out Snake’s forward smash in front of a bad webcam, drawing the rough draft of the turbo booster item in MS Paint, representing the game at tournaments, getting us on various media sites like IGN, responding to major interviews, and being a part of the Roy development team. Shadic was a very interesting leader to work under. He was open-minded to a lot of original ideas, and that was pretty motivating. I was hardly technically talented in coding. Many are much, much more deserving of praise for what they did, but I was part of this, and it was a great honour.



In my time there, I was going through very difficult times, and decided to travel even though I didn’t have much money to waste. I went to meet people like JCaesar, Ryoko, Thunderhorse, Yeroc, cmart, GHNeko, and several more, and I have never expected to be welcomed so warmly. They went out of their way to make me have a good time. Crazy hijinx happened, including one involving spicy chicken wings and me turning Thunderhorse’s bathroom into a smell hazard. In times when I was feeling lower than garbage, I had smiled for the first time in months. That’s the power of community. I even met friends like Androgynus, Billz, Pinkie_Pie and StarWaffle for example.



A lot of people kept asking me if giving us feedback actually mattered and if we actually did care about them. We did. I cannot stress that enough. Every time I went to an event, I would jot down notes about things people would say and bring them to the team, and at the very least, they were considered. Most of us at the very least cared about the community to the point where we’d argue over what was best and fairest to you guys. I won’t deny that we did this in parts for our own enjoyment, but never would I have thought that Project M would get so much love and support. Whenever I played Project M with people and saw them smile, I always felt warm inside, as if I played a small part in that happiness. Having someone hug me over Project M remains one of the sweetest moments I have experienced.



The future of this game is really in your hands. Remember that Melee was a grassroots movement and has existed as such for a very long time. If you keep holding tournaments and keep sharing the game and talking about it, there is no reason that it should die off. A competitive scene is only as solid as its community. You guys are strong, stronger than any community I know. It is fine to be sad right now, but you’re not about to give up. I just know it.



I do want to ask one thing of you guys. The team does not appear to want to talk in detail about the reason for them disbanding. As much as I’d also like to know as well, it is best not to harass them about it. They may have a reason behind it. Let’s just respect that.
 
Last edited:

XalchemistX

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
570
Location
Queens, NY
NNID
Alchemistx
I remember helping you edit the IGN guide page around the time of 3.0. It's disappointing now that there's no more updates. The hype train has finally arrived at it's last stop. I guess we don't have to worry about breaking our wrist strap anymore.

Thank you for all the work you've done Vigilante
 
Last edited:

Janthem

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
1
Thank you for all you have done, Vigilante. I will continue trying my best to grow the scene in my region in honor of you and the PMDT.
 

Bazkip

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
3,136
Location
Canada
Hey man, how about you show up to more Montreal tournies to keep the competitive scene going? I'd love to bop you some more :p
 
Last edited:

Boiko

:drshrug:
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
1,457
Location
New York
Wish I had a chance to work alongside you. Thank you for this post, it is very meaningful.
 

Vigilante

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
1,813
Location
Quebec
I remember helping you edit the IGN guide page around the time of 3.0. It's disappointing now that there's no more updates. The hype train has finally arrived at it's last stop. I guess we don't have to worry about breaking our wrist strap anymore.

Thank you for all the work you've done Vigilante
And thanks for giving me a hand at the time. I'm always open to keeping in contact with you guys. I admit that I tend to not be on Smashboards a lot, lol.
 

Paquito

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
235
For what it's worth, the fact that there's a stickied thread pointing to users to where they can download PM supports the notion that they weren't contacted by Nintendo. I'm more convinced that this move is related to not wanting to expose their new stand-alone project to legal liability, which would be super good news, because I'm ready to throw my money at a stand-alone fighter from this team :)
 

Giygacoal

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
1,651
For what it's worth, the fact that there's a stickied thread pointing to users to where they can download PM supports the notion that they weren't contacted by Nintendo. I'm more convinced that this move is related to not wanting to expose their new stand-alone project to legal liability, which would be super good news, because I'm ready to throw my money at a stand-alone fighter from this team :)
It was stated by people involved that the PMDT was not contacted by Nintendo and that the team chose to end the mod to prevent something bad (i.e. worse) from happening. Also it was implied that the guys do not have their own stand-alone fighter planned... but I'm hoping some of them would be hired by Wavedash Games because it's a safe bet that company is working on a smash-style fighter.
 

Vigilante

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
1,813
Location
Quebec
Hey man, how about you show up to more Montreal tournies to keep the competitive scene going? I'd love to bop you some more :p
Hah! Well, I won't deny that you were good, but I'll be happy to come. I have a weird schedule, but I had so much fun playing with you and I'll try to return.

Janthem Janthem : Love you man, I'm counting on you.

XalchemistX XalchemistX : And that was a great help. Thank you so much for helping.
 
Last edited:

Paquito

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
235
It was stated by people involved that the PMDT was not contacted by Nintendo and that the team chose to end the mod to prevent something bad (i.e. worse) from happening. Also it was implied that the guys do not have their own stand-alone fighter planned... but I'm hoping some of them would be hired by Wavedash Games because it's a safe bet that company is working on a smash-style fighter.
They said they weren't, but it seemed plausible this wasn't true for reasons I went into in the announcement thread, but won't rehash here.

Did really they imply they weren't working on a standalone fighter though? That's a bummer, but if they were all hired by a company that's working on a Smash-like game, I suppose that's effectively the same thing, so I'm still excited :) Also! If they were all suddenly hired by this company, this would also explain the abruptness of the announcement.
 

Giygacoal

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
1,651
They said they weren't, but it seemed plausible this wasn't true for reasons I went into in the announcement thread, but won't rehash here.

Did really they imply they weren't working on a standalone fighter though? That's a bummer, but if they were all hired by a company that's working on a Smash-like game, I suppose that's effectively the same thing, so I'm still excited :) Also! If they were all suddenly hired by this company, this would also explain the abruptness of the announcement.
They implied they are willing to move on to other endeavors, but that's it. Also if I recall correctly when people discovered the online presence of Wavedash Games the PMDT stated that WG's project does not affect PM's further development. It would be great if the PM devs do get hired because then we could support them more.

Edit: I read the post again and I should be more precise: They said they are planning on working on new projects from the ground up with the quality and professionalism the fans expect; they just didn't use the term "fighter" (even though that's obviously what we all want from them). So yeah, be excited! (I guess this means they'll still do something even if it doesn't mean joining forces with WG.)
 
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Prince Longstrok

Taker of lives, defiler of daughters.
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
648
Location
Toledo, OH
I remember you.. I think..yes. Let me check.
*looks at old messages*

Yeah! You were someone I talked to about wanting to support the PM, and eventually got into some bro talk. You're a really nice guy c:

Thanks for the memories, friend. This post will hopefully put a smile on the communities faces and help them remember the good and not think about the bad.
 

Giygacoal

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
1,651
Hey! I'm hoping we could all be around to discuss whatever game comes up years from now! It would be convenient if the web wizards make a board for it here on smashboards.
 

Vigilante

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
1,813
Location
Quebec
I remember you.. I think..yes. Let me check.
*looks at old messages*

Yeah! You were someone I talked to about wanting to support the PM, and eventually got into some bro talk. You're a really nice guy c:

Thanks for the memories, friend. This post will hopefully put a smile on the communities faces and help them remember the good and not think about the bad.
I'm glad I made a good impression on you. I'm a bit of a lazy bum in that regard, but when I get off my ass to talk to people in the scene, it's always a pleasure. It was a good time.
 

Nothingbuttip

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
1
The news of Project M ceasing development has come as a shock to me. I had been cut from the team due to being too busy with work and left on relatively good terms. I will not hide that I didn’t get along with everyone on the team, but for the most part, I have the utmost respect for the vast majority of the people there. I have not come here with answers. I do not have them. However, I come with good memories.



When I first became a smasher, I did not exactly make the best of impressions. I claimed that tier lists were fake and that wavedashing was dumb and should never be used. I acted high and mighty without the skills to back it up, likely as a result of my complete lack of self-confidence. I was young, but I also was curious at heart and went to a tournament. I got my posterior handed to me, but the young man who defeated me did not gloat as I expected he would. He commented on the unorthodox way I held my controller and called it awesome. He had some time before his next match and decided to sit down with me and play some more, conversing with me, giving me tips and cracking jokes. I don’t even remember that guy’s name, but he left a very strong impression on me. I went back to other small scale tournaments and I’d have other fun encounters like that. It was then that I realized that I wanted to be part of this community. While I was this twitchy, anxious and awkward kid that was heavily bullied elsewhere, this community accepted me and treated me as one of its own. They didn’t mind my quirks; they just enjoyed playing smash with me.



I played Melee for a long while, but later down the line, people started to angrily lash at me when I was seen using advanced techniques. I didn’t understand what was going on; I just played the way that I enjoyed playing. What was wrong with that? Others have begun to express that this was happening and several became frustrated with the constant insults and began to fight back. That may have been the community’s biggest mistake honestly as this has given the anti-competitive crowd ammunition to continue bullying people who just wanted to play games for competitive fun. Nevertheless, this frustration of dealing with these people had affected my enjoyment of anything Smash-related. I kept playing for a while, and then Brawl got announced. Now, keep in mind that yes, I do not enjoy Brawl. That hardly means that I disrespect Brawl players. I have many who are friends of mine and many whom I play Project M with. Nevertheless, my hopes were sky high. Melee was so fun, how could it go wrong? I bought the game day one and frankly, I tried to like it. I tried for over a year. I simply could not muster any enjoyment. Some of the anti-competitive types I spoke of joined the Brawl tourney side (and I want to stress that those were a minority of people in the Brawl community) and started adding animosity to the events. I wanted to have fun, not debate with angry prepubescent people about why I was a “pretendo” for enjoying Melee over Brawl. Tournaments are supposed to be a celebration of a beloved game, not a fan war. I quit the scene entirely.



Later, I learned of Project M. At first, I didn’t actually believe that it was going to go anywhere, but then I saw its implementation of L-canceling and wavedashing and I became cautiously optimistic. I started talking with the developers on the irc and they hit all of the right notes. They were clearly kind, passionate and brilliant people. I decided to boot Melee again for the first time in years and started playing with friends as I once had before my hiatus. In my discussion with the developers, I shared fun and interesting ideas, and ended up applying for the team. I got in and became pretty involved with early Lucario touch-ups, doing various tasks on a multitude of characters, discussing balance, moving on to various crazy projects like being acting out Snake’s forward smash in front of a bad webcam, drawing the rough draft of the turbo booster item in MS Paint, representing the game at tournaments, getting us on various media sites like IGN, responding to major interviews, and being a part of the Roy development team. Shadic was a very interesting leader to work under. He was open-minded to a lot of original ideas, and that was pretty motivating. I was hardly technically talented in coding. Many are much, much more deserving of praise for what they did, but I was part of this, and it was a great honour.



In my time there, I was going through very difficult times, and decided to travel even though I didn’t have much money to waste. I went to meet people like JCaesar, Ryoko, Thunderhorse, Yeroc, cmart, GHNeko, and several more, and I have never expected to be welcomed so warmly. They went out of their way to make me have a good time. Crazy hijinx happened, including one involving spicy chicken wings and me turning Thunderhorse’s bathroom into a smell hazard. In times when I was feeling lower than garbage, I had smiled for the first time in months. That’s the power of community. I even met friends like Androgynus, Billz, Pinkie_Pie and StarWaffle for example.



A lot of people kept asking me if giving us feedback actually mattered and if we actually did care about them. We did. I cannot stress that enough. Every time I went to an event, I would jot down notes about things people would say and bring them to the team, and at the very least, they were considered. Most of us at the very least cared about the community to the point where we’d argue over what was best and fairest to you guys. I won’t deny that we did this in parts for our own enjoyment, but never would I have thought that Project M would get so much love and support. Whenever I played Project M with people and saw them smile, I always felt warm inside, as if I played a small part in that happiness. Having someone hug me over Project M remains one of the sweetest moments I have experienced.



The future of this game is really in your hands. Remember that Melee was a grassroots movement and has existed as such for a very long time. If you keep holding tournaments and keep sharing the game and talking about it, there is no reason that it should die off. A competitive scene is only as solid as its community. You guys are strong, stronger than any community I know. It is fine to be sad right now, but you’re not about to give up. I just know it.



I do want to ask one thing of you guys. The team does not appear to want to talk in detail about the reason for them disbanding. As much as I’d also like to know as well, it is best not to harass them about it. They may have a reason behind it. Let’s just respect that.

You're an inspiration to everything g the community stands for man, never have I heard someone talk so pationately and spot on about the best fighting game ever created melee was amazing and project m added a fluid structer to where all of those mechanics could blossom. Project M is art and the best kind of art is scrutinized and condemned by those who don't understand it. Nintendo doesn't understand the brilliance melee was and they continue to misunderstand the brilliance project m did. Project m wasn't a way to steal from nintendo but it was a tribute to the golden age of Nintendo where people could watch people like PC Chris and Ken duke it out in the 2007 MLG smash finals. They know what the vast majority of smashers want and they condemn it. So we as a community need to step it up and show them and every other community of gamers that we stand behind the efforts of the PMBR. Its sad to see you guys go but thank you for giving us a game worthy of being a next generation smash game and even if there are no ore versions what we have will greatly surpass anything else that could try to destroy what melee was. I hope I get to see you on the sticks vigilante even if you beat me I'd be glad to get to know you through the glory of smash.
 

Vigilante

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
1,813
Location
Quebec
You're an inspiration to everything g the community stands for man, never have I heard someone talk so pationately and spot on about the best fighting game ever created melee was amazing and project m added a fluid structer to where all of those mechanics could blossom. Project M is art and the best kind of art is scrutinized and condemned by those who don't understand it. Nintendo doesn't understand the brilliance melee was and they continue to misunderstand the brilliance project m did. Project m wasn't a way to steal from nintendo but it was a tribute to the golden age of Nintendo where people could watch people like PC Chris and Ken duke it out in the 2007 MLG smash finals. They know what the vast majority of smashers want and they condemn it. So we as a community need to step it up and show them and every other community of gamers that we stand behind the efforts of the PMBR. Its sad to see you guys go but thank you for giving us a game worthy of being a next generation smash game and even if there are no ore versions what we have will greatly surpass anything else that could try to destroy what melee was. I hope I get to see you on the sticks vigilante even if you beat me I'd be glad to get to know you through the glory of smash.

Thank you, sorry I took a while to respond, had a lot of work.

To be honest, I feel real happy that people like you were touched by Project M. It made it all worth it.
 

Antique_Gamer

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
123
Location
Stadmit Region
The news of Project M ceasing development has come as a shock to me. I had been cut from the team due to being too busy with work and left on relatively good terms. I will not hide that I didn’t get along with everyone on the team, but for the most part, I have the utmost respect for the vast majority of the people there. I have not come here with answers. I do not have them. However, I come with good memories.



When I first became a smasher, I did not exactly make the best of impressions. I claimed that tier lists were fake and that wavedashing was dumb and should never be used. I acted high and mighty without the skills to back it up, likely as a result of my complete lack of self-confidence. I was young, but I also was curious at heart and went to a tournament. I got my posterior handed to me, but the young man who defeated me did not gloat as I expected he would. He commented on the unorthodox way I held my controller and called it awesome. He had some time before his next match and decided to sit down with me and play some more, conversing with me, giving me tips and cracking jokes. I don’t even remember that guy’s name, but he left a very strong impression on me. I went back to other small scale tournaments and I’d have other fun encounters like that. It was then that I realized that I wanted to be part of this community. While I was this twitchy, anxious and awkward kid that was heavily bullied elsewhere, this community accepted me and treated me as one of its own. They didn’t mind my quirks; they just enjoyed playing smash with me.



I played Melee for a long while, but later down the line, people started to angrily lash at me when I was seen using advanced techniques. I didn’t understand what was going on; I just played the way that I enjoyed playing. What was wrong with that? Others have begun to express that this was happening and several became frustrated with the constant insults and began to fight back. That may have been the community’s biggest mistake honestly as this has given the anti-competitive crowd ammunition to continue bullying people who just wanted to play games for competitive fun. Nevertheless, this frustration of dealing with these people had affected my enjoyment of anything Smash-related. I kept playing for a while, and then Brawl got announced. Now, keep in mind that yes, I do not enjoy Brawl. That hardly means that I disrespect Brawl players. I have many who are friends of mine and many whom I play Project M with. Nevertheless, my hopes were sky high. Melee was so fun, how could it go wrong? I bought the game day one and frankly, I tried to like it. I tried for over a year. I simply could not muster any enjoyment. Some of the anti-competitive types I spoke of joined the Brawl tourney side (and I want to stress that those were a minority of people in the Brawl community) and started adding animosity to the events. I wanted to have fun, not debate with angry prepubescent people about why I was a “pretendo” for enjoying Melee over Brawl. Tournaments are supposed to be a celebration of a beloved game, not a fan war. I quit the scene entirely.



Later, I learned of Project M. At first, I didn’t actually believe that it was going to go anywhere, but then I saw its implementation of L-canceling and wavedashing and I became cautiously optimistic. I started talking with the developers on the irc and they hit all of the right notes. They were clearly kind, passionate and brilliant people. I decided to boot Melee again for the first time in years and started playing with friends as I once had before my hiatus. In my discussion with the developers, I shared fun and interesting ideas, and ended up applying for the team. I got in and became pretty involved with early Lucario touch-ups, doing various tasks on a multitude of characters, discussing balance, moving on to various crazy projects like being acting out Snake’s forward smash in front of a bad webcam, drawing the rough draft of the turbo booster item in MS Paint, representing the game at tournaments, getting us on various media sites like IGN, responding to major interviews, and being a part of the Roy development team. Shadic was a very interesting leader to work under. He was open-minded to a lot of original ideas, and that was pretty motivating. I was hardly technically talented in coding. Many are much, much more deserving of praise for what they did, but I was part of this, and it was a great honour.



In my time there, I was going through very difficult times, and decided to travel even though I didn’t have much money to waste. I went to meet people like JCaesar, Ryoko, Thunderhorse, Yeroc, cmart, GHNeko, and several more, and I have never expected to be welcomed so warmly. They went out of their way to make me have a good time. Crazy hijinx happened, including one involving spicy chicken wings and me turning Thunderhorse’s bathroom into a smell hazard. In times when I was feeling lower than garbage, I had smiled for the first time in months. That’s the power of community. I even met friends like Androgynus, Billz, Pinkie_Pie and StarWaffle for example.



A lot of people kept asking me if giving us feedback actually mattered and if we actually did care about them. We did. I cannot stress that enough. Every time I went to an event, I would jot down notes about things people would say and bring them to the team, and at the very least, they were considered. Most of us at the very least cared about the community to the point where we’d argue over what was best and fairest to you guys. I won’t deny that we did this in parts for our own enjoyment, but never would I have thought that Project M would get so much love and support. Whenever I played Project M with people and saw them smile, I always felt warm inside, as if I played a small part in that happiness. Having someone hug me over Project M remains one of the sweetest moments I have experienced.



The future of this game is really in your hands. Remember that Melee was a grassroots movement and has existed as such for a very long time. If you keep holding tournaments and keep sharing the game and talking about it, there is no reason that it should die off. A competitive scene is only as solid as its community. You guys are strong, stronger than any community I know. It is fine to be sad right now, but you’re not about to give up. I just know it.



I do want to ask one thing of you guys. The team does not appear to want to talk in detail about the reason for them disbanding. As much as I’d also like to know as well, it is best not to harass them about it. They may have a reason behind it. Let’s just respect that.
Any word on what PMDT is doing next? Or are they (currently) just as underground as Conkur's Bad Fur Day?

Plus, what about some of the other Brawl modders?
 
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