~Firefly~
Smash Hero
Because you didn't come to BC the first time you scrub.
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AlbertaSmash
- Thread starter victra♥
- Start date
Rush
Smash Apprentice
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Victor don't call us out for being closed minded when you're the one getting angry because we don't share the exact mindset as you. Like that's so hypocritical it's not even funny. The brawl community isn't elitist at all, and we've been good to all of our new players, and encourage them to come to smashfests, and to come to tournaments just for friendlies. Just before you came back we had a decent flux of new players, but for some reason they all decided to leave, probably because most people don't like getting destroyed (even in friendlies) in video games. That has nothing to do with our elitist mindset, and our desire to make money, it's just because we're all actually good at brawl.
My only resistance to your "taking over" is actually your closed mindedness that you're clearly demonstrating. I think you need to consider the desires of the current community before looking at the possibility of new members, but to me it seems you'd rather do away with the majority of us :/. The club, imo, should advertise that it is a competitive smash club that focuses on trying to get better at the game. I mean sure we can have large smashfests where scrubs come in and play FFA items on, but that just does not sound like what the smash community generated by smashboards was all about. It sounds like to me that you would not mind this outcome, or at least you're not considering that your mindset will generate this outcome.
Looking at the LoL and sc2 groups is fine, but you gotta remember that those games are made to be competitive, so the members they attract already acknowledge this. It's also an online game, so the majority of the time of getting better at the game is going to be moneyless grinding on perfecting builds, timings, micro, macro etc. I think in order for a smash club to have this same mentality it requires there to be something that makes it have a competitive feel. So it's not about the money exactly, it's about the feeling the money gives... That's what the money has always been about. So maybe as a club we can look into generating worthwhile prizes for tournaments that we hold? I think that's a decent idea, but I do think there needs to be something, or else it's going to be a scrubfest, that I personally would not want to be part of.
My only resistance to your "taking over" is actually your closed mindedness that you're clearly demonstrating. I think you need to consider the desires of the current community before looking at the possibility of new members, but to me it seems you'd rather do away with the majority of us :/. The club, imo, should advertise that it is a competitive smash club that focuses on trying to get better at the game. I mean sure we can have large smashfests where scrubs come in and play FFA items on, but that just does not sound like what the smash community generated by smashboards was all about. It sounds like to me that you would not mind this outcome, or at least you're not considering that your mindset will generate this outcome.
Looking at the LoL and sc2 groups is fine, but you gotta remember that those games are made to be competitive, so the members they attract already acknowledge this. It's also an online game, so the majority of the time of getting better at the game is going to be moneyless grinding on perfecting builds, timings, micro, macro etc. I think in order for a smash club to have this same mentality it requires there to be something that makes it have a competitive feel. So it's not about the money exactly, it's about the feeling the money gives... That's what the money has always been about. So maybe as a club we can look into generating worthwhile prizes for tournaments that we hold? I think that's a decent idea, but I do think there needs to be something, or else it's going to be a scrubfest, that I personally would not want to be part of.
I agree that we should advertise it as a competitive smash club. However I dont think a scrubfest will ever occur. I think that with the new players that we have had, the general mindset for many of them is to improve simply because they can see how much improvements they need to make in order to reach our level. (noor, tags, seb, etc). New players will only stick around if they have other people around their skill level and/or they are genuinely eager to improve. Joe Smith who wants to play items on big blue probably wont be as dedicated (but it's not to say that we should shoo him away if he wants to play).
Ron and I were thinking of ways of generating a competitive feel while keeping the money for the unaffiliated events only (so we're talking, our weekly events and get togethers). LoL and SC2 are made to be competitive because of their deep gameplay (which I believe, smash has) and their ranking systems. Both games are played casually, but it's specifically the ranking system that pushes players further in a competitive aspect. Perhaps we could do something similar, where players are ranked in "leagues" or "tiers" to promote a desire to compete during the weekly drop-ins?
#occupybrawl
Ron and I were thinking of ways of generating a competitive feel while keeping the money for the unaffiliated events only (so we're talking, our weekly events and get togethers). LoL and SC2 are made to be competitive because of their deep gameplay (which I believe, smash has) and their ranking systems. Both games are played casually, but it's specifically the ranking system that pushes players further in a competitive aspect. Perhaps we could do something similar, where players are ranked in "leagues" or "tiers" to promote a desire to compete during the weekly drop-ins?
#occupybrawl
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Actually I think a ladder kind of system is a really good idea. The squash club did that, and their numbers have been growing pretty consistently.
Tyson651
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2006
- Messages
- 1,643
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Well it's a box league, so they have "boxes" of people. The boxes are also skill based, so there will be a box filled with lower level players, a box with the mid levels, and a box filled with the top levels. Then you try to get out of your box by being the top of your box, and eventually be the king of the league by being the #1 in the top level box.
are the boxes generalized like "bronze, silver, gold" or are there rankings in each box as well, like "bronze 1,2,3, silver 1,2,3, gold 1,2,3"
how do they consider the placings? Through a panel, event results?
how do they consider the placings? Through a panel, event results?
Alphicans
Smash Hero
like bronze 1,2,3.
Kinda through a panel, but they more or less random the rankings at the start, and then just let the matches determine the rankings more accurately.
Kinda through a panel, but they more or less random the rankings at the start, and then just let the matches determine the rankings more accurately.
Lex Jewthor
Smash Apprentice
Bronze league represent.
Rush
Smash Apprentice
Yoo I haven't played SC2 in awhile, Victor we should play SC2 sometime. Does anyone else play?
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
You should delete that post Clarke, that's pretty disrespectful for someone who just hosted a tournament for your community. Now I'm reminded why I don't want to host anything in this community anymore.
I think the biggest challenge for Melee vs games like SC2 and LoL is the technology gap. For one, Melee is on a 12 year old system that isn't even commercialized anymore, so it's hard for people to stay motivated in playing regularly when the system and its peripherals aren't on anybody's home setups or even in stores to be bought. Secondly, games like SC2 and LoL have first-party support from their publishers/developers whereas Smash has never seen the light of day from Nintendo. In fact, when Brawl had the opportunity of being popularized at MLG a few years ago, Nintendo specifically disallowed Brawl from being streamed online to an international audience. This contrasts SC2 and LoL in that they've got constant updates, tournament support, and increasing content to keep the game going. And finally, what might be the most important is online support. People can practice online whenever they want in the comfort of their home which I think is a HUGE thing that's missing in the Smash community.
So you can't really treat SC2 and LoL like Melee, because they're two different beasts that have to be tamed differently. I think the biggest and most important thing for the Smash community is to get people dedicated to showing up to events regularly. And obviously, our community hasn't grown because our own vets can't host or show up to these events regularly. Keith's already stated that new players get free entry at RPS events, so I'd put my money on the Brawl community not growing due to the lack of advertising and exposure needed to push people to stay with them.
My question for you Victor, is why you're bashing the Brawl community when the last thing Edmonton needs right now is to be split into two communities. If you care so much about growing the community and maintaining cordial relations with everybody, then I fail to see the logic in cutting ourselves off, especially when the Brawl community's p:m setups have been the ONLY thing keeping the Melee community alive here in the past few months. If you want our community to grow so badly, then why haven't you bothered getting a venue for tourneys? Why haven't you hosted any "drop-ins" on campus when there is no smash club to be doing it and you could be free to do it any time you want? Where have you advertised for people to pick up our game and play it, and offered to teach them how to play? Why has the lack of progress on your end been directed as a monetary issue from the Brawl community?
I'm not against your idea to expand, because I fully support a growing community, but actions speak a lot louder than words and a lot of us are seeing a push for your personal agenda (which Mike pointed out) at the cost of disregarding the members from the RPS tournaments. If you want to separate ourselves from what the Brawl community's been doing, then you're just going to create an even more dead community here because no one has said yet that they're willing to step up and actually host tourneys on their own. You keep pushing people to do it as if you're going to, but you're just relying on blind faith hoping that someone's going to get stuff done all of a sudden with no real explanation. It's unrealistic at best and I'm feeling like the lack of any tangible success has made you build up frustration that you're taking out on others.
I'm not going to name any names but our community does have a history of pushing away tourney hosts that have tried helping out the community. I'm glad that I didn't completely feel this way a few years ago but I can name at least 3 instances of this happening, 4 if you're counting this time as one. I told Ron about a couple of these instances on our drive back from Calgary so I'm sure he understands. Let's try keeping our community together properly before we attempt to expand it further...
Edit: I apologize if I come off as being an asshole. I'm not trying to point fingers at anybody, and I realize that I too am part of the many reasons why our community has remained stagnant over the years. I am in no position to criticize as I haven't even hosted a tournament in years now. But I'm just trying to get a point across that trying to skip from A to C won't work without some plan in the middle. Namecalling and bashing don't count as plans, indirect or not.
I think the biggest challenge for Melee vs games like SC2 and LoL is the technology gap. For one, Melee is on a 12 year old system that isn't even commercialized anymore, so it's hard for people to stay motivated in playing regularly when the system and its peripherals aren't on anybody's home setups or even in stores to be bought. Secondly, games like SC2 and LoL have first-party support from their publishers/developers whereas Smash has never seen the light of day from Nintendo. In fact, when Brawl had the opportunity of being popularized at MLG a few years ago, Nintendo specifically disallowed Brawl from being streamed online to an international audience. This contrasts SC2 and LoL in that they've got constant updates, tournament support, and increasing content to keep the game going. And finally, what might be the most important is online support. People can practice online whenever they want in the comfort of their home which I think is a HUGE thing that's missing in the Smash community.
So you can't really treat SC2 and LoL like Melee, because they're two different beasts that have to be tamed differently. I think the biggest and most important thing for the Smash community is to get people dedicated to showing up to events regularly. And obviously, our community hasn't grown because our own vets can't host or show up to these events regularly. Keith's already stated that new players get free entry at RPS events, so I'd put my money on the Brawl community not growing due to the lack of advertising and exposure needed to push people to stay with them.
My question for you Victor, is why you're bashing the Brawl community when the last thing Edmonton needs right now is to be split into two communities. If you care so much about growing the community and maintaining cordial relations with everybody, then I fail to see the logic in cutting ourselves off, especially when the Brawl community's p:m setups have been the ONLY thing keeping the Melee community alive here in the past few months. If you want our community to grow so badly, then why haven't you bothered getting a venue for tourneys? Why haven't you hosted any "drop-ins" on campus when there is no smash club to be doing it and you could be free to do it any time you want? Where have you advertised for people to pick up our game and play it, and offered to teach them how to play? Why has the lack of progress on your end been directed as a monetary issue from the Brawl community?
I'm not against your idea to expand, because I fully support a growing community, but actions speak a lot louder than words and a lot of us are seeing a push for your personal agenda (which Mike pointed out) at the cost of disregarding the members from the RPS tournaments. If you want to separate ourselves from what the Brawl community's been doing, then you're just going to create an even more dead community here because no one has said yet that they're willing to step up and actually host tourneys on their own. You keep pushing people to do it as if you're going to, but you're just relying on blind faith hoping that someone's going to get stuff done all of a sudden with no real explanation. It's unrealistic at best and I'm feeling like the lack of any tangible success has made you build up frustration that you're taking out on others.
I'm not going to name any names but our community does have a history of pushing away tourney hosts that have tried helping out the community. I'm glad that I didn't completely feel this way a few years ago but I can name at least 3 instances of this happening, 4 if you're counting this time as one. I told Ron about a couple of these instances on our drive back from Calgary so I'm sure he understands. Let's try keeping our community together properly before we attempt to expand it further...
Edit: I apologize if I come off as being an asshole. I'm not trying to point fingers at anybody, and I realize that I too am part of the many reasons why our community has remained stagnant over the years. I am in no position to criticize as I haven't even hosted a tournament in years now. But I'm just trying to get a point across that trying to skip from A to C won't work without some plan in the middle. Namecalling and bashing don't count as plans, indirect or not.
1. The fact that melee has lasted this long and still gets new players steadily trickling in should tell you something. The fact that we get so many people joining us simply by taking the initiative to google us tells me that there is a untapped community out there, and all we need to do is introduce ourselves instead of the other way around.
2. It's funny that you say I haven't willingly stepped up to host a tourney. I'm actually the only one to host a tournament in Edmonton over the last few years. Last year in fact! KSA. We got calgary to come and a bunch of new players who are starting to join us again (andrew, chris, kyle etc). We 2 rooms full of tvs and set ups, pizza, asus sponsership, ksa involvement etc. So yeah, I don't know what youre trying to prove by saying I haven't taken the incentive. But you weren't there I dont think so I can't blame ya for not remembering.
3. uh...I haven't hosted any "drop-ins" because that was literally an idea I thought of and pitched on friday lol....and we're in the midst of sorting it out now. It's part of the reason why we're all discussing this in the first place, (establishing a club, finding a stable location, advertising etc.) Are you serious Tyler lol, come on.
4. Don't under estimate what I'm capable of Tyler. I've done more for this community than you can ever imagine even before you entered the scene. I've talked the talk and I've walked the walk and I feel like I have seen success in my efforts. If my contributions and volunteered time over the last 8 years aren't appreciated by the very community i'm trying to help then I'll stop bothering. I'm in my last year of engineering and I honestly have a lot more things I need to worry about and my efforts, passion, and dedicated can easily be better spent elsewhere.
**** i hate how much i like this ****ing game god ****ing damn it.
2. It's funny that you say I haven't willingly stepped up to host a tourney. I'm actually the only one to host a tournament in Edmonton over the last few years. Last year in fact! KSA. We got calgary to come and a bunch of new players who are starting to join us again (andrew, chris, kyle etc). We 2 rooms full of tvs and set ups, pizza, asus sponsership, ksa involvement etc. So yeah, I don't know what youre trying to prove by saying I haven't taken the incentive. But you weren't there I dont think so I can't blame ya for not remembering.
3. uh...I haven't hosted any "drop-ins" because that was literally an idea I thought of and pitched on friday lol....and we're in the midst of sorting it out now. It's part of the reason why we're all discussing this in the first place, (establishing a club, finding a stable location, advertising etc.) Are you serious Tyler lol, come on.
4. Don't under estimate what I'm capable of Tyler. I've done more for this community than you can ever imagine even before you entered the scene. I've talked the talk and I've walked the walk and I feel like I have seen success in my efforts. If my contributions and volunteered time over the last 8 years aren't appreciated by the very community i'm trying to help then I'll stop bothering. I'm in my last year of engineering and I honestly have a lot more things I need to worry about and my efforts, passion, and dedicated can easily be better spent elsewhere.
**** i hate how much i like this ****ing game god ****ing damn it.
Alphicans
Smash Hero
OMG mark is so hype.
Stevo
Smash Champion
I don't really want to take a side here, but I would just like to say that I think Victor is really good at bringing in new players and making them feel comfortable.
Edmonton as a whole definitely needs to change SOMETHING.
Edmonton as a whole definitely needs to change SOMETHING.
sleak-
Smash Journeyman
Ya I like victra i feeel likee his the heart of the edmonton smash community IMO
#teamvictra
#teamvictra
GhllieShdeKnife
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 687
i edited out the part about brad not contributing anything to my efforts because i agree that is inaccurate. @AfterDawn if you were referring to anything other than that i dont think i went wrong at all other than being salty about everyone not being able to come.
What can i say, you cant make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.
I think brad understands my agenda and i understand his, i think we are on the same page and he has no resentment towards me for that comment.
What can i say, you cant make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.
I think brad understands my agenda and i understand his, i think we are on the same page and he has no resentment towards me for that comment.
sleak-
Smash Journeyman
that was a fun crew battle.. except..
arthur- y u no judge him?
matt- y u so gewd?
brad- y u no go ike?
victor- y wario so OP
arthur- y u no judge him?
matt- y u so gewd?
brad- y u no go ike?
victor- y wario so OP
Tyler does bring up a good point about people pushing away people trying to put forward an effort, I don't think people actively try to be jerks about things, but from having run events, as well as been around forever now, I can safely say it's hard to want to consistantly provide when you're constantly met with empty complaints and bashing, everyone can see it with how popular I am lately, the honest truth is respectfully, I've done more then pretty much anyone who has been complaining, the majority of humble people are people who have dealt with the same pressures.
That all being said, again, I think we're losing sight of what matters, we all mean well for the community, I can safely say I have no interest in playing brawl, I find it a boring as hell game, but I respect those who play it, and have seen very legitimate matches come from it, No hard feelings to anyone, and some of the best parts of the community are the brawl players, I just don't really care to play it myself. I think thats a fair statement. I put it priority over Project M, I think that is proof to anyone who doesn't believe I care.
Simon would've slayed falcos no problem. I dunno how that count happened.
I'd like to bring attention to a few parts of this statement. Victor is right, he has done... well its argueable that he's done more for alberta smash than anyone (Randall/Carl maybe?) Like, it's just fact that he's been a huge part of bringing everyone together, hell, CAST is the reason I stuck around.
That being said, Victor you also need to realize how new this community is, many of the players that attended ANY of the cast tournaments aren't here anymore, the majority of the community has no idea who you are, so making a statement so bold as this comes off as very rude. You know, evil villian at the end bashing the hero for not knowing anything of his power, stuff like that. I know Victor, I actually agree with the statement, just understand from a representitive standpoint that people are gonna judge you, I don't know why it's old players since they should agree, but still, I've fallen for this trick before, saying something that stings, even if it's honest, puts a bad view on yourself, thats the last thing any of us need.
But don't give up, we've all faced hardships. Look at Luke, out of old calgary, Myself and maybe Randall were the only people who didn't block his posts on smashboards, it was like, ridiculous how much hate he got, but he did provide for the community. (He loves doughnut powder too!) Same goes for Tyler. Everyone who puts themselves forward are going to gain a negative stigmatism from some group of people who see their flaws but can't see past them.
Hell, I just ran a tournament that was the most successful in a long time, but it didn't even run every event, I can't count the number of things I messed up (more than I'm willing to reveal tbqh) but overall, everyone was glad it happened.
I think we need to put this issue to rest and understand we all mean well, nobody is here because they want to see smash die. We all love this game, let's remember why we're here.
I support Victor, and think we should all give him a chance (this is mostly aimed at edmonton) on this club thing. Forgive him for bashing brawl, or saying bold things, theres nothing wrong with him thinking that, just let him learn to say it differently.
That all being said, again, I think we're losing sight of what matters, we all mean well for the community, I can safely say I have no interest in playing brawl, I find it a boring as hell game, but I respect those who play it, and have seen very legitimate matches come from it, No hard feelings to anyone, and some of the best parts of the community are the brawl players, I just don't really care to play it myself. I think thats a fair statement. I put it priority over Project M, I think that is proof to anyone who doesn't believe I care.
I am willing to take that blame since literally nobody wanted me to go mario, ike is just so... like I dunno, I feel like he's a crutch! (That and I actually blame my less than great performance on myself and not Mario, I seriously just didn't play all that well, Mario is ****ing great in P:M, I think I would've done equally bad with Ike in that moment)
Simon would've slayed falcos no problem. I dunno how that count happened.
This is true, Clarke is a good guy, frustration gets the best of us all. Myself included of course.
Insert Joke about Victor being in Seattle during a tournament he hosted.
I'd like to bring attention to a few parts of this statement. Victor is right, he has done... well its argueable that he's done more for alberta smash than anyone (Randall/Carl maybe?) Like, it's just fact that he's been a huge part of bringing everyone together, hell, CAST is the reason I stuck around.
That being said, Victor you also need to realize how new this community is, many of the players that attended ANY of the cast tournaments aren't here anymore, the majority of the community has no idea who you are, so making a statement so bold as this comes off as very rude. You know, evil villian at the end bashing the hero for not knowing anything of his power, stuff like that. I know Victor, I actually agree with the statement, just understand from a representitive standpoint that people are gonna judge you, I don't know why it's old players since they should agree, but still, I've fallen for this trick before, saying something that stings, even if it's honest, puts a bad view on yourself, thats the last thing any of us need.
But don't give up, we've all faced hardships. Look at Luke, out of old calgary, Myself and maybe Randall were the only people who didn't block his posts on smashboards, it was like, ridiculous how much hate he got, but he did provide for the community. (He loves doughnut powder too!) Same goes for Tyler. Everyone who puts themselves forward are going to gain a negative stigmatism from some group of people who see their flaws but can't see past them.
Hell, I just ran a tournament that was the most successful in a long time, but it didn't even run every event, I can't count the number of things I messed up (more than I'm willing to reveal tbqh) but overall, everyone was glad it happened.
I think we need to put this issue to rest and understand we all mean well, nobody is here because they want to see smash die. We all love this game, let's remember why we're here.
I support Victor, and think we should all give him a chance (this is mostly aimed at edmonton) on this club thing. Forgive him for bashing brawl, or saying bold things, theres nothing wrong with him thinking that, just let him learn to say it differently.
Sidenote, in that crew battle, Matt was SOOOO salty about playing Steve, he is really good at P:M and he was pretty confident he could take pretty much anyone but steve down
edit: Next time I'll play my real main, Random.
doble edit: But actually, being 100% honest, I don't have a main, I play random every time I play P:M (which isn't often). I am confident however, that Ike is not my best at all. Maybe top 5.
edit: Next time I'll play my real main, Random.
doble edit: But actually, being 100% honest, I don't have a main, I play random every time I play P:M (which isn't often). I am confident however, that Ike is not my best at all. Maybe top 5.
That's why we got stevo to play him hahaha. Matt is scary good. Like, i've beaten him in the friendlies we played but ****, i'm so scared of that pit and was definitely not confident haha.
Also, thanks brad.
I am sorry if i come across as a douche to the brawl community. Yeah I don't like the game that much, but I do really like the people in it. I'm sorry if what i have said was harsh. Many of you are good friends of mine that I have known for yearssss and it's the reason why I am trying so desperately to accommodate for you guys instead of just running a purely free melee/pm club. I got frustrated because we share conflicting views and mentalities about the game, but we all play this game together so let's just please try something new and share our love of smash with more players.
Also, thanks brad.
I am sorry if i come across as a douche to the brawl community. Yeah I don't like the game that much, but I do really like the people in it. I'm sorry if what i have said was harsh. Many of you are good friends of mine that I have known for yearssss and it's the reason why I am trying so desperately to accommodate for you guys instead of just running a purely free melee/pm club. I got frustrated because we share conflicting views and mentalities about the game, but we all play this game together so let's just please try something new and share our love of smash with more players.
Stevo
Smash Champion
wifi version PM is a good Stevo counterpick