Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
I was really bored and almost wrote a guide for the Sheik vs ICs MU. But does anyone even play against ICs that would benefit in anyway from hearing anything I have to say on the Matchup?
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Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
iLight
Smash Lord
I'z can learn?Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
I thought you quit though
lol you can't quit smash... unless you are me I guess........
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
teach me how to Sheik vs. ICs! I don't think ol' Zelda cuts it anymore if they know how to play her!
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
The strategy I've found most effective for fighting against ICs, is to take roughly 50 damage in upairs before you start doing any kind of fighting. After that you can safely split up the Ice climbers without fear of being solo popo chain grabbed.
What we can do
Needle's are a lot more usefull in this MU than they should be, if you catch them desynching that's free needle damage, its also a free dash attack if you're within range. Dash attack is good if you are above 50 percent because it puts nana in the air, and if you hit both climbers it often hits them in different directions allowing you to capitalize. Bair is an amazing aerial tool for keeping them separated. if you can take their double jump away from them offstage just sit on the ledge, and at least nana will die. Our up-tilt goes through their dair, don't ask why it just does. f-tilt is also really good if you catch at around 20-30 percent, you'll get them both in there for a decent amount of time and if you finish with a reverse up-tilt(Like if you're facing left when you're f-tilting, you turn around and face right when you do you're up-tilt) it knocks them in different directions. GR->Dacus is guaranteed on popo( and I assume nana, never been in a situation where i could test that out in game)so if you get them decently separated at around 85ish, just grab popo. Sheik's grabs and throws are really fast, so it becomes a pretty good option unless they're expecting it. Never up-smash unless you're sure that you'll hit.
What they can do
We have no options against uair if we are above them. Unlike Pikachu whose upair we can trade d-smash with. IC's upair is too disjointed. Desynched Ice Blocks under a platform is something we can do nothing about without significant risk of being grabbed. Pivot grabs stuff out any approach we have, and cover landings pretty strongly.
What we can do about those
We have no options against uair if we are above them.-
If the ICs is bad, they won;t know that SH upair pokes without going above the platform, if you're playing one of those, just punish them once they over shoot, no hard punishes, just small damage until roughly tiltable percents... If they know/are good, you can either run to another platform in teh hopes that they'll chase and leave themselves open, try to run off the platform and bair... vanish glide off of a platform in hopes that they'll get too close, vanish where you are standing in hopes they jump up too soon and get blown up, b boost off of a platform and upon landing do a grounded b-reverse a needle throw. None of these options are guaranteed, but they're the only ones I've ever thought of and had work.
Desynched Ice Blocks under a platform is something we can do nothing about without significant risk of being grabbed.
Don't let them get into this position in the first place, if you see them desynching throw any needles you may have. If they have the percent lead and they get under a platform and do this, well lol that sucks. You can try and bait them out of it, or get some fancy bair landing gimmick, maybe try some fancy chain works or a vanish play. We don't have the tools needed to deal with this without a horrible risk/reward if they do it correctly.
Pivot grabs stuff out any approach we have, and cover landings pretty strongly.
Well don't approach obviously, if you can bait a pivot grab, you can punish it with needles, dash attack, dash grab and depending on how close you are f-tilt or d-tilt.
As for stages I personally only like the MU on Battle Field and Lylat, Pokemon Stadium Melee is a stage I'm also willing to play the MU on. I haven't ever tried it before but Pokemon stadium 2 is another stage I'd like to try it on, the Ice/wind/metal transformations may screw up chain grabs. If you aren't afraid of a pocket mk then you can try rainbow or Brinstar. I guess SV would be the next best option. But I hate SV, i think its Sheik's 3rd worst starter on the current list, in the MU its probably her 4th worst stage(lol FD).... and where you're most likely going to start the set. As I've said before i think you need multiple platforms, SV's 1 moving platform while somewhat helpful is not nearly as useful as the 3 on BF, or the 2 to 3(depending on the transformation) on pokemon stadium. The SV platform is also platform cancellable, and when it move all the way to the side you're in such a dangerous position. Like if they just jump up there and land an f-smash all of a sudden you;re trying to recover, the platform is going to begin moving away from you so you'll be forced to vanish, if they're smart nana will be sitting on the ledge and you''l be forced onto the stage where popo will grab you. And even if you were to somehow reverse that situation, and knock them off, unless they're at really high percents they can just recover low and theres no issue.
What we can do
Needle's are a lot more usefull in this MU than they should be, if you catch them desynching that's free needle damage, its also a free dash attack if you're within range. Dash attack is good if you are above 50 percent because it puts nana in the air, and if you hit both climbers it often hits them in different directions allowing you to capitalize. Bair is an amazing aerial tool for keeping them separated. if you can take their double jump away from them offstage just sit on the ledge, and at least nana will die. Our up-tilt goes through their dair, don't ask why it just does. f-tilt is also really good if you catch at around 20-30 percent, you'll get them both in there for a decent amount of time and if you finish with a reverse up-tilt(Like if you're facing left when you're f-tilting, you turn around and face right when you do you're up-tilt) it knocks them in different directions. GR->Dacus is guaranteed on popo( and I assume nana, never been in a situation where i could test that out in game)so if you get them decently separated at around 85ish, just grab popo. Sheik's grabs and throws are really fast, so it becomes a pretty good option unless they're expecting it. Never up-smash unless you're sure that you'll hit.
What they can do
We have no options against uair if we are above them. Unlike Pikachu whose upair we can trade d-smash with. IC's upair is too disjointed. Desynched Ice Blocks under a platform is something we can do nothing about without significant risk of being grabbed. Pivot grabs stuff out any approach we have, and cover landings pretty strongly.
What we can do about those
We have no options against uair if we are above them.-
If the ICs is bad, they won;t know that SH upair pokes without going above the platform, if you're playing one of those, just punish them once they over shoot, no hard punishes, just small damage until roughly tiltable percents... If they know/are good, you can either run to another platform in teh hopes that they'll chase and leave themselves open, try to run off the platform and bair... vanish glide off of a platform in hopes that they'll get too close, vanish where you are standing in hopes they jump up too soon and get blown up, b boost off of a platform and upon landing do a grounded b-reverse a needle throw. None of these options are guaranteed, but they're the only ones I've ever thought of and had work.
Desynched Ice Blocks under a platform is something we can do nothing about without significant risk of being grabbed.
Don't let them get into this position in the first place, if you see them desynching throw any needles you may have. If they have the percent lead and they get under a platform and do this, well lol that sucks. You can try and bait them out of it, or get some fancy bair landing gimmick, maybe try some fancy chain works or a vanish play. We don't have the tools needed to deal with this without a horrible risk/reward if they do it correctly.
Pivot grabs stuff out any approach we have, and cover landings pretty strongly.
Well don't approach obviously, if you can bait a pivot grab, you can punish it with needles, dash attack, dash grab and depending on how close you are f-tilt or d-tilt.
As for stages I personally only like the MU on Battle Field and Lylat, Pokemon Stadium Melee is a stage I'm also willing to play the MU on. I haven't ever tried it before but Pokemon stadium 2 is another stage I'd like to try it on, the Ice/wind/metal transformations may screw up chain grabs. If you aren't afraid of a pocket mk then you can try rainbow or Brinstar. I guess SV would be the next best option. But I hate SV, i think its Sheik's 3rd worst starter on the current list, in the MU its probably her 4th worst stage(lol FD).... and where you're most likely going to start the set. As I've said before i think you need multiple platforms, SV's 1 moving platform while somewhat helpful is not nearly as useful as the 3 on BF, or the 2 to 3(depending on the transformation) on pokemon stadium. The SV platform is also platform cancellable, and when it move all the way to the side you're in such a dangerous position. Like if they just jump up there and land an f-smash all of a sudden you;re trying to recover, the platform is going to begin moving away from you so you'll be forced to vanish, if they're smart nana will be sitting on the ledge and you''l be forced onto the stage where popo will grab you. And even if you were to somehow reverse that situation, and knock them off, unless they're at really high percents they can just recover low and theres no issue.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
after reading that post i remember how annoying it is to play brawl that you can't just go in rofl
I could only ever go in with Sheik in Melee because aerial needles were so broken.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Come back plz
versus IC just run like a little girl the whole set. (read don't go in versus both nana is retardedly broken she WILL grab you when she can't)
If they get close get on a plat or the edge worst case. (In a flow chart this would then go back to run like a little girl)
needle openings and needle when ever it is safe.
thats it, you'll win
If they get close get on a plat or the edge worst case. (In a flow chart this would then go back to run like a little girl)
needle openings and needle when ever it is safe.
thats it, you'll win
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Come back plz
but this is why i don't enjoy the game that much
whenever i do play brawl, i try to play characters that can approach. so sheik in many matchups does work, like vs marth and olimar i like to approach.
however when it come to other matchups, i switch around with peach, snake, diddy, meta, fox, stuff like that. just gotta keep it fun.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
You should try picking up Trelacario
I'm gonna go fail at another tournament this weekend.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
why? how does he play???
iLight
Smash Lord
trela's lucario is lvl 100 with perfect ev's and then only reason he loses is because other people hacked and have level 150+ sometimes...
Lucario is clearly the best Pokémon.
Jimmyfosho
Smash Hero
Psyduck is better.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
shoutouts to gardevoir.
Gardevoir is low tier just like me.
Pichu son!
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Poor male gardevoir (especially prior to 4th gen).
choknater
Smash Obsessed
watching my old sheik vids makes me want to play again
i made this game fun
i made this game fun
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Play then man! Do it! DOOOOOO IT lol.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
His sweep is gdlk, he pulls out some crazy strings:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERYPW4wdbzQ#t=7m13s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2MEHOxEWWo#t=66m10s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccMfYXEfx24#t=10m50s
Makes 2-stock comebacks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5I8iJ3cBs8
And doesn't afraid of anything
iLight
Smash Lord
trela pooped on me at MLG dallas, my closest match against him was on BF with sheik, then I got bodied when I tried to play ROB =/
Renki
Smash Journeyman
'Ey Sheiks.
:waves:
:waves:
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Good.......good.......
:folds hands:
:folds hands:
Renki
Smash Journeyman
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
lol, I'll try to do some sort of tourney in Nov. Just couldn't in October due to working Howl-O-Scream here at Busch Gardens.
iLight
Smash Lord
I will continue with my endless retirement trolling and not going to tournament but still being the best sheik in texas/southwest b/c there are no others
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
What happened to kilik?
can't quit sheik... can't
I think all of us have tried more than once.
I think all of us have tried more than once.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
I just got second at a local.
Winners and grands got recorded.
I give up on the MK MU. I'm just gonna forfeit against them from now on, its not fun and I personally feel like Its a worse MU than ICs.
Winners and grands got recorded.
I give up on the MK MU. I'm just gonna forfeit against them from now on, its not fun and I personally feel like Its a worse MU than ICs.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
It is pretty dumb at times.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Amazing results Tutu!!! Great work!