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Accidental find? Retreating w. tether

KaptenFullkorn

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Magnetgoat

Hello guys! I played a friendly today and did this by accident. I went back to the lab to try to recreate it, and did to some extent, i never managed to tether under the ledge and drop it again - but could tether cancel to grab the ledge directly and to tether away from the ledge.

Im coming from playing falcon, can anyone with some more tether experience or lucas knowledge try it out and see if you find it useful or not?

I think its by sh away from the ledge, immediately tether while holding down and away from the ledge. Im not sure if its the best way tho...

edit: on second thought this might be a better tool to surprise opponents thats trying to recover?
 
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It looks like what MIGHT have happened is you tried to grab/ZAir Lucina after your shield got hit by her fsmash. Since you dropped shield before shieldpush ended, you slid off the ledge while throwing out the Rope Snake, so he tethered onto the ledge. You tethered close to the ledge, so the "pendulum" length was short, and you had the shieldpush momentum, so you got swung beneath the ledge really quickly.

MAYBE
 
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Dumbfire

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It looks like what MIGHT have happened is you tried to grab/ZAir Lucina after your shield got hit by her fsmash. Since you dropped shield before shieldpush ended, you slid off the ledge while throwing out the Rope Snake, so he tethered onto the ledge. You tethered close to the ledge, so the "pendulum" length was short, and you had the shieldpush momentum, so you got swung beneath the ledge really quickly.

MAYBE
Yes that's what this looks like -- I've had it with Link it looks similar. When that happens I keep mashing A, I always still get them with a get-up attack.

If you want to tether the ledge from standing on the ledge position, jump off a little and get a nice diagonal angle with the ledge, you can't fail then. What that is useful for is the Zair trump. When you trump normally, you have to time the trump well in order to get your follow-up. But after you grab the ledge with Zair you can act immediately, so regardless of your timing you can get a follow-up (Bair spike with Lucas, depending on DI of enemy -- or let them jump and hit them, or let them recover low and hit them on the ledge with Dsmash). Furthermore, normally when you try to trump but your opponent buffers a get-up attack, roll or jump, you won't get the trump -- you can avoid a non-perfectly timed tether trump with that too. But, if you trump with your tether and time it perfectly then do a normal-getup, you are in an advantageous position where you are ahead of your opponent in timing. If they do anything but one of the three get-ups just mentioned they'll be trumped -- if they do one of those you can easily punish them because you are already on-stage. This is especially useful against low recovers like Pit and Rosalina. You can see me take advantage of a tether trump here. You see I did it there from airdodge, because doing a Zair from aridodge will make sure you don't get a buffered Zair (and buffered zairs don't connect with the ledge).
 
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Kenturo

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Jun 11, 2013
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It looks like what MIGHT have happened is you tried to grab/ZAir Lucina after your shield got hit by her fsmash. Since you dropped shield before shieldpush ended, you slid off the ledge while throwing out the Rope Snake, so he tethered onto the ledge. You tethered close to the ledge, so the "pendulum" length was short, and you had the shieldpush momentum, so you got swung beneath the ledge really quickly.

MAYBE
No, you can definitely grab the ledge with the tether by just standing on the ledge with your back to it, shorthopping, and then using zair. I've been able to do it multiple times before. Lucas will grab the edge and hang from the top for a second before falling down like he did in the video. I dont remember the exact input but i think you may need to slightly move the control stick back but you can grab the ledge without Lucas reaching the full ascent from his short hop.
 

extremechiton

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This is a good way to get a ledge trump to which you can fall off and back air for a neat spike ;)
 

Perris6

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Could you use the momentum from a retreating PkFire to tether as well? Will be a Nice way to trump as well
 

KaptenFullkorn

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No, you can definitely grab the ledge with the tether by just standing on the ledge with your back to it, shorthopping, and then using zair. I've been able to do it multiple times before. Lucas will grab the edge and hang from the top for a second before falling down like he did in the video. I dont remember the exact input but i think you may need to slightly move the control stick back but you can grab the ledge without Lucas reaching the full ascent from his short hop.
idk if it might be the two of these combined what caused it, but you're right that was my conclusion from the lab aswell, im probably going to dig abit in this tomorrow, who knows, this combined with what you guys shared about the tether buffer / trump this MIGHT be a mixup
 

Darklink401

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I don't think it had to do with shieldpush because it seems Lucas jumped right before it.

Could be a really nice fake out as well.
 

KaptenFullkorn

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it seems that i suck at recreating what happened, I'd appriciate if anyone would care to give it a whirl and see if they have a better success..
 

JosePollo

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Here's what I saw:

Lucina used her forward smash on your shield which, if there had been any more stage behind you, would've pushed you backwards. You were still in pushback momentum when you input your jump, so Lucas was moved slightly backwards, which put you over the ledge of the stage just enough for it to register as a tether attempt when you shorthopped. Not sure, but I think maybe you were trying to just grab Lucina and immediately down throw, so you jumped and tethered by accident, then when you input down he simply dropped the tether.
 
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