About Jabs...

[GerudoKong]

Jabs in this game are just stupid. Half the characters have jabs way too fast or useful. Whenever somebody mis-spaces a move, instead of getting punished for it, jabs serve a a get-out-of-jail free card half the time. That shouldn't be. Somebody shouldn't receive 7-12% damage for trying to punish your mistake. Half the characters have jabs that can be canceled into grabs, which is OK, but it shouldn't be such a good option because of the minimal end-lag a lot of jabs have. Then there's the jabs that combo into kill moves. Luckily they've lessened the number of characters that can do this, but characters like Yoshi and Marth still get way too much easy mileage off of this. A lot of jabs are also safe on shield, which is more dumb. It's like the devs wanted the neutral game to be brainless and let everybody have a chance by mashing A. Don't get me started on Rosy's Jab, which covers just about every option and can do 15%+, or jabs that kill like Falcon's or Robins.

 

[Meek Moths]

you are right jabs are stupid but if you know how to deal with them then you're at advantage

 

[DunnoBro]

Only issue i have with them is when chars also have dragon punch nairs so the escape plan is really just "mash A" no matter where they are x.x

Characters that kill off them like yoshi, marth, Fox(?) compensate for not killing off grab which is... A lot worse lol

But in general, yes. You should be taking 7-12% or MORE for trying to punish a mistake and failing.

Rosaluma's jab is dumb tho lol

 

[TurboLink]

How did they lessen the number of characters that can do this exactly?

 

[teluoborg]

Jabs in this game are just stupid. Half the characters have jabs way too fast or useful. Whenever somebody mis-spaces a move, instead of getting punished for it, jabs serve a a get-out-of-jail free card half the time. That shouldn't be. Somebody shouldn't receive 7-12% damage for trying to punish your mistake. Half the characters have jabs that can be canceled into grabs, which is OK, but it shouldn't be such a good option because of the minimal end-lag a lot of jabs have. Then there's the jabs that combo into kill moves. Luckily they've lessened the number of characters that can do this, but characters like Yoshi and Marth still get way too much easy mileage off of this. A lot of jabs are also safe on shield, which is more dumb. It's like the devs wanted the neutral game to be brainless and let everybody have a chance by mashing A. Don't get me started on Rosy's Jab, which covers just about every option and can do 15%+, or jabs that kill like Falcon's or Robins.

Wrong.
If you try to punish something and get jab'd then it just means you were too slow to punish because if they had time to jab they would've had time to shield dodge or roll, thus nullifying your punish. So punish sooner

Also only a very little number of characters have a real jab to grab setup, most of the time it's not a true combo and can be escaped/countered.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Come on man, Yoshi I get but give Marth a break, he already has a lot problems to overcome in this game and his jab to any potential follow up was a Godsend to him, he deserves to be able to get some mileage from it. Besides, none of them are guaranteed; they can be escaped by just jumping or jumping and air dodging simultaneously.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Honestly, this sounds like a personal problem. It's not like it's unfair, since everybody has a good jab. Has it occurred to you that maybe jabs were supposed to be useful and fast? Yoshi's jab, I will agree is braindead as hell (much like the character), but other than that, every other jab is fair.

 

[XenoBlur]

Honestly, this sounds like a personal problem. It's not like it's unfair, since everybody has a good jab. Has it occurred to you that maybe jabs were supposed to be useful and fast? Yoshi's jab, I will agree is braindead as hell (much like the character), but other than that, every other jab is fair.

You main Mario that has a frame 1 or 2 jab... Everyone has a good jab? Look at Samus! or even Ganon. Those jabs doesn't compare to Mario's or Yoshi's jab, also Mario isn't a character that requieres much skill to play so don't say braindead to Yoshi

 

[MarioMeteor]

You main Mario that has a frame 1 or 2 jab... Everyone has a good jab? Look at Samus! or even Ganon. Those jabs dont compare to Mario's or Yoshi's jab, also Mario isn't a character that requieres much skill so don't say braindead to Yoshi

Most jabs are somewhere between frames 2-6, which is fast as hell, and Ganondorf's jab isn't bad. Mario may not require much skill, but Yoshi is just straight up "mash A to win."

 

[XenoBlur]

Most jabs are somewhere between frames 2-6, which is fast as hell, and Ganondorf's jab isn't bad. Mario may not require much skill, but Yoshi is just straight up "mash A to win."

I wish Shulk had a fast jab like ZSS or Little mac but dealt less damage. Yeah Ganon jab isn't the worst but is bad compared to the good ones and lol You are right with Yoshi strategy, people only care to win, but Yoshi has tool to play good and not brain dead

 

[MarioMeteor]

I wish Shulk had a fast jab like ZSS or Little mac but dealt less damage. Yeah Ganon jab isn't the worst but is bad compared to the good ones and lol You are right with Yoshi strategy

Shulk's jab is frame 5, which is pretty much fast enough to do every thing most other jabs can do.

 

[Morbi]

Most characters only have a safe jab 1 or possibly jab 2, so if they mash jab, they are going to get the unsafe version. Secondly, the other day someone was complaining about air dodge, the same applies here, you can bait out the jab and punish the end lag. Or if you are too slow to react, do not run right into the jab.

 

[Rinku リンク]

I wish they'd bring back Link's jab from melee considering it's one of the slower ones in the game to be honest.

But anyhow like MarioMeteor stated before, it sounds like more of a personal problem considering jabs are just kinda there for the vast majority.

 

[Meek Moths]

Most jabs are somewhere between frames 2-6, which is fast as hell, and Ganondorf's jab isn't bad. Mario may not require much skill, but Yoshi is just straight up "mash A to win."

zelda's jab is frame 11

her fastest move is d titl which is like 5 frames

 

[MarioMeteor]

zelda's jab is frame 11

her fastest move is d titl which is like 5 frames

Keyword being "most."

 

[Meek Moths]

Keyword being "most."

few post before you said:

Honestly, this sounds like a personal problem. It's not like it's unfair, since everybody has a good jab. Has it occurred to you that maybe jabs were supposed to be useful and fast? Yoshi's jab, I will agree is braindead as hell (much like the character), but other than that, every other jab is fair.

he part "

especially the part "EVERYBODY HAS A GOOD JAB"

i didn't feel like quoting both of your posts to make my reply shorter but you gave me no other option

 

[Big-Cat]

You would hate Tekken then.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I've seen people complaining about shields, rolling, air-dodging, counters, grabs, spikes, recoveries, and now jabs. What's next, walking speed? Dear God, learn to adapt or stop playing. Jabs are literally one of the most orthodox and least broken mechanics in this game, and you still find ways to complain about it. If you aren't learning from your losses, then you're doing it wrong. Utilize it when it serves you and appreciate it, avoid it when you're the target. Easy as that. If you have the same advantage as the other characters and you're just worse at utilizing it, your complaints are meaningless.

 

[MarioMeteor]

few post before you said:

he part "

especially the part "EVERYBODY HAS A GOOD JAB"

i didn't feel like quoting both of your posts to make my reply shorter but you gave me no other option

Fast doesn't equal good, nor vice-versa. Ganondorf is walking proof of that.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Fast doesn't equal good, nor vice-versa. Ganondorf is walking proof of that.

Fast is advantageous though. Ganon will never be top tier, or even high tier if we're realistically speaking. No he's not the worst, but 90% of his disadvantages are due to his speed, or lack thereof.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Fast is advantageous though. Ganon will never be top tier, or even high tier if we're realistically speaking. No he's not the worst, but 90% of his disadvantages are due to his speed, or lack thereof.

Lack of speed; lack of disjointed reach; lack of projectiles; short Up Special that lacks horizontal movement, has low damage, and has knockback that is both too low and at exactly the wrong angle… it's not just low speed, and fixing just a couple of those problems would instantly make him a significantly more viable character.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Fast is advantageous though. Ganon will never be top tier, or even high tier if we're realistically speaking. No he's not the worst, but 90% of his disadvantages are due to his speed, or lack thereof.

True and true, but I definitely wouldn't call Ganondorf bad. Not all fast characters are good, either, i.e. Mac.

 

[Meek Moths]

True and true.

interest, who do you think is better on the tier list, Ganon or Mac?

 

[MapleWooD]

interest, who do you think is better on the tier list, Ganon or Mac?

Little Mac is like Captain Falcon in Brawl, only worse. I think Ganon is higher, but they're both pretty low (assuming no customs)

 

[MarioMeteor]

interest, who do you think is better on the tier list, Ganon or Mac?

Good question. I suppose Mac, cause his overpowering ground game can cause trouble for even top tiers. Mac isn't hurt as badly by characters with good air games than Ganondorf is with speedy characters. Example: Jigglypuff is damn near unbeatable against Ganondorf, but Mac has an easier time, to the point where you could even call it even. I suppose that does kinda contradict my claim that Ganondorf is better than Mac, but that wasn't taking tiers into account.
Now with customs, on the other hand, the game changes completely. I can, without a shadow of doubt, say that custom Ganondorf is better than Little Mac.