A Guide To The Powerful Princess Zelda (3.5 Updated!)

[Captain Zack]

Captain Zack submitted a new guide:

A Guide To The Powerful Princess Zelda - An In-depth guide of Zelda's moveset and playstyle.

01. Intro
02. Quick questions
03. Moveset
04. Playstyle and use tips
05. Notes.

01. - Intro​

Zelda is one of the most powerful characters in Project M after being heavily buffed from her previous iterations. Her play-style is extremely unique due to her strange hitboxes and a projectile that functions like no other projectile in any other Smash game that I'm aware of.
Here a just a few terms that I will use that you may not...

Read more about this guide...

 

[4tlas]

You were very thorough in the moveset description, which is mostly a good thing. I think the Din's detonate after 3 seconds, not 5-7. That should be 6 "pulses" of the fire animation (don't remember if that counts the pulse from placing it or not). I know it feels like forever, but 3 seconds is actually quite a long time. Other than this I didn't notice any errors. I think the gifs are an EXCELLENT addition, as a visual aid is important to have adjacent to the information, and the exact frame data is hard for people to read anyway.

What I mean by "mostly a good thing" is that the objective of your guide is to help people learn Zelda, right? This information on her moveset is helpful, but also easily available elsewhere. What is not easy for a new player is to know 1) Where to find (more) information 2) which information to believe/use and 3) how to think about the information for themselves. As an experienced player, you know these things, and you can use this knowledge to help people.

I would recommend you add some things to the guide if you want to improve it.

1) Where to find more information. You could direct players to other locations on the forum or to the Zelda changelist on the wiki, for example. Obviously they know to browse the forum in general because they found your guide, but maybe there are other websites or threads with things to look at.

2) Which information to use. Backing up and elaborating on your analysis of Zelda would help readers understand why you are correct when they see conflicting advice elsewhere. Linking or embedding videos of actual matches where your information is put into practice is a good idea.

3) How to think about the information. Your guide has just touched the surface with analyzing the moveset and Zelda's playstyle, and maybe that's what you want. You have written a lot of what Zelda can do and even some of what she should do but you don't explain much of when or why. Of course there is way too much to possibly cover in a written guide, but insight into things like this is what a new player lacks most, and what they can get from you best.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm bashing on the guide! It's simply always easier to criticize what someone is lacking than praise what they have, sorry. You've done a very good job with what you have so far!

 

[Captain Zack]

oh thanks for the criticism I really didn't have the time to add all of that other stuff that I should have. i didn't really want this to be a behemoth of a guide, but just a small and simple one. i might add more in the future though

 

[Kaeldiar]

Haven't read the whole thing yet, but Din's explodes after 3 seconds of being placed. If you put another Din's out, the time refreshes as soon as the next Din's is placed.

 

[Captain Zack]

wow lol learn somethin noo everyday. i always thought it was 5 seconds

 

[4tlas]

I think its 5 "pulses", which can certainly feel like seconds during an intense match. But each one is actually a half second (and then it explodes on the 6th "pulse") I think.

 

[WhiteLightnin]

I think its 5 "pulses", which can certainly feel like seconds during an intense match. But each one is actually a half second (and then it explodes on the 6th "pulse") I think.

7 pulses counting the one it is placed on.

 

[artofskjet]

I may not be a Zelda player but I decided I would read through this and I don't think I saw you talk about Teledashing which seems to be important to Zelda.It's a great guide overall but if you want I think you could go a little more in depth kinda like this http://smashboards.com/guides/playing-with-ph1r3.62/. Anyway I enjoyed reading the guide though good work man.

 

[Captain Zack]

I may not be a Zelda player but I decided I would read through this and I don't think I saw you talk about Teledashing which seems to be important to Zelda.It's a great guide overall but if you want I think you could go a little more in depth kinda like this http://smashboards.com/guides/playing-with-ph1r3.62/. Anyway I enjoyed reading the guide though good work man.

"Strangely enough, when you input an Air dodge it cancels the move(only the grounded form), this form of cancelling is called Teledashing. This makes the move one of her best movements options, although the blast when she appears is gone. Using this move for mind games is one of her most useful options. She can Teledash and follow up a combo or surprise the opponent since this move is very fast" hope you didn't just skim through the guide and please don't compare me to another guide.

 

[artofskjet]

"Strangely enough, when you input an Air dodge it cancels the move(only the grounded form), this form of cancelling is called Teledashing. This makes the move one of her best movements options, although the blast when she appears is gone. Using this move for mind games is one of her most useful options. She can Teledash and follow up a combo or surprise the opponent since this move is very fast" hope you didn't just skim through the guide and please don't compare me to another guide.

I'm not trying to compare you and I didn't skim through it. I literally didn't see that sorry. I was just trying to help but I guess you had it covered. I was falling asleep when I read it sorry I offended you. I was just saying that if you want to you could go a bit more in depth in the guide kinda like with Sethlon's guide. I wasn't trying to compare the two guides.

 

[Captain Zack]

it's fine i just get annoyed when people say i should do this like that other person.

 

[artofskjet]

it's fine i just get annoyed when people say i should do this like that other person.

I wasn't going for that honestly your guide is great. I mostly read it because my friend/dubs partner mains Zelda and I found it useful. It's up to you on how in depth you want to go with the guide. I was giving you an example on what I meant and Sethlon's guide just seemed like a good example because of how deep he went into the guide.

 

[4tlas]

I wasn't going for that honestly your guide is great. I mostly read it because my friend/dubs partner mains Zelda and I found it useful. It's up to you on how in depth you want to go with the guide. I was giving you an example on what I meant and Sethlon's guide just seemed like a good example because of how deep he went into the guide.

Well doubles is a different beast entirely, and honestly I wish we had some real analysis on doubles partnerings out on the internet. This guide tells you what Zelda can do, and that will help you with your partner. But even if you read up on all the advice for tactics for Zelda out there, you still won't know what she should do in doubles!

Here are a few things to consider, hopefully they will help you. Zelda's main mobility option is the teledash, as was mentioned. This option works because it is so non-committal and (if you use it correctly) unpredictable. You COULD appear in front of them and dash attack, grab, jab, ftilt, fsmash, dsmash...etc. You COULD appear behind them and do all these. You COULD not teledash and appear with the explosion. You COULD teleport away and set up din's before they can react. You COULD teledash in front of them but from a different distance, changing up the timing of your attack. They have no idea what you are going to do, because you have the whole stage to work with.

In doubles, you don't have this advantage. Much of the stage is taken up by the hitboxes of the other 2 players. If you are far enough away to teledash in the first place, you are either on the far end of the stage and thus your teammate is fighting a 2v1, or you are close to your teammate and opponent and should be 2v1ing instead of ditching for a 2v2. If you do need to help your teammate who is 2v1ing, you cannot teledash behind the opponent into the cluster**** on the other side, so you lose an option, and you can't retreat to set up din's because that leaves your teammate in an even worse position, so you lose another option.

But it still has a place, and that is turning a 1v1 and 1v1 into a 2v1 instantly. Have your Zelda partner dash onto the other side of the opponent from you (whichever side that is) and surprise them. Their other option is clearly to approach their original opponent, which they can still do sometimes.

Other than that, Zelda has no mobility at all. So what prevents the opponents from 2v1ing you all the time? Her Din support and her deadly moves. As long as you play a character that can zone them in some way (so, like, not...squirtle? or sonic? idk I don't play these characters), you can zone opponents into Zelda's strong punishes. Her other option is to place Din's on the opposite side of opponents from you. This way opponents have to maneuver around them but you hopefully don't, and if they walk into one you can punish them with it. Be careful of the explosions though! I have way too many teammates forget about the Din and they explode on them...

Oh also she can still edgeguard like a god, even if nowhere near the edge and you are the real edgeguarder. She can just place some low or far Dins, forcing the recoverer to go around them, and then you can do an easy edguard/hog.

One last thing: work with your partner on coordinating who will punish when. In doubles it is often difficult to get a full combo string off (which Zelda will help break with Dins if you are getting combo'd) due to the presence of other players, but Zelda doesn't need to combo as much as other characters (in fact, she can't usually)! When you will have to end the combo anyway and Zelda IS in position to do it, try to let her (if your teammate is good at that kind of thing). Her Lightning Kicks are quick and efficient, which lets you both quickly switch focus to the opponent that isn't getting destroyed if necessary. You certainly don't want to both go for the finisher and have her Lightning Kick you too!

 

[artofskjet]

Well doubles is a different beast entirely, and honestly I wish we had some real analysis on doubles partnerings out on the internet. This guide tells you what Zelda can do, and that will help you with your partner. But even if you read up on all the advice for tactics for Zelda out there, you still won't know what she should do in doubles!

Here are a few things to consider, hopefully they will help you. Zelda's main mobility option is the teledash, as was mentioned. This option works because it is so non-committal and (if you use it correctly) unpredictable. You COULD appear in front of them and dash attack, grab, jab, ftilt, fsmash, dsmash...etc. You COULD appear behind them and do all these. You COULD not teledash and appear with the explosion. You COULD teleport away and set up din's before they can react. You COULD teledash in front of them but from a different distance, changing up the timing of your attack. They have no idea what you are going to do, because you have the whole stage to work with.

In doubles, you don't have this advantage. Much of the stage is taken up by the hitboxes of the other 2 players. If you are far enough away to teledash in the first place, you are either on the far end of the stage and thus your teammate is fighting a 2v1, or you are close to your teammate and opponent and should be 2v1ing instead of ditching for a 2v2. If you do need to help your teammate who is 2v1ing, you cannot teledash behind the opponent into the cluster**** on the other side, so you lose an option, and you can't retreat to set up din's because that leaves your teammate in an even worse position, so you lose another option.

But it still has a place, and that is turning a 1v1 and 1v1 into a 2v1 instantly. Have your Zelda partner dash onto the other side of the opponent from you (whichever side that is) and surprise them. Their other option is clearly to approach their original opponent, which they can still do sometimes.

Other than that, Zelda has no mobility at all. So what prevents the opponents from 2v1ing you all the time? Her Din support and her deadly moves. As long as you play a character that can zone them in some way (so, like, not...squirtle? or sonic? idk I don't play these characters), you can zone opponents into Zelda's strong punishes. Her other option is to place Din's on the opposite side of opponents from you. This way opponents have to maneuver around them but you hopefully don't, and if they walk into one you can punish them with it. Be careful of the explosions though! I have way too many teammates forget about the Din and they explode on them...

Oh also she can still edgeguard like a god, even if nowhere near the edge and you are the real edgeguarder. She can just place some low or far Dins, forcing the recoverer to go around them, and then you can do an easy edguard/hog.

One last thing: work with your partner on coordinating who will punish when. In doubles it is often difficult to get a full combo string off (which Zelda will help break with Dins if you are getting combo'd) due to the presence of other players, but Zelda doesn't need to combo as much as other characters (in fact, she can't usually)! When you will have to end the combo anyway and Zelda IS in position to do it, try to let her (if your teammate is good at that kind of thing). Her Lightning Kicks are quick and efficient, which lets you both quickly switch focus to the opponent that isn't getting destroyed if necessary. You certainly don't want to both go for the finisher and have her Lightning Kick you too!

Pretty helpful stuff dude thanks

 

[4tlas]

I probably should've noticed this before, since you have all those Marth flairs, but I'm going to assume you play Marth?

I think Marth + Zelda would make for a great combo. She will rarely screw up supporting with Dins since you will probably accidentally swipe them out of your way anyway, and opponents will not only be zoned a good distance from you toward Zelda, but you have the ability to push that zone of control forward consistently with fairs.

You might be able to get some extra recovery (even if edgeguarding) by having Zelda place a Din. If you upB first and don't hit it (maybe she needs to place it after, during your hangtime), you can refresh it by hitting the Din. Alternatively she can knock you toward the stage by placing a Din on you but on your far side. These don't work so well with Marth because his upB gives little horizontal distance, so refreshing it might not help all that much, but maybe you can get them to work.

 

[Captain Zack]

Captain Zack updated A Guide To The Powerful Princess Zelda with a new update entry:

Added a new section - When and Why to use each move. Changed to 3.5 version.

01. Intro
02. Quick questions
03. Moveset
04. Playstyle and use tips
05. Notes.

01. - Intro​

Zelda is one of the most powerful characters in Project M after being heavily buffed from her previous iterations. Her play-style is extremely unique due to her strange hitboxes and a projectile that functions like no other projectile in any other Smash game that I'm aware of.
Here a just a few terms that I will use that you may not...

Read the rest of this update entry...

Btw guys don't forget to send in my guide to the guide contest if you like it xoxo<3.

 

[4tlas]

Just some helpful corrections and advice again =)

Reverse lightning kick: you forgot to take out the Brawl sweetspot
Nayrus: you say "if you land this move", which makes it sounds like if you HIT this move. Say "if you land DURING this move" instead to avoid confusion. Also you say there are no invuln frames, but that is only while in the air. The ground version still has them.
Dins: Dins explodes after 3 seconds, not 5-7. Also I think the damage values have changed for explosion and mine.
Teleport: You can shorten the teleport at any time, not just if grounded. You might want to mention you can use this ability to sweetspot ledges.

Advice for opposing campers: I agree that the best possible thing to do to campers is outcamp them if possible, but if your opponent CAN outcamp you then your advice is actually really bad here. You might want to add how to carefully approach to this part, which I think mostly relies on placing a Din to cover yourself then teledashing toward/past the opponent.

Sorry if I missed anything! I just skimmed the parts that I thought you'd have changed.

 

[Kaeldiar]

Just some helpful corrections and advice again =)
Nayrus: you say "if you land this move", which makes it sounds like if you HIT this move. Say "if you land DURING this move" instead to avoid confusion. Also you say there are no invuln frames, but that is only while in the air. The ground version still has them.
Dins: Dins explodes after 3 seconds
Teleport: You can shorten the teleport at any time, not just if grounded. You might want to mention you can use this ability to sweetspot ledges.
Sorry if I missed anything! I just skimmed the parts that I thought you'd have changed.

Nayru's can be canceled if you land a few frames after the hitboxes disappear. It used to be as soon as the hitboxes disappear, but they pushed it back a little bit. I'm not sure exactly how much, because I haven't had time to test it, and the changelog doesn't say exactly.

Din's explodes after 4 seconds. This is new to 3.5

Teledash is no longer used as a term, because it was a portmanteau of Teleport and Wavedash (seeing as you could wavedash out of the teleport). Teledash is used to refer to the 3.02 mechanic. Telecancel from ground to ground has the same endlag as Teledash (+2 frames, because Magus goofed, but it'll be fixed in the next patch). If shortened properly, you can have this same "lessened" endlag from ground to platform, from air to ground, or ground to platform. It's tricky, but greatly improves her ability to recover safely.

 

[4tlas]

Nayru's can be canceled if you land a few frames after the hitboxes disappear. It used to be as soon as the hitboxes disappear, but they pushed it back a little bit. I'm not sure exactly how much, because I haven't had time to test it, and the changelog doesn't say exactly.

Din's explodes after 4 seconds. This is new to 3.5

Teledash is no longer used as a term, because it was a portmanteau of Teleport and Wavedash (seeing as you could wavedash out of the teleport). Teledash is used to refer to the 3.02 mechanic. Telecancel from ground to ground has the same endlag as Teledash (+2 frames, because Magus goofed, but it'll be fixed in the next patch). If shortened properly, you can have this same "lessened" endlag from ground to platform, from air to ground, or ground to platform. It's tricky, but greatly improves her ability to recover safely.

I don't know about the Dins part, but the endlag from air to ground is a little longer than ground/platform to ground/platform.

 

[Kaeldiar]

I don't know about the Dins part, but the endlag from air to ground is a little longer than ground/platform to ground/platform.

Yes, that's correct. I didn't clarify that.

 

[Captain Zack]

thank you so much for the criticism! i'm really sorry about those problems, i will edit them before the guide contest is over. thank you<3

i edited what you said, thank you so much @ 4tlas and @ Kaeldiar

 

[Captain Zack]

Captain Zack updated A Guide To The Powerful Princess Zelda (3.5 Updated!) with a new update entry:

New section - Match Ups.

added a new section, just a test section mostly.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Captain Zack]

Captain Zack updated A Guide To The Powerful Princess Zelda (3.5 Updated!) with a new update entry:

Added color.

Color coded the sections.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[drumdog]

Could anyone comment on the Ganon or Ness matchups? Those seem to be my toughest adversaries next to foxes

 

[4tlas]

Could anyone comment on the Ganon or Ness matchups? Those seem to be my toughest adversaries next to foxes

I think both should be in Zelda's favor, but if you make a few mistakes you should get demolished.

In my opinion, Zelda should win neutral against Ganon more often than not. His attacks are so slow and he has no quick approach options, so Dins is a huge problem for him. If he likes to waveland as an approach, place a Dins at eye level. Just be careful of getting downB'd through it. Ganon's recovery is also easily edgeguarded by Zelda. Place a Dins to force him to recover away from the ledge, then either lightning kick, stomp, or nair him back out into the abyss. Extra points if he still has to bounce off the Dins before/after you hit him.

Ness has a similar problem as Ganon, but at least he has a projectile and can absorb Dins for health. Instead he has short stubby limbs. Again, Ness has no fast approach options and you can edgeguard him to hell and back. Since most Nesses can't resist going for djc or wavebounced (or b-reversed or w/e) moves, I like to place the Dins at Zelda's height or above. If they stop to absorb it you get a punish, and if they dont they are probably too busy moving like crazy to throw out a clanking hitbox, netting you a punish.

Unfortunately, both of these characters will punish you HARD if you get hit in neutral. Ganon only needs 2 hits to rack up 30-40% on you, and every hit after that puts you in an edgeguard situation (or at least terrible stage positioning). He wasn't going to combo that much anyway, so your floatiness doesn't do you much good. Ness can combo you despite your floatiness (due to fair, nair, dair, grabs, and jab resets) and land his lightning kick-esque backair to ruin your day.

 

[Captain Zack]

just upsmash ganon and reflect ness's stuff then upsmash him

 

[drumdog]

Thanks for the help, just did a bunch of matches, and they resorted to calling zelda op. I do love the up smash chains

 

[Kaeldiar]

Thanks for the help, just did a bunch of matches, and they resorted to calling zelda op. I do love the up smash chains

That tends to happen a lot...Zelda sucks if they DI properly. If they miss it... :D

 

[Captain Zack]

That tends to happen a lot...Zelda sucks if they DI properly. If they miss it... :D

if they DI it properly you still get another upsmash

 

[4tlas]

I've seen people SDI out of it.

 

[Downdraft]

I've seen people SDI out of it.

I might have observed that a time or two, but f-smash is the move that gets SDI'd out of.
Thank goodness it's not Smash 4 levels of bad.

 

[Captain Zack]

up smash is still one of her best moves and SDI'ing out of it is almost impossible anyway.

 

[drumdog]

And I really haven't seen anyone di out of f smash either

 

[Captain Zack]

gurl that's silly cuz it's ez DI.

 

[Downdraft]

And I really haven't seen anyone di out of f smash either

All I know is that I've had opponents not get hit by the entirety of the attack. For instance, I'll f-smash someone recovering not sweetspotting the ledge, and they'll fall straight down. It's not a problem though since this rarely happens.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Pretty good guide overall, however there is no mention of the Nayru's Love, Farore's Wind, and Transformation Wave-bounce mechanics.

 

[GMaster171]

The only time anyone will ever get out of any of her smashes is if you snag them while they have a hurtbox extended. If you hit their actual body they will be sucked in, no SDI will escape once they are already getting hit.

 

[Captain Zack]

Pretty good guide overall, however there is no mention of the Nayru's Love, Farore's Wind, and Transformation Wave-bounce mechanics.

i refrained from putting almost useless techniques in my guide for filler space.

 

[flying_tortoise]

i refrained from putting almost useless techniques in my guide for filler space.

That could've been reworded so much better

like "I personally don't feel as they are useful enough to be put in the guide, as it is getting pretty big already"

 

[4tlas]

I use Farore's and Transform momentum glitches to GREAT effect. Though they are not remotely useless, I don't know if they are too advanced and situational for this guide. After all, guides are generally supposed to be a first resource for the person who knows nothing, and advanced techniques are usually something they will want to research on their own.