Official 4BR Tier List V3 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Das Koopa]

EVO Beta pools are out! Nothing in these is final, and due to how it's formatted, Round 1 pools is going to be really pointless to talk about here, so I'm going to to over hypothetical early matchups in round 2 pools, barring upsets.

Disclaimer: The spoiler below contains entirely hypothetical matches that may not happen due to changes in pool and upsets, this is a sorta-guess based on a projected beta bracket, and this should not be taken as the truth.

Spoiler: Big

G200: Nairo vs FOW is the predicted winners finals of the pool, and I think FOW could give Nairo a real run for his money. Also projected to be in this pool are Saj. , Mr. E , Pugwest , and DKWill , with only one of these four making it out alive, assuming they don't upset either Nairo or FOW.

Interesting potential matchups: Mr. E vs Pugwest , Mr. E vs Saj. , FOW vs Mr. E

Other wildcards: Bt. Yamato , Wii Twerk Trainer

~~~~

G201: Larry Lurr vs Tsu- is the projected winners finals here. Given the matchup, I feel like Larry's DK could probably make an appearance, as well as Tsu-'s Ryu for the DK or even the Fox. Ac is projected to fight Tsu-, which could probably go either way. How easy is it for MK to Ladder Lucario? There's also a ton of wildcards in this pool, including Rain , JJROCKETS , Kogarasuma , and Aarvark .

Interesting potential matches: Tsu- vs Kogarasuma , Ac vs JJROCKETS

~~~~

G202: VoiD vs Raito is the projected winners finals here. I'm pretty sure these two have played before, at CEO Dreamland, and the matchup seems pretty bad for DHD all things considered, so I'd say VoiD is pretty heavily favoured here, although Raito will put up a fight. To get to Winners finals, VoiD has to fight Umeki , a matchup that Sheik mains have had issues with, while Raito has to fight Rich Brown . I wouldn't be surprised if either of these two got upsetted, although between the two I'd say Umeki's more likely to beat VoiD than Rich is to beat Raito.

Interesting potential matches: Umeki vs Konga , Rich Brown vs DJ Jack , Rich Brown vs Konga , Rich Brown vs Umeki

Other wildcards: Konga , Deathorse , DJ Jack

~~~~

G203: KEN vs ANTi here. I think it's unlikely ANTi will stay Mario for the whole thing, and he usually tries ZSS vs Sonic over any other character. I'd favour KEN here, although I don't know what his record vs Choco is so I'm not really sure how he fares vs ZSS, or how ANTi's Cloud will impact it. ikep is projected to fight KEN, and I'm not sure if he's beaten KEN before but that's an upset waiting to happen potentially. ANTi, on the other hand, has to face Myran , which could also easily go Myran's way, although obviously ANTi is favoured.

Other wildcards: John Numbers , Ven , SS

Interesting potential matches: John Numbers vs Myran , ikep vs SS , ikep vs John Numbers , ikep vs Myran

~~~~

G204: Abadango vs Locus , in what's otherwise a pretty quiet pool. I'd say Aba is the more likely of the two to come out on top, but this one could honestly go either way. Aba may also go Rosa, although that's unlikely, and I doubt Locus's Bayo is ready for this. The only other super notable people in this pool are Dath and Lima .

Interesting potential matches: Dath vs Abadango , Lima vs Dath

~~~~

G205: Mr. R vs Elegant is projected here. I'd favour Mr. R here based on matchup, and I don't think they've fought Sheik-Luigi, have they? I know Mr. R went Cloud vs him at a MSM. Mr. R notably could to fight DarkShad , and while I don't doubt he's improved in the matchup since his loss to Locus last december, it's still a possible upset.

Other wildcards: Tyrant (I doubt he'll beat Elegant otherwise I'd have put him up there ^), Bloodcross , Xaltis

Interesting potential matches: Tyrant vs Bloodcross , Xaltis vs DarkShad ,

~~~~

G206: Tweek vs Kameme . I think Kameme won the last time they played, but I'm not sure? I could see this starting as Cloud-Mega Man but switching to DK-Sheik by the end of the set. Might also see Kameme's Yoshi vs the DK, he did that vs M2K's DK. Eon is also projected to face Tweek in semis of the pool, and he has beaten Komo twice, so there's the possibility for an upset there. Luhtie faces Kameme, but I think Kameme's Sheik will be able to handle that.

Other wildcards: Ri-ma , Vinnie

Interesting potential matches: Eon vs Ri-ma , Vinnie vs Eon , Luhtie vs Ri-ma , Ri-ma vs Vinnie

~~~~

G207: Kirihara vs Fatality . Kirihara's in some serious trouble here. He's fallen to Fatality in the past, and Japan in general gets hard countered by Falcon, so it'll be very rough for him. Interestingly enough, they both fight good Foxes to get to winners finals in ZD and NAKAT . ZD's beaten Fatality in the past, but it's NAKAT that fights Fatality this time, and I could definitely see the upset happening.

Other wildcards: Blacktwins ,

Interesting potential matches: NAKAT vs Blacktwins , NAKAT vs ZD (I think he'll go Ness)

~~~~

H200: ZeRo vs Nietono . Unfortunately, ZeRo's so good at the Sheik matchup that I can't see Nietono putting up much of a fight here. Stranger things have happened, and I'm not going to count Nietono out completely, but it's a very hard fight for him. SGK gets her runback vs ZeRo in semis of the pool, and Sonics have been regularly pushing ZeRo to game 5 recently, so I think the biggest chance for a ZeRo upset lies with her. Nietono fights Edge in a japanese teamkill, and I think Edge has a fair shot of taking it over Nietono, leading to a Diddy Ditto finals of the pool.

Other wildcards: Seagull Joe , ImHip , FILIP

Interesting potential matches: SuperGirlKels vs Seagull Joe , Edge vs Nietono ImHip vs Nietono , Edge vs SuperGirlKels

~~~~

H201: MKLeo vs WaDi . If Leo aba is any indication, Leo has a firm grasp on this MU, and while WaDi plays quite a bit different from Aba, I still think it's heavily favoured for Leo. Perhaps more interestingly, WaDi plays Earth in semis. I'd say Earth has a better chance against Leo than WaDi, but Earth has to beat WaDi first, which could be difficult.

Other wildcards: Xzax , False

Interesting potential matches: WaDi vs Earth , Xzax vs MKLeo , Earth vs False , Xzax vs Earth

~~~~

H202: Ally faces off against MVD . MVD's gotten a ton better and I think he'll make Ally work for it, but Ally's also most likely the best in the world against Diddy, if his wins vs ZeRo are any indication. Ally has to face Chanshu in semis, which I think is good upset potential, considering how good Chanshu is. MVD also fights Wrath , which will be a real test of his patience.

Other wildcards: KOSSismoss , Charliedaking

Interesting potential matches: Chanshu vs KOSSismoss , Wrath vs Charliedaking , Wrath vs Chanshu , Chanshu vs Ally

~~~~

H203: Dabuz vs 9B is the projected finals here. Kinda like with Ally/MVD, I can see 9B putting up a good fight, but Dabuz is one of the best in the world vs Bayonetta. They did play before at Shots Fired 2, but that was a patch ago and both Dabuz and 9B have changed styles to be more offensive since then. Dabuz faces Takera in semis of the pool, and while I think Takera is a top 2 Ryu in regards to skill, he's got one heck of a challenge for him in Dabuz. 9B faces Static Manny in semis, in what could be the longest set of the tournament.

Other wildcards: K9Sbruce , 8BitMan

Interesting potential matches: 9B vs Static Manny , Takera vs Static Manny , Takera vs 8BitMan , K9Sbruce vs Static Manny

~~~~

H204: Salem vs Falln . I'm curious to see if Salem's inability to beat Dabuz is a Rosa problem or a Dabuz problem, and I guess we might get an idea of that here. Falln has to run a Bayo gauntlet actually, he fights JK in semis. Salem, on the other hand, fights Eim . That could be interesting since Sheik is being considered to be somewhat worse off for Bayo now(?), although given most of japan's DI/SDI habits vs Bayo, I'm not holding my breath.

Other wildcards: Sol , Vash

Interesting potential matches: Falln vs JK , Salem vs Eim , JK vs Eim

~~~~

H205: Komorikiri vs Samsora . Finally, a bracket where it looks like Samsora doesn't have to fight a good MK! That being said, Komo's going to be no easy task, either with Cloud or with his incredibly patient Sonic. Komo vs Ryuga in semis is going to be interesting, as Ryuga's actually really good and could be a huge threat to Komo. Samsora runs the Mario gauntlet of RFang and Zenyou to get to Komo, although Peach appears to be one of Mario's hardest matchups.

Other wildcards: RFang , Captain L

Interesting potential matchups: Captain L vs Ryuga , Ryuga vs Komorikiri , Ryuga vs Zenyou

(Captain L got a super unforgiving bracket, damn)

~~~~

H206: Projected finals is Captain Zack vs Zinoto . Is the Diddy-Bayo matchup still considered Bayo's worst, or are people saying it's Cloud now? Regardless, this one's going to be interesting, or possibly another display of Bayo planking. Will Zinoto fare better against it than MVD? Zack fights Cosmos in semis, and Cosmos did beat Zack kinda convincingly recently, so that's going to be something to watch out for.

Other wildcards: Pink Fresh (Very doubtful he'll beat Zinoto), Ling Ling

Interesting potential matches: Captain Zack vs Cosmos , Zinoto vs Cosmos , Ling Ling vs Pink Fresh, Pink Fresh vs Cosmos

~~~~

H207: This is the pool to watch out for. Finals is currently projected to be Ranai vs ESAM , which I'd say ESAM, who's been playing on fire recently, would probably take. Ranai vs DLC is back again, this time in the form of Tyroy . I can't remember how Ranai does vs Bayos at the minute. ESAM fights Dyr in semis, and all his practice vs MVD should let him handle Dyr fairly easily.

Other wildcards: Mekos , IcyMist , Mistake , IxisNagus

Interesting potential matches: Ranai vs IcyMist , Tyroy vs Mekos , Mekos vs IcyMist , Dyr vs Mekos , Mistake vs Tyroy , Dyr vs Mistake

~~~~
Again, this is all just off of the beta pools, and projected seedings, so this could be fairly off by the time EVO rolls around in two weeks. I also want to emphasize these are round 2 pools, not round 1 pools, as I found halfway through a round 1 pool post that it was really pointless since no exciting matches were happening until R2 pools.

I spent way more time on this than I should have.

Totally missed this post lol

Brief comments on this

-Suinoko vs. Mr. R is round 2 of R2 pools. Suinoko is in the same echelon as Kome & Hiro, a part of the group of Kyushu (Shuton's region) that occasionally do well in tournaments. I think it'd be foolhardy to call it a surefire upset, but it's one I'd keep my eye on.

-Ri-ma vs. Tweek is plausible, and Ri-ma has a set on Komo. Ri-ma's kind of fallen off since TBH6 but I think if he has it in the tank to beat Eon that he'll probably also run through Tweek. Tweek tends to fare less well at multi-day majors and Japan does well vs. Cloud, usually, and rarely is destroyed by him even if they lose (See Leo's very shaky run at Umebura, dropping games to Masashi/Choco/Kirihara before getting destroyed by KEN) so I think Ri-ma will be very well prepared.


H207 is the most volatile on the list. I expect Tyroy to come out of it but I could be wrong.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

I saw this question on Reddit and I thought it would be interesting to ask it here:

What character has the most "anti-potential" to you? In other words, what character gets good results but still bad according to you?

 

[Heracr055]

I imagine Ryu would be a popular answer for that question. He's been built up as a character with excellent potential. However, despite his decent results, he catches a lot of flack for not winning a major. Other posters expressed dissatisfaction of his placement on the tier list above other characters with 'better results'.

 

[|RK|]

I saw this question on Reddit and I thought it would be interesting to ask it here:

What character has the most "anti-potential" to you? In other words, what character gets good results but still bad according to you?

Same thing as the "who's most overrated" question, IMO.

Same answer for me - Sanic

 

[FeelMeUp]

Link, Fox, Marth, Sonic, Ryu, etc.
On the other side of things, I think Olimar/Falcon are bonkers.

 

[Rizen]

No footage of albion 2 yet, but here's a recent set between Gluttony and Fatality in grand finals, probably some of the best displays of Warios combos, kill setups, and offstage game.

Gluttony is a beast!

The main reason is that Marth has way better forward-facing arcing hitboxes: f-air, f-tilt, Dancing Blade, and even jab or n-air. Just one of these moves is better than Mewtwo's entire kit at dealing with short hopping opponents or stuffing other grounded movement options, but Marth has like five. Mewtwo's d-tilt is a great move, similar to Marth's own d-tilt, but it doesn't hit an aerial opponent, and f-air has too small of a hitbox to be used in a wide variety of situations in neutral.

Mewtwo does have a good anti-aerial Utilt that hits in front like Marth's Ftilt. His Dtilt is better than Marth's in terms of frame data and combo potential too. Marth's frame 5 long jab and crescent aerial slashes are what put him above Mewtwo at close range. But neutral isn't exclusively footsies; Mewtwo's shadow ball, airdodge drifting and command grab paired with better mobility are big. Mewtwo's grab is smaller but his grab reward is much higher. It's hard to say who's neutral is better because they're so different.

I saw this question on Reddit and I thought it would be interesting to ask it here:

What character has the most "anti-potential" to you? In other words, what character gets good results but still bad according to you?

, she deserves to be at the top of high tier but I don't see her going up further. : I'm not saying they should be lower but I don't think there will be any big meta developments that suddenly boost them or give them a better MU vs whatever relevant high/top tiers.

 

[TDK]

Ryuga in the same pool as Komorikiri, Samsora, and Zenyou. Cosmos in the same pool as Captain Zack, Zinoto, and Pink Fresh. Only two in each pool makes it out? Three bad MUs for Cosmos, one for Ryuga. Will either of them pull off an upset?

Will we see any Earth Corrin or MkLeo Corrin? That would be hype too.

Three make it out. The two who make it to pools finals make it out, and their fight determines winners or losers, and whoever wins pools losers finals makes it out.

I saw this question on Reddit and I thought it would be interesting to ask it here:

What character has the most "anti-potential" to you? In other words, what character gets good results but still bad according to you?

Pit, by far.

On another note, what's the number 1 thing that held Gluto back at Civil War? 65th at freaking Civil War is by no means bad, but was it really just running into Shulk that stopped him?

 

[Lord Dio]

On another note, what's the number 1 thing that held Gluto back at Civil War? 65th at freaking Civil War is by no means bad, but was it really just running into Shulk that stopped him?

Didn't he run into two shulks? Iiirc he lost to two sword characters and someone commented his disjoint problem....

 

[YerTheBestAROUND]

I don't think any character is "anti-potential". I think there are ways for every character to improve their meta and gameplay, but having potential for improvement does not inherently mean rising higher on the tier list, like it seems that many of you believe. There's too many options and methods of change in this game for me to ever believe that it's so clear cut these characters have nothing to improve on.

I will say that some characters do have more easily observable areas that they can improve on in the near future, and characters like Captain Falcon come to mind.

 

[Ilikebugs]

The most overrated character is Roy. His results don't change the character's tools and I think he is overhyped rn, I expect his results to die down like other lowmid tiers.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

The most overrated character is Roy. His results don't change the character's tools and I think he is overhyped rn, I expect his results to die down like other lowmid tiers.

Roy's still heavily in debate on whether or not he's actually good enough for serious tournament play. Most people for him state he has the potential to be high tier when he's still in the developing phase for most people.
So overrated is way too great of a statement, especially consider to other characters like Fox, Corrin, Sonic, Mario and Cloud.

 

[TurboLink]

Roy's still heavily in debate on whether or not he's actually good enough for serious tournament play. Most people for him state he has the potential to be high tier when he's still in the developing phase for most people.
So overrated is way too great of a statement, especially consider to other characters like Fox, Corrin, Sonic, Mario and Cloud.

Except all those characters have significantly better results than Roy. Roy has little to no results and I don't see how anyone could think Roy is ever going to be high tier. The very notion of it is laughable.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Except all those characters have significantly better results than Roy. Roy has little to no results and I don't see how anyone could think Roy is ever going to be high tier. The very notion of it is laughable.

The same people who thought that post 1.1.6 patch was no longer top tier. only has a few results but none? These past months he has already gotten better results than the entirety of 2016 alone.

 

[TDK]

S@X 07/04/17 (53 Entrants) (MDVA)

1st: Zephyr
2rd: ZD
3rd: Parappa
4th: Seagull Joe

5th: Serynder

 

[The-Technique]

So during Nairo's stream last night, he was debating with Ksizzle and Gunblade as to whether or not he should dedicate more time toward secondaries, particularly against Zero. IMO I feel like his ZSS has brought him consistent success over the years, and that switching to secondaries mid-set doesn't really work out in the long term. Moreover, Nairo's hurdle against Zero is mainly the player matchup rather than character one, given that he has a positive record against every other Diddy Kong. The only character I can think of that could maybe do well against Zero's style is maybe Lucina, no other character comes to mind honestly.

 

[Krysco]

Didn't Abadango do better vs ZeRo with his secondary MK as opposed to his main Mewtwo? Not too sure if ZeRo himself has faired better vs Ally's Mario with his Lucina rather than his Diddy.

Or, ya know, could always go Diddy, Sheik, Falcon and get bodied.

Edit: too hasty posting~ point was that more time spent on secondaries for Nairo could prove useful...or it could end horribly. He does at least have plenty of options.

 

[Minordeth]

Nairo's problem is a player vs player problem, yes, but that player happens to be the best in the world and also plays the character that his has a bad MU with. Although, ironically, his Mewtwo did the best of the three characters he played in GFs, and the Diddy MU isn't thought to be particularly good for Mewtwo. Buuuut, Mewtwo gives Nairo an actual ground poke and a stupid powerful rising aerial, among other things, which may outweigh the other disadvantages.

 

[Das Koopa]

Spoiler: Midwest Mayhem 9: Old vs. New (July 1st) (Midwest) (300 Entrants) (Category 3)

1st: ZeRo
2nd: Nairo ,
3rd: Tweek ,
4th: Captain Zack
5th: Zinoto
5th: Tyroy ,
7th: Mystearica
7th: Cosmos
9th: Ned
9th: Ryuga
9th: Das
9th: DarkShad
13th: Nom
13th: Skorpio
13th: Seth
13th: Sheen ,

Spoiler: Umebura 27 (July 1st) (Kanto) (220 Entrants) (Category 3)

1st: Abadango
2nd: Kirihara
3rd: Choco
4th: tsu ,
5th: Earth ,
5th: takera
7th: Kameme ,
7th: KEN
9th: bAhuto
9th: Mao
9th: 9B
9th: Raito
13th: Lea
13th: Nietono
13th: Kishiru
13th: Edge

Spoiler: Albion 2 (July 1st) (United Kingdom) (306 Entrants) (Category 3)

1st: Glutonny
2nd: cyve
3rd: MagiMagi
4th: IxisNaugus
5th: OwlBBs ,
5th: Supahsemmie
7th: M
7th: wusi
9th: Ramses
9th: Purple H
9th: Meru
9th: Afro Smash
13th: Peli
13th: Yackabean
13th: Lucretio
13th: Dr. DORF

Spoiler: Super Smashnest v16 (July 1st) (Pacific Northwest) (88 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Konga
2nd: Shinkou ,
3rd: Pokepen ,
4th: Justice
5th: ianology
5th: SilentRain ,
7th: Pyreeze
7th: Locke

Spoiler: UNLOCKED (July 1st) (Florida) (102 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Salem
2nd: ESAM
3rd: ScAtt
4th: Manny
5th: Mew2King ,
5th: Samsora
7th: Cashmere
7th: Mute Ace

Spoiler: ALPHA (July 1st) (Tristate) (109 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Dabuz
2nd: WaDi ,
3rd: John Numbers
4th: LingLing
5th: Angel Cortes
5th: Light
7th: dekillsage .
7th: Frozen

Spoiler: Xanadu Monthly July (July 1st) (MD/VA) (40 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Parappa ,
2nd: Pink Fresh
3rd: Seagull Joe ,
4th: Tension

Spoiler: Smash @ Lomas Bar 6 (July 1st) (Mexico) (48 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Regi
2nd: Waymas
3rd: Terro ,
4th: Tun

Spoiler: Canada Cup: Vancouver (July 1st) (Pacific Northwest) (23 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Big D
2nd: Captain L
3rd: Espeon CH
4th: Kantrip

Spoiler: Denti’s Bizarre Adventure 6 (July 1st) (South) (47 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Lima
2nd: Awestin
3rd: Jayson ,
4th: Hakii

Spoiler: Run, Don’t Walk (July 1st) (Midwest) (43 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: sinnyboo242 ,
2nd: MJG
3rd: Nameless
4th: Skillager

Spoiler: UQ Smash Final Destination 2 (July 1st) (Australia) (72 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Jaice ,
2nd: Yehya
3rd: Ignis ,
4th: Curtain

Spoiler: University Street Battle 1 (July 1st) (Pacific Northwest) (44 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Locus
2nd: Big D ,
3rd: Bishly
4th: FoCus

Spoiler: Updated Character Scores

Bayonetta: 362
Diddy Kong: 314.5
Cloud: 308.5
Sonic: 211.5
Sheik: 197
Mario: 196
Zero Suit Samus: 182
Fox: 179.5
Rosalina & Luma: 158
Mewtwo: 136
Ryu: 126.5
Meta Knight: 102.5
Mega Man: 101.5
Corrin: 84
Captain Falcon: 76.5
Marth: 75.5
Peach: 71
Ness: 69.5
Villager: 69
Pikachu: 68
Donkey Kong: 66.5
Luigi: 62.5
Greninja: 61.5
Olimar: 56
Bowser: 55
Lucas: 53.5
Lucina: 53
Toon Link: 48.5
R.O.B.: 40.5
Mr. Game & Watch: 40.5
Samus: 38
Duck Hunt: 34
Yoshi: 31.5
Wii Fit Trainer: 26.5
Ike: 26
Charizard: 24.5
Lucario: 24
Robin: 21
Little Mac: 20
Roy: 18.5
Wario: 17
Link: 15
Pit: 15
Pac-Man: 13.5
Shulk: 12
Palutena: 11.5
King Dedede: 7
Ganondorf: 7
Falco: 6
Zelda: 5
Jigglypuff: 5
Bowser Jr.: 4
Mii Brawler: 3.5
Dark Pit: 2
Mii Gunner: 1

 

[Ziodyne 21]

No surprise Bayonetta's score skyrocketed after the amazing results from last weeks competions. I mean nearl 50 points ahead of Diddy in 2nd place . Wow

 

[TDK]

Toryumon Weekday Tournament x STUDIO SKY #7 (48 Players) (Japan)

1st: Kirihara
2nd: Abadango
3rd: Kameme
4th: Shky

5th: Earth
9th: Raito

 

[Poisonous]

Didn't he run into two shulks? Iiirc he lost to two sword characters and someone commented his disjoint problem....

Shulk honestly isn't a disastrous MU for Wario (slight disadvantage, nothing crazy like people assume), Glutonny's biggest problem at Civil War was that he held forward far too much. He lost to Day in losers 3-2 iirc, a MU Wario honestly has no place losing. It was sadly offstream, but most Warios anticipated that he was going to lose simply because of how he was playing at the point in time. Wario doesn't need to fight Lucario, rather he SHOULDN'T fight Lucario. There's no reason to, Wario is far more mobile and is passively gaining waft. A Lucario at 0% is non-existent, and even more so vs a mobile character that he can't pin down. It's a very lame timeout based MU and not fun for either side, but it works. Lucario is very susceptible to Wario's FS combos which lets nair setup into a kill confirm off waft at low %s if executed correctly, and his recovery is very slow and telegraphed at low %s.

He lost at Syndicate to Ixis, who is a solid Sonic in his own right but still not on Glutonny's level imo, because of this as well (although Wario Sonic is considered atrocious by most top Warios, Reflex for instance believes it is his worst MU). Glutonny holds some interesting opinions: he doesn't think Bayo/Sonic are that bad, but dislikes Rosa/Shulk. He's been cleaning his play up and playing more defensively when needed recently which is a huge relief, he 3-0'd or 3-1'd Ixis somewhat recently as a result. His Wario knowledge also isn't the best, for instance he didn't know how FF dair frame advantage worked until very recently. This means he has even more room for improvement/more potential which I'm personally looking forward to seeing.

A couple of misconceptions I've seen the past few days:

Falcon: Not one of Wario's better MUs, either slight Falcon favor or maybe even. Fatality additionally is the Falcon with the best Wario experience, so Glutonny beating him in two sets is even crazier. At %s where moves start putting fast fallers into tumble, reacting to them is nearly impossible so it's not surprising the he missed the techs that he did.

Dair spikes: Wario doesn't need to hit with only the first hit of dair to get the spike. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmFqGNxDpJw Reflex covers the topic here, but additionally a rising dair achieves the same thing. [tldw; any of the first 6 hits can spike if it trades with a move]

Reflex: Inactive as far as tournaments go, he's been to 1 tournament in the last year and only practiced a few times . He's still active in the Wario discord and helps any and all people who ask, a phenomenal resource for any Wario main and a blessing to have.

Why don't other Warios play like Glutonny: His fundamentals/skill far outshine any of the active Warios by a landslide. Even without having the Wario knowledge that Reflex has, Glutonny manages to accomplish crazy things. His consistency with footstool combos is insane, landing them in the first place is difficult enough but converting FF uair off them/going for the extended FS combos is even harder.

 

[Laken64]

Toryumon Weekday Tournament x STUDIO SKY #7 (48 Players) (Japan)

1st: Kirihara
2nd: Abadango
3rd: Kameme
4th: Shky

5th: Earth
9th: Raito

Kameme also won a game with cloud against Aba

 

[adom4]

Spoiler: Midwest Mayhem 9: Old vs. New (July 1st) (Midwest) (300 Entrants) (Category 3)

1st: ZeRo
2nd: Nairo ,
3rd: Tweek ,
4th: Captain Zack
5th: Zinoto
5th: Tyroy ,
7th: Mystearica
7th: Cosmos
9th: Ned
9th: Ryuga
9th: Das
9th: DarkShad
13th: Nom
13th: Skorpio
13th: Seth
13th: Sheen ,

Spoiler: Umebura 27 (July 1st) (Kanto) (220 Entrants) (Category 3)

1st: Abadango
2nd: Kirihara
3rd: Choco
4th: tsu ,
5th: Earth ,
5th: takera
7th: Kameme ,
7th: KEN
9th: bAhuto
9th: Mao
9th: 9B
9th: Raito
13th: Lea
13th: Nietono
13th: Kishiru
13th: Edge

Spoiler: Albion 2 (July 1st) (United Kingdom) (306 Entrants) (Category 3)

1st: Glutonny
2nd: cyve
3rd: MagiMagi
4th: IxisNaugus
5th: OwlBBs ,
5th: Supahsemmie
7th: M
7th: wusi
9th: Ramses
9th: Purple H
9th: Meru
9th: Afro Smash
13th: Peli
13th: Yackabean
13th: Lucretio
13th: Dr. DORF

Spoiler: Super Smashnest v16 (July 1st) (Pacific Northwest) (88 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Konga
2nd: Shinkou ,
3rd: Pokepen ,
4th: Justice
5th: ianology
5th: SilentRain ,
7th: Pyreeze
7th: Locke

Spoiler: UNLOCKED (July 1st) (Florida) (102 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Salem
2nd: ESAM
3rd: ScAtt
4th: Manny
5th: Mew2King ,
5th: Samsora
7th: Cashmere
7th: Mute Ace

Spoiler: ALPHA (July 1st) (Tristate) (109 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Dabuz
2nd: WaDi ,
3rd: John Numbers
4th: LingLing
5th: Angel Cortes
5th: Light
7th: dekillsage .
7th: Frozen

Spoiler: Xanadu Monthly July (July 1st) (MD/VA) (40 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Parappa ,
2nd: Pink Fresh
3rd: Seagull Joe ,
4th: Tension

Spoiler: Smash @ Lomas Bar 6 (July 1st) (Mexico) (48 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Regi
2nd: Waymas
3rd: Terro ,
4th: Tun

Spoiler: Canada Cup: Vancouver (July 1st) (Pacific Northwest) (23 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Big D
2nd: Captain L
3rd: Espeon CH
4th: Kantrip

Spoiler: Denti’s Bizarre Adventure 6 (July 1st) (South) (47 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Lima
2nd: Awestin
3rd: Jayson ,
4th: Hakii

Spoiler: Run, Don’t Walk (July 1st) (Midwest) (43 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: sinnyboo242 ,
2nd: MJG
3rd: Nameless
4th: Skillager

Spoiler: UQ Smash Final Destination 2 (July 1st) (Australia) (72 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Jaice ,
2nd: Yehya
3rd: Ignis ,
4th: Curtain

Spoiler: University Street Battle 1 (July 1st) (Pacific Northwest) (44 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Locus
2nd: Big D ,
3rd: Bishly
4th: FoCus

Spoiler: Updated Character Scores

Bayonetta: 362
Diddy Kong: 314.5
Cloud: 308.5
Sonic: 211.5
Sheik: 197
Mario: 196
Zero Suit Samus: 182
Fox: 179.5
Rosalina & Luma: 158
Mewtwo: 136
Ryu: 126.5
Meta Knight: 102.5
Mega Man: 101.5
Corrin: 84
Captain Falcon: 76.5
Marth: 75.5
Peach: 71
Ness: 69.5
Villager: 69
Pikachu: 68
Donkey Kong: 66.5
Luigi: 62.5
Greninja: 61.5
Olimar: 56
Bowser: 55
Lucas: 53.5
Lucina: 53
Toon Link: 48.5
R.O.B.: 40.5
Mr. Game & Watch: 40.5
Samus: 38
Duck Hunt: 34
Yoshi: 31.5
Wii Fit Trainer: 26.5
Ike: 26
Charizard: 24.5
Lucario: 24
Robin: 21
Little Mac: 20
Roy: 18.5
Wario: 17
Link: 15
Pit: 15
Pac-Man: 13.5
Shulk: 12
Palutena: 11.5
King Dedede: 7
Ganondorf: 7
Falco: 6
Zelda: 5
Jigglypuff: 5
Bowser Jr.: 4
Mii Brawler: 3.5
Dark Pit: 2
Mii Gunner: 1

Dr.Dorf also used DK in a few matches and won with him.

 

[Yikarur]

Calling Ixis a far cry from Glutonnys Level is completely wrong. Why would you say that?

 

[Das Koopa]

I really would never pin Ixis to take sets off of top 20 players, honestly, and Glutonny has done that multiple times.

I guess we'll see at EVO. ESAM and Ranai are both in his pool.

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

The most overrated character is Roy. His results don't change the character's tools and I think he is overhyped rn, I expect his results to die down like other lowmid tiers.

In neutral he has grounded pokes out of the ass and safe aerial pokes with nair and crossup falling up air, his oos is acceptable, his grab game is strong and he doesn't have a hard time landing the grab. His punish game is obviously great. The only things he really lacks are a good disadvantage and results. I don't see any reason why you would want to say he lacks potential

 

[Lord Dio]

20-11 PGR v3 is out.....
I guess I should have seen this coming, but kirihara and ken not being top 15 is a little disappointing.

 

[Nu~]

Servers undergoing maintenance...

Could this be a patch?

 

[ARGHETH]

Servers undergoing maintenance...

Could this be a patch?

Uhh, no? This happens regularly.

 

[Nu~]

Uhh, no? This happens regularly.

Well I'm inept

 

[Laken64]

It would be funny to see a patch happen a week away from one of the most pristine tournament ever, I low key want Greninja buffs and have a repeat of Pound but EVO with , but a man can dream can't he.

 

[TDK]

Ignition #89 (103 Entrants) (Midwest)

1st: ZeRo
2nd: Tyroy
3rd: Jimmy
4th: Shel
5th: SNooFL
5th: Dan
7th: Seabass
7th: Sheen

 

[YerTheBestAROUND]

It would be funny to see a patch happen a week away from one of the most pristine tournament ever, I low key want Greninja buffs and have a repeat of Pound but EVO with , but a man can dream can't he.

They likely wouldn't use the new patch at EVO if that were to happen. They'd probably just stick with 1.1.6 because players wouldn't have enough time to adjust to a new patch if it were anything but bug fixes. A similar thing happened before, right before Big House 5 I believe? That patch had gutted Luigi, but it's release was too close to the event so they stuck with the patch before it.

 

[soniczx123]

They likely wouldn't use the new patch at EVO if that were to happen. They'd probably just stick with 1.1.6 because players wouldn't have enough time to adjust to a new patch if it were anything but bug fixes. A similar thing happened before, right before Big House 5 I believe? That patch had gutted Luigi, but it's release was too close to the event so they stuck with the patch before it.

Yeah. It was also the Patch which redid the shieldstun mechanic

 

[Amadeus9]

tfw... the backroom tier list is actually pretty good woah. Nice

btw hi again peeps. pray for no patch again, ever, game is in a good state right now and no one can or should have any reason to deny that

 

[ARISTOS]

tfw... the backroom tier list is actually pretty good woah. Nice

btw hi again peeps. pray for no patch again, ever, game is in a good state right now and no one can or should have any reason to deny that

good to see ya

also I disagree, I just want Peach fair to kill at 50%. I don't think that's too much to ask

on a real note game is pretty fine apart from MK cheese which I think is actually v dumb

 

[Amadeus9]

good to see ya

also I disagree, I just want Peach fair to kill at 50%. I don't think that's too much to ask

on a real note game is pretty fine apart from MK cheese which I think is actually v dumb

It's ok mk players pay for laddering floaties by forfeiting any chance they have of ever having fun playing smash.

 

[Laken64]

It's ok mk players pay for laddering floaties by forfeiting any chance they have of ever having fun playing smash.

No wonder Leo rarely uses MK at all anymore , Abadongo though

 

[Floor]

I saw this question on Reddit and I thought it would be interesting to ask it here:

What character has the most "anti-potential" to you? In other words, what character gets good results but still bad according to you?

I would disagree with Lucina as a response; but all the power to anyone if they disagree.

My answer would be Mewtwo. He's a character that seems to win mentally. I think reading a Mewtwo will take you farther than reading most other characters will. If you can shut down his movement options, you can really press your advantage and KO him quick.

 

[dakotaisgreat]

tfw... the backroom tier list is actually pretty good woah. Nice

btw hi again peeps. pray for no patch again, ever, game is in a good state right now and no one can or should have any reason to deny that

There is plenty of reason to deny it. I'd say the upper half of the characters in this game are in a good, balanced spot, but that doesn't mean things couldn't be further improved. There's absolutely no reason why characters like Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Zelda, Roy, Bowser Jr, Kirby etc couldn't use more buffs. It wouldn't break the game in any way, we'd just have a larger list of characters to see competing in serious competitive play.

Also, it would be real sweet if 1111 base size Miis would get a ton of buffs too. I'd really like those characters to... Exist competitively speaking.

Without another balance patch, you can basically shave the bottom 12 or so characters from this games roster and lose nothing. As it is, they pretty much don't exist competitively speaking and most likely never will. That's far from the best that can be done. Patches imo are what make this the best Smash Bros game, without them I'm sure by now the meta would be mostly prepatch Shiek and Hoo-Ha. Marth would be garbage, Mewtwo would still be garbage, and a lot of low tier characters that we're actually substantially buffed like Kirby and Charizard would be even lower in the **** can than they already are.