Official 4BR Tier List v2.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Rizen]

People have made their own confirms off of Metal Blade before in training mode, but I've yet to see anyone try them on me, or even in an actual game..

You should check out Kamemushi's Mega Man; like at Evo 2016.

 

[Piipp]

You should check out Kamemushi's Mega Man; like at Evo 2016.

I meant people using characters that aren't Mega Man... I obviously know about Kamemushi. The only reason people have been labbing these Metal Blade confirms is because of him. My point was that nobody else has proven to make good use of the Metal Blade as much as Mega Man.

 

[verbatim]

Cosmos actually won a match just using pin. Which means that there is no reason to not hold the metal blade/banana/turnip

Not very knowledgeable about Mega man but Diddy and especially Peach benefit way more from Corrin losing their normals than they do from losing their projectiles. If you take banana you should use it.

 

[McGyverAC]

Not very knowledgeable about Mega man but Diddy and especially Peach benefit way more from Corrin losing their normals than they do from losing their projectiles. If you take banana you should use it.

I didn't mean keep it, I just meant you shouldn't throw it off the stage. Use it when you can, but keep it if you must.

 

[TurboLink]

People have made their own confirms off of Metal Blade before in training mode, but I've yet to see anyone try them on me, or even in an actual game. It's cool that people are learning to find ways to make use of Metal Blade, but nobody is even attempting to implicate it in an actual match.

I'm not going to say that they're impractical, because they're not. But what I want to see is more people trying to actually use Metal Blade optimally instead of just chucking it when you get it, because Metal Blade is such a big part of pushing Mega Man's advantage.

The fact that a character loses many options from carrying Metal Blade is why they probably toss it so immediately.

Not every character has good options while carrying an item.

Take Marth for example, he loses his normals and aerials and thus has to rely on his side special, down special, up special, and neutral special to try and open the opponent up for him to start Metal Blade/Banana combos or whatever.

For many characters having an item in hand can telegraph your actions.

 

[Rizen]

I meant people using characters that aren't Mega Man... I obviously know about Kamemushi. The only reason people have been labbing these Metal Blade confirms is because of him. My point was that nobody else has proven to make good use of the Metal Blade as much as Mega Man.

Ah. I didn't see the video on the last page when posting that.

I agree with TurboLink , some characters have better options when holding items than others.

 

[Key313]

Not very knowledgeable about Mega man but Diddy and especially Peach benefit way more from Corrin losing their normals than they do from losing their projectiles. If you take banana you should use it.

Turnips should not be included considering you are not limited to a single turnip but yeah gifting them one is pretty nice at times. Pac's Bonus Fruit or Rob's Gyro fit this category.

 

[Piipp]

The fact that a character loses many options from carrying Metal Blade is why they probably toss it so immediately.

Not every character has good options while carrying an item.

Take Marth for example, he loses his normals and aerials and thus has to rely on his side special, down special, up special, and neutral special to try and open the opponent up for him to start Metal Blade/Banana combos or whatever.

For many characters having an item in hand can telegraph your actions.

That's a good point and I did think about that when I originally posted. I'm saying, if someone is to come up with a confirm and wants to try to use it, they have to understand the sacrifice they make when trying to go for it.

I understand that not everyone can get something off of Metal Blade. My post was originally directed to the people that have come up with confirms for their character, but have yet to put it to any practical use.

 

[|RK|]

I meant people using characters that aren't Mega Man... I obviously know about Kamemushi. The only reason people have been labbing these Metal Blade confirms is because of him. My point was that nobody else has proven to make good use of the Metal Blade as much as Mega Man.

That's likely because MB is expendable for Mega Man. He can pull them out in a variety of situations and just have it, or get rid of it if he doesn't need it. Other characters need to fish for their confirms.

 

[Locke 06]

You take metal blade. How do you get a footstool on the zoning character megaman now that you have no grab, no tilts, and no jab and the only ground option you have clashes with a pellet?

Good luck?

Edit: btw, mega's item toss is f11, which is worse than most item generating characters (links/Diddy frame 7). There's a reason why f5 footstool came from Mega and not anyone else.

 

[verbatim]

Turnips should not be included considering you are not limited to a single turnip but yeah gifting them one is pretty nice at times. Pac's Bonus Fruit or Rob's Gyro fit this category.

Don't know much about ROB but Pacman can beat Pin on top w/ OOS options/jc up b and force Corrin into a corner/offstage with trampoline + water. This strategy works a lot better for characters like Sheik or Pikachu that have enough airspeed to get around his movement options.

 

[Fenny]

notice me pls @Mr_RSmash pic.twitter.com/qzbo0YtiCZ

— Void@LA Regionals (@gsmVoiD) October 28, 2016

Salem's been saying for the longest time that once Shiek players start utilising footstool shenanigans that she'll become legitimately ridiculous in certain cases.

Might call it impractical and yeah it's DK but with custom combo king VoiD around I wouldn't be too surprised if it saw some development.

 

[Laken64]

Speaking about projectiles/items...

Thoughts?

 

[Rizen]

Speaking about projectiles/items...

Thoughts?

So the top 6 were 6 Robin, 5 Toon Link, 4 Link, 3 Villager, 2 Duck Hunt and 1 Mega Man. These kinds of lists are fun but don't have competitive value. It's not a bad list by their criteria.

 

[Das Koopa]

Last two weekends of results n' stuff

Spoiler: Sumabato 14 (October 22nd) (Japan) (197 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Ranai
2nd: Earth , ,
3rd: Shuton
4th: 9B
5th: DIO
5th: Oisiitofu
7th: Masashi
7th: Komorikiri ,
9th: Tamiflu
9th: Ri-ma
9th: Masha
9th: Chanshu
13th: Jan ,
13th: Shogun
13th: Egapon
13th: Kappamaki ,

Spoiler: Come to Papa 2 (October 22nd-23rd) (Florida) (184 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Mew2King
2nd: Static Manny
3rd: Rideae
4th: Myran
5th: 8BitMan
5th: WormyNugget
7th: Dyr
7th: Prince Ramen
9th: Wizzrobe
9th: Mugi
9th: Ryo ,
9th: RoguePenguin
13th: Saj
13th: Leo Heart
13th: Fatality
13th: RiotLettuce

Spoiler: Eclipse 2 (October 22nd-23rd) (Norway) (175 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Mr. R ,
2nd: Sodrek ,
3rd: iStudying ,
4th: IxisNaugus
5th: Whoophee
5th: Badr
7th: WiiASE ,
7th: Gregs ,
9th: Izaw
9th: M
9th: Alias
9th: Suntherion
13th: Tag
13th: Jebu
13th: ZartZu ,
13th: SmashSK

Spoiler: Impact 2 (October 23rd) (South) (147 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Megafox
2nd: Hakii ,
3rd: Espy
4th: iFox ,
5th: Trela
5th: Jerm ,
7th: Twi
7th: Lucy
9th: Whiteout
9th: GrimTurtle ,
9th: Disqobunny ,
9th: KJ
13th: Tony Sherbert
13th: Culix
13th: WeeGee
13th: Gyo

Spoiler: Rebirth IX (October 22nd) (Midwest) (134 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Zinoto
2nd: Salem
3rd: Rayquaza ,
4th: LOE1 ,
5th: Ryuga
5th: Xane
7th: Smasher1001 ,
7th: Colinies
9th: Regralht
9th: Blade
9th: Hawk ,
9th: TekNo ,
13th: Komota
13th: Meek
13th: Miloni
13th: Ksev

Spoiler: Down to Smash (October 22nd) (Southeast) (102 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: TheReflexWonder
2nd: Peabnut
3rd: Dog W/ Hips
4th: Neos
5th: CC
5th: Sonido
7th: RFang
7th: Shade
9th: Harlock
9th: Arkaizer
9th: DansGR
9th: Kamikaze
13th: RelaxedBook
13th: ChillyChilli
13th: Thundersz
13th: Bakuuda

Spoiler: Smash Conference LXVIII (October 14th) (Florida) (101 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Salem
2nd: Static Manny
3rd: Saj
4th: 8BitMan
5th: LordMix
5th: Dyr
7th: Rideae
7th: Day
9th: Leo Heart
9th: Mew2King
9th: Child
9th: RiotLettuce
13th: Prince Ramen
13th: Mugi
13th: Cashmere
13th: Pellonian

Spoiler: Hail Smash VI (October 15th) (Mexico) (98 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: MKLeo ,
2nd: Wonf ,
3rd: Javi ,
4th: Klein
5th: Serge ,
5th: LaRiata
7th: BryanZ ,
7th: Pollo
9th: Richi
9th: Artik
9th: Elvis Park
9th: SL Dragon
13th: Salva
13th: Dano
13th: Kyouma
13th: Anderson

Spoiler: Double Barreled (October 22nd) (Midwest) (97 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: DarkShad
2nd: Sells
3rd: Mister Eric
4th: Absol
5th: Crazycolorz5
5th: Alondite
7th: Celja
7th: KERO
9th: Sai
9th: JT5565
9th: Nineball
9th: Fumbles
13th: Moose
13th: AceStarThe3rd
13th: Karinole
13th: Katakiri ,

Spoiler: Final Destination 11 (October 22nd) (Southwest) (82 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Ito
2nd: Elegant
3rd: Tyrant ,
4th: K9 ,
5th: Saiki
5th: BestNess
7th: Stroder
7th: SS ,
9th: Luhtie
9th: Calculus
9th: Apachai
9th: Skylar
13th: Senpai
13th: Kami
13th: Funkermonster
13th: Googs

 

[Deleted member]

Das Koopa

Ryo also used at Come to Papa 2.

 

[Aaron1997]

Speaking about projectiles/items...

Thoughts?

Puts DH at #2. Doesn't even mention Pac. At least explain why that he's not on the list.

 

[The-Technique]

I don't think that we should try to compare the two characters. They have their similarities with each other, but even though Falco is the lower tiered character, there are a number of things Luigi wishes he had from him:
-Functional tilts
-disjointed aerials
-better side b
-Reflector (probably the thing Luigi wants most)
Falco isn't just a inferior Luigi. He has a competent footsies game and a way to combat projectile games that doesn't involve shielding. To call Falco just an inferior Luigi is over simplifying things to an extreme. I'm not denying that Falco is lacking in a lot of ways that Luigi isn't. And I'm not denying that the both want to do the same thing in almost any MU: get in and do damage. But they have different tools to do that.

Why would Luigi ever give up his Tornado for Falco's reflector? I mean I agree that Falco isn't an inferior Luigi, but c'mon...

 

[Nu~]

Speaking about projectiles/items...

Thoughts?

"Lemons have barely any lag"

30 frames is "barely"?


Okay list but I can't help but feel Pacman should have at least been mentioned.

 

[Nah]

It's not really the frame data that makes lemons great, because the frame data on them is pretty average, but the fact that Mega Man can choose between firing 1, 2, or 3 of them, while also being able to move freely about while doing so. That's what makes them so good.

 

[Ethan7]

Bayonetta has been talked about here quite a bit recently. Here are Esam's opinions on her.
https://youtu.be/aULdTkS-ce0

 

[Deleted member]

ESAM said in the video that Bayonetta was "kinda slow".

In what world is that true? Her run speed is the same as Mario's and she has favorable air physics overall (air speed is slightly below average, but her air accel is great), and when you have an option like After Burner Kick for burst mobility along with a frame 4 jumpsquat I'd hesitate to call her slow.

It was still a decent video, but that bit irked me. I also do agree that he's comfortably top 5 at the moment, not top 2/3.

 

[G. Stache]

Why would Luigi ever give up his Tornado for Falco's reflector? I mean I agree that Falco isn't an inferior Luigi, but c'mon...

Well, that's a good question. My answer to you is: Definitely not. That's a huge sacrifice to the advantage, disadvantage (and even a sacrifice to neutral now that you mention it). Basically, a reflector would make a lot of MUs a lot less volatile. Campers couldn't rely on strong projectile games alone to keep Luigi at bay unless they had a reflector of their own (hello Mewtwo). And Luigi gets in easier for potentially the same reward that he'd get without cyclone. But the reason cyclone is irreplaceable is because it just supplements his game plan so well. It provides a great recovery option, a decent burst option, a situational kill option and a top tier edgeguarding game. It's useful in too many places to give up. So no, I wouldn't want to replace it. I'd just get rid of my dumb side b in an instant instead. Now that's a trash move that I wish didn't exist.

 

[Ethan7]

ESAM said in the video that Bayonetta was "kinda slow".

In what world is that true? Her run speed is the same as Mario's and she has favorable air physics overall (air speed is slightly below average, but her air accel is great), and when you have an option like After Burner Kick for burst mobility along with a frame 4 jumpsquat I'd hesitate to call her slow.

It was still a decent video, but that bit irked me. I also do agree that he's comfortably top 5 at the moment, not top 2/3.

She does have poor stats on things like walk and air speed. Along with a not that fast dash. But she has moves with burst mobility, frame 4 jumpsquat, etc., like you said. In regards to frame data, her startup is pretty high and she has high endlag on smashes.

Now saying she is "kind of floaty" is just plain wrong.

 

[Y2Kay]

When you have top tiers like Mewtwo, Sheik, Fox, Sonic, and Zero Suit Samus, it's hard to say that Bayonetta has good mbility.

Her air acceleration is good, but her run speed is barely top 30, her walk speed is bad, and her air speed is hanging in that mid 30s range.

Her natural mobility, at best, is excruciatingly average.*

*Her Heel Slide and After Burner kick do give her a few nice burst mobility options though.

 

[TDK]

Last two weekends of results n' stuff

Spoiler: Sumabato 14 (October 22nd) (Japan) (197 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Ranai
2nd: Earth , ,
3rd: Shuton
4th: 9B
5th: DIO
5th: Oisiitofu
7th: Masashi
7th: Komorikiri
9th: Tamiflu
9th: Ri-ma
9th: Masha
9th: Chanshu
13th: Jan ,
13th: Shogun
13th: Egapon
13th: Kappamaki

Spoiler: Come to Papa 2 (October 22nd-23rd) (Florida) (184 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Mew2King
2nd: Static Manny
3rd: Rideae
4th: Myran
5th: 8BitMan
5th: WormyNugget
7th: Dyr
7th: Prince Ramen
9th: Wizzrobe
9th: Mugi
9th: Ryo ,
9th: RoguePenguin
13th: Saj
13th: Leo Heart
13th: Fatality
13th: RiotLettuce

Spoiler: Eclipse 2 (October 22nd-23rd) (Norway) (175 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Mr. R
2nd: Sodrek ,
3rd: iStudying ,
4th: IxisNaugus
5th: Whoophee
5th: Badr
7th: WiiASE
7th: Gregs
9th: Izaw
9th: M
9th: Alias
9th: Suntherion
13th: Tag
13th: Jebu
13th: ZartZu
13th: SmashSK

Spoiler: Impact 2 (October 23rd) (South) (147 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Megafox
2nd: Hakii ,
3rd: Espy
4th: iFox ,
5th: Trela
5th: Jerm
7th: Twi
7th: Lucy
9th: Whiteout
9th: GrimTurtle ,
9th: Disqobunny
9th: KJ
13th: Tony Sherbert
13th: Culix
13th: WeeGee
13th: Gyo

Spoiler: Rebirth IX (October 22nd) (Midwest) (134 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Zinoto
2nd: Salem
3rd: Rayquaza ,
4th: LOE1
5th: Ryuga
5th: Xane
7th: Smasher1001
7th: Colinies
9th: Regralht
9th: Blade
9th: Hawk ,
9th: TekNo
13th: Komota
13th: Meek
13th: Miloni
13th: Ksev

Spoiler: Down to Smash (October 22nd) (Southeast) (102 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: TheReflexWonder
2nd: Peabnut
3rd: Dog W/ Hips
4th: Neos
5th: CC
5th: Sonido
7th: RFang
7th: Shade
9th: Harlock
9th: Arkaizer
9th: DansGR
9th: Kamikaze
13th: RelaxedBook
13th: ChillyChilli
13th: Thundersz
13th: Bakuuda

Spoiler: Smash Conference LXVIII (October 14th) (Florida) (101 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Salem
2nd: Static Manny
3rd: Saj
4th: 8BitMan
5th: LordMix
5th: Dyr
7th: Rideae
7th: Day
9th: Leo Heart
9th: Mew2King
9th: Child
9th: RiotLettuce
13th: Prince Ramen
13th: Mugi
13th: Cashmere
13th: Pellonian

Spoiler: Hail Smash VI (October 15th) (Mexico) (98 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: MKLeo
2nd: Wonf ,
3rd: Javi ,
4th: Klein
5th: Serge
5th: LaRiata
7th: BryanZ
7th: Pollo
9th: Richi
9th: Artik
9th: Elvis Park
9th: SL Dragon
13th: Salva
13th: Dano
13th: Kyouma
13th: Anderson

Spoiler: Double Barreled (October 22nd) (Midwest) (97 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: DarkShad
2nd: Sells
3rd: Mister Eric
4th: Absol
5th: Crazycolorz5
5th: Alondite
7th: Celja
7th: KERO
9th: Sai
9th: JT5565
9th: Nineball
9th: Fumbles
13th: Moose
13th: AceStarThe3rd
13th: Karinole
13th: Katakiri

Spoiler: Final Destination 11 (October 22nd) (Southwest) (82 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Ito
2nd: Elegant
3rd: Tyrant ,
4th: K9 ,
5th: Saiki
5th: BestNess
7th: Stroder
7th: SS
9th: Luhtie
9th: Calculus
9th: Apachai
9th: Skylar
13th: Senpai
13th: Kami
13th: Funkermonster
13th: Googs

Been a while since I've done one of these.

Spoiler: Full amount of top 16s/8s

15 in top 16, 11 in top 8
14 in top 16, 8 in top 8
12 in top 16, 9 in top 8
12 in top 16, 7 in top 8
10 in top 16, 7 in top 8
10 in top 16, 4 in top 8
8 in top 16, 4 in top 8
7 in top 16, 4 in top 8
7 in top 16, 3 in top 8
7 in top 16, 3 in top 8
6 in top 16, 2 in top 8
6 in top 16, 2 in top 8
5 in top 16, 4 in top 8
5 in top 16, 1 in top 8
4 in top 16, 3 in top 8
4 in top 16, 2 in top 8
4 in top 16, 1 in top 8
4 in top 16, 0 in top 8 (RIP)
3 in top 16, 3 in top 8 (100%)
3 in top 16, 3 in top 8 (100%)
3 in top 16, 2 in top 8
3 in top 16, 2 in top 8
3 in top 16, 2 in top 8
3 in top 16, 1 in top 8
3 in top 16, 1 in top 8
3 in top 16, 1 in top 8
2 in top 16, 2 in top 8 (100%)
2 in top 16, 2 in top 8 (100%)
2 in top 16, 2 in top 8 (100%)
2 in top 16, 1 in top 8
2 in top 16, 1 in top 8
2 in top 16, 1 in top 8
2 in top 16, 0 in top 8
2 in top 16, 0 in top 8
2 in top 16, 0 in top 8
1 in top 16, 1 in top 8
1 in top 16, 1 in top 8
1 in top 16, 1 in top 8
1 in top 16, 1 in top 8
1 in top 16, 0 in top 8
1 in top 16, 0 in top 8
1 in top 16, 0 in top 8
1 in top 16, 0 in top 8
1 in top 16, 0 in top 8
1 in top 16, 0 in top 8
1 in top 16, 0 in top 8

Total number of characters who made top 16: 47 (!!)
I love this game.
Most Popular Character combination: Anyone +

Spoiler: Top 16 results tier list

Spoiler: Top 8 results tier list

Not gonna do averages because it's tedious and annoying and I don't have the time.

Also, Little Mac is the literal definition of Unreliable.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

notice me pls @Mr_RSmash pic.twitter.com/qzbo0YtiCZ

— Void@LA Regionals (@gsmVoiD) October 28, 2016

Salem's been saying for the longest time that once Shiek players start utilising footstool shenanigans that she'll become legitimately ridiculous in certain cases.

Might call it impractical and yeah it's DK but with custom combo king VoiD around I wouldn't be too surprised if it saw some development.

Oh ****, I was actually labbing Sheik's dthrow footstool stuff like 4 hours ago. Here's what I know about it.

It works best on superheavies, anyone with average gravity and a fall speed of 1.66 or higher, and Ryu. On characters with average fall speed/gravity you should be going for tipper dtilt > footstool nair x3 loops until ftilt causes tumble, then use ftilt > footstool > soft bair/nair. Floaties can be started with tipper dtilt/ftilt but only at very low percents. The last hit of up air works for everyone but fast fallers, if you can hit it that is.

You can also get a footstool out of fair at low/mid percents and needles at high percent. Yes this means needles > footstool > dair is a suicide kill confirm at ~80 on characters who don't have ridiculously good vertical recoveries like Bayonetta, Pikachu, Mewtwo, and Villager

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'd like to posit that part of what makes Bayonetta's burst mobility so dangerous is that they're also combo starters. If she tags you with Afterburner Kick or Witch Twist, that's an easy confirm for oodles of damage and/or death depending on your current percent, how many uses of ABK/Twist Bayonetta has left, stage position, etc.

So yeah, she may not be quite on par with Sheik or ZSS in terms of raw mobility, but I still fear ABK/Twist more than I do Bouncing Fish and Flip Kick.

 

[blackghost]

bayonetta base movement isn't statistically a top tier. burst movement is insane as we all know but what is still getting ignored is her step dash. when (not if) it is implemented no one will ever question her movement again.
and no esam bayonetta isn't a floaty in any sense. she's a tall light (semi)fastfaller

 

[meleebrawler]

Well, that's a good question. My answer to you is: Definitely not. That's a huge sacrifice to the advantage, disadvantage (and even a sacrifice to neutral now that you mention it). Basically, a reflector would make a lot of MUs a lot less volatile. Campers couldn't rely on strong projectile games alone to keep Luigi at bay unless they had a reflector of their own (hello Mewtwo). And Luigi gets in easier for potentially the same reward that he'd get without cyclone. But the reason cyclone is irreplaceable is because it just supplements his game plan so well. It provides a great recovery option, a decent burst option, a situational kill option and a top tier edgeguarding game. It's useful in too many places to give up. So no, I wouldn't want to replace it. I'd just get rid of my dumb side b in an instant instead. Now that's a trash move that I wish didn't exist.

Then you may as well slap a sign on Luigi that says "must have turbo fingers to be successful".

 

[wedl!!]

bayonetta base movement isn't statistically a top tier. burst movement is insane as we all know but what is still getting ignored is her step dash. when (not if) it is implemented no one will ever question her movement again.
and no esam bayonetta isn't a floaty in any sense. she's a tall light (semi)fastfaller

Bayonetta has the 9th fastest base fall speed (1.77), and the 10th fastest fastfall speed (2.832).

 

[Fenny]

bayonetta base movement isn't statistically a top tier. burst movement is insane as we all know but what is still getting ignored is her step dash. when (not if) it is implemented no one will ever question her movement again.

yep. of all the characters in the game, while not as far as MK (whose step dash is , Bayo actually has the most generous window in which she gets max step dash distance, being 3 frames to everyone else's 1 frame according to this pretty solid experiment:

her's is probably the easiest to pull off, and with people like Salem and PF looking to perfect and implement it in her play, it's only a matter of time.

 

[TDK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TtvvOkf37o

ZeRo's competitive Captain Falcon guide. I really wish he'd start using Falcon in tournaments. He's really good with him.

 

[The-Technique]

Then you may as well slap a sign on Luigi that says "must have turbo fingers to be successful".

Well there's a reason ConCon and Elegant always spam Luigi in Character Select before matches, and its honestly not that demanding compared to what other high/top tiers require in terms of tech and input.

Also try playing Luigi sometime, its not that hard to Tornado gimp offstage or ceiling KO someone in the air with a rising Tornado.

 

[NooBosS]

Who else thinks Lucina is really underrated? She is ranked 36th on current tier list while her semi-clone Marth is 19th! I know she doesn't have a tipper but she be at least Top 30 or even Top 25 maybe. What are your opinions?
Go here for my thread for more details on why Lucina is underrated here if your interested
https://smashboards.com/threads/why-is-lucina-so-low-on-the-tier-list.442894/#post-21517687

 

[Das Koopa]

MKLeo/Javi defeat Mew2King/Ally at Canada Cup doubles, 3-1 then 3-2 in Grand Finals

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Who else thinks Lucina is really underrated? She is ranked 36th on current tier list while her semi-clone Marth is 19th! I know she doesn't have a tipper but she be at least Top 30 or even Top 25 maybe. What are your opinions?
Go here for my thread for more details on why Lucina is underrated here if your interested
https://smashboards.com/threads/why-is-lucina-so-low-on-the-tier-list.442894/#post-21517687

its already been discussed about 30 trillion times as to why Lucina is as low as she is. Yes she is unreasonably low but Marth all but invalidates her as a character and the tipper is a HUGE deal in a lot of high tier matchups such as Fox and Sonic. Please, I'm not emotionally ready for @FamilyTeam's 30 slide powerpoints as to why Lucina is just as strong as Marth :[

 

[Aaron1997]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/59z7dj/hyperkirby_solo_roy_player_takes_ledge_gardens/

Looks like we found a High level Solo Roy Rep

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Last two weekends of results n' stuff

Spoiler: Sumabato 14 (October 22nd) (Japan) (197 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Ranai
2nd: Earth , ,
3rd: Shuton
4th: 9B
5th: DIO
5th: Oisiitofu
7th: Masashi
7th: Komorikiri ,
9th: Tamiflu
9th: Ri-ma
9th: Masha
9th: Chanshu
13th: Jan ,
13th: Shogun
13th: Egapon
13th: Kappamaki ,

Spoiler: Come to Papa 2 (October 22nd-23rd) (Florida) (184 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Mew2King
2nd: Static Manny
3rd: Rideae
4th: Myran
5th: 8BitMan
5th: WormyNugget
7th: Dyr
7th: Prince Ramen
9th: Wizzrobe
9th: Mugi
9th: Ryo ,
9th: RoguePenguin
13th: Saj
13th: Leo Heart
13th: Fatality
13th: RiotLettuce

Spoiler: Eclipse 2 (October 22nd-23rd) (Norway) (175 Entrants) (Category 2)

1st: Mr. R ,
2nd: Sodrek ,
3rd: iStudying ,
4th: IxisNaugus
5th: Whoophee
5th: Badr
7th: WiiASE ,
7th: Gregs ,
9th: Izaw
9th: M
9th: Alias
9th: Suntherion
13th: Tag
13th: Jebu
13th: ZartZu ,
13th: SmashSK

Spoiler: Impact 2 (October 23rd) (South) (147 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Megafox
2nd: Hakii ,
3rd: Espy
4th: iFox ,
5th: Trela
5th: Jerm ,
7th: Twi
7th: Lucy
9th: Whiteout
9th: GrimTurtle ,
9th: Disqobunny ,
9th: KJ
13th: Tony Sherbert
13th: Culix
13th: WeeGee
13th: Gyo

Spoiler: Rebirth IX (October 22nd) (Midwest) (134 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Zinoto
2nd: Salem
3rd: Rayquaza ,
4th: LOE1 ,
5th: Ryuga
5th: Xane
7th: Smasher1001 ,
7th: Colinies
9th: Regralht
9th: Blade
9th: Hawk ,
9th: TekNo ,
13th: Komota
13th: Meek
13th: Miloni
13th: Ksev

Spoiler: Down to Smash (October 22nd) (Southeast) (102 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: TheReflexWonder
2nd: Peabnut
3rd: Dog W/ Hips
4th: Neos
5th: CC
5th: Sonido
7th: RFang
7th: Shade
9th: Harlock
9th: Arkaizer
9th: DansGR
9th: Kamikaze
13th: RelaxedBook
13th: ChillyChilli
13th: Thundersz
13th: Bakuuda

Spoiler: Smash Conference LXVIII (October 14th) (Florida) (101 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Salem
2nd: Static Manny
3rd: Saj
4th: 8BitMan
5th: LordMix
5th: Dyr
7th: Rideae
7th: Day
9th: Leo Heart
9th: Mew2King
9th: Child
9th: RiotLettuce
13th: Prince Ramen
13th: Mugi
13th: Cashmere
13th: Pellonian

Spoiler: Hail Smash VI (October 15th) (Mexico) (98 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: MKLeo ,
2nd: Wonf ,
3rd: Javi ,
4th: Klein
5th: Serge ,
5th: LaRiata
7th: BryanZ ,
7th: Pollo
9th: Richi
9th: Artik
9th: Elvis Park
9th: SL Dragon
13th: Salva
13th: Dano
13th: Kyouma
13th: Anderson

Spoiler: Double Barreled (October 22nd) (Midwest) (97 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: DarkShad
2nd: Sells
3rd: Mister Eric
4th: Absol
5th: Crazycolorz5
5th: Alondite
7th: Celja
7th: KERO
9th: Sai
9th: JT5565
9th: Nineball
9th: Fumbles
13th: Moose
13th: AceStarThe3rd
13th: Karinole
13th: Katakiri ,

Spoiler: Final Destination 11 (October 22nd) (Southwest) (82 Entrants) (Category 1)

1st: Ito
2nd: Elegant
3rd: Tyrant ,
4th: K9 ,
5th: Saiki
5th: BestNess
7th: Stroder
7th: SS ,
9th: Luhtie
9th: Calculus
9th: Apachai
9th: Skylar
13th: Senpai
13th: Kami
13th: Funkermonster
13th: Googs

So it's pretty safe to assume Bayonetta and Cloud are going to be top 2 in terms of results until the next supermajor happens, where a certain amount of upset is almost expected at this point. Bayonetta because she's pretty much the best solo main besides Diddy Kong -neither character is even remotely as difficult to play consistently at top level as Sheik- and Cloud because he's one of the best secondaries for a lot of characters and is overplayed as a consequence.

At this point it's mostly surprising to see how little Mario is being used. He's neither used a lot as a main, nor as a secondary despite how good and easy to play he is.

 

[Yikarur]

I think Mario doesn't belong in the "easy to play and get results" category.
Mario is easy to start with but the average player won't be successful with him because he doesn't carry players.
Mario is only very good if a player with really good fundamentals and understanding is playing him.
I have never heard of a case where a player switched to Mario and got better results in the process.