Official 4BR Tier List v2.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Deleted member]

Eh.
With Bayo on the comeup even more and Cloud still being a boon I think I can realistically put Fox just out of top 5 again.
Although arbitrary, I feel like top 5 would be some random mix of . Maybe in that order.
These characters have "got the goods" that most of the cast can't really deal with, and their CPs are either very uncommon, easy to manage, or nonexistent.
Anyone think there's a character that beats or goes even with at least 2-3 of these?

is mostly considered by players of both characters to go even/have slight disadvantage against Mewtwo. Rich Brown himself thinks the matchup is even.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Megaman does fine against all of them except Sheik.

 

[Locke 06]

Bayo is not a lock for top 5.

The fact that most of the community doesn't know if what Salem did on Larry was true, or what he could do, shows the ignorance on Bayonetta. Her meta development, mostly by Salem but also by her player base in general, is much further ahead than the counterplay. "just SDI" doesn't work for her normals, and seeing the CCI try and scratch their heads at "Fox can't SDI as well because <insert not true reason> so I guess FAir1>Fair1 is true" makes me cringe harder than usual when reading this thread.

Dabuz is very right in that people, top level included, don't play the matchup right.

 

[Nu~]

Bayo is not a lock for top 5.

The fact that most of the community doesn't know if what Salem did on Larry was true, or what he could do, shows the ignorance on Bayonetta. Her meta development, mostly by Salem but also by her player base in general, is much further ahead than the counterplay. "just SDI" doesn't work for her normals, and seeing the CCI try and scratch their heads at "Fox can't SDI as well because <insert not true reason> so I guess FAir1>Fair1 is true" makes me cringe harder than usual when reading this thread.

Dabuz is very right in that people, top level included, don't play the matchup right.

Well...

How DO you escape those strings then?

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Bayo is not a lock for top 5.

The fact that most of the community doesn't know if what Salem did on Larry was true, or what he could do, shows the ignorance on Bayonetta. Her meta development, mostly by Salem but also by her player base in general, is much further ahead than the counterplay. "just SDI" doesn't work for her normals, and seeing the CCI try and scratch their heads at "Fox can't SDI as well because <insert not true reason> so I guess FAir1>Fair1 is true" makes me cringe harder than usual when reading this thread.

Dabuz is very right in that people, top level included, don't play the matchup right.

Yea it seems that with Bayonetta as soon as someone develops some sort counterplay to her combos or playstyle.
2 new combos or tech get developed in its place.. There is almost no way to predict the future of her meta it seems

 

[|RK|]

Well...

How DO you escape those strings then?

I saw on Reddit (I know, I know) that Larry could have airdodged out. It puts him in a worse position though.

Obviously, not certain about this, but.

 

[verbatim]

and seeing the CCI try and scratch their heads at "Fox can't SDI as well because <insert not true reason> so I guess FAir1>Fair1 is true" makes me cringe harder than usual when reading this thread.

Harder != can't

Also, assuming this was addressed at my post, I was speaking specifically about witch twist.

 

[|RK|]

Eh.
With Bayo on the comeup even more and Cloud still being a boon I think I can realistically put Fox just out of top 5 again.
Although arbitrary, I feel like top 5 would be some random mix of . Maybe in that order.
These characters have "got the goods" that most of the cast can't really deal with, and their CPs are either very uncommon, easy to manage, or nonexistent.
Anyone think there's a character that beats or goes even with at least 2-3 of these?

Depends on what MU charts you're looking at. Lucario could go even with most of those chars.

 

[Emblem Lord]

There is no counter play to a guess other then to attempt a guess of your own. Anytime Bayo does an Up B it is a legit pure guess on how to DI for many characters. Will you fly left? Will you fly right? Only the Bayo knows where you will go and THAT is a very real advantage that CANNOT be understated. It's not even a matter of people being lazy. People just don't where the **** there are going to go after they get hit, and DI only works at it's full potential when you know what direction you are going to go in and you can react in time which Witch Twist doesn't allow for. Yes, you can mash SDI down to get out of stuff but that is also weight and fall speed dependent and Bayo is STILL in control because she can SEE how you are DIing while Witch Twist blends you up.

 

[FeelMeUp]

I reallllly like that people are focusing on stage control more than damage now.
Mario, ZSS, Luigi, Sheik, and many other characters now have players that opt for their pivot bairs for the higher KB and free stage control. Seeing dthrow pivot bair on Luigi rather than opting for more fair/uair vertical combos is very pleasing.

 

[The-Technique]

Along with Bayo possibly being also one of Cloud's only 4-6 MU's (maybe Sheik too) That is two top tier and possible top 5 characters she does very well against it seems

ZSS also has a very positive record against Cloud, which is currently 25 wins to 9 losses in bracket. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Deleted member]

MKLeo just 3-0'd Mew2King at Canada Cup 2016.

I am so, so happy Leo is finally able to travel. The guy has a very bright future as a player. I feel like he might win this tournament.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

I don't see how Bayo isn't a lock for top five at this point. She's second in results as of the 11th and that's with not having a ton of high or top level reps. We all know how absolutely insane she can be in all parts of a match. You can say she lacks well developed counter play but it really seems like to me she just keeps getting better regardless. I keep seeing Bayo's in top three of all these tournaments that have been posted lately. Salem has been on a tear lately beating everyone and the regional Bayo's have been doing excellent as well lately.

I agree with Fox being out of Top 5 he gets blown up as well as he blows people up I think 6-8 is best for him at the moment.

 

[FeelMeUp]

and that's with not having a ton of high or top level reps.

I agree with everything you said except for this.
Bayonetta has more high/top level reps than almost every other character.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree with everything you said except for this.
Bayonetta has more high/top level reps than almost every other character.

This practically is true. If anything the only other characters that have similar rep are

.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

I agree with everything you said except for this.
Bayonetta has more high/top level reps than almost every other character.

Who do you consider high/top level as far as Bayo mains are concerned? Would you consider regional threats that don't travel often as well? I'll be honest I don't know of many aside some of the names you see on the more popular locals.

 

[FeelMeUp]

Who do you consider high/top level as far as Bayo mains are concerned? Would you consider regional threats that don't travel often as well?

Ikep
Pink Fresh
Captain Zack
Salem
9B
JK
Saj
Tyroy
Probably more I'm forgetting.
I don't think any other character besides has this many legitimately good, consistent representatives.

 

[Deleted member]

Ikep
Pink Fresh
Captain Zack
Salem
9B
JK
Saj
Tyroy
Probably more I'm forgetting.
I don't think any other character besides has this many legitimately good, consistent representatives.

There's also Wonf. Dude is a beast.

Griffith is a French Bayo that's also pretty good, got 7th at Syndicate.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

I heard of a few of them aside the obvious ones like Salem and Pink but I stand corrected then. The more I think about it the more players I'm remembering as well. That's actually a really solid player base she has.

 

[Fenny]

I agree with everything you said except for this.
Bayonetta has more high/top level reps than almost every other character.

Indeed. And on top of that, all of them have their own distinct playstyles as well - of the most well-known Bayos out there, you won't really find two of them who play the same. It's actually impressive the strong playerbase she's garnered.

Ikep
Pink Fresh
Captain Zack
Salem
9B
JK
Saj
Tyroy
Probably more I'm forgetting.
I don't think any other character besides has this many legitimately good, consistent representatives.

Wonf, Child, Griffith and Bushi are worth noting, especially Wonf who's easily a top 5 threat in the Mexican scene currently.

 

[Fenny]

double post

 

[Megamang]

Is SSHC still a decent answer in some cases? i know it can just reset you, but it can get the hit and at least it's making bayo guess a little.

 

[Illuminose]

Ikep
Pink Fresh
Captain Zack
Salem
9B
JK
Saj
Tyroy
Probably more I'm forgetting.
I don't think any other character besides has this many legitimately good, consistent representatives.

aphro (socal), chag (mexico), and hiro (japan) are other good bayos

 

[ARGHETH]

Ally 3-2 Leo at Canada Cup... Game 5, last stock, last hit.

 

[Y2Kay]

Is SSHC still a decent answer in some cases? i know it can just reset you, but it can get the hit and at least it's making bayo guess a little.

It's a 50:50, not a Get out of Jail Free Card.

In general, Greninja is much better in disadvantage than Fox.

 

[Deleted member]

Ally 3-2 Leo at Canada Cup... Game 5, last stock, last hit.

That was such a good set to watch. MKLeo honestly showed us how great Marth's advantage state is.

I have faith he can bring it back, but I wonder if he'll stick with Marth or go for the pick.

 

[Das Koopa]

Javi's singles run is one of the most disappointing things I've seen all year

Ness vs Ally was a terrible idea
That edgeguard attempt vs. Mew2King was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen
Cloud dittoing Mew2King instead of starting with Sheik

After that great doubles run it was so jarring. 0-6 vs M2K/Ally.

 

[Deleted member]

Aaaand MKLeo takes it 3-2 over M2K.

Leo switched to Cloud game 5 after being cheesed out by FT on game 4, he had it in the bag. Guess people were right when they said Marth had a good Cloud MU, great play on both ends.

 

[DunnoBro]

I think he went marth more because Cloud dittos are obnoxious than simply because Marth is good vs Cloud (can't be better than even)

 

[Deleted member]

Canada Cup 2016 (184 entrants - Ontario, CA)

1) MKLeo
2) Ally
3) Mew2King
4) javi
5) Yoh
5) DarkAura
7) Chrim Foish
7) Deathorse
9) Iceninja
9) San
9) Lightwork
9) Alphicans
13) Poke
13) Blacktwins
13) Space
13) Infinity

Leo wins his first out-of-country tournament!

 

[TDK]

Feel, Space is a and Infinity is a

As a Canadian, I am definitely salty that DarkAura lost his set with Javi to a missed input, but oh well. Le Shrug.

I actually have no idea if MKLeo played MK or not. I didn't see him play MK, so I'll leave it as a question mark.

Also, slight addendum to my 2GG: Pay it forward results: It appears that AC went and not Falco. My apologies.

Das Koopa

 

[Deleted member]

looooool we posted at the exact same time

 

[TDK]

If I had known your post would have register first, I would not have idled for the last few hours updating my results list.

But I know who Space and Infinity play, does that count for something?

 

[Deleted member]

Feel, Space is a and Infinity is a

As a Canadian, I am definitely salty that DarkAura lost his set with Javi to a missed input, but oh well. Le Shrug.

I actually have no idea if MKLeo played MK or not. I didn't see him play MK, so I'll leave it as a question mark.

Also, slight addendum to my 2GG: Pay it forward results: It appears that AC went and not Falco. My apologies.

Das Koopa

AC said he went Falco in the Falco Discord. Unsure of how much he used him though.

Thanks for the clarification, btw.

 

[Y2Kay]

I hope you put on your deodorant.

Man, the GF Set 2 left me sweaty.

 

[Laken64]

Watching Leo vs Ally was the most mentally stressful match I've ever seen in my life.

 

[teddystalin]

Canada Cup 2016 (184 entrants - Ontario, CA)

1) MKLeo
2) Ally
3) Mew2King
4) javi
5) Yoh
5) DarkAura
7) Chrim Foish
7) Deathorse
9) Iceninja
9) San
9) Lightwork
9) Alphicans
13) Poke
13) Blacktwins
13) Space
13) Infinity

Leo wins his first out-of-country tournament!

Yoh is a I thought

And Iceninja used some (they weren't even rocking the Palu cosplay *sigh*)

 

[Deleted member]

Yoh is a I thought

And Iceninja used some (they weren't even rocking the Palu cosplay *sigh*)

Yoh switched to Diddy post-Sheik nerfs I believe.

Didn't know Ice used Corrin, so I'll add that.

 

[TDK]

Yoh switched to Diddy post-Sheik nerfs I believe.

Didn't know Ice used Corrin, so I'll add that.

Yoh used Sheik in every match I saw.

 

[Trunks159]

Canada Cup 2016 (184 entrants - Ontario, CA)

Leo wins his first out-of-country tournament!

Well he went to Get On My Level in the Spring and got 5th.