Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Y2Kay]

I'm not even sure who Mewtwo loses to anymore. I'd used to think he slightly loses to these 3:



but now we have some evidence to believe they could possible be even. Mewtwo definitely doesn't get bopped by anybody anymore.

Luckily though, the nature of the character forces you to respect your opponent and can't comfortably body characters like he used too.

 

[Shaya]

If I was going to take anything from last night/the recent conversation.

The meta in a year's time is going to be Cloud vs Ryu.
The rehash of MK vs Snake? The borked hitbox/overtuned swordsman vs the heavy ******* who kills too early? Two contrasting play styles and strengths which both can abuse against each other in evermore disgusting ways?

Sheik starring as Falco, the ***** who almost always starts with a near full stock lead on you before you can touch them but is one of the worst killers in the game.
Mewtwo starring as Marth, the character who has options to cover everything and spends most of his time worrying only about being punished for jumping.
Diddy Kong taking the Olimar position after his unfortunate horse-riding paraplegic incident, "oh god how do I even approach this character". Needs more kryptonite or batman.
Sonic usurping the Monkey King's role as forever laughing at you for trying to approach through his wall of spin dash cancel shields and positioning himself as far away from you as possible at all times. HA HA you finally got close, better hit you away and start the process all over again!
Featuring Mario pressing whatever button he wants while in the air just like Wario, with an invincible 10 frame up smash better than the equivalent 10 frame super armor shoulder bash. **** those moves.
Fox reprising his role, except no one can infinite or 0-death grab combo him anymore. WHY NOT!? COME ON. IT'S BEEN THIS WAY IN EVERY OTHER SMASH GAME THUS FAR.
Rosalina spot dodging all balance patch destruction in recent times in light of the dark demonic Bayonetta's attempts to be Ice Climbers, but the position has been re-usurped.

I feel like I'm missing someone
Oh wait, Zero Suit being brawl zero suit without any good ground moves or armor pieces. Wielding the cursed KOing DP that comes with RCO, the bane of our existence.
And Megaman is cool.

And with that horrible attempt at fan faction, the time is now to realise the highishtop tiers are going to be top [very likely] forever more. Time to kill the politics of who deserves what, it's not how things works or ever will. The world isn't fair. But at least the way Smash4 plays out in the future holds more hope and promise than a post-Trump vs Hillary America.

 

[Ffamran]

Featuring Mario pressing whatever button he wants while in the air just like Wario, with an invincible 10 frame up smash better than the equivalent 10 frame super armor shoulder bash. **** those moves.

But, Shaya, Mario's Up Smash is frame 9! IT'S EVEN FASTER.

Also, coincidentally, Smash 4 Mario's Up Smash and Brawl Wario's Side Smash are both frame 9. Their "armor" is similar too; Mario's invincibility matches its active frames while Wario's armor is frame 8-11, 3 active frames and unknown active hit frames Wario's Side Smash since... yeah... Brawl frame data. Still find it stupid how Wario basically has a slower, stronger Ftilt when his Ftilt is already slow and fairly strong. Oh, but his shoulder ram doesn't have range. It's iconic to the freaking character! It'd be like removing Link's Spin Attack. Anyway, carry on, everyone...

I wonder who the Brawl Triple D of this game is. Yes, yes, no chain-grabs, but the similar style, the way his grappling works. Would have been Luigi probably if his D-throw was never changed. Maybe Bowser or DK? Wonder what other relationships we can connect to from Brawl and Melee. Easier than connecting to another game like Street Fighter since it's not Smash, lot of people don't play Street Fighter enough, etc.

 

[Yonder]

Mewtwo vs Rosa

One of the 3-4 characters that can get hit by M2 rising fair, Rosa can't edgegguard him that well, Mew2 has a lot of moves to swat Luma, his tilt game makes him poke from a safe distance, Luma accidentally extends big hitboxes and makes it dangerous for her puppeteer, Mew2 can bait gravitation pretty well with small shadow balls, Rosa's juggles don't work that well because of tools mew2 has to avoid them.

It's even to slight advantage Mew2 IMO.

Huge point to add quickly, Luma dies 100% of the time if Rosa is hit by Mewtwo's dash attack. It sends it into a tumble, regardless of any prior damage taken before or not and kills it, flying at an about 70° angle and coming straight down, so about that range for dash attack to take out Luma. What other attacks send Luma into an instant unrecoverable tumble? Rosa cannot play keep away with Mewtwo's mobility either.

That's huge and what i think tips it in Mewtwo's favor a bit.

But i guess we can use Aba fo gauge it a bit. Mewtwo does decent against Rosa, but doesn't wreck her life like MK. Otherwise, he probably would have used M2 instead during Pound vs Dabuz.

 

[TDK]

If I was going to take anything from last night/the recent conversation.

The meta in a year's time is going to be Cloud vs Ryu.
The rehash of MK vs Snake? The borked hitbox/overtuned swordsman vs the heavy ******* who kills too early? Two contrasting play styles and strengths which both can abuse against each other in evermore disgusting ways?

Sheik starring as Falco, the ***** who almost always starts with a near full stock lead on you before you can touch them but is one of the worst killers in the game.
Mewtwo starring as Marth, the character who has options to cover everything and spends most of his time worrying only about being punished for jumping.
Diddy Kong taking the Olimar position after his unfortunate horse-riding paraplegic incident, "oh god how do I even approach this character". Needs more kryptonite or batman.
Sonic usurping the Monkey King's role as forever laughing at you for trying to approach through his wall of spin dash cancel shields and positioning himself as far away from you as possible at all times. HA HA you finally got close, better hit you away and start the process all over again!
Featuring Mario pressing whatever button he wants while in the air just like Wario, with an invincible 10 frame up smash better than the equivalent 10 frame super armor shoulder bash. **** those moves.
Fox reprising his role, except no one can infinite or 0-death grab combo him anymore. WHY NOT!? COME ON. IT'S BEEN THIS WAY IN EVERY OTHER SMASH GAME THUS FAR.
Rosalina spot dodging all balance patch destruction in recent times in light of the dark demonic Bayonetta's attempts to be Ice Climbers, but the position has been re-usurped.

I feel like I'm missing someone
Oh wait, Zero Suit being brawl zero suit without any good ground moves or armor pieces. Wielding the cursed KOing DP that comes with RCO, the bane of our existence.
And Megaman is cool.

And with that horrible attempt at fan faction, the time is now to realise the highishtop tiers are going to be top [very likely] forever more. Time to kill the politics of who deserves what, it's not how things works or ever will. The world isn't fair. But at least the way Smash4 plays out in the future holds more hope and promise than a post-Trump vs Hillary America.

You sir, are a god.

 

[TDK]

Is an overturned swordsman with some grotesque combination of MK's frame date with Ike's range and the best "come at me" option in the game.
is the usual "one-two punch" character of the games: no extensive, flashy, 0-to death combos and instead focuses on hitting you with the same or similar combo over and over until he can kill you.
is the series' usual "destined for greatness" newcomer, evidenced by how she hasn't been nerfed in forever. She's also the "two-in-one fighter", like Ice Climbers but without the 02Ds and instead focuses on using Luma to stop you from hitting her. Lima itself is also insane.
is the usual fast, weak character: she will win 99% of the button wars she enters and can put you to 120+ really quickly but takes forever to actually kill anyone.
is the complex, flashy "I touch you and you die" character that requires a ton of skill to play correctly but the payoff is amazing when you get there, killing at 60% is no joke.
is the hit and run character. Focuses on on-two combos and forcing approaches so he can get said combos.
is the hardest to quantify into a trope. He's got about as much range as a swordsman without the disjoint, but he plays like a zoner and a combo character rolled into one. He also has a surprising amount of tech to him.
is pretty much the "hit buttons to win" character. You hit buttons, and you win most exchanges if you hit the right button.
I know nothing about.
fits the bill of "bait and punish"; you have to respect her because of her ladder combo, because if she gets one hit there is a very good chance she can end your stock.
plays the same way he always did; get in and string together moves.

This correct?

 

[ArikadoSD]

Bayo was never broken at top level which was proven by results but lets not get into that.

Almost every character looks broken when they're up against BOWSER. His hurtbox is massive which means he's insanely easy to juggle, edgeguard, string, etc. He has no gtfo moves in the air and no landing options in general. So yea rosa's rapid jab will look disgusting vs bowser but it's because bowser is a terrible character, not because luma's rapid jab is broken.

Don't be above Rosa if you don't want to get uair'd, also a lot of the time that people die to luma uair they could have DI'd into rosa's uair. It's a move you have to deal with and a defining strength of the character, but just because a character has a standout move doesn't mean it should be nerfed.

Dont get grabbed, dont get faired by sheik, dont get hit by bayo, just DI and SDI, just catch the banana, just dont get hit, just power shield, just adapt

Just dont be above rosa.

 

[UberMadman]

I feel like I should clarify based on the remarks I made last page: no, I don't think is a good character, and he probably is low tier, bottom of mid at best. A lot of his top level wins come from players who don't bother to learn the matchup getting bopped hard by things that they easily had the tools to beat, (sort of like Tyrant's set posted last page, but to be fair, that MU is honestly not that bad for Jr.. Even when MK had the uair combo, Jr. could escape it with armored side-b.) That said, I still find it ridiculous that a lot of the wins he has had have somehow gotten ignored, especially since a lot of the results Tweek achieved with the character were before a lot of the characters that give him bad matchups got heavily nerfed, so he theoretically should be better off than he was before Tweek moved on to Cloud.

And as for , I called him a "top tier" because I put him in the miasma of the best 9-12 or so characters who have the tools to consistently obtain results with minimal secondary support. You can call him a high tier too if top seems like its overselling him a bit, it's just semantics. I do feel like , , and are currently a cut above the rest due to their absolutely dominant matchup spreads with , , , , , , and not far behind, though to be fair I might be overrating Mewtwo a bit. This bunch was what I had in mind when I thought "top tier".

 

[LordShade67]

is the hardest to quantify into a trope. He's got about as much range as a swordsman without the disjoint, but he plays like a zoner and a combo character rolled into one. He also has a surprising amount of tech to him.

Smash 4's Akuma/Gouki. Both are made of glass, both hit like trucks, both have versatile kits, the works. Granted, there are some differences(Akuma tends to lean abit more towards rushdown while Mewtwo more towards zoning.), but yeah.

 

[Trifroze]

Sheik really doesn't have a dominant MU spread. The fact that her neutral is still better than anyone else's doesn't mean she can consistently win neutral because it always comes down to guesses. She can cover options better than others, but she can never cover every option, and when you can't consistently win neutral vs someone who outrewards you hard enough, you lose. She also doesn't have the option to hard punish anything at the level pretty much everyone else can, and she can't overextend at all since the punishment for being read for it is too much for her.

Who does Sheik have a decisively good MU against out of top tier?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Who does Sheik have a decisively good MU against out of top tier?

Cloud!

 

[Ray_Kalm]

We had speclar (puff main) pretty much destroy almost all of the great ganons. Kosk, and Verm being 2 of those ganons. Proving it's not in his favor. Kosk even went to saying "55-45 puff's favor". Proper reactionary playstyle, punishing ganon's lag and solid gimps according to Speclar take the matchup in Puff's favor. No main bias but I still lower it to 50-50, although any other puff would tell you we win. Then some ganons say they win. *sigh* So many opinions. This is why matchup talk is garbage, just play the game. ; )

I played Speclar recently, I seemed to be the only Ganon who did well against him (won majority).

He concluded that I played best against him as compared to @Vermanubis and others, and he agreed with me stating that the MU is 55:45 Ganon's favor (as long as the Ganon plays appropriately).

 

[Mr. Johan]

So I learned last night that Whispy Woods can blow people clean away from the remainder of Cloud's Limit Cross Slash before the final, KOing hit can connect unless Cloud is also in grab range of his opponent.

It got me wondering, how crucial is the stage counterpick in the meta now? With the number of Sheik players decreasing, Smashville would seem like the go-to "neutral" stage, whatever that means these twenty minutes, and with Bayonetta a shell of her former self, T&C seems like a less scary concept.

Are characters "tempered" in such a way now that everyone can start taking sets to stages they're comfortable on? Or are there character-stage combinations that require an instant stage ban 100% of the time?

 

[Das Koopa]

I will likely be counting CEO as a Supermajor. It's broken 700 entrants and has 15/20 top PGRanked players confirmed for attendance, including other huge names (Hyuga, Trela, Zinoto, Mew2King, Pink Fresh, Rain, Nietono, etc.)

It's easily going to be the most stacked tournament since Genesis 3.

 

[Radical Larry]

So Nairo had a live stream today and near the end of it, he said something quite peculiar in that he agrees that Link is a top 30 character in this game, even giving some short explanations that you'd possibly expect. I mean, it's not much to talk about, but it's a neat little thing.

I will likely be counting CEO as a Supermajor. It's broken 700 entrants and has 15/20 top PGRanked players confirmed for attendance, including other huge names (Hyuga, Trela, Zinoto, Mew2King, Pink Fresh, Rain, Nietono, etc.)

It's easily going to be the most stacked tournament since Genesis 3.

Most stacked, but possibly least diverse.
But I kind of predict a Link player will hit around top 32.

Will you count the top 128, Das?

 

[Wintermelon43]

So Nairo had a live stream today and near the end of it, he said something quite peculiar in that he agrees that Link is a top 30 character in this game, even giving some short explanations that you'd possibly expect. I mean, it's not much to talk about, but it's a neat little thing.



Most stacked, but possibly least diverse.
But I kind of predict a Link player will hit around top 32.

Will you count the top 128, Das?

Lol the salt. Same with Mr. R, lol the salt.

Also, are Scizor or Izaw coming? If not, there's almost no chance of a Link hitting top 32

Edit: Especially with the fact that Nairo has a little Toon Link-problem. Perhaps that carries over to Link too?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I will likely be counting CEO as a Supermajor. It's broken 700 entrants and has 15/20 top PGRanked players confirmed for attendance, including other huge names (Hyuga, Trela, Zinoto, Mew2King, Pink Fresh, Rain, Nietono, etc.)

It's easily going to be the most stacked tournament since Genesis 3.

Is supermajor a seperate category from "1" and "2" for your rankings? If so, EVO and Umebura SAT - the two biggest upcoming tournaments - should get the same treatment.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Is supermajor a seperate category from "1" and "2" for your rankings? If so, EVO and Umebura SAT - the two biggest upcoming tournaments - should get the same treatment.

Wait, Is there gonna be any non-japanease players at Umebura SAT? Like how Nairo, Ally, and Vinnie went to Umebura FAT?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's kind of up in the air, I guess.

But the tournament has a 1000 entrants cap that they'll likely hit, all of Japan's top players will be there and it's at the end of august so there's still ample time for people to make their way.

 

[Jamurai]

Quick request: if you state how an uncommon matchup goes, or argue against a common matchup opinion, at least provide some explanation and/or evidence. Otherwise your post is essentially worthless because no one who disagrees will (or should) just take your word for it. Yes, even if you're a top player.

 

[Das Koopa]

Is supermajor a seperate category from "1" and "2" for your rankings? If so, EVO and Umebura SAT - the two biggest upcoming tournaments - should get the same treatment.

Majors are 3rd category (GOML and Pound) and Supermajors are 4th category. EVO is a surefire since it will likely have 2200-3000 entrants by the time registration ends.

SAT's categorization will probably depend on the final entrant number and attendees list. I'd prefer to limit 4th category to tournies that have both an extremely high entrant cap and a large number of top ranked players from around the world. Remember, the point spread for 4th category looks like this

1st: 16
2nd: 15
3rd: 14
4th: 13
5th: 12
7th: 11
9th: 10
13th: 9

...There are 180 points allocated to characters, compare to C1 tournies allocating 52 in total. SAT hits one mark (1000 entrant cap) and while it will have a lot of big-name attendees it still doesn't compare to the combined skill pool CEO or EVO or GENESIS present, imo.

Will you count the top 128, Das?

I'll list it if I have the time but I won't be counting anything out of the top 16 into my model, as per usual

 

[Nairo]

Lol the salt. Same with Mr. R, lol the salt.

Also, are Scizor or Izaw coming? If not, there's almost no chance of a Link hitting top 32

Edit: Especially with the fact that Nairo has a little Toon Link-problem. Perhaps that carries over to Link too?

...HOW IN THE WORLD IS THAT SALT??? SAYING THAT A CHARACTER CAN BE BETTER THAN WHAT SOME PEOPLE THINK? I don't understand that at all lmao. Losing to the best TL once (even though I beat him 3-1 the next time we played) = TL PROBLEM CONFIRMED

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Sheik really doesn't have a dominant MU spread. The fact that her neutral is still better than anyone else's doesn't mean she can consistently win neutral because it always comes down to guesses. She can cover options better than others, but she can never cover every option, and when you can't consistently win neutral vs someone who outrewards you hard enough, you lose. She also doesn't have the option to hard punish anything at the level pretty much everyone else can, and she can't overextend at all since the punishment for being read for it is too much for her.

Who does Sheik have a decisively good MU against out of top tier?

You don't need a dominant MU spread to have a good MU spread. If you lose to less than 4 characters (safe number) and are even with (but mostly beat, but not by much) the rest of the cast, you are a good character. You don't need to be like Brawl MK to be good. Sheik may not destroy everyone, but her MU chart is balanced enough to keep her top tier.

You always seem to be underrating Sheik for some reason. You say a low-risk low-reward character is bad, but then say high-risk high-reward is not good design, so does everyone need to be mid? Sheik is way safer in most parts in the game than any oher character, so she is going to win neutral more, simple as that. If Sheik was as bad as you say, Sheik results wouldve halted.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Majors are 3rd category (GOML and Pound) and Supermajors are 4th category. EVO is a surefire since it will likely have 2200-3000 entrants by the time registration ends.

[...]

...There are 180 points allocated to characters, compare to C1 tournies allocating 52 in total. SAT hits one mark (1000 entrant cap) and while it will have a lot of big-name attendees it still doesn't compare to the combined skill pool CEO or EVO or GENESIS present, imo.

Dude.

You're not actually going to give GOML as much credit as Pound or SAT. Please tell me you aren't.

 

[Greward]

Is it just me or is people starting to talk about Mega Man like if he was a top tier? Lol

 

[Das Koopa]

Dude.

You're not actually going to give GOML as much credit as Pound or SAT. Please tell me you aren't.

Yes? Both Pound and GOML had nearly the same number of entrants and similar skill pools.

can't say for SAT yet since it's months away

 

[bc1910]

Is it just me or is people starting to talk about Mega Man like if he was a top tier? Lol

People getting very ahead of themselves eh?

Just watch and enjoy.

EDIT: Before anyone jumps in to say MM won a major I am aware of the character's recent results.

 

[Trifroze]

You don't need a dominant MU spread to have a good MU spread. If you lose to less than 4 characters (safe number) and are even with (but mostly beat, but not by much) the rest of the cast, you are a good character. You don't need to be like Brawl MK to be good. Sheik may not destroy everyone, but her MU chart is balanced enough to keep her top tier.

You always seem to be underrating Sheik for some reason. You say a low-risk low-reward character is bad, but then say high-risk high-reward is not good design, so does everyone need to be mid? Sheik is way safer in most parts in the game than any oher character, so she is going to win neutral more, simple as that. If Sheik was as bad as you say, Sheik results wouldve halted.

My argument was never that Sheik wasn't really good, my argument was that there's nothing that separates her from the rest of the top characters. I only start pulling the devil's advocate on Sheik whenever someone proposes the idea that she's in a separable >>>SUPER BEST GROUP<<< with Diddy or Cloud or whoever. Even if there's a top tier of 3 characters, Sheik most likely isn't in it. The only ones that have a weaker case for it in my opinion are Mario, Mega Man and maybe sonex.

Meanwhile Diddy and Cloud at the moment do seem like the characters with the most centralizing/overtuned tools and "what the actual ****" -designs, and their recoveries haven't proven to be bad enough to hold them back (Diddy is nowhere near bad and Cloud is better than 50/50 in most situations + limit recovery is common and near infallible). As far as recovery badness scale of top tier goes it's probably: Cloud = Fox > Rosalina = Ryu = Diddy > Mario = Mega Man > hodgehead > Mewtwo = Sheik > ZSS

 

[Radical Larry]

Lol the salt. Same with Mr. R, lol the salt.

Also, are Scizor or Izaw coming? If not, there's almost no chance of a Link hitting top 32

Edit: Especially with the fact that Nairo has a little Toon Link-problem. Perhaps that carries over to Link too?

That or they know some pretty great Link players, have seen the results that other players have been getting, etc.
And hopefully Scizor and Izaw come.

 

[|RK|]

My argument was never that Sheik wasn't really good, my argument was that there's nothing that separates her from the rest of the top characters. I only start pulling the devil's advocate on Sheik whenever someone proposes the idea that she's in a separable >>>SUPER BEST GROUP<<< with Diddy or Cloud or whoever. Even if there's a top tier of 3 characters, Sheik most likely isn't in it. The only ones that have a weaker case for it in my opinion are Mario, Mega Man and maybe sonex.

Meanwhile Diddy and Cloud at the moment do seem like the characters with the most centralizing/overtuned tools and "what the actual ****" -designs, and their recoveries haven't proven to be bad enough to hold them back (Diddy is nowhere near bad and Cloud is better than 50/50 in most situations + limit recovery is common and near infallible). As far as recovery badness scale of top tier goes it's probably: Cloud = Fox > Rosalina = Ryu = Diddy > Mario = Mega Man > hodgehead > Mewtwo = Sheik > ZSS

Doesn't Diddy have way more bad matchups than Cloud? Why do we keep putting Diddy all the way up there?

 

[TheBeggingBard ~~JoMo~~]

Alright boys and girls here's my try at a v1.1 tier list using Smogon tier rankings:

OU:

BL1:

UU:

BL2:

RU:

BL3:

NU:

(Please note that this is my 1st try at one and from my views)
BL= Black List
Bl means that the characters could easily move up or down due to usage by the competitive communities
Give me any suggestions where to move some of the characters.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Alright boys and girls here's my try at a v1.1 tier list using Smogon tier rankings:

OU:

BL1:

UU:

BL2:

RU:

BL3:

NU:

(Please note that this is my 1st try at one and from my views)
BL= Black List
Bl means that the characters could easily move up or down due to usage by the competitive communities
Give me any suggestions where to move some of the characters.

What is Charizard doing up there? Why are Kirby, Toon Link, and Wario so low? Why is Shulk that high? Why is Falco that high!? WHY IS PIKA TOP 2!?

Am I missing something? Is this supposed to be a tier list?

 

[Das Koopa]

Alright boys and girls here's my try at a v1.1 tier list using Smogon tier rankings:

OU:

BL1:

UU:

BL2:

RU:

BL3:

NU:

(Please note that this is my 1st try at one and from my views)
BL= Black List
Bl means that the characters could easily move up or down due to usage by the competitive communities
Give me any suggestions where to move some of the characters.

Man I wish Falco was top 15

 

[arbustopachon]

uh, what is charizard doing above all of those characters.
At this rate zard is gonna be the new roy or something.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Man I wish people could stop paying attention to trollish tier list, discussion gets derailed like this.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Question: What are 's matchups against the high/top tier characters like? Who does he win against, go even with, and lose against? I know that Pikachu is a bit of a landmine here, but I am curious.

 

[bc1910]

Question: What are 's matchups against the high/top tier characters like? Who does he win against, go even with, and lose against? I know that Pikachu is a bit of a landmine here, but I am curious.

No problem asking a good question like this and I'd ignore anyone who tries to anti-Pika you with their response (unfortunately that includes a couple of usually-smart posters).

The general rule of thumb would be to take ESAM's spread and bump everything down by 5 points (except maybe Mario). So Pika is slightly disadvantaged against several top tiers but is probably evenish with characters like ZSS.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

So I learned last night that Whispy Woods can blow people clean away from the remainder of Cloud's Limit Cross Slash before the final, KOing hit can connect unless Cloud is also in grab range of his opponent.

It got me wondering, how crucial is the stage counterpick in the meta now? With the number of Sheik players decreasing, Smashville would seem like the go-to "neutral" stage, whatever that means these twenty minutes, and with Bayonetta a shell of her former self, T&C seems like a less scary concept.

Are characters "tempered" in such a way now that everyone can start taking sets to stages they're comfortable on? Or are there character-stage combinations that require an instant stage ban 100% of the time?

Considering that people still take Sheik to Smashville on their counterpick (including runbacks from game 1), I'm inclined to say that stages matter not one bit right now in most people's minds. For my part I strike/ban it every time without fail because I am sick to death of that stage.

Still wish Umbra Clock Tower became popular.

 

[ARISTOS]

Question: What are 's matchups against the high/top tier characters like? Who does he win against, go even with, and lose against? I know that Pikachu is a bit of a landmine here, but I am curious.

You'll get widely different answers depending on who is answering.

There is a consensus is that Pika loses to and beats

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

No problem asking a good question like this and I'd ignore anyone who tries to anti-Pika you with their response (unfortunately that includes a couple of usually-smart posters).

The general rule of thumb would be to take ESAM's spread and bump everything down by 5 points (except maybe Mario). So Pika is slightly disadvantaged against several top tiers but is probably evenish with characters like ZSS.

lmfao true. And thanks!

Which ones would he have a definite disadvantage with? Since I am also curious about the ratios of said MUs (60:40's and 55:45's).

Cloud probably doesn't care too much about what Pika does (then again that's just Cloud for you in general).