Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Illuminose]

amazing stuff by mr r to reverse 3-0 in grands, looks like leo is committed to the marth switch

 

[Das Koopa]

i'll keep it anyway since it's not sub-80 and has a lot of high-level talent

leo was reverse 3-0'd, infuriating to see him continuously trump when it lost him stage control every time

 

[JustSomeScrub]

Blacktwins (Mario) beats Zinoto (Diddy). Once again a top Diddy loses to Mario. In fact Zinoto gets double eliminated by Mario this tourny.

 

[Das Koopa]

Today was a good Bowser day. Pollo 4th at Prelude and Rayquaza Top 4 with secondary Bowser

 

[juddy96]

I'll post the results from Emerald City once that is done today. But it's another good result for Ryu, Locus has defeated Big D to make winners finals.

Also, the mystery man of Sumabato 11. The man known only as "A"? Well I've confirmed his character.

Spoiler

 

[Das Koopa]

Speaking of Big D

I've noticed as I've cataloged BC and PNW tournies that Big D seems to be using Dedede less. Has he shifted off to Mario/Falcon with Dedede as a pocket, or does he still typically run Dedede?

 

[juddy96]

Speaking of Big D

I've noticed as I've cataloged BC and PNW tournies that Big D seems to be using Dedede less. Has he shifted off to Mario/Falcon with Dedede as a pocket, or does he still typically run Dedede?

The latest BC power rankings (which came out this month) shows him as D3, Mario, Falcon in that order

 

[JustSomeScrub]

Holy crap. Is there a SINGLE Smash 4 player that doesn't play Cloud?

Across 3 different tourny streams today, 80% or more of the matches I've watched have involved Cloud (including Cloud mirrors and secondaries that ended up winning easily). Maybe I'm just tuning in during those times but still.

This is seriously getting out of hand now.

 

[Ninety]

I find it interesting how Leo, a player who by all accounts is on a level with the top US players and also completely serious about winning, seems to have made the full switch from MK to Marth (with the obligatory Cloud secondary). Is he seeing something we don't? I mean, don't get me wrong, I've gone on long arguments on why Marth is pretty good, but seriously-mained-by-top-player good?

 

[JustSomeScrub]

I find it interesting how Leo, a player who by all accounts is on a level with the top US players and also completely serious about winning, seems to have made the full switch from MK to Marth (with the obligatory Cloud secondary). Is he seeing something we don't? I mean, don't get me wrong, I've gone on long arguments on why Marth is pretty good, but seriously-mained-by-top-player good?

This is just speculation but it''s possible his loss to Ally and Zero played a big role. His MK was beaten pretty convincingly and he did much better with Marth (against Ally). So maybe he's thinking why not try going more Marth.

MK seems like one of those characters that's very polarizing. Either he cleanly beats a character or struggles to get in with his limited neutral and loses solidly. So Leo might be thinking the character simply isn't as viable as a solo main.

 

[Mario766]

I'll post the results from Emerald City once that is done today. But it's another good result for Ryu, Locus has defeated Big D to make winners finals.

Also, the mystery man of Sumabato 11. The man known only as "A"? Well I've confirmed his character.

Spoiler

Three Ikes

In a Japanese bracket

NEVER. SEEN.

 

[Das Koopa]

Rayquaza just 3-0'd Ally for a bracket reset at Breakout III

 

[TDK]

Characters that can make it under Dream Land (64):
Max Aura without Pikmin

Characters that might make it:


Characters that can't make it:
with more than 2 Pikmin

Not many characters can make it. This is relatively pointless, but certain characters (MK, Kirby, and Puff come to mind) can go for a timeout.

 

[juddy96]

Three Ikes

In a Japanese bracket

NEVER. SEEN.

4 actually, I forgot to update bracket with another I found last night

 

[Das Koopa]

Puff dreamland stallout = New Meta

 

[Ninety]

Rayquaza just 3-0'd Ally for a bracket reset at Breakout III

Goddamn, is the West picking up Japan's "top player inconsistency" disease?

Who does Rayquaza play again? Rosa?

 

[Das Koopa]

Ally gets mad, switches to Mario, destroys Rayquaza 3-1 in Set 2.

So while there were lots of Pocket Clouds they didn't really work out so well

 

[Das Koopa]

Breakout III (June 18th) (Midwest) (96 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Ally ,
2nd: Rayquaza07 ,
3rd: Seagull Joe
4th: Blacktwins ,
5th: Miloni
5th: Ryuga
7th: Zinoto
7th: LOE1 ,
9th: Zyth ,
9th: GP Linus
9th: AoH Vanity
9th: GG Nom
13th: Adorable Knight
13th: Ge0
13th: FS Chris
13th: Zidico

 

[TDK]

Breakout III (June 18th) (Midwest) (96 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Ally ,
2nd: Rayquaza07 ,
3rd: Seagull Joe
4th: Blacktwins ,
5th: Miloni
5th: Ryuga
7th: Zinoto
7th: LOE1 ,
9th: Zyth ,
9th: GP Linus
9th: AoH Vanity
9th: GG Nom
13th: Adorable Knight
13th: Ge0
13th: FS Chris
13th: Zidico

Someone Page Larry, a Link made top 16. How good is this link player anyways?

 

[PK Gaming]

This clip broke my heart

 

[Game7a1]

Characters that can make it under Dream Land (64):

Characters that can't make it:
with more than 2 Pikmin

I know it's a bit pointless to correct (given it's trivial information), but Luigi (using Green Missile and Max Cyclone), G&W (optional B-reverse Chef and Bucket Stalling), and Charizard (using Flare Biltz) can go under Dream Land.
I am curious as to what your source you did use to create the list.

 

[Lavani]

Characters that can't make it:
with more than 2 Pikmin

can make it for free, doesn't even need upB.
can make it fairly easily.
can make it with a spinshot. Walljumps give a slight margin for error.
can make it with Monado Jump.
can barely make it normally. Walljump gives some room for error.
can barely make it if she does a perfect Tarzan with her tether. Also wouldn't recommend.

 

[Aaron1997]

You3 is saying in the DuckHunt Discord that he might come to TBH6

Also a bonus if your wondering about Ratio vs Brood

 

[juddy96]

You3 is saying in the DuckHunt Discord that he might come to TBH6 View attachment 110365

Also a bonus if your wondering about Ratio vs Brood View attachment 110367

Both SSC and TBH are on Japanese holidays, hence you'll be seeing more Japanese there than at EVO

 

[ARISTOS]

What characters did Rayquaza secondary for?

 

[outfoxd]

Someone Page Larry, a Link made top 16. How good is this link player anyways?

He took a set off one of our PR as he started playing prepatch Sheik. He did ok at one of our big Rebirth regionals too.

He has a gritty camping to frame trap game and lots of balls when he decides to go in. I play a lotta friendlies with him, teamed with him once at Oh Did I Win. Has some footage at the Gooshigaming youtube channel.

 

[TDK]

I know it's a bit pointless to correct (given it's trivial information), but Luigi (using Green Missile and Max Cyclone), G&W (optional B-reverse Chef and Bucket Stalling), and Charizard (using Flare Biltz) can go under Dream Land.
I am curious as to what your source you did use to create the list.

I went and played through every character, so my list is slightly innaccurate, as I don't play some of these characters.

can make it for free, doesn't even need upB.
can make it fairly easily.
can make it with a spinshot. Walljumps give a slight margin for error.
can make it with Monado Jump.
can barely make it with a wallcling on the bottom of the other side but I wouldn't recommend trying.
can barely make it if she does a perfect Tarzan with her tether. Also wouldn't recommend.

Flare Blitz is too laggy to make it.

I'm not Mr. ConCon, so I can't button mash as well as he can.

Rosa and Fox need absolutely perfect angling to make it, Rosa also needs to B-Reverse. Same with Game & Watch

Shulk and Bayo get caught on the under lip barely easily.

I don't play Samus or Sonic, so I don't know how to spinshot or Tarzan that well.

Should I try this again with Battlefied?

 

[juddy96]

Emerald City III (103 entrants) - Seattle, WA

1) Captain L
2) Locus
3) Big D
4) Firefly
5) Shinkou
5) Konga
7) Big Boss
7) Ruff!
9) Felix
9) Jamnt0ast
9) Yope
9) Len
13) FedVsRafa
13) Locke
13) Disorient
13) Tsage

Note: I didn't actually watch this tournament, the characters were based off previous vods and power rankings, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on some characters

 

[Lavani]

Flare Blitz is too laggy to make it.

I'm not Mr. ConCon, so I can't button mash as well as he can.

Rosa and Fox need absolutely perfect angling to make it, Rosa also needs to B-Reverse. Same with Game & Watch

Shulk and Bayo get caught on the under lip barely easily.

It's not. I thought it would be, but I re-tested all of these before posting.

My mashing is garbage, but with garbage mashing upB will still get you the rest of the way. With god mashing that isn't even necessary though.

None of them need B-reversing and none of them even need precise angling. Rosa's recovery is good enough that you can just do an unangled upB and even if it snags on the bottom of the stage a bit you'll still make it no problem, G&W will probably actually shoot above the ledge with his upB, and Dreamland doesn't stick down as far as FD/Battlefield so Fox doesn't even really need to be careful about how he does it.

Bayo kind of does, Shulk doesn't.

 

[Das Koopa]

captain l is probably the #2 Pika main worldwide atm

he needs to go to a major pls

Edit: Jamnt0ast uses R.O.B, from the brief vod glimpse

 

[juddy96]

captain l is probably the #2 Pika main worldwide atm

he needs to go to a major pls

Edit: Jamnt0ast uses R.O.B, from the brief vod glimpse

He went to Paragon and Genesis

 

[TDK]

My mashing is garbage, but with garbage mashing upB will still get you the rest of the way. With god mashing that isn't even necessary though.

Even buffering the Up-B I couldn't do it. I needed the misfire to do it, so I wouldn't reccommend it. Though I'll concede it is possible.

It's not. I thought it would be, but I re-tested all of these before posting.

None of them need B-reversing and none of them even need precise angling. Rosa's recovery is good enough that you can just do an unangled upB and even if it snags on the bottom of the stage a bit you'll still make it no problem, G&W will probably actually shoot above the ledge with his upB, and Dreamland doesn't stick down as far as FD/Battlefield so Fox doesn't even really need to be careful about how he does it.

Rosa actually misses unless you get as far as possible and angle straight up, and even then it's not garunteed. I just end up right beside the ledge, not on it.

How is G&W supposed to even grab the ledge, let alone pop above the stage? I can't get halfway before having to use the Up-B, which doesn't take him to the ledge. You'd probably need to be on point with B-Reverse Chef and Bucket.

Fox actually can make it, my bad. It does take a bit of angling though. you have to get past the lip so you can angle it straight up.

Charizard still can't make it, he's really, really close though, but he doesn't have the jump height.

Sonic doesn't even come close. I can't tarzan with Samus, so I won't try her again.

Shulk can make it, sorry.

Bayo gets stuck on the rim every single time. The side-b can only be used once, and the up-b get you nowhere.

Rosa and Charizard are really, really close. G&W barely makes it halfway. Bayo also can't make it.

 

[DanGR]

Speaking of under-stage shenanigans, something actually useful is Pikachu's ability to stall out some characters via ledge drop-> sideb towards underside of stage-> double jump to bottom, center-> upb to ledge on the side the opponent isn't on. Works on at least ganondorf and maybe peach and a few others. Esam could probably use it to get past the peach matchup if he wanted to.

 

[TDK]

How is Apex going? Who's still in?

 

[Lavani]

This is my last post on the subject, I swear.

Sonic doesn't even come close.

G&W barely makes it halfway. Bayo also can't make it.

These three might not have the most obvious ways to recover, so I wasted some time recording these:

spinshot>upB
bucket>doublejump bucket>upB
sideB>upB>upB>jump


Zard can Flare Blitz immediately after letting go of the ledge and that'll let him recover to the other ledge with some wiggle room to spare. Rosa's just a matter of learning where you'll grab the ledge and where you'll fly past it or get pineappled instead.

Also Ness can just barely make it if he does an airdodge double jump and has an absolutely perfect recovery or bonks off the corner and does a second upB, but...I really wouldn't recommend it.

 

[juddy96]

Smash Bros at Church 6 (108 entrants) - Los Angeles, CA

1) Aphro
2) K9sbruce
3) Charliedaking
4) ImHip
5) Aarvark
5) Rich Brown
7) Not Last
7) Elegant
9) S2H
9) Dynamo
9) Kiraflax
9) Chompy
13) EonWave
13) Ikez
13) LinkedKnight
13) MastaMario

Note: I didn't actually watch this tournament, the characters were based off previous vods and power rankings, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on some characters

 

[Das Koopa]

eonwave used fox, otherwise you're dead on

 

[L9999]

This is a fair assessment, but if he's recovering high Cloud is vulnerable to the blindspot he suffers from down and to his right. You're not guaranteed to hit him per se, but you are at a significant advantage. Again, Cloud being offstage is not a done deal, he's not absolutely 100% screwed, but it is a weakness that should be exploited more.

And then the biggest insult of all. When you hit Cloud out of his 2nd jump (enough so he dies) and Limit activates. So long edgeguard that would result in Cloud's death, goodbye precious lead/clutch win. If I sound salty is because I played friendlies at a local and almost everyone and their cosplaying cats played Cloud and it got obnoxious. At this point I'd rather play against FG Sanic/Rosalina than Cloud. And don't bring up Mario, he is just as obnoxious nowadays.

Smash Bros at Church 6 (108 entrants) - Los Angeles, CA

1) Aphro
2) K9sbruce
3) Charliedaking
4) ImHip
5) Aarvark
5) Rich Brown
7) Not Last
7) Elegant
9) S2H
9) Dynamo
9) Kiraflax
9) Chompy
13) EonWave
13) Ikez
13) LinkedKnight
13) MastaMario

Note: I didn't actually watch this tournament, the characters were based off previous vods and power rankings, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on some characters

Lot of Olimar, and there was DHD, Weegee, Link, Killager (wasn't his meta dead?), and Peach. And, 2 Pits? None of them are Earth? This trend better continues.

 

[TDK]

Is this the weekend of Peach or something?

 

[juddy96]

Is this the weekend of Peach or something?

Possibly.

Kie - 2nd/180 at Sumabato 11
Umeki - 9th/309 at Apex 2016
Meru - 7th/62 at Salty Arena Cup U #1
Big Boss - 7th/103 at Emerald City III
~MuteAce~ - 4th/48 at MDC Tournament (beating Seibrik/DJ Jack)
Not Last - 7th/108 at SBAC 6
Manzano - 13th/85 at Smash Factor Prelude