Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
no no. dtilt is -13 AFTER shield drop.If you can name me more than 2 active notable Pit mains besides Earth I'll give you a cookie. The character can't get much results if nobody notable plays him. It's the same scenario for Ryu isn't it?
When you compare his dtilt to one of the best in the game of course it's going to look terrible. Admittedly its not the best dtilt but it isn't as useless as you think. It works decently with Pit's moveset, it pops them up into the air where he wants them, and it's not hard to catch most character's landings between dash attack, fsmash, side b, etc (for obvious reasons).
-13 ain't that bad if you actually considered the huge range you said it has. Shield drop is 7 frames that means the opponent has 6 frames to try and punish. How many characters have a move that fast and covers the distance of a spaced dtilt? And then take into account how quick it is, how many people can react to punish it in time if possible in a real game? (insert beefysmashdude's video here).
It is safe like dtilt when spaced. Admittedly the disjoint itself isn't that big, but Pit leans out then back in when he uses the move, creating alot of space that few if any characters can punish and even then they have an extremely small window to react to it.. No you wouldn't use fsmash in any situation where you would use ftilt. Ftilt lasts 4 frames, longer than both marth and ike's ftilts. It's great for catching people on the ledge (whether it be the normal getup, jump, etc) safely and is decent poke. Ftilt can also be used to hipcheck as it pushes people in front of Pit. In Dark Pit's case ftilt sets up into a techchase scenario with the electroshock and guarantees a followup on quite a few characters.....god forbid they chose to roll to the ledge. Fsmash is better for catching landings and for punishes it only lasts 2 frames.
I wouldn't trade Pit's dash attack for MK's or his dash grab for Falcons. They all use their tools in their own way. Falcon's dash grab is great and all but it would totally screw me up trying to get a dash grab midrange because of how fast he slides/runs. In falcons case it's great because it lets him get in and get it done. He doesn't have disjoints to play it midrange as well as Pit. MK's dash attack is great but Pit would not get nearly as much out of it as MK. I'd rather keep my disjointed dash attack to deal with say....an opponent landing with an aerial.
Fair, Nair, and Bair are all safe on shield when spaced. Bair being -5, Nair and Fair being -6 when perfectly autocancelled (you need to shff). All of these can be spaced outside of shield grab range. Unless you have a frame 5 disjointed OoS option like say, marth you're not punishing this. In nairs case since it doesn't have much range opponents can generally punish it with a jab or something from shield drop but this is where nair's ability to cross people over while still applying shield pressure until Pit lands is really good. I hope I don't have to explain to you the implications behind these stats.
Pit's arrows don't setup into anything?!? This is just wrong, they work extremly well in forcing airdodges offstage and onstage so that Pit can get a followup, if they do hit an opponent the hitstun allows pit to get followups anyway, they are also extremelt helpful in setting up juggles. And then there are mixups with shooting arrows upwards (which have brawl endlag aka none). Transitioning between arrows and moves is exactly how he keeps up constant pressure. You need to fight some better Pits dude, and stop theorycrafting without a proper base. You know what else is something to think about? Pit's reflector blocks attacks allowing him to safely get back to the ground or ledge (there is more to this but I don't feel the need to explain) and when it shatters it cuts the endlag allowing it to act as a pseudo counter. lol "though Dark Pit's does kill better than Pit's" that is an understatement. the move is filthy.
Pit's multiple jumps and super armoured side b are often more than enough to get him back on stage safely. Are there any moves that will launch him from onstage at a low ennough angle such that he has to use his up B? Not many if any.
So when does Pit have to use his up b? Generally after an edgeguard attempt, successful or not you are in no position to harrass him here. I honestly can't think of any other scenarios.
It's not child play to edgeguard a Pit, you say they are good at edgeguarding and this is directly linked to their good offstage presence, with multiple jumps disjointed aerials a super armoured side b, they have quite a few options. It's only if you somehow manage limit them to their UpB are they vulnerable but how would you do that?
That's because your comparing Pit's tools seperately to the best tools of everyone else, that isn't a fair comparison at all. He's got a decent bit of everything and that's what makes him so solid. If you actually compared him 1 on 1 to certain characters you'll see that they do better than him some areas but worse in others, no character should have the best of everything.
Well you could look at it that way.....I guess.....but I digress. Imo You don't pick a character to learn the game, You learn a character to play the game. But we are delving into abstract stuff here so I'll just leave it as opinions, not gonna say either is wrong or right. Dynamic is the exact word I'd use to describe them, that is their niche, they have no trait they are dominant in, no incredible ability all to themselves, yes I agree with all that but they have a little of everything which makes them versatile. They don't suck vs campy characters, they don't suck vs rush down characters, they don't suck vs spacies they can deal with everyone quite well because they are versatile.
Sure they aren't threatening but they are extremely solid, someone like DK would be threatening but he's not as solid as Pit and that is what makes them good. They don't need to have powerful tools like TSRK or ding dongs or bouncing fish to be good.
Thats horrendous.
Did it ever occur to you that the reason they dont have alot of players is because they arent good?
And yes...you do need powerful tools to be good. Thats how power levels work.
Also as for his arrows, I said he doesnt get guaranteed follow ups which is not wrong. If I let out that important distinction then I apologize.
Also you ended it by admitting they aren't threatening?
My man what are you even debating then if you end by agreeing with me?