Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Das Koopa]

Tyrant defeats VoiD 3-2

 

[LancerStaff]

Is Bayo the best character yet?

Really though, I'm not really feeling the S-tier ranking at this point. She's got a ton of rep and still hasn't got a really notable tournament win. Lots of close calls and near wins, but, well...

Feels more like people are carrying Bayo then the other way around. The anti-Bayo meta is advancing as fast as the Bayo meta is, perhaps just because of the volume of players playing her. Reminds me of Shulk's decent results from good players up until everybody realized he sucked, though I'm sure Bayo's nowhere near that bad.

Edit: Or bad at all. I'm sure somebody would of took that the wrong way without that edit.

 

[Das Koopa]

Trela defeats FOW 3-1.

 

[sedrf]

The power of hate fuels everybody.
Also good job trela

 

[Kofu]

Is Bayo the best character yet?

Really though, I'm not really feeling the S-tier ranking at this point. She's got a ton of rep and still hasn't got a really notable tournament win. Lots of close calls and near wins, but, well...

Feels more like people are carrying Bayo then the other way around. The anti-Bayo meta is advancing as fast as the Bayo meta is, perhaps just because of the volume of players playing her. Reminds me of Shulk's decent results from good players up until everybody realized he sucked, though I'm sure Bayo's nowhere near that bad.

Edit: Or bad at all. I'm sure somebody would of took that the wrong way without that edit.

Bayo's pretty dominating at mid-level which is where the highest number of adamantly pro-ban players are. That's not to say that a lot of high-level players don't think she's stupid too. I don't really keep up with that sort of thing but I know Ally, at least, thinks she's a little too strong. And results don't lie; she's got a very high number of results with such a short time span. But to my knowledge very few of those results are big tournament wins. Counterplay clearly exists to her. It'll take time to see if her optimization will be stronger than smarter, more adaptive players though.

Personally, my main beef with her is how some of her moves blatantly disregard Smash conventions (Witch Twist and Afterburner Kick ignoring weight probably being the biggest one).

 

[sedrf]

pls buff peach.
Anyway fow seems to know the peach mu very well.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Bayo's pretty dominating at mid-level which is where the highest number of adamantly pro-ban players are. That's not to say that a lot of high-level players don't think she's stupid too. I don't really keep up with that sort of thing but I know Ally, at least, thinks she's a little too strong. And results don't lie; she's got a very high number of results with such a short time span. But to my knowledge very few of those results are big tournament wins. Counterplay clearly exists to her. It'll take time to see if her optimization will be stronger than smarter, more adaptive players though.

Personally, my main beef with her is how some of her moves blatantly disregard Smash conventions (Witch Twist and Afterburner Kick ignoring weight probably being the biggest one).

I can see why they made her moves ignore usual Smash conventions. When a character is explicitly designed around air combos in a game where some characters are nigh-impossible to combo due to their physics, something has to give.

The tradeoff, of course, is that now we have a character that defies the usual Smash conventions.

 

[Das Koopa]

VoiD > Xzax 3-1
FOW > SlayerZ 3-0

Winner's Final is Trela vs. Tyrant.

 

[Asdioh]

Wow, I haven't seen Trela play in a long time, but he's way better than I remember. He's really showing that Ryu theory coming into practice. (he just came back from a break, right?)

Meanwhile on the New Fish stream, good matches going on there. Watching Pugwest's Marth is so fun.

 

[Das Koopa]

Trela completed destroys Tyrant 3-0.

Not even close. One of the biggest high-level blowouts I've ever seen.

 

[Ninety]

Goddamn, Trela's Ryu looking like what we all thought Ryu was gonna be when he came out. He's been getting some practice. Six stock on Tyrant.

 

[Kofu]

I can see why they made her moves ignore usual Smash conventions. When a character is explicitly designed around air combos in a game where some characters are nigh-impossible to combo due to their physics, something has to give.

The tradeoff, of course, is that now we have a character that defies the usual Smash conventions.

I understand the logic but at the same time it makes Bayonetta's combos very easy against players with bad DI and makes them far more consistent than they probably should be. She already has more (?) aerial followup and mixup option than any other character between multiple uses of Witch Twist and Afterburner Kick, FAir (which has several parts), the ability to extend the duration of aerials, and Witch Time to deter counterattacks (not to mention Bat Within). Every other character has to adjust their combos to suit the target's fall speed, weight, gravity, and frame size; why not her?

I'm not against special mechanics; I think they're interesting if implemented in a good way. Ryu having command inputs and weak/strong tilts is interesting and spices up his gameplay without making him unnecessarily obnoxious. On the other hand, I would love for Samus to have some sort of implementation of the Morph Ball akin to a crawl, but I can't help but think that it would be a little too strong (not to mention Speed Booster/Shinespark or Space Jump).

I don't really think Witch Twist and ABK working like they do is broken, but I do think it's bad for Bayonetta as a character.

 

[Das Koopa]

This should've been 2GGT: Trela Saga

 

[Emblem Lord]

Metaknight no longer has the tools to fight Ryu. Risk vs reward pretty much always favors Ryu except when MK has Ryu off stage. Besides that its pretty much 60/40 Ryu at all times.

 

[Das Koopa]

FOW up 2-0 on VoiD

As far as I remember VoiD beat FOW pretty definitively at G3, but that's before the nerfs.

 

[Luco]

WHAT EVEN VOID?

VoiD popped off vs FOW and then thought he got the kill, taunted only for FOW to recover and grab him as he finished his taunt and Bthrow.

Can someone oddshot that?

VoiD is doing better now.

Nice reverse 3-0 by VoiD. Hahaha.

 

[DblCrest]

Emblem Lord
Does Trela have Ryu's ground game down? Or does he mix things up for dealing with Metaknight?

 

[KamikazePotato]

VoiD popped off vs FOW and then thought he got the kill, taunted only for FOW to recover and grab him as he finished his taunt and Bthrow.

Ah, the classic Taunt into Get Bodied combo. Glad to see it's still being used at a pro level.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Emblem Lord
Does Trela have Ryu's ground game down? Or does he mix things up for dealing with Metaknight?

I'm not watching the stream. I'm gonna wait till vods so I can break down piece by piece. But if he trashing players as hard as I am hearing, then it sounds like he is getting there.

 

[Das Koopa]

2-2 FOW VoiD

This is intense, VoiD is playing out of his mind

 

[my_T]

Watching FOW try to punish and keep up with sheik in neutral is truly salt inducing. This match-up is so ass

 

[IsmaR]

WHAT EVEN VOID?

VoiD popped off vs FOW and then thought he got the kill, taunted only for FOW to recover and grab him as he finished his taunt and Bthrow.

Can someone oddshot that?

Slowed down frame by frame.

What the **** are magnet hands

 

[Luco]

It's actually a real shame because that's two people I've seen play VoiD who's defensive habits have basically cost them the game. A really similar thing happened to Xzax, his Fox was doing so well when he was on the offensive and once VoiD slowed the game down and got his punishes in Xzax just kinda collapsed. I think if FOW's AD habits hadn't been so questionable he would have won that.

EDIT: Thanks IsmaR you're a god. :D

 

[Ninety]

So grands might well be VoiD on Trela. How's that matchup?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ryu vs Sheik is now either even or only VERY slightly favoring Ryu imo.

But it doesnt matter. The stronger player will prevail.

 

[Das Koopa]

Tyrant pulls out Lime Sheik and bodies VoiD. 2-2 Tyrant VoiD in Loser's Finals.

Edit: VoiD beats Tyrant in Game 5. Both players are 5-5 vs. each other today.

Grand Finals is Trela vs. VoiD!

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Slowed down frame by frame.

What the **** are magnet hands

What I am more surprised by is how fow did not get hit by needles at all despite them clearly touching ness.
EDIT: NVM just realized it was perfect shielded.

 

[Das Koopa]

2GGT Mexico Saga confirmed.

 

[Ninety]

TRELA'S OUR FELLA

 

[Luco]

EL... I think your plan... isn't working...

This is kind of ridiculous, actually.

 

[Das Koopa]

Trela up 2-0 on VoiD muh gawd

 

[Emblem Lord]

EL... I think your plan... isn't working...

This is kind of ridiculous, actually.

I mean...I thought I had more time. I didnt think Trela would tap into it so fast.

****....gotta get ready for these nerfs.

 

[Deleted member]

2GGT: Pink Fresh Saga Top 32 (345 entrants)

1st
Trela

2nd
VoiD

3rd
Tyrant

4th
FOW

5th
SlayerZ
Xzax

7th
K9
Rich Brown

9th
TLTC
Mr. ConCon
Vash
Aphro

13th
Charliedaking
Teb
Elegant
Zenyou

17th
Ryo
ImHip
JK
Pink Fresh
Saiki
Zan
Legit
Z

25th
Jonny Westside
Aarvark
Tearbear
Stroderp
Dynamo
IANB Xero
Stark
Scizor

Yo Das Koopa if I have any wrong characters listed, can you help point them out?

Very exciting tournament today anyhow, some things I want to note:

• Elephant in the room: No s in top 8.
• Two s in top 16. Would've loved to see an upset by ConCon beating VoiD but y'know... matchup things happen.
• First time I've seen Ryo pull out his at a tournament this large. I don't think he has before, somebody can point that out for me if he has. Even if he didn't do very well against Trela this makes me wonder if Ryo will go to continue with pushing the character further.
• getting top 8 is pretty dope. SlayerZ's movement was just outright insane.
• winning a major. Oh my God. gonna signal a rise for this character for sure. Fantastic play from Trela throughout, truly showed how real of a threat this character is. Hope to see more Ryu this year.

I also want to take the tiime to look at the top 32 in terms of character diversity from what I gathered:

Spoiler: 2GGT Fresh Saga: Top 32 Character Diversity

x4
x3
x3
x2
x2
x2
x2
x2
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1

28 characters under one roof, and that's only just the top 32.

 

[Luco]

Trela gets a Dair spike and finishes it 3-1 vs VoiD.

 

[MistressRemilia]

2GGT: Fresh Saga Top 16:

1st: Trela () Undefeated
2nd: VoiD () Lost to Tyrant & Trela
3rd: Tyrant () Lost to Trela & VoiD
4th: FOW () Lost to Trela & VoiD
5th: SlayerZ () Lost to Vash & Fow
5th: Xzax () Lost to MrConcon & VoiD
7th: Rich Brown () DQ'd to losers, lost to SlayerZ
7th: K9sbruce () Lost to Charliedaking & Xzax
9th: MrConcon () Lost to VoiD & Rich Brown
9th: TLTC () Lost to Tyrant & SlayerZ
9th: Vash () Lost to Fow & K9sbruce
9th: Aphro () Lost to Trela & Xzax
13th: Zenyou () Lost to SlayerZ & Xzax
13th: Elegant () Lost to FOW & SlayerZ
13th: Charliedaking () Lost to Aphro & Rich Brown
13th: Teb () Lost to TLTC & K9sbruce

Trela's return is looking pretty good with solid wins.
We may see more Ryu play in the future, if he keeps this up, Ryu may rise back a bit in people's mind.
I'm not going to trash on Trela's victory, if anything that's pretty amazing, but i'd like to remind that throughout the Top 32, Trela didn't have to go through any of the harder Ryu matchups: a surprising lack of Diddy, zoners didn't fight him & fell early on, most being already in losers, good for him though.

Edit: Damn i got Greninja'd.
Ignore this, pretty much.

 

[Das Koopa]

Aphro used Rosalina as a secondary and Aarvark used Villager and not Olimar, you seem spot on otherwise @Feelicks.

 

[Luco]

Also can we talk about how just missed out on a top 8 finish?

With so many strong players in attendance I think that's really, really respectable.

 

[Emblem Lord]

So guys....who has the best punish game now?

Imma just sit here and let yall think it over.

 

[sedrf]

I'm more suprised at making 9th

 

[Charoite]

I think is that title belongs to bayo, ryu is probably second and not too far.